Quick description. A stock STI on this dyno does about 205hp/210lbs.

05 STI

3" turboback, intake and dyno tune. Put down 267hp/276lbs.
Cars runs 8.30@83.66 in the 1/8th on a 1.74 60 foot.

3" turboback, intake, dyno tune, fp green 2.4", APS 725 fmic, 720cc injectors, fuel pump, perrin ebcs, 2 step colder plugs, APS headers puts down 307hp/344lbs. Put on a new clutch and lightened ACT flywheel TODAY!
Car just ran 8.08@83.88 on a 1.72 60 foot.

MZM in Austin dyno tuned it. I have been told it's my driving causing my traps to be low. However, I think the 8.0 on only 83mph shows my driving is fine.

Can someone please tell me why the hell my car only traps 83mph in the 1/8th? It seems to pull much harder on the topend at hwy speeds. The highest trap I have seen so far on my setup is 84.78mph.

I haven't gotten to go to a 1/4mile track yet. So all I have is 1/8th mile.

The battery was just reset on the car today. Anyone think it hasn't relearned the power yet? I drove it 200 miles on the hwy with minimal stop and go traffic after the battery was reset. I'm grasping for straws here.

fp green 2.4", APS 725 fmic, 720cc injectors, fuel pump, perrin ebcs, 2 step colder plugs, APS headers

^^^ was this dyno tune done on the same dyno? were you suffering from terrible boost creep, causing the tuner to go extremely conservative?

Even on a low reading dyno, only getting 40 whp and ft-lbs after adding all of the above is VERY poor....

i am assuming you are tuned for this new setup as you do have dyno numbers

Tell me more about your headers -- are they heat wrapped, or coated.
How do you stage the car ?
How long is the car running prior to launch?

The reason I ask the above, I suspect your getting slow spool due to the large turbo and cold headers, and that your "area under the curve" is down.

It makes a big difference, especially on header cars if the headers are cold, you get lazy spool from the the turbo.

azscoobie posted a thread about a year ago I recall where he documented how much of a difference it makes to get the exhaust system and turbo hot side up to temp before you race.

I noticed a difference when I started firing up the car and letting it idle for almost a minute before I staged to heat up the exhaust system. It cost me some intercooler temp, but in the long run I got better performance.

Larry

fp green 2.4", APS 725 fmic, 720cc injectors, fuel pump, perrin ebcs, 2 step colder plugs, APS headers

^^^ was this dyno tune done on the same dyno? were you suffering from terrible boost creep, causing the tuner to go extremely conservative?

Even on a low reading dyno, only getting 40 whp and ft-lbs after adding all of the above is VERY poor....

i am assuming you are tuned for this new setup as you do have dyno numbers


I was expecting more than 40whp/68lbs after all that myself. But the dyno is completely different so I didn't sweat it. Evos trap 114 with only 285hp on this dyno. The changes are by the same dyno and tuner. Another car with an FP green, fmic and headers setup put down 307 as well a few months before me. The car felt pretty fast the night after he tuned it. I raced a GTO from a roll that dynoed 459 on a dynojet and ran 12.5@118 from a 60 punch and we were even. Now it doesn't feel as fast as it was that night.

Tell me more about your headers -- are they heat wrapped, or coated.
How do you stage the car ?
How long is the car running prior to launch?

The reason I ask the above, I suspect your getting slow spool due to the large turbo and cold headers, and that your "area under the curve" is down.

It makes a big difference, especially on header cars if the headers are cold, you get lazy spool from the the turbo.

azscoobie posted a thread about a year ago I recall where he documented how much of a difference it makes to get the exhaust system and turbo hot side up to temp before you race.

I noticed a difference when I started firing up the car and letting it idle for almost a minute before I staged to heat up the exhaust system. It cost me some intercooler temp, but in the long run I got better performance.

Larry

Headers are stock. Not wrapped and they are the same style as the APS exhaust. It's like a bronze looking color. I normally don't let my car run until I am staging. I leave it off so it doesn't get heat soaked. Then I start it right when I pull up. My car feels very weak from a first gear roll. It doesn't hit until way up in the rpms and by then first is over. Same way from a second gear roll. But my car pulls through the speedometer pretty well in the upper speeds.

Anyone have logging capabilites in the Dallas area that can help me with my car to figure out why it isn't trapping right?

your cars too cold and the headers need wrapping your loosing so much spool up! first up id lag the headers, up and down pipes thatll make a huge difference
dont worry about heat soak too much as you are running a FMIC
out of interest you still running the stock turbo as you cant be far off its limit if you are especially if your running a FMIC and stock tubby

I have an FP green!

How can spool up affect me on launch? I can understand from a roll but I cut a 1.67 last night and missed second gear! I cut a 1.72 on the 8.0 run. I would think if it was not spooling my 60 foots would be bad.

your setup should have been capable of 8.0 @ 85mph with tbe and em on a 1.6 60ft, and with a green it should be capable of 7.7 @ at 90mph+ with the same launch. I'd guess you are down on power, looks like your launch is good. I would suggest leaving your car on while you are staging, to keep your manifold hot.

your setup should have been capable of 8.0 @ 85mph with tbe and em on a 1.6 60ft, and with a green it should be capable of 7.7 @ at 90mph+ with the same launch. I'd guess you are down on power, looks like your launch is good. I would suggest leaving your car on while you are staging, to keep your manifold hot.


