For all you racers or track drivers:

At what intervals are you seeing coilover failure?

1.25 events with professional driver, 1 event with amateur driver, mixed bag of drag racing. Total use about 10-12K miles.

What’s failing or needs servicing at regular intervals?

Outer inverted strut bushings worn out

How often do you need to rebuild?

?

What brand are you using?

JIC Custom

What type of racing?

Time Attack, Track Day, Drag

Performance level of your car? (HP, race tires, high spring rates, etc)

450-550 whp, Hoosier RS304, Toyo RA1, 800 lbs/700 lbs

Thanks for your input!

Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Car currently: Mazda RX8

At what intervals are you seeing coilover failure?
Only once in 2002 with DMS 40s on my wrx.

What’s failing?
Strut was having stiction problems. Shaft getting stuck in/on the casing.

How often do you need to rebuild?
Never rebuilded them since it would have cost too much and should have been covered under warranty.

What brand are you using?
Now? Koni. Have also used DMS, Tein, KYB

What type of racing?
Auto-x

Performance level of your car?
Stock levels. Just shocks with r-compounds.

2003 Solo-II STX National Class Winner. 2003 ProSolo STX National Champion on above WRX with Tein RAs

I clarified it a little thanks for your reply.

This also does not have to be related to Subarus exclusively. Any vehicle used for competition I'm interested in hearing about.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

At what intervals are you seeing coilover failure?

- not intervals, due to heavy abuse (large jumps)

What’s failing?

- nothing is "failing" they are beeing damaged due to external forces

How often do you need to rebuild?

- not "need" we regrease at a minimum after every race, rebuilds occur when neccessary, not on a regular basis.

What brand are you using?

- DMS 50mm and 60mm

What type of racing?

- Stage Rally

Performance level of your car? (HP, race tires, high spring rates, etc)

North American Championship winning GroupN, Rally America Champion GrpN, Canadian Champion Open and GroupN. DMS rock the party.

At what intervals are you seeing coilover failure?

What’s failing?


nothing is failing


How often do you need to rebuild?


we have yet to fully "rebuild" a set. But for the last two season, our post season routine is to replace the external seals.


What brand are you using?


DMS 50mm tarmac


What type of racing?


Road Race, USTCC, 7 events and 7 test days a year.


Performance level of your car? (HP, race tires, high spring rates, etc)


USTCC spec WRX, ~220 wheel hp, rates anywhere from 550-750, USTCC spec hankook 211

Hope this helps

Chris Lock

Thank you, your input is very helpful.

I'm just getting a grasp on what fails and to avoid failures at what point should component X be serviced. While I have an excellent grasp on powertrain components I don't have my head wrapped around suspension components just yet. I know when I was racing MX it was common to replace fork seals, dust seals, slider bushings, and oil half way through the season.

The reason I asked the above questions is that Gary Sheehan at last year’s Time Attack mentioned that the car had difficulty holding its line down the straights under power. I just assumed he wasn’t used to the power as I had just driven that morning and it was tracking as straight as a 500 whp car could. When the car was shipped back to the east coast after Time Attack, sure enough the car was all over the place….similar in feel to massive torque steer. Initially I thought maybe the wheel bearings had worn out again but they were replaced just before Time Attack. We put the car up in the air and sure enough we could rock the wheel back and forth about ½ inch in on the top and ½ out on the bottom. Ultimately I discovered the outer bushings or seals on the JICs inverted strut had failed or worn out on our coilovers.

The struts were used for about 1.25 Time Attacks, 1 track day, a good amount of drag racing, totaling maybe 10-12K miles. Would you say given the extreme use of this car, servicing the outer bushings this often is normal or abnormal?

Thanks,
Phil
http://www.elementtuning.com

Our JICs lasted one season of autocross. One of the rears blew out entirely, dumped it's fluid all over our garage, and the other started to leak after our second event of last year. The fronts had exactly what you described, with the car jacked you could literally see the strut flex and the wheel could easily be rocked. We kept the fronts on for almost half the season last year because we were working through issues on our new fronts so they were on the car for 1.5 seasons of autocross.

