I have done several of the mods that I have learned of by visiting this message board. I have done the intake silencer removal and added the k&n filter. I have also done the ECM reset. I am now convinced that the only way to modify your engine(Add HP, Torque, speed,noise etc) is to spend money oncertain parts which are proven to modify your engine. Removing my I/S and adding a K&N and reseting my ECM did nothing for the sound or the performance of my engine as everyone else writes that it does to their's. Point being I think these personal- closed garage mods are Jibberish and wives tales such as reading by candle light will blind you, eating chocolate will give you zits, sitting cross legged will make you bow legged, and removing I/S will boost horse power ,intake, and make your engine sound meaner. Just my opinion.

well... if you removed you intake silencer and you cant hear your turbo more you need to clean out your ears!:lol: :lol: there is NO DOUBT that its more audible, but the HP gains may be mullarky.

Bob

Too bad your opinion has been proved wrong already by dyno sheets.;)

Yea too bad Because dyno sheets/pieces of paper, are God.

I had more then one person comment on the change. From both inside and outside the car.

There is a gain of power...but you can't butt dyno it.

I did it more for the sound...and if anything...try to get more air into the engine. But now I got my CAI...and damn...thats some noise and power :D :p

I am now convinced that the only way to modify your engine(Add HP, Torque, speed,noise etc) is to spend money oncertain parts which are proven to modify your engine.

Well DUH on this...do you really think that you can get your car 50+ hp with ductape, a paper clip and some skittels??? That may work for Maguiver...but here in the real world...we use bigger turbos, exhaust and other goodies :D

Speed costs money...how fast do you want to go?

I added a K&N filter right after break in and I heard a slight increase in noise. I did the silencer removal a few weeks ago and i heard a big difference in intake noise. The engine seems to growl a bit louder to. Performance wise, I couldn't really feel a definite difference with either mod. It seems better, but I could be kidding myself. However, there are dyno charts somewhere that show ~5 hp increase.

Just because you might not be as sensitive to these new noises as others, doesn't mean that they don't exist. Or maybe your car's different then mine and the others who notice a difference. :rolleyes:

dyno sheets?
show me.

a K&N filter is probably like 2, 3hp at best.

hard to measure.
even harder to feel.

Originally posted by fudosan
Yea too bad Because dyno sheets/pieces of paper, are God.

So then what are you saying? You are God? That your butt-dyno is more effective than any real dyno? Get a clue. I trust a dyno sheet more than anyones opinion.

FYI- There was someone on this board who installed a new turbo...thought it was 'much' faster....and took it to the track to only realize it was slower! Butt-dyno's suck.

jmott,

Here's where I saw the dyno runs:
http://www.wrxworld.com/dyno/default.htm

Originally posted by jmott
dyno sheets?
show me.

a K&N filter is probably like 2, 3hp at best.

hard to measure.
even harder to feel.

Do a search, you've been on this board long enough to know how.;) If I remember correctly, it was more like 5-8 hp at the wheels.

I've noticed a 1.5mpg increase in fuel economy with the installation of the K&N. With the removal of the silencer, the spool up begins 300RPM sooner. I doesn't increase peak horsepower, but it will give you a little more down low.

As far as the sounds, its definitely there. Its no atmospheric BOV, but you realy shouldn't be able to miss it. Maybe you should turn the Britney Spears down a little.:eek:

-Pete:lol:

Its extremely difficult to notice a < 1% increase in power.

My personal opinion is that the intake silencer mod isn't worth it even if it adds 2 HP(and that is being generous).

uhh, a k&n panel filter will not gain you 5-8hp on the wheel. A cold air intake maybe, NOT a panel filter. All you are doing is changing one type of filter material to the other. You will probably gain small margin of hp by not using the filter at all, but that is bad for the engine..

Originally posted by fudosan
Point being I think these personal- closed garage mods are Jibberish and wives tales such as removing I/S will boost horse power ,intake, and make your engine sound meaner. Just my opinion.

well, what can I say except that..well.. you're wrong.

