Anybody know what this car is gonna run? I am gonna be purchasing a vehicle next summer.... might wait a bit if I think the STi is a chance... also what does this car have on the normal WRX...

I would guess about $35k..

I would think no more than 30, IMHO subaru donsent have the reputation here in the states to sell a 35k economy size car no matter how fast it is. But i would pay between 30-35 for it

id say 30 to 35.....although subaru may not have the "reputation" here in the states, those who know what the STi is, they would pay 35 for it.

:monkey:

my dealer told me that they will be so limited that they will most likely be 40k.. Hence they have no competition.

I'm guessing 31.5K for the WRX, 30.8 for the Evo.

Call me crazy. But mark my words.

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No way it'll be $30K. Probably closer to $35K give or take.

I am going to say about $33-34k. Take off $1-2K if it doesn't have the 6 speed as a base price

$32K MSRP, $40K dealer gouging. S2K ring a bell?

Originally posted by Jaemmo
$32K MSRP, $40K dealer gouging. S2K ring a bell?

The S2K is having problems selling at even MSRP now these days. I don't think that the WRX STI or not will ever really go over MSRP. It's just a fast sedan. Not a M3 or anything. It's a SUBARU! The S2K initially sold well, because it's a Roadster and everyone was wanting one. I think it will sell at or around $30K.

Eleventy billion dollars ;). It's really a moot point, because the car has not been nor is there any concrete evidence yet that it will be released to the states (I'm sorry, but brother's friend and/or sister's coworker who saw one with "testing plates" at the Circle K isn't evidence to me). Based on the standard WRX price vs. STi price overseas, an STi edition would be about $35,000. Keep in mind SOA sold lots of SVX's (not as many as they would have liked of course) at $30,000 to $35,000 at a time when they were known for boxy grocery getters. Now, for good or bad, every damn person knows what a WRX is, and I can forsee them selling many STi's even at $35,000.

Brian
http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com
http://www.imprezamods.com
http://www.scoobymods.com
IClub: Now with 20% more caffeine!

Hell, I'd pay 35K for an STi with a 6-spd tranny........(and probably will if it comes):D

I say it would be $35k MSRP

If the price gets in the $40k range, then thats S4 territory. Which car do you think people, who don't know the STi, would lean towards buying? Even if they added all the luxuries to match the S4 (which I hope to God they don't) Americans will buy the S4 because its an Audi (you know...a status thing).

Yet, if the STi was sold in limited quantities, then for sure they will all be bought. But if they ever want to increase production, would they have a large enough market of people willing to buy a 40k Subaru? Just my $0.02.

$30k to $35k is just about right I would say.

I'm saying below 30k just like the nissan 350z, evoVII and RX-8 to compete. It's not that i like the idea or anything since i know we probably won't be getting the full blown version. The most costly items which would bring the price down is the brembo brakes (3k), climate control, seats, and xenon "sti light" which i know cost around around 1.5k. Just with the brakes and lights removed it's a 30k car. REmember we probably won't be getting the navigation system or the panasonic stero with the mini disc since it's not popular here.

Originally posted by Jaemmo
$32K MSRP, $40K dealer gouging. S2K ring a bell?

I hope not! I had an S2000 before this....Car's awesome and all, but it sure as hell doesn't compete with the WRX.....the beauty of all wheel drive.....and, the S2000 is fast, but it's no fun to drive....you have to stay on pavement, watch for bumps, worry about where you park, and you can only carry 1 other person and a couple bags of stuff.......stick with the WRX.....and the STi would surely blow the S2k out of the water

as far as the s4 goes, go race one through some twisties, you'll find yourself pulling on them the whole way.

The dealer rep said MY 2004 in 2003 (while dealing with my boost gauge issue). That's what he thinks and I wouldn't be surprised. Cost never came up. I would assume that it all depends on what is standard and what is optional as far as cost.

James

gtr, the Evo 7 is not available in the US yet... how do you know it costs less than $30k when it's not even here yet? ;)

Brian
http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com
http://www.imprezamods.com
http://www.scoobymods.com
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?

If the STi was under 30k, knobody would buy a WRX.:rolleyes:

You want my guess? I'd say Subaru will only bring 1000 or less WRX's here. The MSRP would be between 32-35k depending on options (if any). After dealer adjusting and demand mark up crap, if you could even find one, I guesstimate 40k+ out the door.

Think I'm crazy? How about all the idiots that paid 40k for a 'regular' WRX? Trust me, there are more than you think. Hey, plenty of people on this board paid over 30k for their WRXs.

