STU guys check in. Set ups [Archive]

wm07

04-05-2006, 01:29 AM

04 STi.

1. Engine: crank pulley.
2. Exhaust: Gruppe-S header (mostly for the weight saving), B&B catted downpipe, cat back.
3. Suspension: Whiteline G4 Race (9k/8k), 14" F, 13.5" R. Cusco Front(drilled and rotated 45 degrees) and Rear camber plates. Strano 32mm FSB, Cusco 22mm RSB set to full soft. Cusco Front and rear tower bars. Energy Suspension bushings + Group-N trailing arms bushings, steering rack bushings,
4. Alignment: Front -3.6 camber(pushed all the way in at events). 3mm total toe out. -1.6 camber rear with zero toe. Alignment is done at home using SmartCamber gauges, too lazy to measure caster :), will get corner balanced and laser alignment very soon, so I will find out the actual numbers. Street alignment is -2.8 camber in the front with 1 mm toe in, I set 3mm toe out with camber plate at max negative camber, and dialed back the camber plates until I get a little toe in, and ended up getting -2.8 camber for street driving... may be it's too aggressive for street driving, but then I don't drive the car everyday. ;)
5. Tires: Azenis RT-615- 245/45 17 on 17x8.5 wheels.

Need more mods on the driver though. :)

Snakebot

04-06-2006, 01:34 AM

Need more mods on the driver though. :)

Amen brother!

ap0kalypse

04-10-2006, 06:14 PM

my STU setup:
05 STi
K&N Typhoon
Helix Catted DP and HKS Hi-Power catback
no name brand coilover (ride height is about 1.5" lower than stock), Perrin adjustable RSB (at the lower setting currently)
Waiting on tires to get alignment done
Stock BBS with stock tires

Follow up questions.
I see that a lot of you guys are running 245/45/17 RT-615 with stock STi BBS or aftermarket 17x8 rims. Does anybody have any rubbing issues? Or has everybody rolled their fenders. My car is a daily driver (probably a lot your cars as well). I want to get some RT-615 in 245/45 for my stock bbs then get an alignment. Also, what is a good alignment setup for autoX, track & daily driving all together? Sorry for the noob questions.

bdi

06-26-2006, 09:28 PM

I want to bump this back up and see if anyone has changed or fined tuned there setup so far this season.

My setup is as follows:

1. Engine: K&N typhoon intake...the rest stock
2. Exhaust: Stock
3. Suspension: Zeal V6 Coilovers (10k/8k). Whiteline 24mm adj. fsb with stock endlinks. Perrin adj rsb with perrin endlinks. All sways currently set to softest settings. STi replica rear strut tower bar.
4. Alignment: Front -1.6 camber, 0 toe. Rear -1.5 camber, 0 toe. That was the max I could get with the stock camber bolts and the Zeal camber plates.
5. Ride Height: Front = 14". Rear = 13.5". Plan on bring the front up a hair cause I am getting rubbing with the 615's in 245/45.
6. Tires: 615's in 245/45 on a 17x8 rota torque.
7. Brakes: Stock pads. SS brake line with super blue fluid.

Furture mods. Brake pads...maybe the Pagin Blues. Change the fsb to full stiff. Many hours behind the wheel.

Bring up the front a little. What are people that have 245/45's running for ride height in the front? Also what camber bolts are you guys running in order to get -3+ camber in the front?

Aiight thats it. Thanks to everyone who posted here. Def helped me out alot. Please post up any new setups or adjustments you have made so far this season.

bdi

10-24-2006, 07:48 PM

Lets bump this back up and get some feedback on what people thought of their setups this year.
Spring rates?
Camber?
Etc?

silver arrow

10-24-2006, 08:16 PM

waktasz

10-24-2006, 08:43 PM

Well, after 5 events on the RT615's I can say without a doubt that I learned nothing. :lol: My impression is that they would be great on a lighter car, but the STi is too heavy adn powerful and heats them up very fast. Not the tire for multi driver effort for sure. Advan or MX would be better for multi driver cars. I will probably buy the RT615's again because best tire for the price, but cool between every run on hot days. For the price, used RE070's are a good choice too.

My set up hasn't changed, but will be getting STU tune, intake, pulley, light battery over the winter.

I hate my MX's. I'm gonna ditch them in the spring after what will probably be like 3,000 miles.

As for the original question...

Gutted stock downpipe, stock midpipe, Prodrive muffler

Crucial Racing springs, IPD F/R swaybars, Tein Camber plates

Max neg camber and ??? toe settings. I had a shop align my car and install my camber plates (I'm lazy and they were cheap) but you get what you pay for and they put the plates on wrong. I fixed it myself but havn't had it realligned up front...tires are paying the price for it.

245/40-17 MX's on 17x8 Rota Revs.

DrBiggly

10-24-2006, 11:24 PM

SammyRex

10-26-2006, 10:24 AM

Sprayer: $10

That's much easier to deal with. Honestly I believe that sprayers are basically mandatory on every tire with a multi-driver car, barring temps below about 40 degrees outside. :)

-Biggly

Can you give a link for sprayer product?
I have seen several some people bring the bottles in events, but I dont know where
to get them.
Are they spraying water or some coolant that cools faster than water?

Thanks,

Sammy

waktasz

10-26-2006, 10:40 AM

Home depot in the garden section. It's just water.

DrBiggly

10-26-2006, 10:47 AM

Can you give a link for sprayer product?
I have seen several some people bring the bottles in events, but I dont know where
to get them.
Are they spraying water or some coolant that cools faster than water?

Thanks,

Sammy

Garden section of Sears/Home Depot/Lowe's/whatever you choose. Any garden type sprayer. Only water; nothing else would be a good idea. If you have ice to go in there, dump it in too.

Seriously don't just ditch a whole set of tires when your issues can be solved by a $10 bottle and some water. :)

-Biggly

SammyRex

10-26-2006, 01:13 PM

Thanks for Waktasz and DrBiggly.
I will go get one today :devil: .
I did also feel my 615's lose its grip after first 3 runs.
Hopefully the spray can solve this issues with ease.
But even without the spary, my new RT-615 is far superior
to my previous set of eagle F1 GSD's, they gets hot so easily
and squeak like pig every time in the corner during AX :huh: .

Sammy

SammyRex

10-26-2006, 01:18 PM

DrBiggly

10-26-2006, 02:27 PM

Sammy,
Are you bleeding off the pressure once they heat up as well? The pressure buildup from the heat (PV=nRT if I remember right) will also cause additional traction loss. Keep an eye on the pressures as well as the temps. Check temps with your hand when it comes back; note that one side will sometimes be hotter than the other depending upon the course. You can also use temps as a measure of if you are overdriving the car too much once you get used to how warm they should be for a certain length course, # of turns, etc. :)

-Biggly

silver arrow

10-26-2006, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by silver arrow
Well, after 5 events on the RT615's I can say without a doubt that I learned nothing. My impression is that they would be great on a lighter car, but the STi is too heavy adn powerful and heats them up very fast. Not the tire for multi driver effort for sure. Advan or MX would be better for multi driver cars. I will probably buy the RT615's again because best tire for the price, but cool between every run on hot days. For the price, used RE070's are a good choice too.