Maybe that's why my car feels fast on the highway crusing because the manifold is hot? I am looking into the Tari logging software. Anyone know anything about it? It's free and I wanted to try it out.

How can spool up affect me on launch? I can understand from a roll but I cut a 1.67 last night and missed second gear! I cut a 1.72 on the 8.0 run. I would think if it was not spooling my 60 foots would be bad.

because your turbo doesnt spool up till later
your loosing all the acceleration in first and a chunk of second remember your turbo wont actualy spool fully until you hit 4th! like i said mate id certainly lag everything from the downpipe forwards
im sure the FPgreen wernt theere when my crap brain looked :lol:

I can say my response in first and second gear is less than exceptional. The car normally feels slow in first and second.

Am I down on power because of the headers or do I just need to wrap them? Thanks for any help you guys offer.

youd be down slightly bottom end but you gain in the top from the headers, im sticking with wrap em

What type of boost control are you running??

ECU controlled boost with lower boost in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears?? If so, on a 1/8th track you'llnever be able to see what a setup with more top end in higher gears can do.

I hate 1/8th mile comparisons without the 1/4 mile numbers...

What type of boost control are you running??

ECU controlled boost with lower boost in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears?? If so, on a 1/8th track you'llnever be able to see what a setup with more top end in higher gears can do.

I hate 1/8th mile comparisons without the 1/4 mile numbers...

I do too but I haven't been able to get to a 1/4 mile track yet.

I'm using the Perrin EBCS solenoid for boost control. The shop set it all up for me. I'm assuming the ECU doesn't have control over boost anymore with this setup.

Can I just use any exhaust wrap from a local autoparts store and wrap it up with that or do I need something special?

thats the one mate aei is good

......

avcr is a good boost controller for handling gear specific boost. You'll have the ability to turn the boost up in 1st, 2nd, 3rd gear and back it down for 4th, and 5th so you dont overboost once you have momentum. I have a specific setting for the dragstrip and one for normal driving. It's expensive, but it's a good tool for drag racing.

I don't think 84 mph is fast at all for the mods you have.

Mutasim and Mohammed told you it was you, or somebody else said that?

I don't think 84 mph is fast at all for the mods you have.

Mutasim and Mohammed told you it was you, or somebody else said that?


Mohammed said it could be my driving as well as a couple others that have come through the shop. But mph isn't going to be affected much by driving. ET will but not mph.

I just got some logs with the Tari software if anyone can look at them and help.

mohammed is telling you crap! on 99% of drag strips the ET timer doesnt start untill you break the beam, meaning you could sit for 4 seconds after green gun it and get a 7 second run!
what was your reaction time accourding to the slip?

mohammed is telling you crap! on 99% of drag strips the ET timer doesnt start untill you break the beam, meaning you could sit for 4 seconds after green gun it and get a 7 second run!
what was your reaction time accourding to the slip?


Reaction time has nothing to do with the timeslip. Only matters if you want to beat the person in the other lane.

Mohammed is talking about my shifting. He thinks I can be hitting the revlimiter between shifts. Even if I did I don't think it could cost me 5-6mph in the 1/8th.

http://www.scoobymile.com/slips/JamesKing.jpg
its a race dude lol reaction is everything! seriously though your car would still be on for a high 12 running that time over the 1/8 and as youd only change gear twice your not loosing it there either, if your tuner still thinks your redlining it cant you recall the log file?

I'm saying the reaction time does NOT affect your time in ANY way.

I didn't have the logging software at the track last night. Wish I had of logged my last run. I have it on my laptop now and I just made a few logs. I want to post them up but I don't have anywhere to host them. They are excel files.

another difference between us and uk lol over here in a paired run they add the reaction to your et for your total time
if its on ya lappy couldnt you cut and paste into the post?

Log is too big and it will look like crap if i cut and paste.

bugger! you not got a photbucket account? if not you can print screen the bit you want and e mail it to me and ill host it through mine for you

Try this link:

http://www.tari.co.za/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1141582644

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=954509

After looking at the logs my spool up sucks! I'm only at 7psi in first gear at 4600rpms!

I certainly hope you get some answers, but is there a reason why you need 4 separate threads to discuss the same low trap speed problem? This is a bit confusing, and I don't think it's going to benefit you.

Sorry, another poster just pointed out my additional posts. Just trying hard to figure it out.

you have done a pressure check (making sure for no boost leaks) and are sure you don't have an exhaust leak before the turbo correct?

you have done a pressure check (making sure for no boost leaks) and are sure you don't have an exhaust leak before the turbo correct?


The shop supposively did all that. Wouldn't the boost gauge fluctuate if I had a boost leak?