Originally posted by Ant WRX
If the STi was under 30k, knobody would buy a WRX.:rolleyes:

You want my guess? I'd say Subaru will only bring 1000 or less WRX's here. The MSRP would be between 32-35k depending on options (if any). After dealer adjusting and demand mark up crap, if you could even find one, I guesstimate 40k+ out the door.

Think I'm crazy? How about all the idiots that paid 40k for a 'regular' WRX? Trust me, there are more than you think. Hey, plenty of people on this board paid over 30k for their WRXs.


You're right on the money. A WRX with 90% of the options is well over $30K as it is. If a Sti was even $30K flat, WHO in their right mind would pay $27 for a WRX? Not me.

It's like selling a base firebird for $21 and a SS for $24. It wouldn't work. They are going to sell volume with the 2.5RS, and get presteige (sp) from the WRX/Sti. I say it'll be MSRP of $35K at least. and we know we aren't getting any cool Brembo brakes, or any sort of recaros! What car has made it over with those (that are under $70K)?

-C

I do not understand isn’t the current WRX sold in the states a version of the STI? Why would they send another car over that is not like the original again? Does anybody know for sure if the states will see the STI soon, or is this all rumor? If they did it would have to be priced over the WRX and that takes them into a different market so I would guess a limited amount of them would make it to the states. Just my opinion though.

Torch.

gtr, the Evo 7 is not available in the US yet... how do you know it costs less than $30k when it's not even here yet?

OH, it's like a tradition that the sti cost more. Always have in asia and always will be i guess. As for the 30k it's usually 2 grand cheaper that the subaru sti and the rs version is priced around the regular wrx prices. I feel the whole reason why subaru is considering the sti right now is because the evo might come out and subaru is worried. And subaru has to be priced compeditively. If a super detuned evo comes at around 25k to compete against the wrx we might never see the sti here. So, i guess mitsubishi is going to set the standard.

Originally posted by Torch
I do not understand isn’t the current WRX sold in the states a version of the STI? Why would they send another car over that is not like the original again?

I think your confused on the model line up. An STi is actually called a WRX Sti. It's 'just' an upgraded WRX. More power, better brakes, better interior, better tranny(?), better...almost everything; right down to the lights.;)

One thing TypeC mentioned that got me thinking was the comment on the Recaros. See, I am pretty happy with my WRX's performance...in other words, it's plenty fast for me. The thing I like the most about the STi is the awesome interior. The blue sued leather Recaro seats are the sweetest part...but if we got shafted out of the stock European/Jap WRX seats, maybe we would get the shaft with the STi seats too. That would be very disappointing.

Originally posted by Ant WRX
...One thing TypeC mentioned that got me thinking was the comment on the Recaros. See, I am pretty happy with my WRX's performance...in other words, it's plenty fast for me. The thing I like the most about the STi is the awesome interior. The blue sued leather Recaro seats are the sweetest part...but if we got shafted out of the stock European/Jap WRX seats, maybe we would get the shaft with the STi seats too. That would be very disappointing...

I'll put money that the recaros never make it. Just look at the Integra TypeR. It has sweet Recaros in Japan(many colors too), but gets the same ol Integra seats (VERY supportive already) with different fabric (not to mention the other 4 million things taken away) in the US. The recaros alone will make the WRX $30K (assuming going price).

we'll see.

-C

I would stop guessing and have the moderators put this thread in the right forum.

if/when the STI gets here, the only thing we know is that it will be more expensive than the WRX

OH, it's like a tradition that the sti cost more. Always have in asia and always will be i guess. As for the 30k it's usually 2 grand cheaper that the subaru sti and the rs version is priced around the regular wrx prices.

I was always under the impression that EVOs have been more expensive then STi's by a large margin. This only changed when the EVO 7 came out competitively priced, but generally the STi has been the more "mainstream" cheaper car compared to the more "hardcore" EVO. I believe the early EVOs were upwards of 10k more then the similar STi model. Probably also a reason why the EVO in stock form outperforms the STi in most tests... I wonder if the cars are equal given a good amount of tuning (~10k on each) or if the EVO still keeps running away.

D

I don't think so unless your talking about the special edition models. like the rs450. Give me a case when the evo cost more that the sti subaru? Yeah the evo is more expensive than the wrx (280ps) but not the sti. "you can't compare type RA vs EVO GSR, Type ra compares with EVO RS" Anyways i'm talking about gsr vs evo x.

Last I heard the Evo was almost a grand less than the STi.

Check out some news about the Evo (http://auto.ascii24.com/auto24/e/list/200101_all.html) .