My set up hasn't changed, but will be getting STU tune, intake, pulley, light battery over the winter.

Can you explain more about what you mean by " you learn nothing from RT615"?
Do you mean they are too heavy? heating up too fast? or...?
So far, I am pretty happy with them. BTW, mine is 235/40/17
on 8" ultraleggra.
What is the best pressure for 615's for the grip (regardless of suspension setup)?

Sammy

I had hoped to run against some guys that I regularly run with to how they compared directly to the RE070. I use the RE070 as a reference for all tires. Only problem is we all switched tires at the same time and the other guy I was judging gains and losses with got tuned. They are better on the street and they seem to have more grip and with lots of neg camber, they like lower pressures than the RE070. I do spray them after the 2nd run and every run after. I run 38psi fr / 34-40 psi in rear but I have -3 deg camber in front so it might be different for you.

SammyRex

10-27-2006, 12:02 AM

z3coupe

10-27-2006, 05:13 AM

Thanks DrBiggly, I did measure the tire pressure after each run.
I also notice that sometimes the tire temperature on one side is
different from another depends on which direction of turns goes
harder or more.
I do adjust the tire pressure to the level I want to after each run.
But, even at the same pressure, the temperature is always different.
Yes, it could be that you turn one way more than the other out on the course - but ONE thing everyone seems to overlook, is the SUN. Yes, that nice yellow ball in the sky that allows us to go out and play. But it also causes a problem too. You see, while you are out on the course working, or you are walking around or chatting with friends under a nice cool tent - your CAR is out under the hot sun. And unless you are smart enough to move your car from time to time, the sun is beating down one the same 2 tires for hours on end. You might have started out with a certain pressure (cold) when you left home, but all the time spent driving to the event, and the time the car is parked (and there might even be an effect while waiting in line for your next run), the sun is cooking your tires. I have found that after having the car sit in the same position for a few hours, the sunny side could be up by anywhere of 2-5 psi from the side in the shadow. Another thought, is how much you weigh? If you find the driver's side is always hotter and higher in psi - it could be due to more stress placed on that side because of you. But then on the other hand, it might be a good idea to HAVE a pound or two higher on your side of the car to compensate for you being in it.

Now of course, when you adjust the pressures all the time at the event, just remember one thing - check them later at night after your car had a few hours to cool down with no sun on them. Reason being, after all I talked about above, you have now ended up setting one side a few psi lower than the other due to the differences in termps.

Hope this helps :)

SammyRex

10-27-2006, 04:43 PM

z3coupe

10-28-2006, 05:23 AM

I was also aware of the sun light effect. The side under the sun definitely
raise the temperature noticably. But there was nothing I can do about it.
So, the best I could do is to maintain the constant pressure on both side.
I dont know how to make the grip even, when there is a temperature
difference on each side :confused: . Should I lower the pressure on
higher temperature side or raise the pressure on lower temperature side?
Or just cover the tires :lol: .

Sammy
It is always easier and FASTER (specially when rushing to the line, or in the line waiting for the next run) to let air OUT of the tires, than using a compressor or carrying a bottle around with you all over the place. So I start out cold at home, higher than I need.

bdi

10-29-2006, 04:10 AM

It is always easier and FASTER (specially when rushing to the line, or in the line waiting for the next run) to let air OUT of the tires, than using a compressor or carrying a bottle around with you all over the place. So I start out cold at home, higher than I need.

So true!

silver arrow

10-29-2006, 11:36 AM

I've been doing that also. Set high the night before and bleed down at the track and between runs. Still helpful to have an air tank though. Last week it was so cool that no one was getting any pressure rise in the tires and I wanted 1-2 psi more in the rear after my first run. Without a tank or pump you are SOL. If you are really cool, get tires filled with nitrogen and your tank too.

silver arrow

12-02-2006, 02:59 AM

1. Engine: Stock
2. Exhaust: Scooby Sport shorty DP wrapped. Prodrive axleback.
3. Suspension: Tein Flex 12k/10k set to 1 front, 5 rear. Strano 32mm FSB
4. Alignment: Front Max neg camber on tein tops. 0 toe front and rear. -1.5 camber rear (planning on changing toe soon and experimenting with more neg camber in the rear.)
5. Tires: RE070 225/45 17 40 psi front, 38 psi rear(Azenis RT-615- 245/45 17 on order)
6. Brakes:stock

Thread back from the dead. How did everyone do in STU this year? What changes are you planning?

I am planning on adding lightened pulley, STU protune, undecided brakepads, light battery, new alignment and corner balance over the winter. Maybe 12k springs rear

JPotter

01-08-2007, 06:26 PM

I hope to get the coil-overs sorted out before the season starts.

1. Engine: Stock
2. Exhaust: Cobb Turboback
3. Suspension: Not sure about this but was pondering 7k/8k coilovers, (yes 7k/8k) to go along with my Strano FSB and stock rear bar. Not sure why nobody does this, am I missing something?

4. Alignment: -2.5F/-1.25R 0 toe
5. Tires: Using up the last of my RE070 225/45 17 44 psi front, 42 psi rear. Then onto some 245s of whatever I can get hooked up with.
6. Brakes:stock

I'm not looking to win any championships, just want to be competitive.

Banannie

01-09-2007, 06:18 PM

Hi all,

Some of you may know me, some may not - I'm Annie, and yes, I am a car addict. :lol: I just bought car #37 that I've owned in my lifetime :eek: , and it's a 2007 STI.

I'd say I'm a pretty good autocrosser and have a pair of National Championships and a ProSolo Championship - but all in stock classes!

I'm again co-driving with friends in a stock class this year for national events, but thought it would be fun to toss the daily driver around occasionally in STU locally (especially in the rain, and unfortunately it does rain in Seattle!). But I don't really know where to start, as there are SO many more options for the car than in stock.

I want the best, fastest parts. Period. I'm looking at people who are competing nationally for assistance, as I *am* competitive! At the same time, it is my daily driver so I'm not going all out on it - I'm keeping the stock seats and for now, the stock EM. I just can't void the warranty quite yet.

So, you super fast guys in STU - what's the hot setup? I'm looking at suspension first, and a good cat-back that is good when I do the TBE and EM. I'll probably install most of it in the next few months after the risk of snow fades away...

If you don't want to divulge all your secrets here to all, feel free to PM me or e-mail me at annie_bauer AT yahoo DOT com.

Thanks!

Annie Bauer
'07 SWP STI

thrdeye

01-09-2007, 06:30 PM

I'm not super fast by any means (finished in the mid-30's in Topeka) but -

The Neovas are the fast tire.

