I'm posting this for a friend, a fellow NASIOC member actually. His motor blew after 150k miles on his '02 Auto WRX wagon, so he decided to have an EJ257 shortblock swap done at Grupp-S (with a tune as well obviously). Here are the results:

(Mustang Dyno)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a383/Kostamojen/25swapgruppesdyno9aq.jpg

Thats a bloody aweful lot of torque :p I'm curious how it drives now, I drove it before and as a few people here know the WRX with the 4EAT is sluggish from a stop... My parents have a FXT Auto which I get to drive occasionally, and it is not slow at all from a stop.

The torque curve is rather odd, I presume its the result of the Auto tranny, but I don't know that much about this so I'm curious what other people think about the chart...

Is everything else on his car stock? ... Stock exhaust yadda yadda? ... That torque is fantastic, wish the same could be said for the hp ... None the less, it probably drives alot better ...

Well the title says Stock 02 WRX + EJ257 shortblock + tune so i would say its stock except for the shortblock and EM.

He should do a tbe, sti intercooler, vf39 and retune. it would be a beast then.

The heartbreaker dyno strikes again :)

Looks good....lookin at the fact that stock bugeye WRX 5 speeds make about 155-160 whp on this dyno....you won't really pick up a ton with JUST a flash.

That NEEDS a bigger turbo. I never thought I would say that.

the jump in torque could be the torque converter doing it's job, it makes the dyno see it that way because the converter most likely, pretty interesting stuff.

this is domestic car talk, i don't know much about the auto in subarus

Hey all, I thought I'd chime in - the car in question belongs to my brother.


The car is a stock 4EAT, save for the EJ257 shortblock, a catless uppipe, and the dyno tune.

From what my brother told me, the guys at Gruppe-S were having a little trouble with dyno'ing the 4EAT, due to not having full control of the TC lockup (makes me wish we had that TC lockup mod). He did runs in 2nd and 3rd gear to get some good readings.

Supposedly he told my brother that the HP reading is around 20 low, due to the lack of lockup (don't quote me on that, as it's secondhand info).

Regardless, the listed values are at least 30whp over stock (if stock is 155, but that might be a stock MT), from 5750rpm, and it maintains a value above 155 all the way to redline - that is more than good enough for our purposes. Mind you, the car spent 5 years and 150,000 miles with no power mods (and only a rear swaybar) - that should tell you how much we care about power. That turbo is staying in the car till it's done, then (maybe) he'll think about changing it.


Here's to hoping it all lasts. ;)

The heartbreaker dyno strikes again :)

Looks good....lookin at the fact that stock bugeye WRX 5 speeds make about 155-160 whp on this dyno....you won't really pick up a ton with JUST a flash.
screw the hp...look at the torque!! Damn!!

What happened to the motor @ 150k miles? Since it was pretty much stock I'd like to know

Looks like great torque from that extra .5 liters! Congrats

What happened to the motor @ 150k miles?


Looks like a valve in Cylinder 3 melted, broke off, and bounced around the engine. The head was damaged, but machineable. The valve took gouges out of piston 3, and damaged the cylinder walls as well.

Sad really. Up until that second, we hadn't noticed a loss in power, an increase in oil consumption (no oil consuption for that matter), or anything like that. It just went.

That makes two (that I know of) California Bay Area, '02 WRXs, that made the 150k mark only to burn a valve on cylinder 3. :(

I had a intake valve snap off suddenly while cruising on ther interstate. Dont know why it snapped, but it broke clean off the valve stem. I swear the valves are two peices and then welded together. That screwed up one of my EJ22T's that i've had. It beat the hell out of a wiseco piston and screwed up a WRX head so bad that it couldnt be saved. So, im on my 2nd EJ22T now. Everything is good so far.

-Thomas

Damn... that sucks. Makes me scared to keep mine to 150k :eek: Oh well, by then I am sure my car will be in someone elses hands. I wonder if it has to do anything with Cali gas? Probably not but I'm just throwing that out there. Looks like the new block is great... congrats.

Damn... that sucks. Makes me scared to keep mine to 150k :eek: Oh well, by then I am sure my car will be in someone elses hands. I wonder if it has to do anything with Cali gas?

I don't know if it had anything to do with Cali gas, but for whatever reason, my gas mileage always went up by 2-3mpg whenever we filled up in Oregon, Washington, or Canada (comparing all freeway miles to all freeway miles).

Regardless... it might make sense for a compression test to be a part of the 120k or 150k maintenence - maybe it would have shown the valve being stuck or something. Ah well, what can you do. :(

Regardless... it might make sense for a compression test to be a part of the 120k or 150k maintenence - maybe it would have shown the valve being stuck or something. Ah well, what can you do. :(Dropping in the EJ257 w/a tune is a good way to go. :) How's the car feel (butt-dyno) compared to the EJ207 and do you notice that the gas mileage is any different?

