What kind of TMIC do u guys recommend on sti's? I m getting a FP 20G and i dont think i am going to go with a FMIC...just upgrade my tmic...i was thinking spearco...but not sure..or should i go with a fmic? recommendations? thanks

lol which one is it? If your hell bent on keeping the tmic configuration then go with a spearco tmic. If you decide on getting a fmic then go with a perrin or aps dr525 fmic with t-bolt clamps. The 20g is big enough to use a fmic so I say go with a fmic, I like the aps dr525(but I dont think it's available at the moment)

ebay TMIC.

another vote for the Spearco, the one I used was great.

ebay TMIC.+1! Great bang for the buck. No sense spending $900 on a Spearco.

but why not buy one used for $600 and run a proven core. Spearco has a 4 psi less pressure drop over the stock tmic.

We like the TXS TMIC.

SS

i have the perrin Unit...looks good, fit really well, since it's about .5" shallower (from top to bottom) than the others it doesn't rub at all.

Most of the units use similar cores, or even share cores...end tank designs differ though.

I haven't dynoed the car yet, because I got a few more additions, then it's dyno and tune time.

also I paid under $700 new for the perrin TMIC during one of the vendors sales a while back. So, cost wise, it's not killer.

but why not buy one used for $600 and run a proven core. Spearco has a 4 psi less pressure drop over the stock tmic.

Thats just not possible. The stock one only has a 3PSI drop total.
The Spearco has the same drop as teh TXS and Perrin and all the other big bar/plate cores. Which is about .3 PSI (huge improvement over stock)

Another vote for spearco.

Another vote for spearco.

Just curious why you guys are saying spearco over the other bar/plate cores.

because honestly the performance is identical between all of them. So IMHO price should be your main concern.

^^^ true dat. Performance is going to be essenially identical.

SS

Just curious why you guys are saying spearco over the other bar/plate cores.

because honestly the performance is identical between all of them. So IMHO price should be your main concern.


I voted for spearco because thats what I used, But davenow you have a point, Spearco is more expensive, there are def. other TMIC with the same performance gains :disco:

+1 for TXS TMIC. Garret @ World One got me one much less than Spearco TMIC (carries both). For new, I would go that way.

FMIC will give you more power and slower spool. Spool is very important to me, so I stuck with a TMIC. Use what fits your needs accordingly.

$900 on spearco....ooooooooooooooook. Why not get an ebay tmic AND meth/water injection for the same price?? ;) That would take care of just about any other TMIC on the market....and a lot of FMICs for that matter.

but why not buy one used for $600 and run a proven core. Spearco has a 4 psi less pressure drop over the stock tmic.
It's all about pressure drop when looking for a intercooler, at least it is with me. I think spearco is rated at 0.8 psi pressure drop. If peak boost is set at 20psi then for your manifold to see 20 psi the turbo will have to put out 20.8 psi before it hits the tmic. Spearco knows what they are doing when it comes to intercooling so trust the best.

but is a POSSIBLE .1-.2 PSI better pressure drop worth 2-3x the price of other cores...? I guess if you must have the best and money is no issue.

oh btw, I have seen the ebay TMICs sell for around $200 used regularly. In fact I got one for $170!!! I can turn around and sell my stock TMIC for $250 and MAKE money switching to a better intercooler. If you see picture of the ebay TMIC along side a TXS one....they look 100% identical. Even down to the welds.

Spearco worked great on my 20G setup. I picked it up used for $500 and then just cleaned it up and polished it a bit ftw.

And I have seen the ebay units firsthand... they are craptacular and fitment is not good. Not to mention it's like setting a cinderblock on top of the motor; They are that heavy.

If you see picture of the ebay TMIC along side a TXS one....they look 100% identical. Even down to the welds.

Its whats on the inside that counts....

but is a POSSIBLE .1-.2 PSI better pressure drop worth 2-3x the price of other cores...? I guess if you must have the best and money is no issue.

oh btw, I have seen the ebay TMICs sell for around $200 used regularly. In fact I got one for $170!!! I can turn around and sell my stock TMIC for $250 and MAKE money switching to a better intercooler. If you see picture of the ebay TMIC along side a TXS one....they look 100% identical. Even down to the welds.
I think .1-.2 psi drop between tmic's are worth it. The way I look at it the less my turbo has to work to make set boost translates into a bunch of positive affects onto the car. It's good to save money on parts/tuning here and there whenever you can but remember this you don't want to cheap out on a 30k+ car.