Pick out some coilovers and a spring rate (ohlins, zzyzx, kw, tein)

Get a big bar in front (Whiteline or Strano)

Rear swaybar endlinks (hold off on a rear bar until you learn the car - you may not want one)

Cat back isn't really going to help you - the only part you might think about getting is a resonator-free rear pipe, and then put a straight pipe on that.

Since your not willing to put the TBE on or get the car tuned, you're pretty much stuck power wise.

Banannie

01-09-2007, 06:34 PM

sciolist

01-09-2007, 06:37 PM

Lots of positive camber in front, raise the rear ride height about 5" and use the narrowest tires you can find, lol.

Looking forward to seeing you and the rest of the NWR folks at Packwood. :D

JPotter

01-09-2007, 07:38 PM

Thanks - I appreciate the input!

Keep it coming, guys!

Which are the best coilovers and with which spring rates? I think that's my big stumbling block...

Might go with the Whiteline front bar for now since it's a daily driver and I know Sam's bar has had some fitment issues...

And I totally agree on the Neova's! I put them on my old Boxster S and it simply transformed the car!

What size/brand wheels are people using? That's another thing - I've put snows on the stockers and will just bundle up the stock tires for later, and go with the Neova's and ??? wheels.

For coilovers, I'll just say that I know that somebody who placed in the top 5 at Nationals that ran with 10k/12k springs. However, most seem to go with 12k/10k. If money was no object I would get them from zzyzx.

Personally, I don't have the money to compete nationally right now so I've settled for softer spring since it is also my DD. (7K/8K) Maybe in a few years I will have the $$$ to make a serious try.

Although I had no fitment issues with Sam's bar, your right, some people did but it was just a bolt you could turn or grind a little off. I think the Whiteline bar is just as good - 29mm vs. 29.6mm (equivalent of 32mm hollow bar).

Wheels, well the lightest thing you can find that will fit 245s. Can't really comment on this since I just have Rota's but they are 17.5lbs a wheel (torques).

One important mod that helps driving is a harness of some sort for the stock seats. I find myself fighting to stay in one place without one.

silver arrow

01-09-2007, 08:17 PM

In order of importance, IMO

Free stuff. Race with 1/4 tank as long as you don't have fuel cut problems. I run even less and have never had cut.

Alignment Front -3.0 camber, 1/16" toe out. Rear -1.0 camber, 0 toe.

I run give or take 2 psi depending on how the 38psi front, 36psi rear. Maybe able to run less with wider wheels.

1. You might want to experiment 12k/10k, 10k/12k and even 12k/12k. The KW and zzyzz are 2 of the best. I have Tein Flex which work great on the track but suck on the street. What I got was largely based on my budget. BTW National champ was on OTS Flex's with 12k/12k. You want the best of the best, spent $10,000 on a set of custom Motons.

2. Whichever big FSB you prefer. I have Stanos, will be switching to Whiteline. Stranos fits poorly.

3. Yoko's are the tire to have, Azenis work well if you are on a budget. MX work well for multi driver efforts.

4. I have the quick fit belts, work great.

5. Whichever TBE that meets your tolerance for loud, but read the cat placement rules. I think the shorty DP's are a good choice since you have to keep a cat anyway. I got the Scoobysport one used and it is a pretty nice peice. Went with the Prodrive round tip axleback because I thought the Borla Hush was to loud. :lol:

6. Tune, I think OpenECU is a great contribution, and many tuners are starting to tune with it, making a tune much cheaper.

The rest in any order your budget will allow.

Wheels are largely a matter of where you want to spend money. 17x9 seems to be the sweet spot with 245 width tires. I am still running the stock 17 x 8. Nationals winning car was using stock 17 x 7.5. There is feel and added stability to be had with 9" wheel, but you aren't giving up huge amounts of grip.

Headers or P&P stock headers. EL headers have been shown to gain power everywhere when tuned. P&P stocker with new crosspipe is great poor mans header with good gains down low.

Light weight pulley ( isn't going to give you alot of hp, but easier to match revs) Don't get underdriven.

Light weight battery, relocated to the trunk for extra cool points.

Replace stock seats with race seats. Look at the rules there are weight requirements.

bdi

01-09-2007, 08:30 PM

Please do a quick write up on how the 07 performs on the course! Interested to see if the new 2nd gear will help....among other changes they made...(added weight :mad:)

adhowe70

01-09-2007, 09:14 PM

Hey Annie...

What the hell?

Andy

PS - if you're really interested, I'll hook you up with Oregon's STU crowd. They'll get you pointed in the right direction.

Edit: Is this the 37th car when you count duplicates or not? I mean it was 4 TypeR's and 5 S2000's, right? Are you counting those as two total or nine total?

BlkWRXWag

01-09-2007, 10:14 PM

Annie,

I would contact Myles @ Racecomp Engineering about coilovers. His RCE/KW setup may be a good choice. I ran the Cusco Zero 2R's last year which, while only single adjustable, worked really well and are very comfortable on the street (10k/8k).

If you go for a set of 17x9's, you'll need +45 or higher to avoid rubbing in the back. My 5Zigen FN01RC's are +43 and I had to put camber plates in the rear to cure the rubbing.

Other then that, a Whiteline 27-29mm FSB, maybe a Cobb 22-24mm RSB and a Cobb catback would all work very well. The Cobb catback is an easy fit and is quiet when you are not WOT. You can add the Cobb DP with high-flo later when you are ready for a tune. Whilst a catback is not going to give you much more power, I find a little more exhaust note helps you hear where the revs are.

Yokohama Neova 245/40/17's are a no brainer:D

-Max.
2006 STU Pro Solo champ.

RS_Racer

01-09-2007, 10:42 PM

One important mod that helps driving is a harness of some sort for the stock seats. I find myself fighting to stay in one place without one.

So true. One of the best mods I did on my RS was this Schroth belt http://www.soloracer.com/rallye4.html

Without it, I was all over the car, and in fact I was pressing my knee up against the door so hard that I popped the power window piece out. With the harness, I'm pretty firmly planted.

BlkWRXWag

01-09-2007, 10:45 PM

+1 on the Schroth Rallye 4:D

qcslvr30

01-09-2007, 11:14 PM

Annie, welcome to the STi club! Ryan Otis and I both run Sti's in STU in Oregon region. We have been incredibly happy with the KW coilovers. We both run 8k/7k for now. I think they are a good setup for a car that gets driven a lot on the street. I also run the big Whiteline FSB. For wheels you can get 17x9 Kosie K1 Ts's from Tire rack for about $250 ea. The 45 offset is just about ideal for a 9" wide rim. They are pretty light too.

I think everybody else covered the basic alignment stuff. When you are ready for EM give PDX Tuning a call. I know your up north but it would be worth the trip.