Dropping in the EJ257 w/a tune is a good way to go. :) How's the car feel (butt-dyno) compared to the EJ207 and do you notice that the gas mileage is any different?

I haven't driven the car much yet, and not very hard (as we we just finished breaking it in). I could tell before the tune that it pulled harder, it was taking a good deal of finesse to not accelerate quickly.

Most noteable are the times when you're in 4th gear, just coasting, and you come back onto the gas. For instance, before when you slowed down to make a turn at an intersection, then got back on the gas, the car wouldn't have a lot of pull unless you gave it enough gas to unlock the TC. Now, if you give it a bit of gas, it picks right up.

The same thing is true when cruising on the freeway. Say you're doing 65 and you want to speed up to 70 or 75. Before it would take very little gas to get there, but it did so with a very smooth, non-aggressive feel. Now, you definetly feel it, even the little bit of gas is noticable.

My brother made the comment that it feels like you are always a gear lower than selected. Once again, I wish the WRX came with a 5EAT.


As for gas mileage, it's too early to say. When we first bought the wrx, mostly freeway mileage (85-90%) put us at around 22mpg. After several thousand miles, both power and mileage seemed to improve (mpg up to 26-28). Currently, we are looking at around 22mpg mostly freeway (90+%) - hopefully that will get better once when we get more miles on the engine and we switch back to synthetic oil.

Speaking of fuel economy, Riftswrx said that with his TC mod, synth oil, and some other things, he was getting up to 35mpg at 70mph. That makes me envious.

Speaking of fuel economy, Riftswrx said that with his TC mod, synth oil, and some other things, he was getting up to 35mpg at 70mph. That makes me envious.
That is really odd...

How much did the shortblock plus labor run him?

duplicate post

I'm posting this for a friend, a fellow NASIOC member actually. His motor blew after 150k miles on his '02 Auto WRX wagon, so he decided to have an EJ257 shortblock swap done at Grupp-S (with a tune as well obviously). Here are the results:

(Mustang Dyno)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a383/Kostamojen/25swapgruppesdyno9aq.jpg

Thats a bloody aweful lot of torque :p I'm curious how it drives now, I drove it before and as a few people here know the WRX with the 4EAT is sluggish from a stop... My parents have a FXT Auto which I get to drive occasionally, and it is not slow at all from a stop.

The torque curve is rather odd, I presume its the result of the Auto tranny, but I don't know that much about this so I'm curious what other people think about the chart...

The original "Stump Puller" ;)

How much did the shortblock plus labor run him?

The shortblock was $1700, brand new, from Subaru
The work was $1500 through Gruppe-S (www.gruppe-s.com)

The shortblock was $1700, brand new, from Subaru
The work was $1500 through Gruppe-S (www.gruppe-s.com)
Wow! I'm definately gonna go that route when my block bites the dust!

The shortblock was $1700, brand new, from Subaru
The work was $1500 through Gruppe-S (www.gruppe-s.com)

Did your brother use stock injectors too? I'm looking to get a new block since I broke it, and I've been debating whether I should just get a new 2.0 block and not worry about any issues, or go with the 2.5L. I don't quite have the money right now to get the larger turbo, injects, etc. Are there any reliability issues with doing this?

Which headgaskets did you use?

Does it still have the original turbo with 150k on it?

Did your brother use stock injectors too? I'm looking to get a new block since I broke it, and I've been debating whether I should just get a new 2.0 block and not worry about any issues, or go with the 2.5L. I don't quite have the money right now to get the larger turbo, injects, etc. Are there any reliability issues with doing this?
Yes, stock/original injectors. They said they were fine and weren't being taxed badly by the stock turbo. I think they said they could get the 2.0 block for $1300 or $1500 new... that is part of the reason he went with the 2.5. Also, we were stuck paying $1500 in labor regardless.

I should point out the total cost was a bit over $5000.

$1500 labor
$1700 New EJ257 shortblock
$134 OEM Water Pump
$163 OEM Oil Pump
$160 Power Enterprises Super Timing Belt
$125 Cometic 51mm (is this a typo???) thickness Head Gasket
$165 ARP Head Studs
$10 NGK BKR7E Copper Spark Plugs (1 step colder)
0$ Uppipe install (we supplied the pipe)
$500 Repair/Machine heads (out-sourced)

The oil pump and water pump only had 50,000 miles on them, and could have been reused on the new block. The Timing belt also had 50k or so on it. We decided to change them all now vs changing them in another 50k (when the timing belt would need to come out).

I belive the studs and head gaskets needed to be replaced. Also, I believe the reflash was needed for the car to be reliable. It also gave us an opportunity to have a custom tune.

