flashed my ap for the second time since i got it. Said my battery was low. I made sure it was fully charged. No my car wont start and it wont go into test mode. WHAT DO I DO? Please help me guys

Try flashing back to stock.

i just did that and it let me. I drove it around, everything seems normal. Now what? How do u tell if the battery has full charge? Should i drive it around for a few minutes, let it sit in place running? I dont want to mess up flashing to stage 2 again.

i havent put the connectors back on to even see if it goes into test mode. Im too scared. I flashed to stage 1 last night with no problem, TBE is on and i want to go to stage 2, but is it ok now?

I put jumper cables on my battery to make sure it had enough juice.

Well if you fry it that is what warenty is for.

i wouldnt thing warranty would cover a fried ecu. But car is running right now, it goes into test mode once again. And the accessport is unmarried

You don't need to keep re-flashing your base map. That is what the realtime map is for. Flash it once, then leave it alone. Just make changes via realtime.

You don't need to keep re-flashing your base map. That is what the realtime map is for. Flash it once, then leave it alone. Just make changes via realtime.

well what about the transmission thing. It was set for an AT and i have a MT. I would think that matters since there is an option for it. I dont really understand too much about the realtime maps, but im gonna read about it right now

so basically to my knowledge, since cobbs site doesnt explain too much, I need to flash the base map stage 2 then i need to flash the real time stage 2 map to have the both running? Is that correct? Or do i flash the base map stage 2 and switch my realtime back and forth between others like valet and antitheft?

If you have a tbe (at least a downpipe) then flash the stage 2 basemap. That will be better than runnning the stage 1 basemap with the stage 2 realtime map over it.

ok, heres what I just recently learned:

BASE MAP: use this for the map you want to use all the time when driving around and whatnot (stage 2, or protune)

REAL TIME MAP: use this for the race maps and stuff. it is a map that is loaded onto the ECU instead of actually reflashing the memory. Think of it as a temporary override for the base map.

this is all done because the ECU can only be reflashed about 100 times

this is all done because the ECU can only be reflashed about 100 times

There is a lot of debate on that point.

You don't need to run the stage 2 realtime map over the basemap. It won't make any difference, you can if you want to, but it won't do anything.

Realtime maps are there to make quick flashes mostly, such as switching to valet mode, economy mode, anti-theft mode, stx legal mode, etc.. Use the basemap for what you want to run as your everyday map.

If you do happen to flash to a different realtime map than your basemap, than you can load your current basemap's realtime map to get you back to the original basemap parameters. Example-- Have stage 2 basemap--> go to valet mode realtime map, decide to go back to stage 2--> flash the stage 2 realtime map or reset ecu.

I know it all is a little confusing. Just remember the basemap will be loaded on the ecu even if power is disconnected, realtime map will go away once power is disconnected.

The 100 reflash limit is really just a safety precaution, I don't believe anyone has ever reflashed there ecu too many times. Only the basemaps affect that imagenary count.

alright cool. But what maps would be used for race? Not really much on cobbs site except stage 1, 2, 2.5, and something about hittin target boost. So im guessin that doesnt apply to me. Im goin to get somethin to eat to make sure the battery is fully charged and im gonna get this thing goin. Will it make a difference if i just flash to base stage 2, or should i also run realtime stage 2 with that? Not really interested in all the other stuff

thanks boundy, ignore the last statement by me. u must have been typin while i was

The 100 reflash limit is really just a safety precaution, I don't believe anyone has ever reflashed there ecu too many times. Only the basemaps affect that imagenary count.


Its NOT A LIMIT. The 100 number is a minimum rating. More than likely, you could flash it 1000 times. There are people on this who are well into the 300+ flashes.

^^^ That is what I was trying to say.

As I understand, unless you are doing some extensive protuning or streettuning as actually chaning basemap parameters, it does not matter what basemap you have...just run the appropriate realtime.

ok, well how does the ecu know what the stock map was if you replace the basemap with stg 2?? I only ask b/c i might have to revert back to stock for dealer visits ;)

How does the ecu know what the stock map was? I dont quite understand from that choice of words but it goes back to stock by you personally flashing a stock map from your AP. It may not be your particular stock map (as there are multiple versions for different years and build dates) but it is "stock".

ok, well how does the ecu know what the stock map was if you replace the basemap with stg 2?? I only ask b/c i might have to revert back to stock for dealer visits ;)

Imagine it this way:

real time is like ram. its not hard written, needs power to remember
base map is like rom. no power needed for tha cd to remember what is written on it.

another anology
real time = vcr clock (back to 12:00)
base map = vcr tape (tape does no lose data regardless of power loss)

Joe

Thats a great way of looking at it, thanks joe. CBoldman, so the ap does have a stock map that i can revert back to incase i need to. Ok that was my question. I didnt know if the stock map was pre-programed into the ap, or it had to download it from the car. Thast good to know that i can always do that if need be. Thanks!!!!

There are people on this who are well into the 300+ flashes.

out of curiousity, who are those people?

Thats a great way of looking at it, thanks joe. CBoldman, so the ap does have a stock map that i can revert back to incase i need to. Ok that was my question. I didnt know if the stock map was pre-programed into the ap, or it had to download it from the car. Thast good to know that i can always do that if need be. Thanks!!!!

I am not sure if you under stood it exactly as i had planned. what ever base map you flash on there is your vcr tape.

for instance, you flash the valet mode as your base. then put the stage 2 real time on top. well for now you are running stage 2 (understand some maps are better for running at a stage 2 level). now lets say you battery dies, without touching your ap, you will be in valet mode again till you put a real time map on it.