Everybody knows that humans are on earth because god intended us to have internal combustion engines. It is the least we can do to make it easier for them to work.

There's really no other way to see it. It is absolute fact that removing any kind of restriction in the intake means the air can flow more easily into your engine. More air means more power. Perhaps if you're deaf or you have your stereo turned up loud you can't hear the difference but it is absolutely there. Perhaps it is too small for YOU to perceive, but I perceived it as have many others. It is there.

Everybody knows that humans are on earth because god intended us to have internal combustion engines.

I thought we were here cause the Earth wanted plastic...didn't know how to make it ... so it made us.

See who spots that one ;)

I think most people do this for the sounds and not for the performance. At least that's why I did it. Any performance increase (as small as it might be) is just a bonus for me. Not everyone likes a noisier car though...I just thought it would be fun to sound closer to my cars in gran turismo :D

the dyno run shows 5hp from silencer removal AND a k&n filter.


perfectly believeable.

and very hard to feel.

I really dont have anything else to add besides my own experience, that i did HEAR the difference...easily. Then again most of the time i drive w/out music, or with the music really low as background to the car's melodious sounds.. :D

Originally posted by jk147
uhh, a k&n panel filter will not gain you 5-8hp on the wheel. A cold air intake maybe, NOT a panel filter.

Guess you didn't click the link to see the dyno sheets for yourself.:rolleyes:

Those were done by I-clubbers, not people out to make money or anything. Why would they lie?

While I'd like to believe the K&N would give me 3+HP, I have real problems with the dyno data that's being referred to here. The "benefit" of the combo of the silencer removal and the filter is being compared to a DIFFERENT WRX's bone stock HP and torque.
Scientifically, that's bogus. I mean, would anyone be shocked if there were a 5hp difference between two stock WRXs?
It's so bogus, it may even be masking a better benefit: We don't even know if the stock tested car may have been putting out more HP than the now -modded car in stock form:rolleyes:

Originally posted by nhluhr
Everybody knows that humans are on earth because god intended us to have internal combustion engines. It is the least we can do to make it easier for them to work.
bwhahahahaha:lol


There's really no other way to see it. It is absolute fact that removing any kind of restriction in the intake means the air can flow more easily into your engine. More air means more power.

That is a LONG way from an absolute fact.
If only it were that easy. While restrictions tend to cost power, removing them doesn't always gain power, at least not everywhere in the RPM band. When was the last time you saw a filter on a thottle body? There is a reason for that. The subtleties that take place in intake and exhaust tuning are very complex and can not be covered by a blanket statment like this.

You have a point...but no intake test can ever be accurate unless the car is in motion anyway.;)

Edit: response to coati's comment.

[stops lurking]

Ok for those of you who think the following equation is true under all circumstances:

more air = more power

You are GREATLY exaggerating how an internal combustion engine works.

First off all, the additional amount of air your engine sees with a K&N panel filter is pretty negligible. You may experience faster spool up, because there is less restriction on the airflow, but that doesn't necessarily mean more horsepower.

Another thing to consider is WHERE the horsepower gains are. There's not a working car to my knowledge with a linear HP curve. Are HP gains on the low end of engine RPM or high end? etc.

But the whole problem with making the above assumption is that more air does not equal more power under real world circumstances. That additional air is completely worthless unless your engine even knows its there.

And how does it know its there?

Sensors that feed a signal to your ECU chip. I would be extremely surprised if the amount of airflow gain from a K&N filter can be accurately registered and computed by the stock ECU chip. Even if you reset it. The stock ECU was not designed to accomodate that level of accuracy. If you want to make an arguement over HP gains with a UniChip - you'd be better off, but I gather that wasn't the point of the thread.

