I bought an 02 WRX about four months ago and other than the radiator spewing a leak it has been a good fun car, but whenever I start it in the morning to go to school it has some pretty heavy rattling that sounds like rod noise. It gets better as it warms up but it never completely goes away. Any ideas anyone? Also I have heard about the timing belt tensioner, but I haven't checked it. Ohh yeah the car has around 54,000 miles on it. Thanks

Is the car stock or reasonably close? If so you should be able to get it taken care of under the 5/60 powertrain warranty.

Travis, you may get more views if you post this in the 2.0 section. Maybe a mod will move it for you.

Have you tried to start it up and pop the hood to actively search out the rattle by listening? I had the same issue of rattling for a while and realized it was a intercooler pipe rattling in my fender well. Drove me nuts for while.

mine knocks in the cold... but then goes away once it warms.

any modifications on the car?

Jamie http://www.subiegal.com/subiegal-smilie.png (http://www.subiegal.com/)

The car is stock to my knowledge, well other than the poor attempt at putting on an aftermarket downpipe. I have popped the hood and looked for it and it sounds like its coming from inside the engine on the driver's side. I talked to the Service manager of a Subaru dealer and he said that it was probably the timing belt tensioner, but it's just seems to loud to be that. It's less noticeable whenever it's running at operating temperature, but when it's cold it sounds pretty bad. Plus I don't know what the previous owners have done to this car. They may have run the livving hell out of it. Ohh by the way I'm the third owner.

Better let that dealer look at it then, you have 6K left on the warranty.

the tensioners can be horribly loud but they ususally only knock for a few seconds(at least from my experience), sounds like you may have excessive piston slap unforunately :(

Who knows. I'll have someone look at it before to long. Thank you everyone for your input. :)

these cars are a little louder than most in cold start conditions. . .what kind of oil are you using?

Lol well I'm using 15-40. I don't know if thinner oil will help or make it worse. When I got it it had 10-30 in it and it made the same noise. So I'm not sure if its the oil.

15-40 is too heavy an oil, refer to the manual for recommended viscosities and stick with that. 10W30 is within the proper viscosity range as recommended by Subaru.

Lol well I'm using 15-40. I don't know if thinner oil will help or make it worse. When I got it it had 10-30 in it and it made the same noise. So I'm not sure if its the oil.
:huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:

jesus no wonder that thing knocks. It's not a diesel man it needs thinner oil

I use 0w 40 and mine runs very quiet at start up...these are turbo cars and they run hot and where I live we get cold winters

...well just for the record I live where it nearly stays at 75 to 80 in the winter, and in the summer you can fry an egg on the hood of your car. I do suppose though that I should look into a thinner oil. I'll check the manual tonight and see what it recomends.

5w-30, 10w-30

choose one

....timing belt tensioner....get it replaced ;)

5w-30, 10w-30

choose one


....w 0 w....another one.... :rolleyes:

15-40 is too heavy an oil, refer to the manual for recommended viscosities and stick with that. 10W30 is within the proper viscosity range as recommended by Subaru.


....so is 15-40

....w 0 w....another one.... :rolleyes:

yeah whatever

I'll check the manual tonight and see what it recomends.

My answer is essentially what the manual says.

unless you want to count the "desert areas with high temperatures"

yeah whatever



My answer is essentially what the manual says.


......NO it is NOT.


....and those oil 'recomendations' are for STOCK power.....any mods for more power throw those right out the window.

...or d0000dn't ya think of THAT :rolleyes:

......NO it is NOT.


....and those oil 'recomendations' are for STOCK power.....any mods for more power throw those right out the window.

...or d0000dn't ya think of THAT :rolleyes:

Look at your manual again.

The car is stock to my knowledge, well other than the poor attempt at putting on an aftermarket downpipe.

So if his car is stock to the best of his knowledge and the manual says to use an oil range for a stock motor.

..or d00000dn't ya read that part correctly? :rolleyes:

You might want to reread his post.

Or else I'm mistaken and he's asking for oils that will be fine for his motor in a modded condition. Of which there is NO mention, but you keep on insisting exists. Or did you want to change your argument further?

http://i1.tinypic.com/ojeath.jpg

unless you want to count the "desert areas with high temperatures"

that's been covered....already.

Read a few posts up.

