Been thinking of switching to save my wideband. This doesn't pertain to PPG, but I figure most that could help would see it here plus it's not another "what power will it make thread" :rolleyes:

Should I be able to run the same power as now with or without tuning? I might even do a little mixing with the 110 leaded. Would that be ok? Only reason I would mix is price. I called today and VP109 is 400 + 90 shipping for 54 gals :eek: That's $9 a gallon! I'm probably better off just keeping a backup WB and saving money on the gas (I get Sunoco for $5 per gal.), but wanted to hear others thoughts. FYI my wideband is the Hydra which is very pricey. Thanks all.

What is the motor rating of the sunoco 110? I believe the VP 109 is a motor rating of 104 or 105 if I recall. I was thinking of getting the VP 109 but yea, it's super expensive. I am getting 55 gallons of the Sunoco 104 from a shop next to my work who has an account with them. Came out to $275 for a 55 gallon drum. I heard this gas won't make a ton of power but for the price and compared to 91 octane I think I will be pretty happy with the results ;)

What is the motor rating of the sunoco 110? I believe the VP 109 is a motor rating of 104 or 105 if I recall. I was thinking of getting the VP 109 but yea, it's super expensive. I am getting 55 gallons of the Sunoco 104 from a shop next to my work who has an account with them. Came out to $275 for a 55 gallon drum. I heard this gas won't make a ton of power but for the price and compared to 91 octane I think I will be pretty happy with the results ;)

That Sunoco GT+ is good stuff Dan!

Mike

That Sunoco GT+ is good stuff Dan!

Mike

Haha, VP 0wnz j00.

Oh wait, maybe I should sound like some more nasiocers and say "Where is your data"????

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Just playing.

You can't just go by the octane rating. There are other things (like spec. gravity) that will affect how the gas burns. This mayt or may not affect how your tune will react to the change. Really the only way to know is to fill it up and start drving with some logs.

check this out too

http://www.martiniracing.com.au/html/fuels110.htm

check this out too

http://www.martiniracing.com.au/html/fuels110.htm

I bet that stuff is cheap. Add olives and vermouth and you get 116 octane

I have a 55gal drum of vp109 and am down to about 15-20gal. The stuff works great, other than the pain in the ass it is to get the screw lid off. Is there a special tool to take the screw top off as I've been stripping it for some time now?

Is there a special tool to take the screw top off as I've been stripping it for some time now?
I have the same drum @ work..i use some channel lock pliers.

The thing to do is to check the Specific gravity of the fuels. The octane only plays one part.

From experience I dont like 110 Sunoco. It produces less power then C16 when tuned. VP 109 is much less then both. But if using on the street as a buffer then its best. Dont try to run unleaded fuel on a map tuned for that 110 however.

Clark

^^^If we don't have access to C16, is Sunoco 110 or 112 leaded the next best choice?? I can get the 110/112 pretty easy but don't know where to get C16.

Sunoco 110 works great in my Subaru, Mustang, and 400EX.

^^^If we don't have access to C16, is Sunoco 110 or 112 leaded the next best choice?? I can get the 110/112 pretty easy but don't know where to get C16.

Purvis Brothers - ;)

All you had to do was ask. It's about 40 minutes or so north of pittsburgh. I plan on grabbing 15 gallons there to start the season.

Justin

(there may be something closer, just email the VP rep and they will tell you where to go)

^^^Duh, why didn't I think of that. Found out there is a motorcycle shop about 3 miles from my place that stocks it. $65 for the 5 gallon container :eek:

Might just stick to the Sunoco 112 leaded for $4.30 a gallon.

Anyone know where I can find the specs on shell race gas? Buyracegas.com sells it and sunoco. Racegas.com has specs for Sunoco and of course vpracingfuels.com has specs for vp. I'd like to know more about the shell.

I just found this http://www.smithtex.com/racing/fuelcomp.html
Most of the spec grav appears similar, but the differences in MON and RON are huge in some cases.

Anyone know where I can find the specs on shell race gas? Buyracegas.com sells it and sunoco. Racegas.com has specs for Sunoco and of course vpracingfuels.com has specs for vp. I'd like to know more about the shell.