Its whats on the inside that counts....

if the exterior fin design is identical....how then could the inside be any different? Its the same manufacturer....just different name. Are you saying its a coincidence they look exactly the same?

reposting for fyi
http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm#Bar%20and%20Plate%20or%20Tube%20 and%20Fin?

aside from the ebay stuff, the best TMIC is the APS, the best bang for the buck (and my personal choice) is the helix tmic

I vote for th Hyperflow. Top notch, even better than APS

MRT. Works well with my Hybrid setup and 20G. Will work even better when the Meth kit is installed and Siegel tunes it.

MRT is manufactured by Hyperflow

Has anyone ever done a TMIC test (tested multiple units on the same car)? I know on srtforums they just did a FMIC test on 4 or 5 units (from the cheap ones to expensive brands) and the initial results were very interesting. The spearco FMIC had the least pressure drop but the worst results (high temps and low HP)Pressure drop should not be the only thing looked at... Real world results are more important

how bout a Helix TMIC from Gruppe-S, $600
they sell the Spearco as well for $869

Just curious why you guys are saying spearco over the other bar/plate cores.

because honestly the performance is identical between all of them. So IMHO price should be your main concern.

he speaks the truth. pickup whatever used bar plate tmic you can get for the cheapest or just run with one of the ebay tmics.

to the guy who said .2-.3 pressure drop difference b/w the bar/plate tmics is worth the price difference of a couple hundred dollars. That is the worst bang for the buck you can possibly get for performance.

but why not buy one used for $600 and run a proven core. Spearco has a 4 psi less pressure drop over the stock tmic.
Wow, the Spearco adds 2-3psi?

There may be several different TMICs on ebay. Lots of people seem to have luck with them, but I would make sure you get one about which someone else has posted positively. Some people have posted that their mounting brackets are way off and they've had to grind it off and just skip the one bolt, or have the bracket rewelded on. You can probably find a few reviews and pictures if you search a bit.

Of course it doesnt add 2-3 psi, are you kidding me....
Im just passing on info that ive heard from credible people, but like everything on this board you have to take this info w/ a grain of salt because there is no cut and dry answer for varying setups.

It's all about pressure drop when looking for a intercooler, at least it is with me. I think spearco is rated at 0.8 psi pressure drop. If peak boost is set at 20psi then for your manifold to see 20 psi the turbo will have to put out 20.8 psi before it hits the tmic. Spearco knows what they are doing when it comes to intercooling so trust the best.

FYI, the hyperflow core on the old TXS TMICs is .3 PSI.

The best my ass.

The hyperflow ICs are the only txs coolers I would own. Hyperflow puts out some nice products.

You could build a low-loss intercooler by leaving out the airfoils on the inside, but then it would cool like crap. Don't get overly stuck on pressure loss. You also want a good efficiency rating.

I doubt you're losing more than 1-2 psi on the stock piece. I believe someone posted logs (it was actually to log temp, but he had pressure as well) and it showed an average of ~1 psi at full boost and high RPM.

MRT. Works well with my Hybrid setup and 20G. Will work even better when the Meth kit is installed and Siegel tunes it.


is this what you have?
I have a hybrid setup and a front mount and Im getting a 20g. How much of a PITA was it to tune and how is heatsoak during driving?
I would sell my FMIC to gain response if the top mount works good.
Sorry for jacking.

opinions?

or should I just keep my TXS FMIC?

FYI, the hyperflow core on the old TXS TMICs is .3 PSI.

The best my ass.
Meh spearco is better. It probably has less pressure drop than what I stated, the 0.8psi was an assumption......

In any case whatever tmic this guy decides to get won't really matter much since all the high quality tmic are about the same. Spearco, helix, hyperflow, perrin........ it's all the same chit since the intercooler is under the hood.

