We at Crawford Performance have been working on an effective way to deal with this issue for some time now. Through street and track testing, we have created an air / oil separator that has reduced oil consumption to an acceptable level on our test vehicles. On the street, we are seeing no need to add oil between oil changes and at the recent Time Attack we attended with an R4 / CP35R powered STI there was also no need to add oil during the two day event.

Here is a link to information about our new CP Air / Oil Separator: http://www.crawfordperformance.com/products/db_part_info.cgi?id=156

Thanks,

Quirt Crawford
www.crawfordperformance.com

$350......you have to be crazy. I could go to a machine shop and have one made out of billet for that price

I agree, the price is a tad bit on the high side. Most likely you are paying for the engineering that went inside the aluminum can.

Thats is bit much

You mean no more pulling motors that eat 1 quart every 100 miles?

Oil catch can?

But, but, it has a drain line!

I like it, but it's not $350 worth of liking.

Very well-designed product.

$275
http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/wrx/intake/complete1.jpg


$350
http://www.crawfordperformance.com/products/images/air_oil_seperator_02.jpg

Are you having an oil consumption issue with your motor?

funny you should ask.

And I thought my AVO catch can was expensive!

It looks good.. can we start a group buy and all chip in for one?
Us NASIOC members can share!

Does $350 include a happy ending?

Frank

Are you having an oil consumption issue with your motor?

funny you should ask.

I was hoping you would show up.....thought you of all people would appreciate this.

$275
http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/wrx/intake/complete1.jpg


$350
http://www.crawfordperformance.com/products/images/air_oil_seperator_02.jpg



Priceless

thankyou crawford, for designing another product for us Suby owners. pretty soon were gonna run out of vendors on NASIOC if we keep treating people like pure crap.

i have ZERO oil consumption with my STi. it is stock internals only at stg 2 granted. so i wont need your kit. but anyway. its good to see development on things to combat our problems with our cars.

Yeah, yeah, i know....your gonna say THEY cause ALL your problems.

I'm confused, is this just a catch can like all other catch cans, or is there something better about this one?

It sounds like an oil catch can with a $240 rubbe oil return line on it...

I'm confused, is this just a catch can like all other catch cans, or is there something better about this one?

Sorry for the confusion. No, this is not a catch can as it does not "catch" the oil and store it out side of your motor untill you drain the catch can.
A catch can that is vented back to your intake will fill your intercooler and intake system with oil causing detonation and a loss of oil. Its hard to say what takes the rod bearings out first, the det or the lack of oil?

Quirt Crawford
www.crawfordperformance.com

thankyou crawford, for designing another product for us Suby owners. pretty soon were gonna run out of vendors on NASIOC if we keep treating people like pure crap.

i have ZERO oil consumption with my STi. it is stock internals only at stg 2 granted. so i wont need your kit. but anyway. its good to see development on things to combat our problems with our cars.

Yeah, yeah, i know....your gonna say THEY cause ALL your problems.

You are quite welcome :)

Thanks for the kind and "oh so true" words ;)

Quirt Crawford
Crawford Performance

Subscribed in case price goes down some!

$350 for glorified catch can? :confused: you can dyi for less then $100, heck go all out on it, have it pro welded and powder coated and you will still spend less then $200.

Is it safe to assume this will not fit with a TMIC?

Good looking product. Have any pics of it installed?

I'm an idiot, here's more pics: http://www.crawfordperformance.com/products/db_imgview.cgi?linkID=156

This is a good addition to go with your "bobblehead" piston.

Can you post install/routing pictures? Where does an oil return line go?

$275
http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/wrx/intake/complete1.jpg



Where for 275? Know anyone that has any in stock...Me likes

I would never have cluttered a thread in the Vendor Announcements forum with pictures from another vendor but it was originaly posted in the 2.5 forum. I'm going to report my own post and respectfully ask the mods to clean this thread up so Crawford can focus on answering questions about their product.

I would never have cluttered a thread in the Vendor Announcements forum with pictures from another vendor but it was originaly posted in the 2.5 forum. I'm going to report my own post and respectfully ask the mods to clean this thread up so Crawford can focus on answering questions about their product.


The last thing i would say is that you were the issue here...Your post was OK, and everyone else has enough to say already.

Let me throw in my .02...

An "oil seperator" is what they call this piece...

Im curious, from what i know about how a catch can works, it moves your oil breathers away from the intake and has them flow thru a container that retains the liquid that is tranfered thru vapors in the catch reservoir to be drained at a later time. Basically seperationg the oil and air right?

So how is this different? I would like a response from Crawford because there has to be something that makes this better than just a catch can other than just the oil going back into the engine automatically...Also, if the oil drain is connected to the engine also, wouldn't crank case pressure back flow thru the catch tank back into the breathers?