The stuff you bought at the shell station in GA was actually Sunoco 110 Turbo Blue, FYI :alien:

The stuff you bought at the shell station in GA was actually Sunoco 110 Turbo Blue, FYI :alien:

Do I know you? :banana:

I bet that stuff is cheap. Add olives and vermouth and you get 116 octane

have a read of some of the pdf's, they did a back to back test with C16 vs the 110 and gained 18 whp with no tuning, then gained another 30whp+ with tuning :huh:

Apparently the martini is much higher density .840 (.733 for C16) and 3.5% oxygenate (C16 nil).

have a read of some of the pdf's, they did a back to back test with C16 vs the 110 and gained 18 whp with no tuning, then gained another 30whp+ with tuning :huh:

Apparently the martini is much higher density .840 (.733 for C16) and 3.5% oxygenate (C16 nil).


With the 110 OVER the C16?

have a read of some of the pdf's, they did a back to back test with C16 vs the 110 and gained 18 whp with no tuning, then gained another 30whp+ with tuning :huh:

Apparently the martini is much higher density .840 (.733 for C16) and 3.5% oxygenate (C16 nil).

this may be a stupid comment, but don't some clubs have rules against oxygenates, I am trying to remember if SCCA has something against it....

I'll have to go look.

J

http://www.martiniracing.com.au/Documents/Mazda%20Turbo%20498%20hp.doc

their fuel is oxygenated which gives it a distinct advantage over others, including c16.

My question is how would you tune for the extra o2 when their is no way for the ECU to meter it?

http://www.martiniracing.com.au/Documents/Mazda%20Turbo%20498%20hp.doc

their fuel is oxygenated which gives it a distinct advantage over others, including c16.

My question is how would you tune for the extra o2 when their is no way for the ECU to meter it?

Just target a different A/F just like with tuning alchy or something else that changes the best target...

you just have to believe the extra o2 is there, lol :D

Can you get Martini 110 in the US?

http://www.martiniracing.com.au/Documents/Mazda%20Turbo%20498%20hp.doc

their fuel is oxygenated which gives it a distinct advantage over others, including c16.

My question is how would you tune for the extra o2 when their is no way for the ECU to meter it?

Just because it doesn't show up on the MAF doesn't mean you can't measure the O2 - that's what an O2 sensor does. As for it being a "distinct advantage", well, that depends on the engine. If you can get enough O2 into the cylinder without resorting to adding an O compound (MTBE, anyone?) to the fuel, you'll get the same effect. A huge number of fuels sold in the US are already oxygenated by law, particularly in the winter, to help emissions. It leans out the mix. People in general complain about them, because their cars have to apply power-sapping correction to handle the leaner-than-expected mixtures without det. They do this by pulling timing from their global correction maps. Ask anyone who has tuned a UTEC (or anything else with a static parameter map) up north in summer and winter - you practically need 2 completely different pump-gas maps, and you definitely lose heaps of power.

Gasoline won't burn without oxygen. The more oxygen you can squeeze into a given space, the more gasoline you can burn. If you injected high-pressure O2 directly into your cylinders with the fuel (and could tune for it), you could add fuel until you balanced the O2, right?

Wait... Is that why all of these cars are turbocharged? Air IS ~19% oxygen, after all. :) In general I would say it is cheaper and more fun to go with a bigger turbo. If you really want to go out there, run H2O or alky injection on top of unleaded race gas (I had really good luck with VP performance unleaded, though I certainly burned through a grand of C16 in a year before). You worry that you might run out of water? Well, you have that same problem with highly expensive race fuels. Plus, if you go unleaded+alky or water, you have an alky/water system just sitting there for daily use or to make long highway cruises CHEAP (tune it up, and you can run 87 just like it was 93). As an added bonus, you won't be pumping tetraethyl lead into the atmosphere and groundwater.

Of course, if you are a professional racer, ignore this. If you are trying to scratch out the last hint of power from your car, run the good stuff, bolt in nos/alky/plutonium/Mr. Fusion and let it all hang out.

Where did I start?

-Sean

Where did I start?

-Sean

hey, you're still alive!

j'espère que vous aimez la france, et s'amusant.

Of all the fuels I've used (I've lived all over the world), no other compares to VP C16. Consistency is where it's at. ;)

55 gal drum 'round these parts is roughly $500.

S.