If your looking for cheap, there are three I'm aware of:
SSautochrome (www.ssautochrome.com) offers a 20" x 7.5" x 4" with the connection hoses and a BOV for $400.
The two ebay TMICs are both huge 20" x 8" x 4.5"
X02: $330 comes with connection hoses
Dynasty auto $150, (core only)

I've seen the SSautochrome unit and it is as nice a unit as the TXS Hyperflow. I can't speak for the others, but I'm betting they are fine as well.

I've got the XO2 TMIC, real PITA to make it fit, but the brackets line up perfectly... 715 cubic inch core volume. I gained maybe .5 psi (noticed I was occasionally overboosting, while before I never overboosted.) I highly recommend it. $314 shipped with a new Y-pipe and more than enough silicone tubing to hook everything up.

is this what you have?
I have a hybrid setup and a front mount and Im getting a 20g. How much of a PITA was it to tune and how is heatsoak during driving?
I would sell my FMIC to gain response if the top mount works good.
Sorry for jacking.

opinions?

or should I just keep my TXS FMIC?
Never had a fmic so I can't compare. Heatsoak is not really an issue with a water sprayer. I have a switch in the cabin and also hooked to my Datamonitor that activates at 10psi. Tuning was not an issue, according to Siegel. Perhaps the only limiting factor is running 8.7:1 cr, so I have to limit timing and keep boost at 19psi on pump gas. Oh, full spool (19psi) at 3200-3300rpm in 4th (RA gears) :D

is this what you have?
I have a hybrid setup and a front mount and Im getting a 20g. How much of a PITA was it to tune and how is heatsoak during driving?
I would sell my FMIC to gain response if the top mount works good.
Sorry for jacking.

opinions?or should I just keep my TXS FMIC?


If you really want a responsive car than yeah get the tmic. I recently went from a spearco tmic to a fmic and the difference is definately notable. Its not necessarily turbo lag that I have noticed its the tip in and light throttle response I miss. Accelerating out of tight corners, ect....things of that nature. Im sure that Ill adapt and simply drive around these differences but no matter how great any tune is, you'll never have the instant power a tmic provides.

I'm sorry but a lot of you are just spouting out half-truths. Did it ever occur to you that there is engineering and science that goes behind the development of an intercooler? Manufacturers make intercooler cores with differing designs…some great, some terrible. Just because two intercoolers *look* the same (dimensions, welds, etc) doesn’t mean they are. Bigger is not always better, and I think we know it’s all about efficiency. If someone says one intercooler is better than the other just because it has less pressure drop, they are missing the big picture. Cooling the intake charge is about a compromise with pressure drop. You may have an intercooler that has very little pressure drop but at the same time doesn’t transfer heat well (as ref. in post #27) and vice versa. You know that cooling the charge results in a pressure drop? The goal, of course, is to cool the intake charge with the least amount of pressure drop NOT to minimize pressure drop and maybe cool the charge, too. Ideally, we want the “hot air” to have the least drop in pressure as it flows to the “place where heat is exchanged”. This, of course, is where end tank design is crucial which is another discussion perhaps.

I'm sorry but a lot of you are just spouting out half-truths. Did it ever occur to you that there is engineering and science that goes behind the development of an intercooler? Manufacturers make intercooler cores with differing designs…some great, some terrible. Just because two intercoolers *look* the same (dimensions, welds, etc) doesn’t mean they are. Bigger is not always better, and I think we know it’s all about efficiency. If someone says one intercooler is better than the other just because it has less pressure drop, they are missing the big picture. Cooling the intake charge is about a compromise with pressure drop. You may have an intercooler that has very little pressure drop but at the same time doesn’t transfer heat well (as ref. in post #27) and vice versa. You know that cooling the charge results in a pressure drop? The goal, of course, is to cool the intake charge with the least amount of pressure drop NOT to minimize pressure drop and maybe cool the charge, too. Ideally, we want the “hot air” to have the least drop in pressure as it flows to the “place where heat is exchanged”. This, of course, is where end tank design is crucial which is another discussion perhaps.

while that is very true, and very well said; but what about when another company simply copies the product?

aren't the ebay tmic copies of another? or simply a subtle variation?