So that additional air does not mean more power. The internal combustion engine can rarely be simplified to a generalized statement like that.

this is what i love about this board.. no one really knows a thing of what they are talking about.. all quoting figures and heresay they READ on the net..

so many different answers about so many different questions..

i personally found the silencer and K&N didnt do alot.. the same car can dyno more than 10 hp different in subsequent runs.. so how the hell can you quatify the gain ?

what people should be looking at is.. not how much HP does this mod give me.. (because HP is irrelevent) but what does thsi mod do to the driving characterisitcs of my car ?.. does it make it more drivable.. does it make it feel better to ME..

a reputable tuner from Aust (Brett Middleton) told me when i was asking his advice on what to do to my car.. that you dont tune for max HP.. you tune for max drivablility.. so who cares what HP gains a mod gives.. he wont quote HP gains.. doesnt sell parts based on how many HP your car will make ( or Kw where i come from).. but rather on what it will do to the driving experience.. and i'd trust that over some hokey Dyno graphs any day.. its less mesasurable.. but to me.. more important..

and lastly.. dont flame.. this is my opinion.. i'm tired of expressing it on here and then getting flamed by a dozen morons for my own opinion..

btw.. if you want to quell the rumors.. and find out real answers.. buy a book called Training WRX.. from www.mrtrally.com.au .. certainly answered every single question I had about my car.. either that.. or subscribe to wrx@yahoogroups.com .. amazing the amount of technical knowledge on that list..

Someone slap on their silencer again...take some MAS readings...then take it off...and do it again...

it would be more accurate to say
more air + more fuel = more power

provided your car can pump the fuel fast enough to keep up with the volume of air...

Hey Adegon.

Didn't you already do the intake silencer/K&N mod?

No my car is 3 weeks old and still bone stock.

I'm of the opinion that the most essential mod - and hence the first mod - to be purchased is the UniChip. While some other mods will certainly give you a nice performance boost with the stock chip, you can never get everything out of them until you upgrade your computer.

The computer is the brain of your car (sad that such a mechanical engineering marvel has been reduced to the storage of electric potential) - every mod you ever do (performance wise) will somehow be routed through the computer.

more air + more fuel = more power

Well I guess you can make generalized statements that hold true :lol:

Intake, exhaust, turbo, intercooler, headers - they're all integral to the first part of that equation. But the second part - the fuel - is dependant on the computer (as well as some other stuff like injectors etc.). So without getting something to accurately control the second part of the equation, the first part (more air) becomes meaningless.

Well, I shouldn't say meaningless - you throw on a big exhaust and you'll certainly see a performance gain with the stock ECU. But it doesn't make any sense to me to perform any mod without better control of the electronic side of things.

So to answer your question, heh, I haven't performed any mods yet because I don't have the money for a new chip :p

Someday...

yeah zeno that's true. All those silly tuners that put the butchdiesel turbos with so much lag that there's no power below 4000 but get like 400 hp up high.. ugh. that's just gross.

I done the silencer mod and K&N Filter just a few days ago. I'm pretty much deaf anyways, and I can hear it! The turbo whistles and if I'm not mistaken starts to build boost a little quicker. The exhaust has a growl like sound to it when I pull out from a stop. Also, it's not "wives tales" it's wise tales. At least in my culture. Anyways, you have to listen over the engine noise to hear the turbo whistle and hear the growling sound, but its definately there. Think about it, if the silencer didn't make the intake sound quiter, then WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY SPEND MONEY ON R&D AND PRODUCTION TO PUT IT THERE!?!? They didn't just make a square "tub" for the air to go in, it's shaped a certain way, so you know there was at least a little R&D going into it. They also had to mold the silencer and install it while building the cars. Would that do that if it didn't make the engine quieter? They are a corporation, if they could save a SINGLE CENT from not installing a plastic jug in 12,000+ cars, then they'd definately do it. I don't know about the power increases of the silencer bottle/resonator bottle, maybe just .5HP, if that. I just wanted to get more air flowing and get a nice intake sound. The K&N helped a noticeable amount too with the intake sound and with HP. It's not as big as running a 50-shot of nitrous or anything, but it is fairly noticeable. You may want to run your car at hard WOT before you get home to do the swap from the stock filter to the K&N so you'll notice the difference more.

Just my .02 cents.

Originally posted by Adegon
[stops lurking]

There's not a working car to my knowledge with a linear HP curve.