The shop supposively did all that. Wouldn't the boost gauge fluctuate if I had a boost leak?

Short answer: no.

After looking at the logs my spool up sucks! I'm only at 7psi in first gear at 4600rpms!


ummm... you DO have a big turbo. when are you expecting it to spool in 1st gear?

ummm... you DO have a big turbo. when are you expecting it to spool in 1st gear?

http://www.tari.co.za/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1141582644

dude have a look at his logs, im thinking that the pump need upgrading as it looks like the ecu has pushed the injector duty cycle up to compensate just want your 2 cents as im still learning about ecu's

Not sure on the fuel pump. I saw it at 100% too when I go WOT. That may be normal though. Not sure. I'm sending all my logs to the tuner. He's going to review them and see what he thinks.

well mate keep us updated on this

Don't worry I will. I'm pretty persistent. Especially after spending thousands of bucks and running the same times. I'll figure it out. Just may take some time.

the fuel pump duty is related to engine rpms, and nothing else. higher rpms = higher duty.

edit: after looking at the logs, it does look like on throttle snap shut it drops the DCs as well.

tis the confusing thing isnt it mate
initinaly i didnt even look twice at the fuel pump but its the 85 %+ DC on 720 cc's thats confusing! i cant think of anything else on the fuel system itd be compensating for, and theres no way (well unless your pumping ethnol through em) you should have that dc on those injectors

also, i would be concerned that you are running close to the maf sensor limitations. 4.82 is up there.

first map between 66 and 73 mate check out the afr when he comes off boost!
i think to be honest ride it looks like theres a few parts of this car running above what i would call the "comfort zone"

just out of interest quick scooby,what are you using to capture your logs as i do rather like the format the logs are in!

http://www.tari.co.za/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl

That's why I got the logging software. And it's free :)

You guys are beginning to scare me about my fuel and stuff!

If I am running past the MAF limitations what happens? I'm still on the stock MAF.

its nothing to be scared of mate, as ride will tell ya, the longer you work with engines the more you predict the worst! lol
i think ill be downloading that!

ill be honest if you dont want any more power id fit the walbro motor sport and leave it at that as your looking at serious money to run without the maf as youll need a new ecu

well essentially if you exceed the range of the maf sensor the ecu will have no idea how much fuel to inject to net a target afr, since it has lost that as an input.

part of the issue is that as you get close to the extremes the resolution drops off as well, even before you really go out of band.

whats the elevation of the 1/8 mile track and the elevation of the place you got tuned?

did they road tune the car or just dyno tune it? Did you watch them when they tuned the car? Did they tune ALL the load cells, or only the WOT load cells?

whats the elevation of the 1/8 mile track and the elevation of the place you got tuned?

did they road tune the car or just dyno tune it? Did you watch them when they tuned the car? Did they tune ALL the load cells, or only the WOT load cells?


Elevation is about 600 feet at the track and Austin I believe. They dyno tuned it and then test drove it. have no idea on the load cells.

your car is slow. End of story :p

your car is slow. End of story :p

I'll kill you.

I looked but may have missed it, what EM are you running?

You could be suffering from a rich tip in stumble that stalls the turbo slightly making the engine respool it after each shift. During normal driving and even highway driving it is not that noticable but at the track it can kill your trap speed.

After my first tune my car had the problem, but my tuner was able to tune the issue out with some minor adjustments to the Cobb AP.

The rich tip in is usually found on cars with good sized turbos and big FMIC, the ECU reads rich and does something, I really don't know if it play's with the throttle plate or the timing, to compensate for the rich condition that slows the turbo down enough to hamper respool after you complete your shift.

Good luck with the trap speed issues. Try playing around with your shift points too, this could help out as much as actually shifting faster. Also focus on hitting your shifts cleanly, a fast as hell shift that hits the gate instead of the next gear is worse than a slightly slower clean shift. Remember smooth is fast too.

I looked but may have missed it, what EM are you running?

You could be suffering from a rich tip in stumble that stalls the turbo slightly making the engine respool it after each shift. During normal driving and even highway driving it is not that noticable but at the track it can kill your trap speed.

After my first tune my car had the problem, but my tuner was able to tune the issue out with some minor adjustments to the Cobb AP.

The rich tip in is usually found on cars with good sized turbos and big FMIC, the ECU reads rich and does something, I really don't know if it play's with the throttle plate or the timing, to compensate for the rich condition that slows the turbo down enough to hamper respool after you complete your shift.

Good luck with the trap speed issues. Try playing around with your shift points too, this could help out as much as actually shifting faster. Also focus on hitting your shifts cleanly, a fast as hell shift that hits the gate instead of the next gear is worse than a slightly slower clean shift. Remember smooth is fast too.


I got cha. I think the rich tip in issue is there too. Cause when I shift my wideband shows 10.0 sometimes and stumbles a little bit when i get back on the gas. I don't think it's my driving at all. I'm not new to drag racing by any means. We're going to get it back on the dyno and figure it out. Mohammad is planning a game plan now.