Is it safe to assume this will not fit with a TMIC?

Thats correct, they end up living in the same place.

Quirt

Let me throw in my .02...

An "oil seperator" is what they call this piece...

Im curious, from what i know about how a catch can works, it moves your oil breathers away from the intake and has them flow thru a container that retains the liquid that is tranfered thru vapors in the catch reservoir to be drained at a later time. Basically seperationg the oil and air right?

So how is this different? I would like a response from Crawford because there has to be something that makes this better than just a catch can other than just the oil going back into the engine automatically...Also, if the oil drain is connected to the engine also, wouldn't crank case pressure back flow thru the catch tank back into the breathers?

If the catch cans on the market were an effective air/oil seperator, you would not be getting oil into your intake system from your catch can. So basically the catch cans are not seperating all the oil from the air.

What makes our air / oil seperator different is that it dose remove all the oil from the air, leaving you with a dry intake system. It also is not an oil resivor that collects the oil from your motor, like a catch can does. When your motor is low on oil and your catch can is full, this does not mean that your motor is damaged, It means that you have chosen to supply a resivor that the oil from your motor can flow into. This lack of oil in your motor will defiantly lead to motor damage though.

Back pressure through the air / oil seperator is defiantly an issue. That is why it took us many months to create a system that actually works ;)

Thanks for the good questions :)

Quirt

Could you please answer the question though? I understand that an air/oil separator runs vapors through a filter, forwarding cleaned air back to intake and re-routing oil to the engine. BUT, I have no idea where you could run an oil return line to. Is it some proprietary information that you cannon disclose?

Looking at the pic below, it looks like the oil return may be plumbed into the turbo oil return line, but the return line is hidden so it's hard to tell.

Too bad you need a FMIC to run it, I imagine that there's a lot of people with TMICs that would be interested in this product. It's the best way to vent the crankcase. You get a clean intake tract and reduce oil consumption.

http://www.crawfordperformance.com/products/images/air_oil_seperator_01.jpg

i was checking those out at the redline time attack, and was gonna ask what they were! looks good to me! be nice to retain a tmic though?

I would consider purchase if could be used with a TMIC.

Where for 275? Know anyone that has any in stock...Me likes

Gruppe-S

bump for tmic version to be made

Here’s a link to more results from a race car using our air/oil separator; http://www.crawfordperformance.com/results/db_part_info.cgi?id=18 The car was driven four hours to the track then raced for three days and another four hour drive back to the shop. The oil consumption for this entire event was 1/8th of a quart.

www.i-speed.us
www.crawfordperformance.com

So is there any special design on the inside of the can or is teh key the proper routing of the hoses?

When I was looking into catch cans, I almost bought a closed-loop air/oil separator designed for aviation applications. It looks very similar to the Crawford piece. If you think the Crawford unit is expensive, try looking at the aviation separators. ;) Either way, an air/oil separator is a different animal than a simple catch can. A cut-away view of the Crawford 'can' would most likely show this (although I doubt that they will give away their design that easily).
In the end, I chose to modify my catch cans with internal baffles to promote better separation and keep the valve cover vents isolated from the crank vent. However, if my engineering time was money I'm sure they would be worth more than $350.

So is there any special design on the inside of the can or is teh key the proper routing of the hoses?

We tried many configurations inside the can before we came up with a system that worked on the street and the track.

Thanks :)

got one will let you know how it works!

We tried many configurations inside the can before we came up with a system that worked on the street and the track.

Thanks :)

Ha. Cyclone separator. It's about time. Although pricey.

OK as I mentioned above I got a Crawford air/oil separator and here is my own experience with the product:

prior to installing this part I had 1 oil catch can that was of an old design which had an air filter on it, under hard driving conditions oil would splash out through the air filter and make a mess inside the engine compartment on the side the can was mounted on! The car had the tell tail sign of blow-by smoke out of the exhaust on start up and under acceleration even under normal driving conditions (keeping boost under 1 bar) car would consume 1/4 - 1/2 quart of oil every two days, if driven hard 1.5 bar (race map) it would require 1/2 quart!!

After doing some research I choose to go with the product offered by Crawford since it only made sense that the oil would be routed back in the engine!

I ordered the separator through one of Crawford's vendors and installed per the supplied instructions!

The oil consumption has dramatically diminished, under normal driving conditions boosting 1 bar there is no oil consumption! during spirited driving 1.5 bar still requires a bit of oil to be added but nothing like before!

Overall I am very satisfied with this product!

was the $350 worth it......in my opinion......ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!

