Can the crank and rods from a kit to go from 2.0 to 2.2 be used to go from 2.2 to 2.4? I believe the only difference is the piston size?

The answer to your question is yes, the crank and rods will work in either block as long as they are both phase one components.

When you use a 79mm crank instead of a 75mm crank in the 2.0 block it will increase the displacement by 106cc. The same 79mm crank in the 2.2 block will increase the displacement by 121cc.

Quirt Crawford
www.crawfordperformance.com

related question, what performance gains would one expect from a stroker. say a 2.2. any pros and cons?

So 75mm is the stock size? How far can a '94 2.2 block be bored out? Sleeved or not?

how will the new stroker crank affect compression?

how will the new stroker crank affect compression?

Stroking the motor will raise the compression. A custom piston will need to be made for the stroker, and at that point the dish volume can be changed to achieve the desired ratio.

Quirt Crawford
www.crawfordperformance.com

So 75mm is the stock size? How far can a '94 2.2 block be bored out? Sleeved or not?

Correct, 75mm is the stock stroke in the 2.0 motor. The 2.2 should not be bored any more than .020" or the cylinders will become to thin for big power.

This is our 2.2 block with "wet" sleeves http://www.crawfordperformance.com/products/db_part_info.cgi?id=147

Quirt Crawford
www.crawfordperformance.com

related question, what performance gains would one expect from a stroker. say a 2.2. any pros and cons?

The increased displacement will give you a larger increase in torque than power, but they will both go up :)

Quirt Crawford
www.crawfordperformance.com

how will the new stroker crank affect compression?

it raises the compression. but i think thicker head gaskets and cylinder head jobs like porting and polishing can raise it also. along with different valves, like flat faced valves.

Will a 2.2 bored .020" over become a 2.4? Not sure if the math is that easy? Would this need sleeves or only something above that?

this is OT, but can anyone explain to me how a stroker kit works? how to go from 2.0 -2.2?
any links ?
thanks, love to learn =)

Will a 2.2 bored .020" over become a 2.4? Not sure if the math is that easy? Would this need sleeves or only something above that?

If you bore the 2.2 block .020" over, you will add another 25cc to the displacement which will equal 2354cc.

When shops are advertising a 2.4, they are most likley rounding up to an even number. As an example, the 2.5L STI motor is actually 2457cc ;)

If you were going to bore the motor more than .020, I would recomend wet sleeves. Or you can leave the bore stock and put in a bigger stroke crank. An 84mm crank in the 2.2 block adds 265cc which equals a 2477cc motor that loves to rev :)

Quirt Crawford
www.crawfordperformance.com

this is OT, but can anyone explain to me how a stroker kit works? how to go from 2.0 -2.2?
any links ?
thanks, love to learn =)

Here is a quickie I found for you :)

WHAT IS A STROKER?
The term 'Stroker' means that someone has increased the stroke of their engine. Displacement is determined by BORE (the size of your piston) and STROKE (how far that piston travels up and down). There are two ways to increase displacement: You can increase bore (with a larger piston), and/or you can increase stroke by moving the crank pin (the pin holding the rod to the flyweights) further outwards on the flyweights.

If you aren't familiar with general engine operation, check out some diagrams:

WHY STROKE INSTEAD OF JUST GO BIG BORE?

Okay, so we've increased the stroke. You now have more power from the displacement increase, but you've also gained more torque. Why? Because moving that pin location outward on the crank is just like using a longer wrench to remove a stubborn bolt. You've given the engine more leverage. This allows the engine to generate power at lower rpm much more easily.

Another good thing about increasing the stroke is that with any engine that you plan on really going big, it makes more sense to increase bore and stroke, rather than just stick in a whopping large piston. In most cases, keeping the bore and stroke increases relatively equal, you will end up with a powerhouse that's more reliable and delivers power more evenly.

Quirt Crawford
www.crawfordperformance.com

Here is a quickie I found for you :)

WHAT IS A STROKER?
The term 'Stroker' means that someone has increased the stroke of their engine. Displacement is determined by BORE (the size of your piston) and STROKE (how far that piston travels up and down). There are two ways to increase displacement: You can increase bore (with a larger piston), and/or you can increase stroke by moving the crank pin (the pin holding the rod to the flyweights) further outwards on the flyweights.

