swapping to a 2.5l sti short block ,and i am going to use the wrx heads i am thinking of a 264 cam kit.springs retainers also what is good,and what have people run? i have looked at

helix 264 kit
crower 264 kit
dpr
and cosworth

if i buy just cams what springs and retainers should i buy? looking for 350awhp at the wheels not much more.

Go with Kelford cams. There is a vendor here selling any of the Kelford cam setups with everything you need to upgrade your heads for around $1575!!! Kelford has 3 different stages. I am planning to go with the 272/264 setup, which is the Street/Race setup.

Though for your power goals cams are definitely not a necessity.

-Matt

you think i will hit 350 whp with stock wrx heads and cams? i just figure since things will be out i would do a little bit more to the heads just in case i get greedy :D

Its definitely not a bad idea by any means, if you have the money to do it then go for it. I have seen your power goals done with the WRX heads and STi shortblock combo. If one were on a budget then just having the heads ported isnt a bad idea.

-Matt

you think i will hit 350 whp with stock wrx heads and cams? i just figure since things will be out i would do a little bit more to the heads just in case i get greedy :D
IMHO unless you plan on shooting for over 380-400whp on a normal reading dyno your not getting a good bang for the buck spending the 2-4k for a decent head/cam setup.

You have to know for SURE what power you want before you make your final choice...as it is cheaper @ this point with the motor being out.

Most people say one thing and @ the end of the build change their minds :)

Merchant : Innovative Tuning
Date/Time : 27-Feb-2006 02:24:40 PM

========= ORDER INFORMATION =========
Invoice : 500895
Description : Kelford Camset and SuperTECH Valvetrain Kit
Amount : 1339.00 (USD)
Payment Method : MasterCard

IMHO unless you plan on shooting for over 380-400whp on a normal reading dyno your not getting a good bang for the buck spending the 2-4k for a decent head/cam setup.

You have to know for SURE what power you want before you make your final choice...as it is cheaper @ this point with the motor being out.

Most people say one thing and @ the end of the build change their minds :)


well if i hit 350 real hp i would be happy. i need to keep cost down as much as possible.so you say 350 with stock 2.0l cams ,and heads is very possible?

i got helix cams....should be here tuesday.... :banana:

swapping to a 2.5l sti short block ,and i am going to use the wrx heads i am thinking of a 264 cam kit.springs retainers also what is good,and what have people run? i have looked at

helix 264 kit
crower 264 kit
dpr
and cosworth

if i buy just cams what springs and retainers should i buy? looking for 350awhp at the wheels not much more.

Hello,

A few things to add here:

First off, 350WHP (dynojet) with a 2.5L SB and stock WRX heads is not going to be easy on pump gas. With a 18G and 93 octane you'll be close with full supporting mods but that's pushing it pretty hard. A 20G will probably get you there. With any loading dyno, it'll be even harder to hit those numbers. The 2.5L shortblock will mostly be good for a fat midrange power band.

The Helix cams come with a supporting valve train (Ti retainers, dual springs, and spring seat locators) and are a good deal cheaper than the Kelford package. We tested this package extensively and were pleasantly suprised by the results. Keeping in mind that our 4WD Mustang dyno reads extremely low (about 25% drivetrain loss as compared to about 10% on most Dynojets), with 95 octane on a 2.0L block w/ a small 20G, these cams made 330WHP peak. That is about the same peak power that a 2.5L STi that a TD06-20G / Green makes on 95!!! So if you couple the 2.0L heads w/ Helix cams with a 2.5L SB, you have a monster combination! To put those numbers in perspective, a VF34 WRX on 91 usually makes around 245-265 WHP on our dyno. 330 WHP is crazy power out of a 2.0L!!!

In short, our test results show that the WRX heads with Helix cams produce similar (if not better) peak power levels than the STi AVCS heads produce. This is not to say that they necessarily flow more air (although we think they do) or produce better power overall; the AVCS heads of the STi produce a wide and meaty torque curve that isn't achieveable with the non AVCS heads of the WRX. This is simply to say that the Helix cams flow a lot more air than the stock WRX heads and are a lethal combination with the 2.5L SB.

http://www.helix-power.com/engine/GDA-EN008Graph95Octane.jpg

Thanks,

Geoff

Hello,

A few things to add here:

First off, 350WHP (dynojet) with a 2.5L SB and stock WRX heads is not going to be easy on pump gas. With a 18G and 93 octane you'll be close with full supporting mods but that's pushing it pretty hard. A 20G will probably get you there. With any loading dyno, it'll be even harder to hit those numbers. The 2.5L shortblock will mostly be good for a fat midrange power band.

The Helix cams come with a supporting valve train (Ti retainers, dual springs, and spring seat locators) and are a good deal cheaper than the Kelford package. We tested this package extensively and were pleasantly suprised by the results. Keeping in mind that our 4WD Mustang dyno reads extremely low (about 25% drivetrain loss as compared to about 10% on most Dynojets), with 95 octane on a 2.0L block w/ a small 20G, these cams made 330WHP peak. That is about the same peak power that a 2.5L STi that a TD06-20G / Green makes on 95!!! So if you couple the 2.0L heads w/ Helix cams with a 2.5L SB, you have a monster combination! To put those numbers in perspective, a VF34 WRX on 91 usually makes around 245-265 WHP on our dyno. 330 WHP is crazy power out of a 2.0L!!!