Demis

OK...you are killing me...I want to see what is inside it....arghhh......someone buy one and let me cut it open....I promise to weld it back together :)

OK as I mentioned above I got a Crawford air/oil separator and here is my own experience with the product:

prior to installing this part I had 1 oil catch can that was of an old design which had an air filter on it, under hard driving conditions oil would splash out through the air filter and make a mess inside the engine compartment on the side the can was mounted on! The car had the tell tail sign of blow-by smoke out of the exhaust on start up and under acceleration even under normal driving conditions (keeping boost under 1 bar) car would consume 1/4 - 1/2 quart of oil every two days, if driven hard 1.5 bar (race map) it would require 1/2 quart!!

After doing some research I choose to go with the product offered by Crawford since it only made sense that the oil would be routed back in the engine!

I ordered the separator through one of Crawford's vendors and installed per the supplied instructions!

The oil consumption has dramatically diminished, under normal driving conditions boosting 1 bar there is no oil consumption! during spirited driving 1.5 bar still requires a bit of oil to be added but nothing like before!

Overall I am very satisfied with this product!

was the $350 worth it......in my opinion......ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!

Demis

Thanks for giving it a try,,,,,and the informative write up :)

Venting a catch can to the atmosphere on a turbo car is probably gonna make oil come out of it...
Rings will seal better with the crankcase gases going back into the intake.


www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ep/airoilseparators.html
Suddenly the airplane separators seem cheap?

www.freepatentsonline.com/4269607.html
Copy this?

www.diesel-central.com/News/OilAirSeparator.htm
google for info about diesel truck separators...


http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_1101/article.html
been around since Sept. '01...
http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/article.html?&A=0338
you gotta subscribe


Ghetto/DIY method is to use a water separator for an air compressor...

OK as I mentioned above I got a Crawford air/oil separator and here is my own experience with the product:

prior to installing this part I had 1 oil catch can that was of an old design which had an air filter on it, under hard driving conditions oil would splash out through the air filter and make a mess inside the engine compartment on the side the can was mounted on! The car had the tell tail sign of blow-by smoke out of the exhaust on start up and under acceleration even under normal driving conditions (keeping boost under 1 bar) car would consume 1/4 - 1/2 quart of oil every two days, if driven hard 1.5 bar (race map) it would require 1/2 quart!!

After doing some research I choose to go with the product offered by Crawford since it only made sense that the oil would be routed back in the engine!

I ordered the separator through one of Crawford's vendors and installed per the supplied instructions!

The oil consumption has dramatically diminished, under normal driving conditions boosting 1 bar there is no oil consumption! during spirited driving 1.5 bar still requires a bit of oil to be added but nothing like before!

Overall I am very satisfied with this product!

was the $350 worth it......in my opinion......ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!

Demis

Can you please, for the last time, tell us where the oil line returns the oil back to the motor?

Also, If you have ever seem the oil that fills up in a catch can, its pretty dirty and seems like it has more than just oil in. It seems like a mixture of gas, oil and water vapor. Is it really healthy for the motor to have that kind of fluid going back into it? The reason I ask is because if I do a fresh oil change and drive my car hard it does fill th ecatch can pretty quickly. I check the oil on the dip stick to see how low it is and while checking it I see that the oil on the stick is very clean, like new. But the oil in the catch can is already black after only a few miles of driving with the new oil. Seems like it may be contaminated from gas and or moisture. Again, Im just trying to get a feel on everyones opinion to see if it is OK to pit that dirty oil back into the motor?

Dave

Can you please, for the last time, tell us where the oil line returns the oil back to the motor?

Also, If you have ever seem the oil that fills up in a catch can, its pretty dirty and seems like it has more than just oil in. It seems like a mixture of gas, oil and water vapor. Is it really healthy for the motor to have that kind of fluid going back into it? The reason I ask is because if I do a fresh oil change and drive my car hard it does fill th ecatch can pretty quickly. I check the oil on the dip stick to see how low it is and while checking it I see that the oil on the stick is very clean, like new. But the oil in the catch can is already black after only a few miles of driving with the new oil. Seems like it may be contaminated from gas and or moisture. Again, Im just trying to get a feel on everyones opinion to see if it is OK to pit that dirty oil back into the motor?

Dave
I'm bumping this because I've got the same issues and the same concerns about this oil seperator as Dave. Can anyone comment on the oil return location? What about the effects of polluting the oil w/ blowby?

I'm running an STI block w/ WRX heads, and I can pump 2 quarts of oil out of my motor into my catch cans in about 5 minutes at the track... I need a real solution!

Crawford Performance,

I emailed you yesterday to sales@crawford......about this product.

thanks quirt,

I'll take one for 150.00 usd :) At that price you could sell a lot..