Electric cars have a linear HP curve because they have a flat torque curve. They make the same torque at any RPM from 0 on up. :D

J/K... Don't mind me... trolling through.:lol:

did the resonator mod and put in ITG panel. HP gains even if they are there are for the most oart imperceptible, there was an increase in noise however which I noticed ONLY immediately after doing the mods... now after a couple weeks I have grown used to the new sound levels and cant I cant even tell.

No, no I specifically said CAR.

"Electric cars" - why they're merely THETs.

Tree-Huggin Econocrap Transports :lol:

Fudosan, I will agree with you up to a point. 10 people can do a mod and give you 10 different impressions. Are 9 wrong and 1 right? I think each one is giving you their honest answer. I think most people are hoping a mod will help so they have a tendency to think positive and MAY overstate the results. Other people are skeptical, and MAY understate the results.

In my experience, the ol butt dyno does not work. Some people may be very talented and can tell but I can't. After years and years of constantly having my butt dyno proven wrong I base my findings on my computer and actual runs at the track. To be honest, I now find dyno readings very suspect. As one member pointed out, a car did 5 dyno runs on the same dyno during the same day under the same circumstances and had different results every time. Does these mean we should not listen to dyno results? No, we should just not take it as gospel.

I did the itg and silencer removal, can hear the difference but can't tell about hp gains. If we gained 5 hp, this is still very hard to quantify at the track or on a dyno consistently. Is it worth it? Oh yeah, because even if my car is only a half car length faster it is something. And all those little mods can add up in the long run. But yes you are right... the real gains come from unichips, turbo back, turbo, etc. However, these are much more costly and should provide big gains. To be honest, I think you expected too much from these little mods. I still think your car is faster, you just can't feel it. If you want to know for sure. Race someone that runs close to you with and without the mods. That shold provide all the evidence you need. Luckily, I have a computer that tells me what helps and I use it for all my testing. It takes out the human factor and just gives true results. Many times, they are quite surprising. I don't know how many times I have done something only to find it slowed down my car. Also, things that helped that I would not have suspected. After modifying a number of cars, I can guess pretty well what will and will not help and by how much. The silencer removal and panel filter should help about 5 hp. This is not something you can feel but will show up at the track. See for yourself.

Good luck to you,

Greg

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Adegon
[stops lurking]

There's not a working car to my knowledge with a linear HP curve.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This comes pretty close, doesn't it? Linear HP? (http://www.ride-or-die.com/images/Dyno-SLK32_0901_smaller.jpg)

MadManMike
02 Silver SLK32 AMG
02 Silver WRX Wagon

>more air + more fuel = more power

Way too simplistic. Your engine is not a simple classroom science experiment, it's a very complicated system run by a computer - a computer programed by Subaru to run well in stock configuration.

Check out this test (in two parts):
http://www.autospeed.com/A_1054/page1.html
http://www.autospeed.com/A_1064/page1.html

In summary: First they baselined the car on a dyno.
Adding a drop-in filter = slightly better spool up, no increase in peak power.
Adding freer flowing exhaust = no significant increase in peak power.
Adding a bigger intercooler = no significant increase in peak power.
Adding a Unichip = LOTS more power.

The stock computer didn't know what to do with more air.

The only defference that you can notice from the silencer removal is you can here the air being sucked into the engine more then before. Some people like the sound. I personal like steping on the gas and being able to here the air rushing into the turbo.

I have found that removing the silencer makes a drastic difference in acceleration. It will also make your MT shift 1,000 rpm higher, your gas milage go down, and reduce your driving time to work an average of five minutes (except when it makes you get a ticket).:D :D :D :D

I've been running my car a few days more with this mod and have some more observations. I think the turbo may spool up a little quicker, but I'm not sure on that as I only drove the car for 3 weeks until I did the mod so I didn't know for sure how it spooled up before. I do enjoy the louder intake sound with the low "rumble" at WOT in lower RPMs and the turbo whistle is now audible. If you want your engine quiet then don't do this mod, but if you want to get used to turning off your radio to hear the sweet sounds of turbos and flat fours then be my guest :D