Car is daily driven ~15,000 miles on them if I had to guess, had FLT-A2-RSs with 8k/10k with helper springs front and rear. All that said except for the blowing out part I was very happy with our JICs and they didn't drive and ride like all the other JICs I've seen.

We now run a set of Koni DAs built into stock housings. No troubles so far with them.

I was about to say JICs are your first problem talk to phil, but he just posted :)

Tein RA's
36,000+ miles
100+ autox's (most with two drivers)
4 track days

never had a problem. no need for service.

STX setup with high spring rates.

Tein RA's
30,000+ miles daily driven
30+/- auto-x, auto-x test & tune, 1/8 mile drag (only one in the last 8 months :( )
450# springs/STX+ power levels
Tires - 032R (medium + soft)
...in the last 6 months damping degradation is obvious sub 30 MPH. High-speed damping remains incredible. For optimal performance I would have rebuilt at about 24-26,000 mi. At this point bigger fish to fry...

The reason I asked the above questions is that Gary Sheehan at last year’s Time Attack mentioned that the car had difficulty holding its line down the straights under power. I just assumed he wasn’t used to the power as I had just driven that morning and it was tracking as straight as a 500 whp car could. When the car was shipped back to the east coast after Time Attack, sure enough the car was all over the place….similar in feel to massive torque steer.

The moral of the story....ALWAYS trust your driver! ;)

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com

The moral of the story....ALWAYS trust your driver! ;)

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com

:lol: I was learning slow and steady but now I'm on an accelerated curve. I will listen to my driver, I will listen to my driver, I will listen to my driver, I will listen to my driver, I will listen to my driver, I will listen to my driver :lol:

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Thanks again for the input.

I'm not a JIC hater and in fact I was very impressed with the performance and ride of the custom valved units. But for the record we are having custom suspension developed specifically for our car and this data goes a long way into increasing durability or at least identifying service intervals.

I would like to hear more info so keep the data coming please.

I also update my first post to give you and idea of how our car is used.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

:lol:

Yea, JICs kinda suck. Their longevity as well as their damping curves.
edit: custom valving is different then their OTS stuff

For me
At what intervals are you seeing coilover failure?
Never had a coilover/shock failure

What’s failing?
Nothing

How often do you need to rebuild?
Got a revalve about 25K miles into the life of the shock (right before I started using them)

What brand are you using?
Tein HA

What type of racing?
Auto-x/Time Trials

Performance level of your car?
STX prep

Took a 25+K miles used set of HAs and revalved them for better rebound and higher springrates. Ran One Lap of America, and 2 years of STX competition, winning the Solo2 STX National Championship (50+ autoxes) + some street drivng. Probably 40K miles (after the initial 25K) + all the competition and not a single bit of failure or problems. After that, they came off of my car and went on Steven Rankins 98 RS, which finished 4th last year without touching the shocks. Probably saw another 5-10K miles and lots of events on his car. Now they are on a 3RD! car still w/o failure.

The T2 race car will either have a Tein or Koni suspension. Still not 100% decided but leaning towards Koni because of their awesome service and people (Lee Grimes, etc)

-Tom
Koni/Tein for life

What brand are you using? JIC custom

At what intervals are you seeing coilover failure? No failure yet. ~25K street miles, ~30 autocross events. I bought these secondhand.

What's failing? The only failure I've had is that one of the lower brackets was bent when they pulled it off the original owner's car. He ordered a new one before putting them on my car. edit: Oh yeah, the adjusters stick sometimes, and the stickers that identify the dampers are pretty much illegible :)

What type of racing? Autox (possibly a track day or two by the previous owner)

Performance level of your car? (HP, race tires, high spring rates, etc)
~200 whp (lowly stage 2), Falken Azenis, 9k/10k springs, standard autocross suspension mods

At some point I'll be putting helper springs on to make the street ride better. I hope they last til the end of the season :)

edit: update. The coilovers have 30K, ~50 autocrosses and they were still damping like when I bought them. I am getting them rebuilt as preventive maintainance since I wanted a revalve anyway. Go JIC!

john

Anyone want to buy a nice set of JICs with custom RS valving that doesn't suck...but needing a complete rebuild? They are sitting in my basement gathering dust so they'd go cheap.

