Hey guys im about to move on up to a gt35r, most likely going with kingpin kit. Damn nice kit. Anyway my current mods are Utec, RFL Turboback exhaust. In addition to the kingpin kit im getting the kinping fmic, apex avcr, helix 860cc injectors, walboro fuel pump, blowthrough maf, hks ssbov and porting my tgvs. Is there any power benefits or any benefits at all of running an ecutek ontop of the utec?

Yeah, you get to change your AVCS mapping w/ ecutek so you can pick up a few hundred rpm in spool.

hmm interesting...

I just wen through the same thing recently so I will share my decision making process. I went with the ECUTEK and just removed my UTEC entirely. I stepped up to a SZ55 and bigger injectors, bigMAF, etc. I wanted the ECUTEK because it uses the stock ECUs formidable processing power and made for easy integration of my AVCR. I also never changed maps on the UTEC so that feature was wasted on me as well as the ability of the ECUTEK to scale the injectors seamlessly. If I were gonna run Meth or alcohol or water, I would have run the ECUTEK with the UTEC on top so that I could switch to different maps for different fuels and/or injections.

Good Luck

Well i do plan on getting alcohol injection, so i am gonna keep the utec but, i dont know if i wanna spend another $700 just to get the ecutek and the only thing it really does is reduce spool. If the ecutek/utec will yield more power than just a utec than i might go that route.

I have seen idle problems running the big maf with utec. The I have seen cars idle perfect with the big maf on a reflash. Its probably in the tune but I think the ability to idle correctly and injector scalling the utec doesnt compare with a reflash.

Maybe someone with more knowledge in tuning can correct me if im wrong. But it changed my mind. Im running a built 2.5 bottom end with 820cc injectors and a fp red with 272 duration cams on stock wrx heads. I was originally going with a utec but I have decided to use Cobb street tuner software instead, after seeing my friend with a 35r kit almost pull his hair out with idle issues with the utec + big maf.

If you want stock like driveability and a smoother transition from the crossover then ECUTek plus UTEC is the only way to go. If you dont mind a crappy idle or the crossover delay then stay with just the UTEC. The software support for both the UTEC and ECUTek suck, so neither is better than the other. Its been a couple of years since there has been an update for the UTEC and several years since ECUTek have been promising the ability to change maps and make minor changes to your maps via Deltadash for the STi. Both companies are a disappointment if you ask me.

-Matt

Well if you get stock like drivability then i guess i will go with the ecutek/utec also reduced spool times doesnt hurt.

This is kind of topic but would adding headers be beneficial in anyway?

Also with ECUTek when you do the TGV deletes you can just toss the sensors and motors all together and turn out the CEL's with the ECUTek software. Not to mention all the other CEL's you can turn off such as the rear O2 sensor code.

-Matt

An aftermarket exhaust manifold wont make much of a difference. If you do go with an aftermarket manifold have it coated otherwise it will effect your spool time in a negative way. Stock is usually the best way to go.

-Matt

I'm running an ecutek/utec combo, no problems. I have amazing spool on a GT35R, probably from the ecutek tuning by Doug at TopSpeed. $700 extra is a lot of money, I'd probably start with the utec and see how it goes.

With that setup, you should be investing in a wideband 02 sensor for your UTEC. If you're willing to ditch the UTEC all together, I'd get a stand alone like a Hydra. Integrated wideband.

reflash+UTEC=HEAVEN.

Yes get a wideband 100%, you need it.

I thought you only need a wideband if you are going to do the tuning yourself. Second i was gonna go with a hydra but the fact that its no OBD-II compliant, costs more to tune and gets rid of the cruise control is not very appealing. Lastly this is again of topic but will a ACT Max Street Clutch be able to hold all the power?

I thought you only need a wideband if you are going to do the tuning yourself. Second i was gonna go with a hydra but the fact that its no OBD-II compliant, costs more to tune and gets rid of the cruise control is not very appealing. Lastly this is again of topic but will a ACT Max Street Clutch be able to hold all the power?
Wideband is like another gauge... it's nice to know that if for some reason your AFR's change, something is going wrong and you don't want to beat on the car.

If you are going to even remotely use diff maps I would suggest a third option. An Access port. Ecutec has no map switching hence the need for the UTEC. Also if you change your mind you cannot sell your ECUTEC license (swap ECU's due to the immobilizer on 05 and 06 ECU's). AP you can unmarry and sell. Also you can have half a dozen base maps and many real time maps. So if you sell your UTEC you will be enough to pretty much buy an AP.