If you aren't familiar with general engine operation, check out some diagrams:

WHY STROKE INSTEAD OF JUST GO BIG BORE?

Okay, so we've increased the stroke. You now have more power from the displacement increase, but you've also gained more torque. Why? Because moving that pin location outward on the crank is just like using a longer wrench to remove a stubborn bolt. You've given the engine more leverage. This allows the engine to generate power at lower rpm much more easily.

Another good thing about increasing the stroke is that with any engine that you plan on really going big, it makes more sense to increase bore and stroke, rather than just stick in a whopping large piston. In most cases, keeping the bore and stroke increases relatively equal, you will end up with a powerhouse that's more reliable and delivers power more evenly.

Quirt Crawford
www.crawfordperformance.com

thank you! that made sense! Do you have any tech articles on this ? or on anything? I just want to read :)

what 2.2 are we talking about here? the old turbo, or n/a 2.2? i agree with keeping the rod ratio similar to what it has, just going bigger in both dimensions. what is on the verge of a poor rod ratio in these motors? and is the old 2.2t same bore n stroke as the n/a 2.2? thanks!

I had been asking about the old 2.2 turbo. I hope thats what Quirt was talking about!?!?!? :)

The 90-94 NA has same rod and crank as the 91-94 turbo motor.

We could be talking about the turbo or n/a motor... As reddevil stated, they share the same dimensions. :)

Quirt Crawford
www.crawfordperformance.com

So the old 2.2l NA motor... What crank would constitute the stroker crank? from a phase I 2.5l? I am a bit lost... up here in VT the 2.2l motors can be had for a $100 or so (NA not terbo) and I would love to build a little beast. I have been learning that simply dropping the 2.2l heads onto the 2.5l (PH I) block will result in 11:1 CR. IS there a crank to drop into that PH I 2.5l block to stroke that?

So the old 2.2l NA motor... What crank would constitute the stroker crank? from a phase I 2.5l? I am a bit lost... up here in VT the 2.2l motors can be had for a $100 or so (NA not terbo) and I would love to build a little beast. I have been learning that simply dropping the 2.2l heads onto the 2.5l (PH I) block will result in 11:1 CR. IS there a crank to drop into that PH I 2.5l block to stroke that?

I would not bother with a 2.2L open deck n/a motor to build a beast from, as the cylinders are only supported in two places. Use the 2.2L turbo block that has a fully closed deck, or the STI block that has a semi closed deck.

If you want to stroke the 2.0 or 2.2 block , you can use the crank from the 2.5l phase one to achieve this goal.

Our Billet stroker cranks are designed to fit the phase one and phase two blocks without any machining to the block :) These cranks will stroke the 2.2L into a 2.5L, and the 2.5L into a 2.6+L :banana:

Quirt Crawford
Crawford Performance

Im just thinking of staying NA... I have a 96 so OBDII is what I plan on staying with, but jusdt looking for a bit more oomph.

I will invest in a 93-96 Impreza and do a swap If I want sick power...

Just looking for a bit more BUDGET snot outa the 2.2l... stroking, head swap, etc... that kinda budget... not turbo and mad wiring!

ok so i have jdm ver 7 block. i am going to build it up soon, so if i got a 2.5 crank what else would i need to change. i dont have to bore it out right. i can just put the bigger crank in there. do i need different specs on my pistons and rods or can i just get some stronger stock spec ones.

ok so i have jdm ver 7 block. i am going to build it up soon, so if i got a 2.5 crank what else would i need to change. i dont have to bore it out right. i can just put the bigger crank in there. do i need different specs on my pistons and rods or can i just get some stronger stock spec ones.

You will not need to bore out your ver 7 block unless the bores are damaged. If you don't have the proper equipment to measure the bores, then do yourself a favor and have it done by a shop that does. The condition of your cylinder bores are a very important part of your build up ;)

You will need to make a custom set of rods or pistons to go with the 79mm 2.5L crank. The choice is yours but usually a set of custom pistons are cheaper to have made than a custom set of rods. If you end up needing to bore your block, then the best choice will be a set of custom pistons. :)

Good luck,

Quirt Crawford
Crawford Performance

sent you a pm......and i willnot be doing this myself. i will be taking it to one of two places. have not decided yet

Aside from a standalone, what kinda engine management would be best run with a motor that has a 2.2t block, 2.5STI crank and dohc heads? Does it matter which stock computer you start with?