I bought an 02 WRX about four months ago and other than the radiator spewing a leak it has been a good fun car, but whenever I start it in the morning to go to school it has some pretty heavy rattling that sounds like rod noise. It gets better as it warms up but it never completely goes away. Any ideas anyone? Also I have heard about the timing belt tensioner, but I haven't checked it. Ohh yeah the car has around 54,000 miles on it. Thanks

hey man, my wagn does the same thing. (pass.side closest to the turbo) it's not that loud "yet", but i noticed it around 66k. (73k now) what ur describing is not the timing belt tensioner, i also had issues with that. believe me, you'll know that if you hear it!:eek: i took it to the dealership at 69k (while it was still under warranty) and let it set overnight so they could hear it when it was nice and cold the next morning. i was there bright and early to point it out to them. they told me that it sounded normal to them. i told both of them 2 different times that it sounded like a rod bearing going bad. they just said it sounds ok to them. oh, and he also said keep your oil changed every 3k.(well no $h!t :rolleyes: ) i checked the oil before i took it in there and there were tiny, tiny shavings in the oil also. the guy at the dealership said some shavings are normal due to friction. :furious: man...i was pissed. they know somthing was wrong with it. they noted in the file that we (my wifee and i) brought it in due to engine noise/knocking so that if anything were to happen to it shortly after the warranty died soa "might" be able to help us out. but there was no guarantee of that. :rolleyes: so...what do you do? give her hell til she blows i guess :devil:
later
brad

that's been covered....already.

Read a few posts up.


"....or for other heavy duty applications...."

how do you make the letters all big and pretty like that? :devil:

seriously.

I changed the oil today from the 15-40 to 10-30 and it maid it helluva lot louder. I think its safe to say that it's a rod coming loose. CURSE YOU PREVIOUS OWNER'S!!!!! :mad: I have an appointment to take it to the dealer Fri. I'm hoping and praying that they'll say that something is wrong with it. THEY DAMN WELL BETTER!!!!

"....or for other heavy duty applications...."

1) stock motor
2) i don't see anywhere stating that he's gonna haul a 5 ton caterpiller

I changed the oil today from the 15-40 to 10-30 and it maid it helluva lot louder. I think its safe to say that it's a rod coming loose. CURSE YOU PREVIOUS OWNER'S!!!!! :mad: I have an appointment to take it to the dealer Fri. I'm hoping and praying that they'll say that something is wrong with it. THEY DAMN WELL BETTER!!!!

that really sux. i hope you get it all fixed and settled without too much pain.

So do I. I hope that they'll say that something is wrong. The biggest problem is is that most of the time their so called "mechanics" don't know anything about the internals of the engine. Most of the time, but not always, but anyway I just hope that they'll say something about it. :mad: THEY BETTER!!!

do you hear a milder version of the same rattle when its warmed up.
I think I hear a rattle when I get on the gas.

I'm not sure what to think.

Let us know if the mechanic pulls his head out of the sand and says a loud clicking noise is normal. Some is expected with these engines, I understand that but how loud is acceptable.

:confused:

I've noticed mine is a lot louder here lately, I kept rolling the window down and listening to it today and even popped the hood....very nerve wrecking. :( I just got my oil changed, hope they didn't F anything up. I also keep getting a lot of exhaust out the back when I'm sitting at a red light. hmmm

Just got it back from the shop a couple of days ago. The Jerks said they coudln't hear anything, but I know for a fact that there's a noise that shouldn't be there. Ohh well that was from the so called "mechanics" too. I'll figure out something though. Thank you everybody for your replies. :)

wait, is is always a clicking/knocking at the same frequency, regardless of rpms?

wait, is is always a clicking/knocking at the same frequency, regardless of rpms?

I would like to hear what you are about to say for your above statement...

I would like to hear what you are about to say for your above statement...

well, since others may be interested..

the boost control solenoid starts cycling at anything over ~3% throttle. basically anything off idle.

in the cold the rubber bushings that isolate the solenoid from the chassis of the car get harder and conduct more acoustic energy as it cycles. this is heard in the cabin as a clicking/tapping/rapping/etc sound.

since the frequency of cycling is electronically determined by the ecu (and is fixed at some 15Hz or so) it will not change in relation to engine rpms.

it should stop at 0% throttle however.

another way to isolate mechanical/electronic noise is to get the car rolling and just turn off the ignition, keeping off the clutch and staying in gear. the car will decelerate just as if you had lifted off the throttle, but there will be no electronic circuits active. here any noises still present are without a doubt mechanical in nature.

when you're ready to start the car again, just turn the key back to ign. and it will fire itself back up.