Cheers

Nick

Yeah what Nick said^^^^. Scrap the whole ecutek idea completely and get protuned with an AP.

so you guys are saying use a AP protune/utec or just the protune itself. Also will the protune be able to tune AVCS and make the car drive like stock and do you need to get the street tuner as well?

I would just use the AP alone unless for some reason you already have a UTEC. THe AP is just like the ECUTek except it will hold more than one map and you actually get a piece of hardware (oh wait, isnt it cheaper too :p ). It's a reflash device so the tuner can tune AVCS and everything that the ECUTek replash is capable of! You do NOT need the street tuner.

What about a Vishnu Xede?

I like them cause they have pretty colored lights that turn off and on while driving :p


The AP seems to be the way to go for most people :)
If you don't like it...the APs also have a killer resale.

I do have the utec. My mind is set AP/UTEC is the way to go. Why use one when you can use both.

I thought you only need a wideband if you are going to do the tuning yourself. Second i was gonna go with a hydra but the fact that its no OBD-II compliant, costs more to tune and gets rid of the cruise control is not very appealing. Lastly this is again of topic but will a ACT Max Street Clutch be able to hold all the power?

You use the cruise control ? :lol:

Anyways, switching to your factory ECU and changing your injectors isn't hard.

Before you make your decision on EM, chat with some people who have tried different versions.

Newbie Subie has a 2.5l hybrid WRX with a rotated GT turbo. He's had a UTEC, ECUTEK, Vishnu, and a Hydra. When I asked him about the difference between them, he told me ithe Hydra was hands down the best EM. Hydra's themselves aren't what makes them so great. It's Phil at Element Tuning. Plus losing the need of the factory MAF sensor and going 100% map based is worth losing the cruise control. No more having to worry about intakes making your car run lean, and other irritating MAF based issues. The Hydra also has AVCS conrol, and Phil has been able to tune the larger rotated setups where the AVCS has been able to improve full boost by up to 500 rpms! That's a huge difference since you want that boost as long as you can.

Having Phil protune your car may be more than the tuner you use, but most people would agree he's one of the best tuners in the country. Maybe it's not worth having one of the best Subaru tuners in the country tune a stage 2 WRX, but anyone with a rotated setup would yield large gains. Hell, I'm only getting a bolt-on turbo for my setup and I still will have Phil tune my car.


Any case, any of them are good. If you don't want to know what's going on with your setup, but you just want to have somebody tune it, then you'll be fine without it. I personally don't trust that any tune will be the best tune for all conditions. You may start to have issues, and having to bring it to a tuner every time can be a pain.

Just to let you know I had issues when I tried to use both UTEC and Cobb AP. The car lost controller over the PE 850 injectors and would just dump fuel. Did it bad enough so that the car wouldn't start at all, it would just pour a river of fuel out the exhaust.

My setup may not have been setup right for the two to work together, but I just removed the UTEC and went with the Cobb AP. Cars runs fine with just the AP, the only thing I really lost was launch control and Cobb is working on that from what I have heard.

I am doing a similar build now and I am going to just use the Cobb AP to run the show.

Good luck with your build, your car should be sick!

hydra

ACT 6 Puck with streetlight flywheel. Ask MarkGSTi, he is super happy with his.

Is it streetable, cuz i drive to washington dc everyday in really crappy traffic, and also get stuck in uphill traffic.

if youre willing to be creative around emissions, you cannot do better than hydra and a tune by phil.

if youre willing to be creative around emissions, you cannot do better than hydra and a tune by phil.

I agree. Too much gear to not at least chat with Phil. You're setup is sick, and I think it warrants at least a talk with some Hydra users.

Call Garret at World One. He does a very good job explaining the exact differences of a Hydra vs. other em options in very basic terms.

I think the hydra for this setup is kind of a waste of money considering he can get into an AP for $550. I am not trying to take anything away from the Hydra at all because I understand it's benefits but for this user I do believe that an AP tune will be just perfect for his daily driving. Just have to make sure you get the MAF out of the engine bay with a couple of bends before the turbo and you will be golden.

For the cost of a reflash AND a UTEC, you probably want to look at a Hydra. It can control WI, spare solenoids, extra injectors, nitrous, can run speed*density and get rid of your MAF, etc. I think it also has programable antilag, launch control, and a few other goodies you'll never get with a reflash. If I can't get what I want out of the openecu reflash and UTEC, I may go Hydra myself. It's got "buttery goodness" written all over it.