Also, what heads will bolt to a stock 2.2 block? Which are best? :devil:

pretty much ANY EJ heads will bolt to the EJ22 block........but it depends on your poison...N/A or turbo...and big power or a little more power..

~Josh~

sent you a pm......and i willnot be doing this myself. i will be taking it to one of two places. have not decided yet

PM returned :)

Thanks,

Quirt Crawford
Crawford Performance

Aside from a standalone, what kinda engine management would be best run with a motor that has a 2.2t block, 2.5STI crank and dohc heads? Does it matter which stock computer you start with?

What year car is your car, and which dohc heads do you plan on using?

Quirt Crawford
Crawford Performance

I would not bother with a 2.2L open deck n/a motor to build a beast from, as the cylinders are only supported in two places. Use the 2.2L turbo block that has a fully closed deck, or the STI block that has a semi closed deck.
Quirt Crawford
Crawford Performance

Quirt,
You wouldn't but I would. :devil: But then, you know me and my mad scientist tendencies. I am using a '94 Ej22E block with SOHC EJ25 heads for my next build. It's not going to be a true beast, but for us guys that are content with 300chp, it's probably a really viable low cost option. I know a couple of guys pushing 15psi through this sort of set up. I think the EJ22E block is terribly underrated. Realistically, I don't think it has the same issues that the EJ25 NA blocks have because of it's smaller bore, and even though it's open deck, the sleeves are thicker than Ej25 sleeves. There will be a thread in AFI for interested parties once the engine is actually in the car. And if I blow it up, I'll publish that as well... :D

Quirt,
You wouldn't but I would. :devil: But then, you know me and my mad scientist tendencies. I am using a '94 Ej22E block with SOHC EJ25 heads for my next build. It's not going to be a true beast, but for us guys that are content with 300chp, it's probably a really viable low cost option. I know a couple of guys pushing 15psi through this sort of set up. I think the EJ22E block is terribly underrated. Realistically, I don't think it has the same issues that the EJ25 NA blocks have because of it's smaller bore, and even though it's open deck, the sleeves are thicker than Ej25 sleeves. There will be a thread in AFI for interested parties once the engine is actually in the car. And if I blow it up, I'll publish that as well... :D

You are correct Matt, at 300 HP the 2.2 n/a block will work just fine. :o
Most of the buggy motors we did in the past were based on the 2.5 n/a block and put out 450HP on 110 octane fuel. The only parts we replaced were the rods, every thing else was stock from a 1997 2.5L Legacy motor.

Here are some photos of these buggys / motors :) http://www.crawfordperformance.com/gallery/image_viewer.cgi?sectionID=25

Quirt Crawford
Crawford Performance

matt im goin for a junk build(basket case car) too. im usin my ej18 motor n trans from my donor chassis. i've heard this is a good block for the same reason the 2.2 is better than the 2.5. im using a 2002 wrx turbo setup from my old OBS, so thats free.
what could i do for a cheap turbo friendly build? cheap 2.2 heads or thicker HG's? what would be cheaper, or easier to source?
and what kind of parts you got layin abouts? :) i'll have a lil $$ to spend, but shootin for free. im sellin my RHD dash for sum bux to fund the new project plus some other parts.
oh yeah, this is going to be an awd 240sx(180sx??) powered by the turbo suby transplant!

ok woa...I'm glad I found this. I just sent my new ej22t block to the machine shop to install it on my 98rs DOHC heads.

Are you saying that I can use my ej25 crank on the ej22t??? is it just as strong? worth the extra displacement?? I was going to just bore it...but I guess its pretty easy to swap the cranks too :cool: are there any down sides to the longer stroke as far as reving up and redline goes?

so If I bore my ej22t .020'' over and swap in my 98rs crank(phase 1 right?) I will have a final displacment of what?

I was going to go with scat H beam rods from an ej20...does this mean I can no longer use them with the ej25 crank?

Yes you can use your Phase I EJ25 DOHC crank as a drop in replacement into the 22t block. However you will also need to use Phase I EJ25 DOHC Rods as well because the main bores on the 2.2 rods need to be about 4mm bigger to fit around the 2.5 crank.