The headwork, unfortunetly, required more work than we thought it would need before we got the engine apart. I think they estimated/guessed it would take $200-300, but it came out higher.



Which headgaskets did you use?
The documentation says "Cometic Head Gasket for EJ257, 51mm thickness". Again, I think that's a typo, right? The Gruppe-S website says "0.040 thickness".

Does it still have the original turbo with 150k on it?
Yes, it does. I don't know how long it'll last, but we'll keep running it till it's done.

Thanks alot for the info. I dunno if I'll need a new water/oil pump and to repair my heads though since the engine only had 42k before it broke, so I think things might be a bit cheaper for me. I kindof leaning towards the 2.5L since now I know I can keep everything else pretty much stock (with an engine tune).

I was quoted about $1500 for the 2.0L block too, so for only $200 more, I think I'd rather have the 2.5L. It's just that if I ever want to upgrade something powerwise, I'd have to get another engine tune to take advantage of it, which can get expensive. I hope there isn't any long term reliability issues though with going with the 2.5L engine.

I hope there isn't any long term reliability issues though with going with the 2.5L engine.

You and me both. ;)

What about smogging? Will it pass smog?

What about smogging? Will it pass smog?

I'll let you know in 2008. :confused:

Visually, it looks stock. As for emissions wise... I'm hoping there aren't any problems. I assume the cats in the exhaust will still take care of keeping the emissions clean.

What about smogging? Will it pass smog?
As far as I know, they only way for a smog shop to tell there is a difference is to see the EJ25 number where EJ20 should be on the block... Otherwise, the emissions equipment is the same, and the ECU will read fine... It should pass fine.

Except in his case, he replaced the uppipe. Don't know how good shops are at detecting a relatively hidden mod like this one, but if it were me I'd be sure to run do a "test" emissions run first or go to a trusted shop because if they find something like this, I believe it will get reported to the state and you will have to go through the emissions referee process which is NOT fun.

Except in his case, he replaced the uppipe. Don't know how good shops are at detecting a relatively hidden mod like this one

I'm not sure about this either, but I have to admit, when I look at the uppipe now, I can't tell that it's changed. This Bosal uppipe seems pretty similar to the OEM one. The only thing is that it's missing the EGT sensor.

Except in his case, he replaced the uppipe. Don't know how good shops are at detecting a relatively hidden mod like this one, but if it were me I'd be sure to run do a "test" emissions run first or go to a trusted shop because if they find something like this, I believe it will get reported to the state and you will have to go through the emissions referee process which is NOT fun.
Nobody who has tested with an uppipe has failed. It is impossible to tell unless you know subaru's extremely well and actually get under the car and find it if the heatshield is still there, and doesnt show up on the emissions.

Plus, the fact that the STI and the 06+ cars no longer have an uppipe cat makes a reasonable thing to do anyway.

Yep, the Bosal is very tough to distinguish from stock to the average smog tech. No doubt, the uppipe cat affects warmed up emissions very little if at all. But technically it's still illegal here in CA so I would still be cautious when getting your smog check.

Thanks alot for all the information guys. I think I'm going to go with the 2.5L (with stock turbo, etc) for my swap instead of getting a new 2.0L block. I suppose later on I could always get a new turbo when mine goes out (along with all the other stuff to go with it). I'm going to have a gutted stock uppipe put in mine, so that'll be hard for a smog tech to find out. I'll let you know how everything goes when it's done.

$125 Cometic 51mm (is this a typo???) thickness Head Gasket

what, you don't think it's 5 cm thick?

;)

this dyno chart is a thing of beauty.

Looks like a valve in Cylinder 3 melted, broke off, and bounced around the engine. The head was damaged, but machineable. The valve took gouges out of piston 3, and damaged the cylinder walls as well.

Sad really. Up until that second, we hadn't noticed a loss in power, an increase in oil consumption (no oil consuption for that matter), or anything like that. It just went.

That makes two (that I know of) California Bay Area, '02 WRXs, that made the 150k mark only to burn a valve on cylinder 3. :(

I have 144k miles and I now have low compression in cylinder 3. Car is a stock '02 WRX. No oil consumption too. I am guessing a burnt valve. Weird trend starting here....

I am also wanting to do the 2.5L swap.

-Chad

I have 144k miles and I now have low compression in cylinder 3. Car is a stock '02 WRX. No oil consumption too. I am guessing a burnt valve. Weird trend starting here....

I am also wanting to do the 2.5L swap.

-Chad

Maybe we should start a thread for cars that are stock or close to it that are exhibiting this problem. It's one thing if the cars are modded and heavily raced, but we put mostly freeway miles on the car.

Anyway, you might want to have it dealt with sooner rather than later. In our case, the valve went fully and messed up the shortblock. In your case your shortblock might still be in good working order.