US$21K for the RS, US$25.5K for the GSR in Japan as of Jan 2001.

Import taxes can't be more than 20% can they?

I can post a pdf brochure about the Evo if anybody is interested. Sounds like an incredible car.

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hmmm, I searched around and at least w/ the UK grey importers EVO GSR's and the STi's (not sure which variant) were priced relatively similarly... it was only in Australia where the price was pretty exorbitant for the EVO it seems. Couldn't find any solid figures for japanese prices but I could've sworn that EVO's were more expensive simply because there were less of them around.

o well
D

The EVO VII is out in Europe and left hand drive. I have seen a good amount of EVO VI last year when I was in Europe. This year they had the EVO VII(it was a dealership). They would not let me take it for a test drive. Also Ralliart (the equivalent of Prodrive on subarus) makes a modified EVO VII called extreme with 340 BHP on tap. I have read tests of it last month and have a magazine with a short test of it. They state outright that the extreme version will surpass an M3 with no problems at all. .:D


Cheers

T

titsataki - how much were the EVO's. don't tell me you didn't notice.

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last year I found a new EVO VI in Belgium for 30k (US- equivalent)
the new EVO VII was about the same maybe a few hundred more. The EVO VII extreme was around 38-40k.

Here is a link to the source ralliart in the UK. They even selling a 6sp STi :)

http://www.ralliartuk.com/contents/index.htm

check out the used cars and the new cars. They do have left handers and prices.

next year I am stopping over the UK for a long weekend and I will try to visit that place.


Cheers

T.

PS: last year before the WRX was reality for the US I investigated heavily the cost and chances of importing a car like an EVO from Europe but the cost was very prohibitive. Going through a company that specializes in importing exotic cars I was told that it would cost me more than 50% of the value of the EVO to spec it for US import. Around $15k.

So 30K + 15K = $45k. Now this is for street legal inthe US. By the way it was an estimate since they had never imported/federalized such a car.

Latest SCC says the EvoVII is the equivalent of $35,000 us bucks!:eek:

The STI will probably sold in very limited quantities so no matter what the price they will go very quickly.

UK prices don't compare to US prices. The British get completely ripped off.

carpoint.com lists WRX base at $23,995
carview.msn.co.uk lists WRX base at £21,495

carview.msn.co.uk lists EVO VII GSR at £30,995

If you use the same ratio you get US$34,599 for the EVO VII GSR

Probably not too far off what we'll see here.

They don't list the STi yet.

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Applying some maths and real data (from www.subaru.ch):

WRX: SFr 40,900
WRX STi: SFr 45,725 (+11.2%)
WRX STi Prodrive: SFr 49,907 (+22.0%)

Applying the same relative prices:

WRX: $24,520
WRX STi: $27,413
WRX STi Prodrive: $29,920

All prices exclude taxes. Of course things could be completely different in the US, but using prices from Europe is probably the best we can do to get an estimate.

I think this more or less answers the question of the 'when' on the STi (ref. Car & Driver)-

http://www.kipanderson.net/STi.jpg

Originally posted by ChrisW
I would stop guessing and have the moderators put this thread in the right forum.

if/when the STI gets here, the only thing we know is that it will be more expensive than the WRX

Amen to that.

Ok the sti will definatly be more than 30k.
I spent 30K on my car, to get all the options: spoiler, suspension, exhaust, guages, carbonfiber trim, shift knob, shortthrow. Ok then i got 17s and tires, now your lookin at another 1500. Then you look at the sti, its gonna have nice 17s stock pluse like all the crap i put in my car :) And very limited production.

It will be more than 30k

I agree. Even with the Lancer EVO to compete with likely at a slightly lower price, I'm betting Subaru will be sticking to the idea that there will Subaru drivers and Mitsubishi drivers, and a price war between the two makers won't change any minds, just reduce profits. I often have to put on the hip waders at my own speculations however.:D

Well all of the news points to a sub 30k base price for the evo7. I think the Mitsu is going to make the car cheaper and force subaru to go into price wars, but when the wrx is already 24-27 with good options, mitsu is going to win. So if subaru brings a sti here, it would have to have a base msrp of 30k, although to my knowledge the sti comes pretty much loaded. There will still be lots of people buying wrx's because most people cant afford the 30k mark. I would assume the allotment would be very limited making dealers gouge, so after all is said and done, i would guess 35 grand. Although if the evo comes in full form and the sti only comes in the uk sti form of 264 hp, then you can bet there will be some interesting things said about subaru. IMHO i dont feel the sti is worth 35, 30, yea, but then again insurance on both of these cars is going to be freaking outrageous, so why not buy a wrx, mod it and have cheaper insurance with sti performance, although without the 6 speed, vvt, dual limited slip, and suspension tweaking. I think the wrx is over priced too, base should be around 22 and making out no more than 28. If you go to subaru.com you can put options on that thing making it around 33 grand. Stupid i think. Its most definately not worth that.