Looking forward to seeing you and your STi in Packwood. I plan on making it up for a couple of slush events at Bremerton, I"ll keep a look out for you. You can take a run in my car and see how it feels to you.

James Paulson
#30 STU

grippgoat

01-09-2007, 11:17 PM

Annie,

Just track down Doug Mikko and pick his brain.

-Mike

adhowe70

01-09-2007, 11:27 PM

Annie, welcome to the STi club!
You act like this is her first STi. If memory serves, this is her second STi. Seems like there was an RX-8, Boxster S and TypeR in between her two STi's. And I know I missed a car or two in there... maybe another S2000 or Miata and there's an outside chance she had another IS.

Yes, she has an addiction. Unfortunately, she can't stick to the 12 step program.

(I'm just jealous, Annie!)

xerox445@yahoo.com

01-09-2007, 11:38 PM

Ive been reading STU rules latley, coming from SM, and I am wondering how legal is a "tune" for stu...

BlkWRXWag

01-09-2007, 11:41 PM

A tune is STU legal if it only adjusts fuel/timing and does not touch the stock boost tables.

Draken

01-09-2007, 11:59 PM

A bit can be gained from adjusting the cam timing too.

BTW, hi Annie. And Max. And Andy.

Chris H.
-former stu'r

Crash477

01-10-2007, 12:07 AM

*subscribe* for great info..

STU #84

Crash477

01-10-2007, 12:17 AM

06 STi:

STOCK! lol modding begins now!

afpdl

01-10-2007, 12:29 AM

Does your 07 suffer from horrible throttle response? Ive only autoxed one 07 but it was bad enough that I would never want to try again untill the issue is resolved.

Banannie

01-10-2007, 12:38 AM

My gawd you guys just ROCK! Stupid good amounts of info - exactly what I need! And HI to all the folks I know, and HI to all the folks I'm now meeting!

And, for the first time in my life, I can say "money is no object" for this car, although I'm not going to burn up money just for the sake of burning it up, which is why I want to make sure I get the right, best parts the first time around. That way, when I do take it to the next level of prep (EM) I'm not redoing a lot. I may do a softer spring like James and Ryan suggested for now, and bump to a 10 or 12K later, but I'm going to minimize my compromises.

I'm likely co-driving a slow CS car this year, so I won't be in the STI too terribly much, as I've got to learn yet another beast - heck, I haven't driven the same car at nationals twice (although this is where the multiple Type R's and S2K's comes in... technically it was never the same car...). Also, I'll miss the first part of the season as I just got out of the foot cast from my injury at the Pro Finale (who knew Andy Hollis and champagne bottles were so dangerous?)

And yes, this is my second STI - many people never saw the first. I plan to keep this one for a while (heh, I always say that) so I'm going to space out the mods by a few weeks each, so it's always "interesting" and "new", if that makes sense!

Yay! You guys are great!

thrdeye

01-10-2007, 12:41 AM

One (small) biggie that I don't think was mentioned - STEERING RACK BUSHINGS.

Now, on an 07, this may not be necessary. I know that the 04 that I am driving had the same steering rack setup as my 02, which is mushy. The 07 may have the good stuff already in there.

Also, on your spring rate, I would try the stiffer in the front first. We are doing this and the car will still throttle oversteer if you need it.

BlkWRXWag

01-10-2007, 12:46 AM

Take at look at the Zzyzx coilovers if money is not an object. Can't go wrong with those babies.

www.zzyzxmotorsports.com

Banannie

01-10-2007, 12:46 AM

Does your 07 suffer from horrible throttle response? Ive only autoxed one 07 but it was bad enough that I would never want to try again untill the issue is resolved.

My car's not broken in yet, but even with moderate throttle I can feel the hesitation. Once it's broken in, I'll get a case open with the dealer. This is another reason why I'm not going to EM right away, I want Subaru to fix that first (yes, I know I'll be able to fix it with EM, but I'd rather have a useful stock map, too...)

ULLLOSE

01-10-2007, 12:46 AM

Hi all,

Some of you may know me, some may not - I'm Annie, and yes, I am a car addict. :lol: I just bought car #37 that I've owned in my lifetime :eek: , and it's a 2007 STI.

I want the best, fastest parts. Period. I'm looking at people who are competing nationally for assistance, as I *am* competitive! At the same time, it is my daily driver so I'm not going all out on it - I'm keeping the stock seats and for now, the stock EM. I just can't void the warranty quite yet.

Thanks!

Annie Bauer
'07 SWP STI

I hear the hot mod for STU is an Evo 9. :devil: So sell the STI and move on to #38. :lol:

Banannie

01-10-2007, 12:48 AM

How much do the zzxyz's run typically for cost, and would the fact they're aluminum, not steel, be something to worry about for daily driving?

Banannie

01-10-2007, 12:49 AM

I hear the hot mod for STU is an Evo 9. :devil: So sell the STI and move on to #38. :lol:

You're an evil, evil man Jason - don't you know that feeding the addict is a bad thing?

thrdeye

01-10-2007, 12:51 AM

How much do the zzxyz's run typically for cost, and would the fact they're aluminum, not steel, be something to worry about for daily driving?

They are built well, and are on the car I'm driving. They won't break, don't worry about that

zzyzx with koni da's = $3200+

Banannie

01-10-2007, 12:59 AM

Ok, that's not too bad... is it a consensus that they're better than KW's or other options?

ULLLOSE

01-10-2007, 01:01 AM

You're an evil, evil man Jason - don't you know that feeding the addict is a bad thing?

You are beyond help. If I were metro like Max I would cry thinking about all the good cars you have gone through in the last few years. :lol:

Lucky for me Jennifer's only vice is shoes. :(

adhowe70

01-10-2007, 01:09 AM

Annie,

I'm trying to get my hands on some Zzyzx coilovers for my '96 Impreza. Maybe that will tell you a little about how they're reputation goes. People I respect are using them and going fast. But like everything else, there's more than one way to skin a cat here, too.

Also... does anyone have a phone number for Zzyzx? I've tried contacting them via their webpage, but haven't gotten a reply (and haven't found a phone number on the web page.)

Andy <--- cries when he thinks about the good cars that Annie has gone through in the last few years

Banannie

01-10-2007, 10:00 AM

Oh, Andy, don't cry, that's what your daughter is for! Let her do the cryin... :)

(and you did miss one car in the mix between the two STI's...)

BlkWRXWag

01-10-2007, 12:06 PM

Also... does anyone have a phone number for Zzyzx?

913-706-5496

RainMaker

01-10-2007, 12:43 PM

I bought Ohlins Flag series instead of ZZYZX. If you were going to stick to the 12k/10k stuff like folks on slicks, I would suggest the ZZYZX... but with the 8k/7k springs, Im inclined to prefer Ohlin's remarkable streetability.