In short, our test results show that the WRX heads with Helix cams produce similar (if not better) peak power levels than the STi AVCS heads produce. This is not to say that they necessarily flow more air (although we think they do) or produce better power overall; the AVCS heads of the STi produce a wide and meaty torque curve that isn't achieveable with the non AVCS heads of the WRX. This is simply to say that the Helix cams flow a lot more air than the stock WRX heads and are a lethal combination with the 2.5L SB.

http://www.helix-power.com/engine/GDA-EN008Graph95Octane.jpg

Thanks,

Geoff

geoff as of right now i will still be using a 1st gen pe 1820 turbo in which i layed down 324 awhp on 93 octane,and 303 awtq.this a little bit bigger than an 18g i will never use fp ever again,and numbers are just numbers. i really want consistancy with great power :D . we shall see how it pans out seeing the helix cams are on the way. my 2.0l heads will be bolted up to a sti 2.5l short block. what has the idle quality been like? little bit rough,or like stock. i know 272 duration cams sound like a harley idle

Cool. I'd actually expect your 1820 to make a bit less than an 18G as an 1820 is like a VF34 with slightly bigger compressor wheel and slightly bigger turbine housing. Numbers are just numbers and they're worthless without a baseline to compare them to. I think you'll be very pleased with the Helix cams. The idle is noticeably lumpier but nowhere close to the quality of the 272s. You don't have to worry about your engine stalling when the cams are off lobe.

-Geoff

Cool. I'd actually expect your 1820 to make a bit less than an 18G as an 1820 is like a VF34 with slightly bigger compressor wheel and slightly bigger turbine housing. Numbers are just numbers and they're worthless without a baseline to compare them to. I think you'll be very pleased with the Helix cams. The idle is noticeably lumpier but nowhere close to the quality of the 272s. You don't have to worry about your engine stalling when the cams are off lobe.

-Geoff

hey geoff it is the first generation 1820 with the adjustable wasgate spring. which flows a little bit more than an 18g. maybe make less than an 18g with the new version 1820,but i doubt it both version out flow an 18g. and i have never seen an 18g make the same power as any pe 1820. i think your turbo thoughts might be reversed :)

Hmm, that's very odd because we've never seen an 1820 outflow an 18G. You're talking about the old 1820 with the gray compressor housing? You can still get the adjustable w/g spring. In any event, not saying you're wrong; we've just never seen an 1820 make more power than an 18G.

Thanks,

Geoff

With the Helix cams do you get MIL or Check engine codes? How would these cams work with a 16g or big 16g turbo on a 2.0 litre?

cheers

garrett

No, you won't. Your car will of course need to be retuned for these cams. The effects of these cams will be less pronounced with a 16G than they will be with this small 20G but they will still make good power. We tested them with a VF34 and they made 22 WHP up top but they did lose a bit of low and midrange.

Thanks,

Geoff

The Helix cams come with a supporting valve train (Ti retainers, dual springs, and spring seat locators) and are a good deal cheaper than the Kelford package. We tested this package extensively and were pleasantly suprised by the results. Keeping in mind that our 4WD Mustang dyno reads extremely low (about 25% drivetrain loss as compared to about 10% on most Dynojets), with 95 octane on a 2.0L block w/ a small 20G, these cams made 330WHP peak. That is about the same peak power that a 2.5L STi that a TD06-20G / Green makes on 95!!! So if you couple the 2.0L heads w/ Helix cams with a 2.5L SB, you have a monster combination! To put those numbers in perspective, a VF34 WRX on 91 usually makes around 245-265 WHP on our dyno. 330 WHP is crazy power out of a 2.0L!!!

Thanks,

Geoff
Geoff, out of curiousity: have you dynoed any other type of cam on your dyno besides Helix?

I'm just curious to see all the choices compared, expensive or not. :)

Also, I'm surprise no one has asked about cam regrinding. It seems to me that regrinds would offer a nice price advantage over a commercial cam, since 4 new cams is a lot more expensive than 4 regrinds. Granted, if the ramp rate changes too much then stiffer springs would be needed.

I know many people have had great success with WebCam regrinds for custom builds on other platforms. It works best if you supply your own specs, but Web does a good job of calculating specs for you if you don't have the skills.

We have. We've also dynoed the Jun, Kelford, and DPR cams. They're all yielded relatively similar results. Out of these three, the Helix seem to be the most similar to the Jun cams.

I'd be interested to see how some regrinds do also but I haven't seen anyone running them yet.

-Geoff

sort of hijack....

Geoff, do you have any more detailed specs on the cams? i already own a pair, and jsut wanted to know a bit more.

Banzai did you not get a spec sheet with your cams?

sort of hijack....

Geoff, do you have any more detailed specs on the cams? i already own a pair, and jsut wanted to know a bit more.

I don't, I apologize :(. You'll be happy to know that we sent out a set to be specced because we wanted to know the same information. It will be posted as soon as the results come back.

Thanks,

Geoff

things like lobe seperation, duratyion at .050, gross duration and gross lift are what i'd want to know.

Yup, that's exactly what we're finding out.

Would like to know more about these cams since the alternatives are alot more money. I will have a green behind these, on the 2.5 SB and WRX heads. Trying to make close to 400whp on 91 with WI

Well, these cams definitely work. We have plenty of results and dynocharts to prove that. There are numerous people on this board running them that are quite happy with them. As far as stats on them, we still haven't gotten the cam doctor results back yet. The specifications that we do have are 264 duration, 9.6mm Lift,titanium retainers, dual valve spring, with spring seat locators. If you're looking for 400 WHP on a Dynojet, I'm fairly certain the package you described above will get you there.

Thanks,

Geoff