I have a 2.2 turbo block I plan to build into a stroker street/race motor. What heads should I use? Should I use the computer from the 2.2 or should I use the computer from the head donor car?

well what are your exspectations for this engine? 400hp, 500hp 1400hp :devil: ...... what turbo are you looking at?

ya man you gots to gives us guidelines, and your goals.

~Josh~

I was thinking gt35r turbo?, lots of boost, redline over 6.5k in a lightweight car. Car wont be driven everyday, but I want it to be reliable. Suggestions?

i would use some wrx or sti heads, but your going to need titanium valve springs and retainers for over 6.5K redline. use your stock EM unless you want to go stand-alone. you get more tuning options w/ stand-alone, but its a little more out of pocket for you. whats your budget?

~Josh~

i would use some wrx or sti heads, but your going to need titanium valve springs and retainers for over 6.5K redline. use your stock EM unless you want to go stand-alone. you get more tuning options w/ stand-alone, but its a little more out of pocket for you. whats your budget?

~Josh~

WRX redline is 7k, unless your going more then that theres really no need for springs...... WRX heads flow about 800cfm or about 53lb/min which is roughly 530 crank hp......

ps- i rev my wrx to 7k everyday going to school.... stock engine internals... no problems with the valvetrain yet....

but your going to need titanium valve springs and retainers for over 6.5K redline.

http://project802.net/personal/gallery/albums/other_stuff/icon_bloated.gif

Thats just bad advice. The stock valvetrain for either the WRX or STi heads can handle more than that by far.

I think I would like to see 8-9k rpm without problems,at least something over stock. Are STI heads the best flowing heads out there? If I use STI heads, do I need an STI ecu, or will a WRX one work? Will the ecu from the 2.2 motor work? Probably go Ecuteck, stand alone is not in the budget. Trying not to spend alot of money but am slowly collecting parts.

how are you building the stroker? it's my understand, cause i looked into doing it, that if you use the 79mm crank, that you have wicked clearn issues. you eaither need shortened rods, or short pistons. i believe crawford sells the short pistons you need, as they offer this block in stroked form. i'm kinda interested in doing a ej257 with sti75mm crank. i think that would be a wicked, high redline motor. just watch out for side loading. maybe rund and extra long rod or something?

From the Top:

If your starting with a 2.2 turbo closed deck block you need the following to complete a stroker build:

Phase I DOHC Crank
Phase I DOHC Rods
Wiseco Pistons: K602M975 -

Summit Racing

$433.69

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=partdetail.asp&part=WIS-K602M975&N=400007+310222&autoview=sku

Brand: Wiseco Piston
Product Line: Wiseco Sport Compact Piston and Ring Kits
Bore (in): 3.838
Bore (mm): 97.50
Piston Material: Forged aluminum
Piston Style: Dish
Compression Distance (in): 1.191
Dish Volume (cc): 24.00
Wrist Pin Style: Press fit or floating
Pin Diameter (in): 0.9055
Gapless: No
File Fit: No
Top Ring Thickness: 1.0mm
Top Ring Material: Steel
Top Ring Facing Material: Moly
Second Ring Thickness: 1.2mm
Second Ring Material: Iron
Second Ring Facing Material: Moly
Oil Ring Thickness: 2.8mm
Oil Ring Material: Stainless steel
Oil Ring Tension: Standard
Quantity: Sold as a set of 4.
Pistons and Rings, Forged Aluminum, Dish Top, 97.50mm Bore, Subaru, 2.2L, H4, Set

These pistons are custom designed for a 2.2 turbo with Phase I Rods and Crank as well as DOHC Heads. For $430 you can't really beat it.

I would highly suggest trying to find a used complete 2.5 DOHC Phase I motor that you can use crank/rods as well as the heads from. These heads will roll to 7k rpms or probably close to 9k with a $500 spring and retainer upgrade. + they flow as well as WRX heads.

As far as computer management if your car is a 95 or older absolutely no decision to make, standalone is your single best options. If its an OBD-II car that you will be subject to port scans consider something like the Greddy Emanage Ultimate. Get some fat injectors

Thanks for the info MY99! I have stock size(2.0) forged crank and rods. Was gonna bore the block a little so I dont know, I might need custom pistons. Although, I had another post on this and Quirt suggested using an STI crank....hmmmm.

do you know what CR those pistons would give a sohc/ej22t stroker hybrid? i heard thats phast I blocks will accept phase II crank, as long as you also use phase II rods, is this true? are the wrist pins different between phases I and II?

bump please...?

Benson, IIRC the stock crank is 79mm. If I was to venture a guess, I wouldnt think that aftermarket pistons designed speciffically for a certain turbo motor would change the c.r. Try contacting Quirt from Crawford, he knows his s--t.

i'm pretty sure that the new pistons would change the CR, but anyways, i meant the change from dohc to sohc. the pistons were made for that motor with dohc, i was wondering the CR with sohc.