ALso, its not a huge advantage, but the Ohlins are inverted, and you can adjust compression without putting a knee on the ground ;)

The Ohlins are also machined aluminum though... and they are certainly designed for daily driving, since that was a question earlier.

Chris
(another Oregon region STi'er)

ULLLOSE

01-10-2007, 12:54 PM

You guys make sure whatever parts you recommend to her they are off the shelf in stock ready to sell parts. Anything that is a custom order she wont be able to get before she sells the car. :lol:

Banannie

01-10-2007, 01:10 PM

BlkWRXWag

01-10-2007, 01:18 PM

You guys make sure whatever parts you recommend to her they are off the shelf in stock ready to sell parts. Anything that is a custom order she wont be able to get before she sells the car. :lol:

That's Zzyzx out then:D

AtomicRacer

01-10-2007, 01:44 PM

+1 on the Schroth Rallye 4:D

+2 on that.

-Paul

sciolist

01-10-2007, 02:34 PM

Any of you with the stiffer setup drive your cars daily? How's the ride? I don't mind a stiff car, but I don't want something that is ridiculous...

The STi really isn't bad at all on the street with springs in the 11K range if you have adjustable damping.

I don't think (lack of) ride quality would be the reason one would choose to put the car on a trailer.

waktasz

01-10-2007, 02:48 PM

+1 on the Schroth Rallye 4:D

Does it fit on the 06 cars? Their site says the 06 Subarus had a change to the seatbelt connectors and their harnesses will not work until they come up with an update.

BlkWRXWag

01-10-2007, 02:56 PM

yeah - it fits just fine. I took mine from my 03 Wagon and installed in on the 06 STI. I didn't notice any differences.

pjhe

01-10-2007, 03:08 PM

another inverted ohlin fan here...
and i'll second the steering rack bushing notion as well
and echo the whiteline FSB notions
instead of full belts i'd just rock out CG locks since it's a DD

ratt_finkel

01-10-2007, 03:10 PM

Ideally I want a coilover where at most I'll have to change springs to be at the top of my game if/when I start really trying to compete with the car. You never know, I may just get the stiff ones right off the bat. Any of you with the stiffer setup drive your cars daily? How's the ride? I don't mind a stiff car, but I don't want something that is ridiculous...

And ha ha ha ha Jason! Yes, I deserved that...

Hello Annie,

Another fellow stock class competitor, though I have only tour trophies because I still suck and I choose to run an subaru RS against a Mini Cooper S.

There will be quite the change going to a fully prepped STi. But a fun one. Some people have recommended the zzyzx coilovers already. I'm going to go ahead and say that if you have a subaru, there is no reason to look at anything else but that setup. If you want good parts right off the bat, look no further than the zzyzx.

Get a set of 17x9" koseis, I'd actually say to slap the stock tires on those rims, and once they wear out, give the yok's a shot. The bridgestones are fast too. Keep us updated on your progress and don't forget to ask more questions.

Jeremy Foley
GS #80

Banannie

01-10-2007, 03:27 PM

Hello Annie,

Another fellow stock class competitor, though I have only tour trophies because I still suck and I choose to run an subaru RS against a Mini Cooper S.

Jeremy Foley
GS #80

Oops, I resemble that remark... (I drove Jake Nygaard's Mini S last year...)

silver arrow

01-10-2007, 05:29 PM

I DD the flex's. The springs aren't the problem it's the poor valving.

sciolist

01-10-2007, 06:07 PM

Oops, I resemble that remark... (I drove Jake Nygaard's Mini S last year...)

Hey, did Jake get a new car yet? I'm curious what that's going to be.

Banannie

01-10-2007, 06:14 PM

They're looking at buying a house so there's no replacement in the works... for now!

seattleswimboy

01-10-2007, 07:51 PM

Take a look at RCE’s new Tarmac 2’s. Thy are built by KW with more aggressive valving and higher spring rates. Thy also have some other improvements over the standard KW V3.
Karl Coleman will be running on them with his 02 WRX in STX this year.

STU #25

JPotter

01-11-2007, 03:59 AM

BIGSKYWRX

01-11-2007, 11:12 AM

As tires/wheels and coilovers have been covered pretty thoroughly (and I'd also in addition to the zzyzx look into the new RCE Tarmac's- also double adj, long list of linear springs availalble and a few minor tweaks over the OTS KW's). I think DA's will really help w/ daily driving even on firm springs, the ability to dial out high speed compression would make a huge improvement in "comfort".

I'll mention bushings- as suspension bushings are free in ST (as long as you don't increase the ratio of metal) I'd put them on my "list" for a hot setup as well. The oe trailing link bushings and oe lateral link bushings are on the softish side- you have a choice of Group N (higher durometer rubber) or poly. You also get some driveline bushings/mounts that can be replaced too.

When you get around to replacing these you'll see what I mean :)

Banannie

01-11-2007, 11:24 AM

Thanks guys! This is amazing - thank you for all your help and advice!

Annie

RS_Racer

01-11-2007, 02:17 PM

yeah - it fits just fine. I took mine from my 03 Wagon and installed in on the 06 STI. I didn't notice any differences.

Was it the quick fit, or the regular bolt in? I know the regular bolt-in belts would work, but if yours was the quick fit, did it clip into the seat belt recepticles OK? My buddy said that was the problem...supposedly Subaru had changed the seat belt recepticles and the Schroths would no longer clip in. Hmmmm, if I get an '07 STI maybe I can use these belts.

BlkWRXWag

01-11-2007, 02:24 PM

Did it clip into the seat belt recepticles OK? My buddy said that was the problem...supposedly Subaru had changed the seat belt recepticles and the Schroths would no longer clip in. Hmmmm, if I get an '07 STI maybe I can use these belts.

Yeah - well, they don't clip in anyway. The Schroth harness has a bracket with a hole (at each of the 4 points). On the chassis, each seatbelt harness is held in with a bolt. Undo the bolt, add the Schroth bracket in and put the bolt back in. Unless the Rallye 4 has changed the design in the last couple of years, there is no problem.

RS_Racer

01-11-2007, 02:27 PM

Yeah - well, they don't clip in anyway. The Schroth harness has a bracket with a hole (at each of the 4 points). On the chassis, each seatbelt harness is held in with a bolt. Undo the bolt, add the Schroth bracket in and put the bolt back in. Unless the Rallye 4 has changed the design in the last couple of years, there is no problem.

Oh, you have the regular Rallye 4 point bolt-in then. Yea, that will work no problem. But they also have some sort of quick fit Rallye 4 point they make for the Subaru's... it clips in and out of the car using the seat belts. Those particular ones don't appear to work on the 2006+ cars because of some change Subaru made (and I thought you had got one to work in yours...my bad).

BIGSKYWRX

01-11-2007, 04:10 PM

That's funny (not ha ha funny) as the very first bunch of quick fits to hit our shores all had to be sent back as they didn't our receptacles- they revised them and re- sent them- have them in my 04 and love them.