In switzerland an WRX is about 24000$ us and the STi is about 29500$ us.
It's worth it if you want to upgrade a WRX to STi specs it will cosr you much more.

How the heck did this spring back up, and why is it in FFI forum?

I think this forum is appropriate for the discussion, as it relates to the cost of upgrading a WRX vs. the cost of an STi or Lancer EVO. There are allot of people who wouldn't mind foregoing the STi if their WRXs can be modified to a comparable state for similar or less money.

IMO, for the serious DIY'er, exceeding the STi spec. would not be a problem at the projected STi cost. But I'm talking about folks who don't mind fabricating a part here or there. Otherwise, I think it would be more practical to just get an STi to start with if for no other reason than warranty. Fortunately I consider myself to be in the former camp. And as I already posess a WRX, won't be handing a dealer any more of my hard earned money any time soon if I can help it. :)

Originally posted by gtr
"you can't compare type RA vs EVO GSR, Type ra compares with EVO RS" Anyways i'm talking about gsr vs evo x.

Hmm... interesting comment.

The STi RA already CANNOT keep up with the Evo GSR, let alone an Evo RS.

Best Motoring of Japan did some tests: STi RA vs. Evo GSR vs. Evo RS. Evo RS wins everything hands down.

On the track, the Evo RS is fastest among all (all = NSX Type R, RX-7 Type RZ, Evo 7 GSR, Evo 6 TME).

Oh by the way, if 2003 indeed is the date of arrival for the US release, expect Evo 8/9 (with GDI turbo engine and 6-speed) and STi Version 2/3 by then :)

I read somewhere (please CORRECT me if I'm dead wrong) that Mitsubishi developed the current Evo 7 as a base for the new WRCar (weird, since it's done very badly), while a "true" road car of the Evolution series would be the Evo 8.

I have posted this before about the STi. If you get one, and have a problem with say a sti only part like the different engine parts or the nice 6 speed. How long do you think you'll have to wait to get parts when the car is a limited production run. I'll take my wrx this april and be very happy with it. The difference in isnsurace alone is a good reason to be happy with a wrx. Its a great car.

Keep in mind the conditions the subaru will have to contend with in developing the car for the american market: poor gas, poor drivers, sue happy people, tinkerers with no clue what to do, warranty claims up the kazoo, etc.

It would be far easier to sell a conversion kit for the current wrx. If subaru got smarter about it I think they would do well to set up shop ala TRD back when they were smart about aftermarket and get away from the dealer distribution network for aftermarket. (Right now anything TRD is about as iinteresting as a door stop.)

Just thoughts...

I read somewhere, maybe even subaru's website that the MSRP was going to be $34K in the US. But no one will really know until one shows up on a lot somewhere. At 34k I dont think I would buy an STI. I'd rather buy a WRX for 24K put 10K worth of upgrades in it and have a car thats about 10 times better than the STI. Just my opinion.

I don't know how many times I am going to have to say this, but evidence (read: other prices from around the world) say that the STi commands 20-25% more than the WRX. That gives you a range of:

28800 to 30000. Let's say we get really unlucky unlike the rest of the world and they go 30% from WRX.

The total range would then be:

28800-31200

I am going to say this yet again: the price will be 30K, give or take a couple of thousand. :)

Anybody who uses this approach below to what the STi will cost:

Well, dude, like it costs 15,000-20,000 just for the parts to convert a WRX to a STi, so itz gonna cost 40,000+!

Are using flawed logic IMNSHO. I would put my bottom dollar on the fact that it proably costs Subaru 1/3rd as much or less extra to "make" an STi. Damn, were down in that 30,000 dollar range again, wonder why.. :)

Anybody given thought to the fact that this might be sort of an image car to Subaru? To bring people to the brand? Well, they could sell the damn thing for .01 cent over thier cost and still have it contribute to thier bottom line, both in sales and other measures. Simply accounting/marketing coming into play here.

And for those Supply/Demand folks: (I'm going to hate I am saying this) It's still a Subaru. They won't be able to sell them in the 35,000 to 40,000 range.