I'm doing a build now using my 2.2t block with Wiseco .020" overbore off the shelf pistons, a set of used/but in great shape Pauter Phase I EJ25 Forged Rods, and my EJ25 DOHC Phase I crank.

I don't know how far I would trust the stock 2.5 rods and stock 2.2 pistons under boost.

I did have a question. What will total displacement be for my set:

Ej22t bore .020" over w\
Ej25 Phase I 79mm crank

Is it a 2.5 or 2.8?

What is the equation for determing displacement?

Brad

ok thats exactly what I want to do... .020'' over and ej25 crank ...but

where Can I find decent(but affordable) rods for the phase 1 ej25?

I take it aftermarket sti rods would not work...

They will not work but a few shops I emailed recommended them thinking I was asking them about 257 rods.

Ive talked with Jack @ Ion Performance and they want an absolutely rediculous $1700 for their rod/piston combo for my same build. I was able to score a used set of Pauter SUB-230-510-1315F (http://www.pauter.com/subaru.htm) for $475. Its costing me $100 to have the pin bearings replaced but hey $575 is still way cheaper then the alternative:)

Basically what I am trying to say there is no cheap Eagle H-Beam Ebay deal out there for $300 like there are for the 2.0 and 2.2. I searched and searched and the only company that I could simply go to their website and order a brand new set of forged Phase I DOHC rods from were Pauter. I got a quote from Manley for $1200 for a custom set which was the cheapes I'd heard of.

Good luck. Anybody figure out what my final displacement will be?

if I keep my stock bore...will the ej20/22 pistons bolt onto the phase 1 ej25 rods?

Stock bore as in stock 2.2 bore but with EJ25 Phase I crank and rods?

If so yes that should be a safe assumption. I haven't heard anyone say there are variations of pin diameters between the different models.

http://www.pauter.com/subaru.htm

Pauter's site should confirm this. They show no variation of pin diameter between the different rods they manufacture.

If you do stay with stock bore forged pistons be sure to at least hone and have the cylinders measured by a machine shop to make sure the piston to wall gap is not warped and is within spec. If there is too much room when you install new pistons they will slap and prematurely wear out your motor at minimum.

Wiseco carries on the shelf forged pistons for the 2.2t block with the proper valve reliefs for the stock heads in variations of .020" over (K601M975), and .040" over(K601M98). The above explanation is why they don't really sell stock diameter pistons.

Summit Racing has the best prices ive seen $433.

Just because you don't swap the heads doesn't mean you can't get the most out of your stroker:)

Brad

so the formula for this build would be:

2.2 , keep bore
85mm crank
257 rods
weisco pistons
=
2.4 liter monster
?

MY99 2.5GT: the "formula" is quite simple. Find the cylindrical volume (4/3 pi r^2 x h) and multiply by 4 :) Do it in either mm or inchs, can't mix & match those units.
The guys at ION definately know what they're doing. I've seen their custom pistons for a very similar build my cousin did... man are they gorgeous! So are their rods. You did however score a sweet deal with the used rods and off-the-shelf pistons :)

257 rods will not work

:mad: oops

so what are the options for this build?

I think that I got confused , when Quirt said " use the 84mm crank on the 2.2 and it loves to rev"...or something like that.

so the 2 options for the 2.2 are

1) keep stroke , 84mm crank , custom rods and pistons (from whoever) = 2.8

or

2) bore 0.020 over with 205 crank and rods , custom pistons = 2.4

Is this correct?

...What is the equation for determing displacement?...

pi/4·d²·s·N

Where
pi = 3.1416
d = diameter of the bore
s = chrankshaft stroke
N = number of pistons

MY99 2.5GT: the "formula" is quite simple. Find the cylindrical volume (4/3 pi r^2 x h) and multiply by 4 :) ...

Your formula is a little mixed up.

4/3·pi·r^3 is the volume of a sphere.

For a cylinder determine surface area of the circle and multiply by the height.

so what are the options for this build?

I think that I got confused , when Quirt said " use the 84mm crank on the 2.2 and it loves to rev"...or something like that.

so the 2 options for the 2.2 are

1) keep stroke , 84mm crank , custom rods and pistons (from whoever) = 2.8

or

2) bore 0.020 over with 205 crank and rods , custom pistons = 2.4

Is this correct?
anybody?