Now it appears we (North America) have gone to the same receptacles that the EU had a couple of years ago- now they'll have to offer two different ones. The good news is they should have lots of the "newer" style ones :)

BlkWRXWag

01-11-2007, 04:38 PM

See - I had no idea there was a new 'quick fit" type:D My one is crap enough that it works everywhere:)

Banannie

01-12-2007, 01:21 PM

So some are suggesting the Tarmac 2's, some the zzyxz - who knows enough about both to comment on the pros/cons of each??? Inquiring minds would love to know...

Annie

BlkWRXWag

01-12-2007, 01:34 PM

Annie,

The Tarmac 2 has only just been released, so I doubt anyone has tested it on an AX course yet. The Zzyzx utilizes the Koni 8611 DA shock, so is somewhat of a known quantity for AX.

Which one is better - only time will tell.

-Max.

Uber Wagon

01-12-2007, 01:41 PM

On the power side:

How much are people picking up on a dedicated STU tune versus the stock ECU (assumining you already have a downpipe)?

RainMaker

01-12-2007, 02:29 PM

So some are suggesting the Tarmac 2's, some the zzyxz - who knows enough about both to comment on the pros/cons of each??? Inquiring minds would love to know...

Annie

The Tarmac 2s are double adjustable, but have fixed high speed damping in either direction. This means decent street manners. The Tarmac 2s are about 1/2 the price of the ZZYZX. There is some question that the Tarmac 2s would work well with 12k/10k springs. With street tires, you may not want quite that much spring. The Tarmac 2s are single height adjustable, meaning to have to add spring preload if you want to lower the car, sacrificing some travel in the process. I believe the rear ZZYZX have helper springs to keep fom lifting legs. THe Tarmac 2 is a stamped steel design, implying slightly heavier components.

The ZZYZX are a true motorsports design and use the Koni 8611 DA. That means double adjustability, but the high speed dampening is adjusted with the low. You probably wont get the street manners out of the Koni that you can with the ZZYZX. On the other hand, these shocks are totally in their element with 12k/10k springs. While ZZYZX's setup seems sorted, I havent seen them arrive with brake-hose brackets, wire brackets, and other niceties that lend them to "swap on in a couple hours and drive accross the US." The ZZYZX has a slotted top and bottom hub bolt hole, making it a liiiittle easier to get big meaty tires on the car. This doesnt matter in STU ;) THe ZZYZX are double height adjustable, which means you can preserve 100% of your travel (and as little preload as you like) while adjusting ride height. The ZZYZX are aluminum bodies and flanges, for nice light weight blingy goodness. I believe the ZZYZX come with your choice of springs.

The double adjustable Ohlins Flag series seem to have the ability to work with 12/10k springs, are inverted, and have fixed decently comfy high speed dampening for the street. The Ohlins come with front camber plates and rear non-adjustable plates. The Ohlins have an external resevior for whatever thats worth. They are double height adjustable, and are aluminum bodied, flanged, and resevoired. They come with 8k front 6.5k rear springs, which seem pretty decent for Oregon streets, but you may find yourself wanting 7 or 7.5k in the rear for AutoX (Ryan and James can help with that). (Standard 2.5" springs like everything here, available from Groundcontrol for $59 a spring.) The Ohlins don't have a helper spring, but Ohlins claims that a helper spring wouldnt work since it couldnt overpower the valving and big swaybar, AND would get in the way of tire clearance.

I chose the Ohlins for SM, since I have to drive on them every day, wanted a totally bolt-in solution, wanted the ability to throw on 12k springs without revalving, and like the dual height adjustability. I don;t know if I'll lift a leg yet, but I'll have to get over it if I do, since I dont have a readily available solution. I do like that I can put the 275 tires right up against the dampener and keep a 7" spring above the tire in the rear. I got a great deal from racecompengineering.com for the Ohlins, but prices have gone up and they are looking mighty pricey.

Good luck and see you out there ;)

Chris

Banannie

01-12-2007, 02:43 PM

Chris, thanks for the detailed response, that was helpful! :)

Decisions, decisions...

Solotoy

01-15-2007, 04:08 PM

The Tarmac 2s are double adjustable, but have fixed high speed damping in either direction. This means decent street manners. The T2's focus on the low speed bump adjustment and as you mention the high speed is set at the factory.

The Tarmac 2s are about 1/2 the price of the ZZYZX. Yes they are.

The Tarmac 2s are single height adjustable, meaning to have to add spring preload if you want to lower the car, sacrificing some travel in the process. I believe the rear ZZYZX have helper springs to keep fom lifting legs. You are correct that since the T2's don't have a separate height adjustment, you need to change height with the spring perch. To lower the car you need to reduce spring preload but as we all know, if you get much lower than 13.5" you'll have funky suspension geometry that we can't fix within the ST_ rules. The T2's can handle this amount of drop without any issues. The T2's also have helper springs.

The ZZYZX are a true motorsports design and use the Koni 8611 DA. That means double adjustability, but the high speed dampening is adjusted with the low. With the 8611 the bump adjustment is a high speed adjustment. Along with it comes some low speed since they can't be completely separated. I was told by Koni and ProParts that the low speed change is at most 25% of the high speed change. So if you made a full turn on the bump you will have one turn of high speed and only 1/4 turn of low speed. With the T2's, any adjustment will be low speed. High speed is for pot holes. Low speed is for motorsports. :)

The ZZYZX has a slotted top and bottom hub bolt hole, making it a liiiittle easier to get big meaty tires on the car. The T2's also have slotted mounting holes to allow us to take advantage of the new ST_ camber rules.

The Ohlins have an external resevior for whatever thats worth. So does one end of the T2's.

All three of these coilovers (Ohlin Flags, RCE T2's, Zzyzx) are going to be awesome. If money is no object then some Koni 28s or triple adjustable Motons or Penskes would be the next category up the price range.

PKer

01-15-2007, 08:56 PM

What is the process for getting Tarmac T2s rebuilt?

BIGSKYWRX

01-15-2007, 11:17 PM

They're built by KW- so I would guess KW NA would take care of them

Mykl

01-15-2007, 11:29 PM

While ZZYZX's setup seems sorted, I havent seen them arrive with brake-hose brackets, wire brackets, and other niceties that lend them to "swap on in a couple hours and drive accross the US."

Chris

That's what zip ties are for. ;) So it's "swap on in a couple hours + five minutes and drive across the U.S."

If I was going to build a car to go to nationals in STU...

ZZYZX coilovers
450 lb/in front, 450 lb/in rear
Whiteline 27mm front swaybar (set to soft)
Whiteline 24mm rear swaybar

...and then of course all the other little bits and pieces. But those are the most important ones.

sciolist

01-15-2007, 11:51 PM

High speed is for pot holes. Low speed is for motorsports. :)

Guess I'll just have to hang with the potholes until I can crawl out of the ditch and start participating in motorsports.