This is all my very humble, but reasearched opinion. Only when SOA releases the true price that we will pay, will we know the true price. This is just the best I can do with all the research I've done and evidence I have gathered. :)

JJ
www.imprezawrxsti.com
All STi, All The Time

I am guessing 35 to 42k, but thats just my .02 cents.

I doubt that. They rather strip it down that haveing a price range close to a vette. It'll probablay be aroudn 30k to compete against the new 350z and rx8. All i know is that evo is cheaper and i'm probably getting an evo since it's arriving first :D. Hopefully it's an evo8 with bumpers to match the japanese evo8. Sorry, subaru too slow! I've would of bought a sti last year if it came out with the wrx.

Based on the facts that most decision are made by upper mgmt, and n market research. I think that the pricing and quantity of available EVO could be the determining factor for SOA.

If the real EVO shows up so will the real STI. But is a EVX or what even name they choose :eek shows up then we might never see the real STI.

A full blown EVO will be an insurance nighmare, so I don't think Mistu gonna bring in more then 5,000 of them. The sad facts is
most mean GT got kill in the late 90's cause of insurance rates.

So AOS will follow Mitsu and make the STI short supply and in demand. Nissan might do the same with the Skyline GT-R coupe if they can sell a bunch of slower Skyline 4 doors.

Just my 2 cents.

my guess is they make the STi around 250-255hp. they will probably take the WRX and reprogram the ECU, upgrade the exhaust, upgrade intercooler piping, induction kit. As for looks, maybe offer the WRC headlights, new spoiler, new tires/rims, higher hood scoop, hopefully 6-speed, minor interior changes. Any more than that, and youre looking at spending 30k+ for the car. I don't think many people would be willing to shell out BMW/S4 money. Just mod the regular WRX IMO

stevo

Originally posted by WrxSPD
The sad facts is
most mean GT got kill in the late 90's cause of insurance rates.

Not entirely true. One of the most important factors was the exchange rate. Cars that started out at 30-35k in 90-93 (300zx, Rx-7, Supra, etc.) were pushing or over 50k by the time they were killed. And the market for 50k+ sports cars is/was a lot smaller than the market for ~30k ones.

The insurance rates got so high because so few cars were sold and parts were relatively expensive to get, again because of the exchange rate.

Didn't mean to get off on a tangent there. If the Evo shows up under 35k, there will be a white one in my parking spot. Now, if they only come out with a 600 hp Gran Turismo model...

gtr you traitor. ;)

My guess is we'll get the euro spec STi minus perhaps the seats and a few other things (Brembos or intercooler waterspray perhaps). Why go through all the time and effort of specifically engineering a car like that if you can't capitalize on economies of scale? I bet that engine designed to meet Euro emissions requirements passes the US ones by a mile. The design spec for it probably, coincidentally, included 5 mph bumpers.

It already looks liek Mitsubishi is going to bring in the EVO. There are going to be a bunch of $30,000 high performance cars coming in.

The new Nissan 350 ZX is supposed to be faster than the old 300ZX and cost only $30,000. The RX-8 is going to be in that range. Most likely there willbe an RSX type R.

What we really need is a sports car/coupe version of the STi or WRX with 270 HP and weighing 300-500 lbs less.

I had an RX-7 Twin Turbo. Shortly after they came out, a bunch of origianl owners sold them with about 5,000 miles on them. There were two reasons: 1) It had terrible tires and was really easy to lose in the rain with light throttle application (speaks from experience) and 2) It had more performance than the non-dedicated driver coud handle. (THe WRX may be fast, but it is not explosive like the RX-7).

Another thing that killed the 300ZX/RX-7/VR4 where the high costs of maintaining really complicated engines. The RX-7 neeed induction hoses with depressing frequency becuase of the heat in the engine compartment. $200 for a hose plus labor was nto uncommon. To remove and replace the induction system was 5 hours labor.

Conclusion: for the STi to be successfull here, it will have to have about 260-270 HP and sell for $30,000. That means giving up Brembo brakes and aluminium suspension parts. The extra turbo will eat up most of the difference in cost.

If Subaru attempts to market an "STI" without the true STI motor internals, regardless of its state of tune in stock form, the car will be rejected by enthusiasts. They will just modify their WRX. A 6-speed and better brakes would not be enough to get folks to move from their WRXs, many of which will already have been modified, to an STI. At least I wouldn't.

Originally posted by TypeC
we know we aren't getting any cool Brembo brakes, or any sort of recaros! What car has made it over with those (that are under $70K)?
-C
Old Gen II Jetta GLX's came with Recaro's:D