Obvious downsides are lack of OBD interface and loss of cruise control. It's pretty impractical to run one if you have inspections in your state. You'd need a spare stock ECU that was flashed well enough to run the car to pass inspection, and I don't know what all would be involved in swapping back and forth. I suspect it is more than just unplugging one and plugging in another, but Element would know better.

Just an AP for $645 is not really comparable to a full standalone in the slightest. Completely different class of product. I do believe the stock ECU is smart enough with a good tune to run a powerful car, but there are things it will probably never do short of someone writing custom logic from the ground up, which is unlikely.

i got similar questions as the orginal poster... if i/he went with just a AP do we need the street tuner to to get a protune. or just the AP and the tuner handles the rest? sorry i know jack crap about AP's.

I have seen idle problems running the big maf with utec. The I have seen cars idle perfect with the big maf on a reflash. Its probably in the tune but I think the ability to idle correctly and injector scalling the utec doesnt compare with a reflash.

Maybe someone with more knowledge in tuning can correct me if im wrong. But it changed my mind. Im running a built 2.5 bottom end with 820cc injectors and a fp red with 272 duration cams on stock wrx heads. I was originally going with a utec but I have decided to use Cobb street tuner software instead, after seeing my friend with a 35r kit almost pull his hair out with idle issues with the utec + big maf.

it depends on the setup and tuner.

turbo xs is currently waiting on the software update from Austrilla so they can tune cars in the excess of 700 hp and more easily and safe.

it will act more like a stand alone than a piggyback.

^^^ Has turboxs given any info on when this new software release is coming out?

i got similar questions as the orginal poster... if i/he went with just a AP do we need the street tuner to to get a protune. or just the AP and the tuner handles the rest? sorry i know jack crap about AP's.

Just buy the AP and the tuner will do the rest. No street tuner needed at all.

^^^ Has turboxs given any info on when this new software release is coming out?

i called last week and they said it should be here at the end of this month. as long as there are no more delays from AU.

im sure they will test it out for a little bit before releasing it also

I hope they release it soon. It is definitely LONG OVER DUE......


-Matt

Its been a couple of years since there has been an update for the UTEC and several years since ECUTek have been promising the ability to change maps and make minor changes to your maps via Deltadash for the STi. Both companies are a disappointment if you ask me.

-Matt

i dont understand, Turboxs has the last firmware update for the UTEC dated as Sept, of 05. Unless you mean some kind of update for something like the MAP based software they've talked about.

They've smoothed out the closed loop and open loop transitioning greatly, and launch control is quite sick especially with rpm limit for flat shifting and launching. (be careful with ign cut)

I know people have gotten great drivability out of ecutek and utec combined, but, you can get pretty good drivability with the UTEC alone, just takes time. I like ECUTEK, and use deltadash myself along with the UTEC. Its just a lot of money for drivability for the two combined. If you have the money more power to you though.

I think the hydra for this setup is kind of a waste of money considering he can get into an AP for $550. I am not trying to take anything away from the Hydra at all because I understand it's benefits but for this user I do believe that an AP tune will be just perfect for his daily driving. Just have to make sure you get the MAF out of the engine bay with a couple of bends before the turbo and you will be golden.
Move the MAF to the charge side[blow thru] and the car will idle fine you will just have to go thru and lean out your fuel maps but you will get a true iat reading. when the maf is before the turbo,the turbo will still back pressure to the maf when you come to a stop which causes an idle problem why do you think kingpin and others now offer a blowthru setup.

i dont understand, Turboxs has the last firmware update for the UTEC dated as Sept, of 05. Unless you mean some kind of update for something like the MAP based software they've talked about.

They've smoothed out the closed loop and open loop transitioning greatly, and launch control is quite sick especially with rpm limit for flat shifting and launching. (be careful with ign cut)

I know people have gotten great drivability out of ecutek and utec combined, but, you can get pretty good drivability with the UTEC alone, just takes time. I like ECUTEK, and use deltadash myself along with the UTEC. Its just a lot of money for drivability for the two combined. If you have the money more power to you though.


There are other Subaru's out there other than the WRX, and incase you didnt know they use different UTEC's. The software update for the STi/LGT UTEC is long over due. Yes, they just released an update for the WRX but that doesnt mean anything for the rest of us. Still waiting for an update for the STi UTEC.............

-Matt

thanks, I wasnt being sarcastic. didnt occur to me

check pricing on protuner...
street tuner is a good option.

utec + reflash is a better option, no doubt.

you can take care of the housekeeping with the reflash, then put frosting on top with the utec.

UTEC with map sensor (will be out shortly :)) and alcohol injection (I have a GB right now for alky btw) ftw