Does anyone know anything about the oil return line? Crawford doesn't seem to want to comment. Am I going to have to drop the oil pan and weld a bung in there or what?

Edit: Also, what are the diameter of the hoses used? 1/2"? I've got an sti block/wrx heads hybrid and I've got issues w/ getting the crank to breath through the puny little 1/8" hoses the factory uses. I've gone to 1/2" hoses recently, and I'm *still* blowing a ton of oil under heavy latteral G's. I'd really like to use a 3/4" hose straight off the 3/4" CCV to a separator can... but it looks like the Crawford can uses 1/2" hoses or smaller.

Can you please, for the last time, tell us where the oil line returns the oil back to the motor?

Also, If you have ever seem the oil that fills up in a catch can, its pretty dirty and seems like it has more than just oil in. It seems like a mixture of gas, oil and water vapor. Is it really healthy for the motor to have that kind of fluid going back into it? The reason I ask is because if I do a fresh oil change and drive my car hard it does fill th ecatch can pretty quickly. I check the oil on the dip stick to see how low it is and while checking it I see that the oil on the stick is very clean, like new. But the oil in the catch can is already black after only a few miles of driving with the new oil. Seems like it may be contaminated from gas and or moisture. Again, Im just trying to get a feel on everyones opinion to see if it is OK to pit that dirty oil back into the motor?

Dave

Dave,

The sludge that you are speaking of is the result of the trapped oil being contaminated with water vapor. Because our air oil separator does not store oil, the clean oil that is pushed into the separator runs right back into the block while the water vapor is sucked into the intake system. That being said, the oil returning to your block is in the same condition as when it came out of the block only moments before.

As for the oil return location, that would be in the top of the block as opposed to the oil pan, although returning the oil to the oil pan should work fine. :)

Does anyone know anything about the oil return line? Crawford doesn't seem to want to comment. Am I going to have to drop the oil pan and weld a bung in there or what?

Edit: Also, what are the diameter of the hoses used? 1/2"? I've got an sti block/wrx heads hybrid and I've got issues w/ getting the crank to breath through the puny little 1/8" hoses the factory uses. I've gone to 1/2" hoses recently, and I'm *still* blowing a ton of oil under heavy latteral G's. I'd really like to use a 3/4" hose straight off the 3/4" CCV to a separator can... but it looks like the Crawford can uses 1/2" hoses or smaller.


Yeah, we used to have the same issues you are having while road racing our STI. I am happy to say that we can now run an entire weekend of racing with same oil that we showed up with.

Yeah, we used to have the same issues you are having while road racing our STI. I am happy to say that we can now run an entire weekend of racing with same oil that we showed up with.
I've been wondering about this issue on road raced WRX's. Is an oil seperator just patching the symptoms of a bigger problem (lack of a proper oil breather system that can handle high lateral Gs) or is it a real solution to puking oil out the breathers?

The oil I'm getting in my catch cans is plain old oil, not blow-by, that seems to be blown out the breathers because the crank is pressurized by a larger than stock turbo. Really there should be enough ventilation out the CCV so air is always being sucked in the valve cover breathers. But w/ a large turbo (and especially on a hybrid STI/WRX motor) the oil galleys pressurize the valve covers so if you're going around any corners there's flow out the heads and plenty of oil right there to come with it.

Capturing the oil and returning it to the pan sounds like a decent solution for the oil, but not the ultimate solution... as it's not solving the lack of crank ventilation that's the root of the problem.

Either way, since I'm not about to dry sump the car, or put a ventury or electric pump on the CCV, I think I'll be ordering up one of these oil separator cans... where do I get one? www.crawfordperformance.com?

Also, how critical is the mounting location? My water injecton system lives next to the dogbone pitch mount...

Ordered mine today. Thanks Quirt and Chris you both were very helpful!

-Mike

I'll take one for 150.00 usd :) At that price you could sell a lot..

I definately think $150 ($50 over the brand named oil seperators w/ K&N filter) is worth it. Crawford gotta re-think its prices. Alot of BIG name brand companies will start having a short shelf life pretty soon at the rate they start selling parts. IMO

So basically this just allows us not to burn oil off so fast? Other than that, does it serve any real purpose? I planned on getting one, just want to know exactly what it does!

So basically this just allows us not to burn oil off so fast? Other than that, does it serve any real purpose? I planned on getting one, just want to know exactly what it does!

Our air / oil separator keeps the motor oil out of your intake system and in the crankcase where it belongs. This will help your tuner make more power and your motor will live longer as well. The foul odor coming from the breather on a catch can is also not present with our AOS.

Thanks for your interest in our products;

Crawford Performance