I'm sorry but a lot of you are just spouting out half-truths. Did it ever occur to you that there is engineering and science that goes behind the development of an intercooler? Manufacturers make intercooler cores with differing designs…some great, some terrible. Just because two intercoolers *look* the same (dimensions, welds, etc) doesn’t mean they are. Bigger is not always better, and I think we know it’s all about efficiency. If someone says one intercooler is better than the other just because it has less pressure drop, they are missing the big picture. Cooling the intake charge is about a compromise with pressure drop. You may have an intercooler that has very little pressure drop but at the same time doesn’t transfer heat well (as ref. in post #27) and vice versa. You know that cooling the charge results in a pressure drop? The goal, of course, is to cool the intake charge with the least amount of pressure drop NOT to minimize pressure drop and maybe cool the charge, too. Ideally, we want the “hot air” to have the least drop in pressure as it flows to the “place where heat is exchanged”. This, of course, is where end tank design is crucial which is another discussion perhaps.

OK, nice words. Do they apply to any of the TMICs mentioned? Your post makes a fine thoeretical (and slightly obvious) argument but do you have any solid evidence that it holds true for the crop of ICs on the market for our cars?

OK, nice words. Do they apply to any of the TMICs mentioned? Your post makes a fine thoeretical (and slightly obvious) argument but do you have any solid evidence that it holds true for the crop of ICs on the market for our cars?

Why wouldn’t my explanation hold true for the intercoolers offered for our cars? The principles I mentioned are the basis of how intercoolers are supposed to work. It’s called fluid mechanics and heat transfer. Like you said, I was just stating the obvious.

I’m not making any claims that a specific intercooler is better than another. I’m just pointing out that some people are overlooking an intercooler’s main function as if pressure drop is the only thing you should consider.

As far as eBay intercooler being copies of “brand” intercoolers…I have no idea. I think some people have jumped to the conclusion that a particular “copy” is the same as a “brand” as a justification for their purchase…as if it’ll magically perform the same because they say it’s the same but at 1/3 of the price. That maybe very well true but it may not be either. And just because an intercooler was “developed” and produced by a “brand” company doesn’t mean it will perform well either. Furthermore, it might be possible that eBay intercoolers aren’t copies in the true sense and/or actually perform better than “brand” intercoolers.

Of course, only a quantitative test can determine which ones are better. At the end of the day, we all have to weigh the cost vs. utility to determine the best intercooler for our own application…“brand” or “copy”.

^^at the end of the day we have no concrete data comparing the performance, flow, etc of each tmic or even for that matter fmic for our cars.

That is why I think the price of the intercooler matters the most in this case....the difference in performance should be negligible but the difference in price can be extreme.

Okay, seing as there is not a clear winner as far as performance gains, how about the fit? I am looking to upgrade the TMIC on my Sti and I want one that fits properly without a bunch of reworking brackets and such. Anyone car to comment?

now how about a Liquid/Air intercooler instead of a regular air to air TMIC.
I am guessing the price will be prohibitive but gains would approach that of a nice FMIC.

Cheers

Nick

...You know that cooling the charge results in a pressure drop? The goal, of course, is to cool the intake charge with the least amount of pressure drop NOT to minimize pressure drop and maybe cool the charge, too...
Lots of people seam to miss this point.

I like the idea of the PWR round 6X8 water-to-air unit. it's like $1100
I've only seen it once.

We like the TXS TMIC.

SS


I'll second this - I'm very pleased with mine and its mated to a Green :alien:


As far as install - it was simple.. no bending or cutting of anything... took a little patience as its a tight fit but its rather painless to install.

You WILL need the tmic inlets off of a regular WRX tmic however as the STI y-pipe doesn't bolt up and it uses a silicone y-pipe.

where do you get them?^^^

thanks

Meh spearco is better. It probably has less pressure drop than what I stated, the 0.8psi was an assumption......

In any case whatever tmic this guy decides to get won't really matter much since all the high quality tmic are about the same. Spearco, helix, hyperflow, perrin........ it's all the same chit since the intercooler is under the hood.


Ok now you are just talking out your ass. You have NO idea why its better, you just state your opinion, which is based on ABSOLUTELY NO REAL INFORMATION.

Why dont you let the people who actually know a thing or two handle the discussion ok?