Autoxscott

01-18-2007, 04:25 PM

Autoxscott

01-18-2007, 04:30 PM

Autoxscott (Scott Miller)

Autoxscott

01-18-2007, 04:32 PM

There that's 3. Now I hope I can post a new thread.

Autoxscott

Impreza01

01-23-2007, 06:13 PM

Why would people want to go with a higher roll resistance in the front? Wouldn't you want more roll resistance in the rear since the STI's DCCD puts out more power to the rear wheels?

silver arrow

01-23-2007, 06:24 PM

Why would people want to go with a higher roll resistance in the front? Wouldn't you want more roll resistance in the rear since the STI's DCCD puts out more power to the rear wheels?

Search "camber curve"

Impreza01

01-23-2007, 07:01 PM

Search "camber curve"

I know about the camber curve issue. However the rear suspension is also a strut suspension, so it should have camber curve issues too, no?

silver arrow

01-23-2007, 07:25 PM

I know about the camber curve issue. However the rear suspension is also a strut suspension, so it should have camber curve issues too, no?

Yes, but you want the rear to rotate. Rear grip isn't an issue in an STi.

DrBiggly

01-23-2007, 08:36 PM

I know about the camber curve issue. However the rear suspension is also a strut suspension, so it should have camber curve issues too, no?

The rear wheels aren't on a control arm; they are on lateral links. There might be a camber curve, but with stiffer springs, less weight, and the fact that they are not trying to change the direction of the car means that it is really not much of an issue.

I tend to treat the setup of most Subarus like a FWD car: Focus on front grip first and the rest will follow. Only with an STi one has the magic center diff so that changes what happens on power versus a FWD car. If Annie has two National titles and a ProSolo title, she certainly won't need driving advice and very little in the way of setup advice.

Annie,

I'd make this parts list:
-Zyzzyx coilovers. See if you can get them with 28s perhaps? If you're too impatient for those (depends on how partial you are to Koni) then go for Ohlins/etc. This is assuming you don't want to head into the stratosphere on strut costs and go for Motons/Penskes.
-Swaybars. Pair these to match up the coilovers, depending on if you like bigger bars and softer springs or vice versa. I like bigger bars and a little less spring personally as it means better daily driveability. Locally you will be fast either way. Whitelines are proven, any other suggestions sell a fraction as many.
-Endlinks. The stock are metal pillowball endlinks. They don't exactly have much give despite the huge aftermarket for other endlinks (WRXs and RSs have crappier endlinks in rear and sometimes front is why the market is so large.) If you don't install the rear bar correctly, it'll flip and bend the endlinks, so a purchase of rear endlinks may become necessary, but initially is not in my opinion. Your preference really.
-8" wide wheels, Enkei RPF01 for just over $1k for the set. Quite light really and for the money absolutely cannot be beat. You already know that the sky is the limit here too, but as you said you are keeping the stock seats I will presume you aren't looking for the last 5lbs off of the car.
-Yoko Advan Neovas. I can't recall if you need the 235, 240, or 245 as width changes a bit but height changes dramatically.
-Turbo-back exhaust. There are likely plenty of STX/STU Subarus in your area; nobody has proven to have more or less power by any significant amount with any of them to be honest. 1 high-flow cat of course required for STU.
-Before turbo exhaust: Better response and less lag without headers; a few pounds off the front of the car with them. Careful on trading that; I'd stick with stock. Port stock manifolds if you truly have the itch to optimize the exhaust further as that will make the best power and have the best response. Don't know that swapping the stock uppipe is necessary, I'd not bother for quite a while...if ever.
-K&N Typhoon intake. Subaru ripped it off and called it the SPT, down to the heat shielding. Slap it in, and then modify the shield to extend fully to the hood.
-Engine management. You're waiting here so the debate on that can begin later...and it's a pretty big debate for those options. :lol:

Other pieces for feel, not so much speed:

-Engine and transmission mounts. Go find Group N mounts, which are the rally homologated mounts. This will prevent the engine from whacking the hood on hard launches, etc.
-Trunk monkey. Always necessary.
-Bushings. You can swap out bushings for poly all over the place. Easiest and cheapest being the aforementioned steering rack. Previous models of Imprezas (before '05) had floating racks where swapping the jello factory bushings out for poly ones made a great deal of difference in mid-corner feedback and feel. 05 and later racks are bolted down on one side so the ROI is far more limited, but bushings are still made for it. Control arms, rear links, etc are all going to be limited ROI as well. (Note that the engine and transmission mounts will make a much greater difference than any other type replacement of bushing thus why I mentioned them earlier.)

Setup

-Maximize front camber first; don't be afraid of big numbers such as -3 to -4.5. If you really make a lot of time in your braking (and some do) then less here might be more.
-On the limit, it is basically going to push. If you eliminate that completely it should be undriveable in a lot of other places so just expect it.
-Lowering the car will make the camber curve quite awful. Lower as little as absolutely possible as the gains will absolutely not outweigh the positives. Front fenders are cut higher than the rear so the side profile always has the appearance of having the front of the car in the air.

Good luck. :)

-Biggly

Impreza01

01-23-2007, 09:55 PM

Banannie

01-23-2007, 10:23 PM

Biggly, thanks for the input.

I've been pestering poor Steve at zzyzx with every question under the sun and I think I'm about ready to write the check - he is just dang good when it comes to customer service. I really like the concept behind the Tarmac 2's but with them being an unknown, I don't feel like being the pioneer. I'm hoping if I end up with a known quantity setup that others have, that we can share setup information - while I have jackets and more trophies than I can keep track of, virtually all are in stock class, so I do need info/advice etc when branching into the wild world of non-stock... :)

And Impreza01, no worries on hijacking - it's interesting to see people ask and get answers to questions.

Hey all - I tried finding the 17x9 Kosei's on Tire Rack's website and it just doesn't want to let me find them - when I put in the '07 STI it doesn't give it as an option, and going right to the Kosei part of their website I can't look at sizing until I again put in the car info. Help??? :)

qcslvr30

01-23-2007, 11:29 PM

Annie, You have to call Luke at Tire Rack for the Kosei's. They are considered and "extreme" fitment and do not come up on the website. He'll know exactly what you want, I just ordered mine last month.

James

DrBiggly

01-24-2007, 12:48 AM

Hrmm, I guess I'm confused a little. When reading the STX set-ups, the national competitors were using higher rates of spring in the rear and larger swaybars in the rear. I figured if the WRX was setup like that by national competitors, then why not the STI given the additional power put out by the rear wheels compared with the front.

Annie: Sorry if I'm sorta hijacking your old thread, but on the otherhand at least something may come to light from this discussion.