Anyone want to buy a nice set of JICs with custom RS valving that doesn't suck...but needing a complete rebuild? They are sitting in my basement gathering dust so they'd go cheap.

Unfortunately, you're going to have sell those really cheap as JIC wants $180 per strut to rebuild mine :eek: So at this rate if we plan to run 3 Time Attack events this year, each would cost $720 as I would have to rebuild the struts after each event :lol:

So far what I'm gathering is that my service requirements seem extreme with the JIC coilovers. While our car is definitely more extreme than most, Brian Lock is getting over 10 times the life out of his DMS units under competition use.

Phil
www.elementtuning.com

At what intervals are you seeing coilover failure?
I have seen failure on fatiqued mounts...blown seals...Stiction issues...and valving problems...at various stages of a suspensions life..from brand new 3 days old to 4-5 years old..

What’s failing or needs servicing at regular intervals?

Seals...spring perches...sperical bearings...and springs..(Yes springs are a wear item)

How often do you need to rebuild?
Probably at least once year to be safe maybe twice depending on how much action the car is seeing..or has an off.....if they are dedicated for the track...maybe once every 2 years for a daily driver/ occasional track car..depending on how hard the car was driven...maybe earlier..

What brand are you using?
I have Personally used...LEDA, TEIN and Megan Racing...Customers I have had have used TEIN, Cusco, JIC, ZEAL, MEGAN Racing, Koni, Progress group, and Ohlins...

What type of racing?

Track Days, AutoX, HPDE

Performance level of your car? (HP, race tires, high spring rates, etc)

Various...My personal car is 320HP 360 Torque, on Kumho 710's..Spring rates I personally am using...10k's

Thanks for your input!
Your welcome...

Bill

At what intervals are you seeing coilover failure?
No failure yet.

What’s failing or needs servicing at regular intervals?
Valving becomes less than optimal, though I've yet to rebuild. Still acceptable.

How often do you need to rebuild?
So far, never. However that mostly depends on one's level of competition. Fighting to be top dog in your class and need that extra tenth of a second and you'll want a rebuild sooner. For those not as good, rebuilds come slower. YMMV.

What brand are you using?
I have used JIC and two sets of Tein HAs. One set being Hoppe's old set (post revalve) and the other being my current set which needs a revalve.

What type of racing?
Autox

Performance level of your car? (HP, race tires, high spring rates, etc)
STX level. 235whp roughly. Have used: 8k/10k, 10k/12k, and currently 8k/8k

I first ran with JICs and wasn't terribly impressed. Then I ran Tom's old Teins and those got reassigned to Rankins' 2000 RS (not 1998 :p ). They are now on another 2000 RS and doing just fine. The set I have now was used before Steven got them back in 2003 or 2004. Untold numbers of miles; probably well past 50k at this point and the valving is tired for the highway, thus a bit less than optimal. They still do what's necessary for local events and really I don't think it would be too slow to run reasonably well for Solo2 Nationals. Had it on track last fall at CMP and it did quite well with an experienced track driver (aka Rankins;) 3rd fastest time of the day on the worst tires in the world combined with the worst alignment in the world. Only things faster were a modified 350Z on race tires and a Z06 on race tires.

I'm a Tein fan as they hold up quite admirably for double-duty vehicles such as my own. I wouldn't hesitate to rock a set of Konis either and had I the budget that is likely what I'd roll on. :)

-Biggly

At what intervals are you seeing coilover failure? My stock struts blew after 5yrs of street use and one race. springs still good

What’s failing or needs servicing at regular intervals? top mounts, never sevciced, just switched out for another shock

What’s failing or needs servicing at regular intervals? just need to see what wrong after you do your tech check

How often do you need to rebuild? never rebuilt. with my new ones i'm not sure havn't abused them yet.

What brand are you using? Now, i just put in the tein hg, before just using stock subaru shocks from the JY

Performance level of your car? 200 hp

I would also like to know the problems that the Tein HG's have experienced just so i know what to look for in the future... so far i'm pleased with the adjustability of them..