Joe

ride 5000: start your own thread in regards to your question. I am sure a search will yeild many results as soem answers have already been given to you on tari and other boards i am sure.

ride 5000: start your own thread in regards to your question. I am sure a search will yeild many results as soem answers have already been given to you on tari and other boards i am sure.

who are you, the thread cop? :lol:

i don't remember you starting this thread, i didn't bring up the flash limit, and i surely didn't ask you any questions.

Prodrive for one is a company that's gone way over 100 flashes in their development with EcuTek. I can't believe you're still harping on the stupid 100 flash limit. Geez!!! I'm starting to see that if Cobb had never published that (legality) statement of the 100 flash limit no one would have anything negative to say about flash type EMs. :rolleyes:

i requested clarification with respect to the details of a general statement.

this is called checking sources, something this entire board would do well to learn.

the limit is there, i assure you. the question is where.

i want to hear from the "people" who are "300+." prodrive is one. any more?

the limit is there, i assure you. the question is where?

I don't think you're going to get an answer for that because the limit can be over 100 or below 100 (if you mess up). I heard that Denso specifies 100 guaranteed flash limit on a properly functioning ECU, but can't vouch for that because not even Denso directly would answer that question. That 100 count does not mean it's a definate 100 or that it's 150 or 500 or etc. It could fail at 101 or could be fine for 500+. I think a new thread for this would be a good idea.

ride5000:

What sources have you checked? where have you looked? I can't vouch that the above information is correct, but i can say Civic is a pretty informed guy. Why is it that you don't accept the answers given to you for a question. If you question the answers, then please provide feedback and SOURCES, not just your oppinion.

i think civic has tried toom any times to help you understand the answer is not a definite and has even encouraged you to believe what you want. He has also answered your question more than once that i know of. What you shoudl be doing is providing examples that prove him wrong since it seems that is what you are bent on doing.

BUT DO IT IN ANOTHER THREAD.

scoobdude--either you know the names of the people who have flashed over 300 times, or you don't.

if you don't, then you have no information i want.

have a nice day.

ride5000:

What you are asking for is anecdotal evidence, which will not really help you at all. Modern flash memory uses the hot carrier effect to obtain non volatile memory. This effect does have longterm affect on the transistors, leading to a defined product life. However, there is a number of gates that will fail right away, and there is a number that will effectively never fail. So flash manufactures put a number of extra bytes on the layout, and a controller to remap bad portions as they come up during the writing process. This controller usually does this surreptitiously, leaving no outside evidence of the redirected address. The quantity of 'extra' storage locations is not necessarily something that anybody knows outside of the flash manufacturer (not always the ECU maker). Somewhere a spec was written for X number of reflashes, and most likely 99% of all ECU's can meet or exceed that spec. However, not necessarily every one. All sorts of issues will affect flash lifetime including, location on the wafer, how the binning was completed, process used to create the flash, and packaging. Good Luck.

lastresort, i appreciate your response.

what makes this (and any) bbs so useful is the free sharing of information. a large portion of that information comes from folks who deliberately push the boundaries of what is thought to be "safe" well into the "impossible" realm. along the way, things get broken. communicating what failed and when and offering a possible reason why is what makes a bbs great.

while what i am asking for could indeed be "anecdotal" in the strictest sense of the word, the same could be said for about 99% of the posts on NASIOC. this does not make the collection of anecdotal evidence/information pointless. on the contrary, it is my belief that there is more "truth" buried in the anecdotal evidence than there is anywhere else... including product datasheets, or page after page of equations and theories.

along those lines, i received one PM from a member i trust stating that he knows first hand of someone with over 100 flashes, and someone else with over 50. this is exactly what i'm talking about.

ride5000

Fair enough, I just wanted to avoid the ever on going saga of "I know a guy who new a guy that......" with the end results being a bad ECU, and you surprised by it. You apparently are well aware of the risks, so post back your results for us in that want to know.

I think you got the "low voltage error" of death message. I burned up 3 ECUs with that one. Safest thing is to hook jumper cables up to another running vehicle when reflashing and you should never get that error again.

So flash manufactures put a number of extra bytes on the layout, and a controller to remap bad portions as they come up during the writing process. This controller usually does this surreptitiously, leaving no outside evidence of the redirected address. The quantity of 'extra' storage locations is not necessarily something that anybody knows outside of the flash manufacturer (not always the ECU maker).
Sounds like you've spent some time working with NAND flash :) Memory repair/redundancy is heavily used in commercial applications. This is not the case in many embedded flash modules for high reliability (ie automotive, military) applications. Most of these systems will generate an error code and attempt to fall back to a failsafe configuration on first detection of a fail.

KGreb:

Nahh, I just went to the University of Idaho, and Micron was "teh big pimp'n" when I was there. A lot of students did summer internships with them and came back thinking they would be RAM or Flash Engineers, so they did reports on the stuff. It worked well, until the bottom dropped out of the memory market and they laid off a ton of the new hires.

in regards to the low voltage error, i got that about a month ago and had about 12.4 volts since the car had recently been run. I then tried to change my base map and got the low message. I later figured out it was due to me not putting the connectors on.

Either way the car would not start. I was freaking out, but i kept trying and it finally turned over. I presented the theory to parker that the ecu should be fine, but its probably the constant turning on and off which runs the fuel pump relay for start up enrichment. hence the engine was slightly flooded.

cliff notes:
make sure connectors are plugged in and if it does not start (cuase you turned the key to teh on position a few times) try to floor it and start it at the same time. (flooring it on start up wil shut off the injectors, this is also a great trick for oil changes)

so basically to my knowledge, since cobbs site doesnt explain too much, I need to flash the base map stage 2 then i need to flash the real time stage 2 map to have the both running? Is that correct? Or do i flash the base map stage 2 and switch my realtime back and forth between others like valet and antitheft?
When you flash the stage 1 or 2... base map, a real time map is flashed too
theres no need to flash the real time stage 2 map