Who knows. I haven't tried that but if you play with the throttle you can hear it through a pretty broad spectrum of the rpm range. Also, when it's cold and you accelerate SLOWLY you can hear it hammer like hell. Cold being around 40-50 degrees.

I am getting my '04 checked out for the same thing tomorrow. I left it at the dealer so that it will be nice and cold in the morning.

I realize that our engines tend to piston slap before they are warm, but mine has gotten worse in the last 10K miles (59,XXX total). I am hoping that they will tell me that it is a timing belt tensioner...and it will be replaced., but we'll see.

Lately, mine has been knocking for about 15 minutes...or about 5-10 minutes after the temp gauge reads normal. You'd swear it was the big end of a rod or something. Mine is the worst under very light engine loads, and at RPMS less that 3,000.

It runs great otherwise. I run M1 5W30 and can not detect any oil burn off between my 5,000mile oil changes. Most of my miles are commuting though. I would expect more burn off if the pistons were really that loose in the bores...but maybe I am wrong.

My dealership has been pretty good in the past, and I trust them for the most part. We'll see if they find anything. They seemd surprized to learn that it lasts for about 15 minutes....guess that is longer than what they are used too (manager is familiar with the piston slap issues).

I swear the way this thing sounds, I was running a diesel car instead of gas. If I had heard this in my old honda...I would have ripped the oil pan off by now to check the big ends of the rods. The only reason I have waited is that everyone says subies tend to be a little noisy when cold.

Oh, and BTW, I have owend the car since new. It was broken in to 7K miles with dino oil and then has seen M1 5W30 since then. I rarly ever take it to redline...normally it sees highway cruising. I only ring it out to redline about once per tank becuase I think it is good for it once in a while. Otherwise, I might take it to 6K rpms a handful of times per tank. In other words, the car has never been abused...

I have the exact same symptoms on my car, with about 44K miles. Bad rattling for about 10 mins, worse under partial throttle at low revs. Goes 99% away when engine is fully warmed. Drivetrain is 100% stock. Oil changes every 3K. M1 5w30 since about 20K.

Is piston slap a degenerative condition?

answer the door then,

Well, My car is going in for a serious look on the 27th. They heard the noise, and decided that they should look in to it some more. They'll check the timing belt tensioner first and if that doesn't fix it there is talk of pulling the motor to yank the heads and have a look. They feel confident that it is not a bearing since it goes away mostly when warm, and I agree.

I am praying that it is a bad timing belt tensioner as I don't want them to have to get in to the engine, but it may come to that.

I wasn't worried when it was a 5 minute warm up thing..but now it goes for 10-15 minutes.


I will keep you posted and hopefully have an explaination and possibly some photos if they have to yeank the heads and pistons.

leecea- You explaination of the symptoms is spot on with mine....hopefully I will have some answers soon. Might take till the first of April though.

Sweet. After this thread I am def. switching to 15-40 atleast. I would like to know what the Uncle used to run in his 2.0L before he increased displacement.

I have the same problem, and I started to run amsoil 10-30 synthetic. From what I have been told, the amsoil has a detergent in it, and will help clean the sh** that builds up. and eventually will help the lifter function better.

Now I was surprised to hear that crap builds up, because I change between 2000-2500 miles. So my oil doesn't ever get very dark. But the real problem is that I run regular oil, which breaks down much faster. Take it or Leave, its been working for me, the noise has gotten much better.

V

Update:

Dealer is leaning to excesive piston slap as the cause since the sound is louder under light load than with no load. However, they have not eliminated the TBT as the cause.

I asked what would happen, worst case scenerio if the timing belt tensioer didn't fix it...

Dealer says that if there is any detectable damage to the cylinder bore, I get a new short block.

If there is no detectable damage to the bore and the dimensions are in spec, They will install slightly oversized pistons after honing the cylinders. I don't really like the sound of this since it sounds like only the affected cylinders will get new/larger pistons. Seems to me that this might cause an inbalance in the engine....but maybe they will weight match the new pistons to the old ones...dunno.