This is great information and just what I was looking for, but one question remains. The head you are using forthe most part determines your c/r as noted, but how would you determine what that would be. I have ej22 w/2002 WRX heads and pretty much all the necessary internals, but my CP pistons didn't work out. So, I wonder what c/r that kit would leave me with.....


Plus, I take it that the kit is for overbore? Stock is 96.9mm/~8.315" bore.

From the Top:

If your starting with a 2.2 turbo closed deck block you need the following to complete a stroker build:

Phase I DOHC Crank
Phase I DOHC Rods
Wiseco Pistons: K602M975 -

Summit Racing

$433.69

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=partdetail.asp&part=WIS-K602M975&N=400007+310222&autoview=sku

Brand: Wiseco Piston
Product Line: Wiseco Sport Compact Piston and Ring Kits
Bore (in): 3.838
Bore (mm): 97.50
Piston Material: Forged aluminum
Piston Style: Dish
Compression Distance (in): 1.191
Dish Volume (cc): 24.00
Wrist Pin Style: Press fit or floating
Pin Diameter (in): 0.9055
Gapless: No
File Fit: No
Top Ring Thickness: 1.0mm
Top Ring Material: Steel
Top Ring Facing Material: Moly
Second Ring Thickness: 1.2mm
Second Ring Material: Iron
Second Ring Facing Material: Moly
Oil Ring Thickness: 2.8mm
Oil Ring Material: Stainless steel
Oil Ring Tension: Standard
Quantity: Sold as a set of 4.
Pistons and Rings, Forged Aluminum, Dish Top, 97.50mm Bore, Subaru, 2.2L, H4, Set

These pistons are custom designed for a 2.2 turbo with Phase I Rods and Crank as well as DOHC Heads. For $430 you can't really beat it.

I would highly suggest trying to find a used complete 2.5 DOHC Phase I motor that you can use crank/rods as well as the heads from. These heads will roll to 7k rpms or probably close to 9k with a $500 spring and retainer upgrade. + they flow as well as WRX heads.

As far as computer management if your car is a 95 or older absolutely no decision to make, standalone is your single best options. If its an OBD-II car that you will be subject to port scans consider something like the Greddy Emanage Ultimate. Get some fat injectors

there's a formula for figuring out R, but i can't recal it off the top of my head. but you have to know everything; piston cc, head cc, bore, stroke, head gasket thickness, i think that's it. i think it's borei think, you figure out the cylinder volume ( bore x stroke), the nconvert to cc's, then figure headgasket volume(bore x gasket thickness) convert to cc's, then you do cylinder volume+HG volume+piston volume+head volume Divided by HG volume+piston volume+head volume. I'll double check on that though.

are these pistons any good for the setup MY99 2.5GT posted?
Ross pistons (http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=2141&)

From the Top:

If your starting with a 2.2 turbo closed deck block you need the following to complete a stroker build:

Phase I DOHC Crank
Phase I DOHC Rods
Wiseco Pistons: K602M975 -

Summit Racing

$433.69

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=partdetail.asp&part=WIS-K602M975&N=400007+310222&autoview=sku

Brand: Wiseco Piston
Product Line: Wiseco Sport Compact Piston and Ring Kits
Bore (in): 3.838
Bore (mm): 97.50
Piston Material: Forged aluminum
Piston Style: Dish
Compression Distance (in): 1.191
Dish Volume (cc): 24.00
Wrist Pin Style: Press fit or floating
Pin Diameter (in): 0.9055
Gapless: No
File Fit: No
Top Ring Thickness: 1.0mm
Top Ring Material: Steel
Top Ring Facing Material: Moly
Second Ring Thickness: 1.2mm
Second Ring Material: Iron
Second Ring Facing Material: Moly
Oil Ring Thickness: 2.8mm
Oil Ring Material: Stainless steel
Oil Ring Tension: Standard
Quantity: Sold as a set of 4.
Pistons and Rings, Forged Aluminum, Dish Top, 97.50mm Bore, Subaru, 2.2L, H4, Set

These pistons are custom designed for a 2.2 turbo with Phase I Rods and Crank as well as DOHC Heads. For $430 you can't really beat it.

I would highly suggest trying to find a used complete 2.5 DOHC Phase I motor that you can use crank/rods as well as the heads from. These heads will roll to 7k rpms or probably close to 9k with a $500 spring and retainer upgrade. + they flow as well as WRX heads.

As far as computer management if your car is a 95 or older absolutely no decision to make, standalone is your single best options. If its an OBD-II car that you will be subject to port scans consider something like the Greddy Emanage Ultimate. Get some fat injectors


A friend of mine is doing this right now, but he and I were wondering about the SOHC vs the DOHC crank and rods, and it turns out Wiseco's pistons for the 2.2 hybrid are made for the SOHC crank and rods, just compare the stroke and the rod length and you will see what I am talking about.

