I have read several threads on the two, and I know this always seems to start a pi##ing match between the owners, but I would like your advice, and not bash one or the other. I NEED some EM, and while I am rather new to tuning, but I do love to get my hands dirty working on my car, and I like understanding things about my car. It seems though that people are making the UTEC to be a little difficult to use, and the AP is bassically idiot proof. So what do you guys suggest for a guy that likes to work on his car, but doesn't know much about the car just yet, but is anxious to learn. I am at a loss :confused: . Please let me know what you guys think. (hose charged and ready to go to pu out all the flames!!! :devil: )

utec if you have a good tuner and want to go hardcore in the long run!
ap if you want mild tune.
utec for me!
u can get your money back if you sell ur car:)

Personally, I had a UTEC because I wanted to tune the car myself. Hated the interface - found it clunky and unintuitive. Went to the AP + StreeTuner and am quite happy.

Yeah I think I might go with the AP+ST. I saw the actual unit for the AP and it looks great to me. I was scared of that 100 reflash limit, but someone explained it to me that it's only if you completely reflash the ecu, and not for switching between maps. Thanks

Many people will choose the AP+ST over UTEC because of ease of use since it has a intuitive GUI. However UTEC allows much more freedom in my opinion and it can be moved from car to car. UTEC has many 3rd party support such as UTI (Utec Tuning Interface) and UTI-ME (ME is Map Editor) which adds a GUI based tuning tools so you don't need to use old school Hyper Teriminal Interface. Plus the author NavyBlueSubaru is constantly updating UTI and is very open to suggestions. There is also MPS Logger, UtecEdit, Data Log Lab and the lists goes on.

AP+ST is just too restrictive for big gains without going to a ProTuner. If you want to go big power later on the UTEC is the choice. I mean the fastest STi Big Valley used UTEC for some time and ran 10sec passes (Gadiel recently changed to Hydra).

The choice is up to you...

I cant see how anyone that finds the UTEC hard to use, could possibly handle the ST :lol:
The UTEC is ridiculously easy.

I'm going throught the same thought process as well. I have not decided which EM to use but I do know that I want the ability to tune the engine myself. That of course leaves Utec and AP/ST. Does anyone know if the AP/ST supports knock control like that of Utec?? Or other "safe guarding" mechanisms?? Maintaining "corrective" action support IMO is very important when thinking about EM.

utec does seem like the way i really want to go, but im just noty sure, AP looks good too

It depends on your final goal. Both can be dyno tuned. The one nice thing about the Cobb AP is that you can buy custom maps that will be closer to a dyno tune but at less cost but, nothing will replace getting you car tuned on a dyno. Places like PDXTuning sell custom maps and you can even buy upgrade maps as needed for new mods.