Oh man, I have the exact same problem with my 04' wrx. Clicking noises near the driver's side best heard under low rpms, nil at idle. I hope its not piston slap or whatever. I better get it looked at before warranty runs out...

There are multiple folks here with a noise problem, but that doesn't mean that these noises are caused by the same thing or things. Maybe a stethescope could be of help here. I used one frequently on a Quad Cam Camry which tended to eat alternators.

ok guys, if you have excessive piston slap, you will notice it when you 1st start ur car up. it dont have to be cold outside for you to hear it. start the car and dont let it warm up. turn off the radio, heater/ac, roll all the windows up, and anything else that makes excessive noise turn it off. listen to ur car idling and as easy as you can (the throttles are sensitive) push on the gas. try to keep it under 1k rpm. if its piston slap you will hear it. just barely push on the gas if you listen close you can still hear it through the rpm range. the boxers normal noise drowns it out, but believe me, its still there. after it warms up, do the same thing (wit the throttle) it wont be as noticable because when the pistons warm up they "expand" so to speak, there for taking some of the "slap" noise away. mine has been doing it for awhile and on occasion i do run it to about 6k. never to redline. i will drive it til she goes. but when she does go i will tear it down and whatever i find i will let soa know that their $hitty mechanics dont have a clue. and i will cause one helluva ruckus at the dealership. :devil:

yeah dont worry so much about it. my 96 GT did the same thing (LOUD clicking until warm, sounded like a damn diesel half the time etc) when I got it at 111k miles. 70k later it still did it. I autoxed and did hillclimbs and generaly beat the thing. Redline at least once per trip, on the average. I still talk to the new owner and he reports the thing is still kicking.

I have a 04 TS with over 90K miles on it.
In the cold the engine clicks and makes some not so pleasant sounds. I really don't know what piston slap or knocking sounds like on a boxer engine. From what I've read on suby forums the boxer engine is unusually loud until it warms up.
I notice that the sound is sort of there even after hours of driving, mostly under light loads or when the engine is winding down from throttle (when it nears under 2K rpm it makes a little sound).

I'm under the impression this sound is generally normal for a boxer style engine in very cold temperatures. I do need a tune up and that will be getting done soon. I'm hoping the sounds go away a bit after that. If they don't then I'm going to consider it normal operational sounds for a H style engine and call it a day, unless it gets REALLY bad.

Update again:

Now that I have my car back for the weekend, I just put it up on ramps and took the drivers side timing belt cover and belly pan off. I started it up and used a long screwdriver to do the "stethiscope" trick to pinpoint the knock. Guess what....the drivers side bank is slapping like hell. Even when fairly warm it does it. Last time I talked to the dealer, they said that the most common pistons to be bad are 2 and 4..in other words, the right side. So, I hope to hell they are bad enough to have damaged the block so that I can get a new shortblock.

Here are the areas I check with the Screwdriver stethiscope....

Block, just above and to the drivers side of the crank pulley. There may have been a faint clatter there...nothing much at all. Therefore I don't think it is the timing belt tensioner. Timing belt was running nice and true, no slapping (I had the cover off to look).

Intake maniofold, drivers side (just above TGVs). Number 2 (front) is really loud when you rev it slightly. Number 4 (back) pretty darn loud too.

Intake manifold, passenger side (just above TGVs). Nice and quiet on both runners.

Block drivers side near the coolant plug (under car). Pretty decent clatter here...but I couldn't rev it being underneath, so it wasn't too loud.

Block passenger side near coolant plug (under car). Nice and silent...so the two sides definityly sound different.

Head drivers side (under car). Just as loud or louder than the adjacent block.

Head passenger side (under car). Fairly quiet, typical solid lifter noise.


So.....Pretty sure they will have to pull the engine and either replace the drivers side bank or get me a new shortblock. The thing that really convinces me that I have a problem is the difference in the noises from the drivers side vs. passenger side. The passenger side is actually very quiet...more so than I would have thought. The drivers side has the clack-clack-clack-clack sound that you can hear from inside the cabin. Same frequency...same tone...very dieselish (is that a word).


Man... am sooo glad that I have a decent dealership that will actualy take the time to investigate rather than saying "Nope, sounds fine to us." Mayube if I can get enough evidence, some of you other people can take this thread and info to your dealer and make them do something about it.