As for the DOHC heads, I'm pretty sure you'd need to upgrade shims etc to get these heads to go above 7krpms, and these heads are about the size of the legacy turbo heads (notoriously not-so-good heads). So, it would be more of a benefit to go with the SOHC heads and just upgrade the springs and retainers, instead of the springs/retainers/shims for DOHC heads.

Nick

PS- The compression of a 2.2 block with WRX or SOHC 2.5 heads is about 7.6:1, actually very good for high high boost, friend of mine has one with WRX heads that still has a surprising amount of torque even off boost.

Just to clear things up with peoples theories on valvetrain. (wrx and STI)
-you need to upgrade springs (not titanium springs) if you have high lift cams or are revving past 7500rpms or so.
-you can use shims to marginally bump up pressure, but when doing this you need to check for coil bind of the valvesprings when using stock or highlift cams (depending on how thick of shim you use)
-The idea with springs is to use the lightest spring possible without the risk of floating a valve and obviously not bind the coils.
Heavier spring than needed= more friction on your roatating assembly
To light of spring= risking the chance of floating a valve.. which can kill an engine really fast.

"A friend of mine is doing this right now, but he and I were wondering about the SOHC vs the DOHC crank and rods, and it turns out Wiseco's pistons for the 2.2 hybrid are made for the SOHC crank and rods, just compare the stroke and the rod length and you will see what I am talking about."

Wow-So your saying the notation on Wiseco's site is wrong about these pistons:

http://www.wiseco.com/PDFs/Catalogs/SC06_Subaru.pdf

Regarding the Heads check out Matt Monsons post about floating valves and what RPMs you can run to with these without replacing anything.

According to EJ Calcs the 2.5 DOHC heads are 6cc bigger then the 2.2t.

http://www.wac.addr.com/auto/obs/turbo/ejcalcs.html

Basically if you calculate up the cost it will be cheaper if you happen to already have DOHC 2.5 heads to go with my combo and have minor port work done that will blow away any of Subaru's stock heads compared to doing a full SOHC conversion.

The Wiseco's I'm using are designed for a .020" overbore.

By the way the big difference between the Phase I EJ25 DOHC crank and the Phase II EJ25 SOHC crank are the Rod seats. The measurements are here:

http://www.pauter.com/subaru.htm

Are your comments from experience? I find it really weird that all of the published information says otherwise.

Brad

As well If I remember right one of the EJ25s is an interferance motor. I think its the DOHC. If this really is the case the valve reliefs will be different between the DOHC and SOHC pistons making them in-compatable.

The Wiseco's I'm using are designed for a .020" overbore.
Brad
so the link to the wiseco's are .020" overbore or did you special ordered yours .020" over?

Nope they only sell them .020" over and .040" over.

The consenses has been that .020" will leave you with enough cylinder wall thickness to not compromise strength and durability. However .040" over is a little too much. I guess you could do it if you re-sleeved.

General rule of thumb is that you always want to at least hone when you replace pistons. The cast iron sleeves had a little bit of rust on them. Not enough to bubble up but good surface rust. I didn't want to take any chances by just honing. As well since it doesn't compromise strength or durability I figured why not go .020 over. Pricing for overbore is only a few $ more then honing.

Brad

cool, it looks like i will be getting these pistons.
i e-mailed crawford about custom pistons and they quoted me $667 for pistons w/pins.
no coating and no rings 5-6 week turn around.

"A friend of mine is doing this right now, but he and I were wondering about the SOHC vs the DOHC crank and rods, and it turns out Wiseco's pistons for the 2.2 hybrid are made for the SOHC crank and rods, just compare the stroke and the rod length and you will see what I am talking about."

Wow-So your saying the notation on Wiseco's site is wrong about these pistons:

http://www.wiseco.com/PDFs/Catalogs/SC06_Subaru.pdf

Regarding the Heads check out Matt Monsons post about floating valves and what RPMs you can run to with these without replacing anything.

According to EJ Calcs the 2.5 DOHC heads are 6cc bigger then the 2.2t.

http://www.wac.addr.com/auto/obs/turbo/ejcalcs.html

Basically if you calculate up the cost it will be cheaper if you happen to already have DOHC 2.5 heads to go with my combo and have minor port work done that will blow away any of Subaru's stock heads compared to doing a full SOHC conversion.

The Wiseco's I'm using are designed for a .020" overbore.

By the way the big difference between the Phase I EJ25 DOHC crank and the Phase II EJ25 SOHC crank are the Rod seats. The measurements are here:

http://www.pauter.com/subaru.htm

Are your comments from experience? I find it really weird that all of the published information says otherwise.

Brad

According to that PDF from wiseco's website the DOHC and SOHC crank and rods have the same dimensions. Therefore it shouldn't matter which you use.

Also I was referring to old information of Wisecos that stated the rod length on the DOHC was 5.167 not 5.181, and in that same article it stated the hybrid motor as having 5.181 rods.

http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/wiseco/apps-Subaru.html

Sorry if my information wasn't 100% accurate, I was just trying to give sound advice based on Wiseco's information.

Nick