The STX cars have a 50/50 power distribution and an open front diff. The STis have 35/65 or 46/54 or whatever number it is this year (it has changed each year) as does the programming for the DCCD as does the front diff (which thankfully isn't an open one.) The super high rear spring rates to treat the car like a true FWD isn't quite necessary on the STi. Swap springrates between front and rear for STX vs. STU and it becomes a closer (albeit still not correct) approximation of what is needed.

Biggly, thanks for the input.

I've been pestering poor Steve at zzyzx with every question under the sun and I think I'm about ready to write the check - he is just dang good when it comes to customer service. I really like the concept behind the Tarmac 2's but with them being an unknown, I don't feel like being the pioneer. I'm hoping if I end up with a known quantity setup that others have, that we can share setup information - while I have jackets and more trophies than I can keep track of, virtually all are in stock class, so I do need info/advice etc when branching into the wild world of non-stock... :)

Non-stock: Maximize the contact patch up front. Rather than using whatever you could in stock class, now you can use all of it. Then balance the car to make it rotate like you want. Some folks think that this is not the way to go and prefer to use less camber to better braking a bit, so this is all opinion for myself. Do the pyrometer testing/skidpad/etc to see what you like; it's all up to you. :)

-Biggly

Banannie

01-24-2007, 12:04 PM

Corey

01-24-2007, 12:06 PM

Does anyone have Luke's extension #?

Luke = Ext. 362

Banannie

01-24-2007, 12:13 PM

Cool, thanks!!

I have officially ordered the zzyzx's... yippee!

Swaybars are next...

grippgoat

01-24-2007, 12:14 PM

-Before turbo exhaust: Better response and less lag without headers; a few pounds off the front of the car with them. Careful on trading that; I'd stick with stock. Port stock manifolds if you truly have the itch to optimize the exhaust further as that will make the best power and have the best response. Don't know that swapping the stock uppipe is necessary, I'd not bother for quite a while...if ever.

Regarding the header, I think the "better response and less lag with stock manifold" argument only applies to 2.0L motors, and so do many other STI owners with headers. I have a Borla header (with GP Moto intake and GP Moto turbo-back), and while it's remotely concievable it may not spool quite as fast as a tuned car on stock and ported header, it DEFINITELY removes 10-11 pounds, scale-verified, from the front of the car, and I still make 320 ft-lbs wheel torque at 3500 rpms on the stock turbo, and have no problems powering out of corners from the lower end of the tach. Also, at the dyno day where I got tuned, as did bboy with his hydra and GT-Spec header, and a few turbo-back + utec + stock manifold STIs, bboy was I think 296hp, I was at 299hp, and all the stock-manifold STIs were down around 275-280hp. You could clearly see the difference the header made in the torque curve as well. The torque was holding higher by 500-1000rpms before it dropped off steeply.

As far as I'm concerned, on an STI, a header is a no-brainer. Good weight loss per dollar (not great, but good), decent power increase per dollar, and response is definitely not a problem.

Biggly also mentioned intake... I'll +1 that. A lot of people say there's no need to swap from the stock airbox, but even before I had engine management (after I had the header and turbo-back), I could feel increased response and less high-rpm power drop-off with my GP Moto intake. If I had to do it again, though, I'd probably get te K&N Typhoon like he mentioned.

-Mike

RainMaker

01-24-2007, 12:43 PM

As far as I'm concerned, on an STI, a header is a no-brainer. Good weight loss per dollar (not great, but good), decent power increase per dollar, and response is definitely not a problem.

While I agree with you on most fronts, I did get to do the big header comparo right here in Sunny Portland, and I learned alot about what makes or breaks headers.

The number one fear with using headers, increased lag, is legitimate. If you buy a unequal length header and place it on the car out of the box, you will see increased lag until the headers gets up to temperature. Unfortuantely for autX racers, this is half way into the course.

This can be almost entirely mitigated by a full wrap. I was so impressed by how much difference wrapping made on the dyno for the first couple pulls... I coated AND wrapped mine.

While this probably doesnt make a difference to track racers or street drivers, I can say that it would make a difference to an AutoX racer.

You can port the stock manifolds and add an Injen crosspipe for 65% of the power benefit of headers with no detriment to lag. Even after porting, theres enough big iron in the factory manifold that it retains heat all the way from when you drove to the course in the morning.

Chris

RainMaker

01-24-2007, 12:47 PM

Cool, thanks!!

I have officially ordered the zzyzx's... yippee!

Swaybars are next...

I *think* you might be the first ZZYZX owner in our region...

(I know Andy is working at being close behind... but as a GA/GB/Gwhatever driver, we'll only let him play with us "big people" GD drivers once in awhile :D )

thrdeye

01-24-2007, 01:25 PM

On my 2.0 STX car, I was very happy with my header after I wrapped it. It is coated inside and out and wrapped with thermo tec. Amazing differenc in power and stock-like spool qualities.

It is a vibrant/daddy's style header with uppipe

Banannie

01-24-2007, 04:14 PM

Ok, dumb newbie question - who do y'all order your whiteline swaybars from? Directly from Whiteline or from someone else?

Crash477

01-24-2007, 04:23 PM

go through www.boxer4racing.com Best place, and great guy!!

DrBiggly

01-24-2007, 04:25 PM

go through www.boxer4racing.com Best place, and great guy!!

Bah, you beat me to it. Dale is the man. :)

-Biggly

AtomicRacer

01-24-2007, 04:36 PM

Regarding the header, I think the "better response and less lag with stock manifold" argument only applies to 2.0L motors, and so do many other STI owners with headers. I have a Borla header (with GP Moto intake and GP Moto turbo-back), and while it's remotely concievable it may not spool quite as fast as a tuned car on stock and ported header, it DEFINITELY removes 10-11 pounds, scale-verified, from the front of the car, and I still make 320 ft-lbs wheel torque at 3500 rpms on the stock turbo, and have no problems powering out of corners from the lower end of the tach. Also, at the dyno day where I got tuned, as did bboy with his hydra and GT-Spec header, and a few turbo-back + utec + stock manifold STIs, bboy was I think 296hp, I was at 299hp, and all the stock-manifold STIs were down around 275-280hp. You could clearly see the difference the header made in the torque curve as well. The torque was holding higher by 500-1000rpms before it dropped off steeply.

As far as I'm concerned, on an STI, a header is a no-brainer. Good weight loss per dollar (not great, but good), decent power increase per dollar, and response is definitely not a problem.

Biggly also mentioned intake... I'll +1 that. A lot of people say there's no need to swap from the stock airbox, but even before I had engine management (after I had the header and turbo-back), I could feel increased response and less high-rpm power drop-off with my GP Moto intake. If I had to do it again, though, I'd probably get te K&N Typhoon like he mentioned.

-Mike

Completely disagree with using a header in an autocross environment. Compared to the stock cast iron manifold any header (including coated and wrapped) just doesn't retain heat well enough or fast enough to provide comperable throttle response.

Don't believe me? Ask Joel (BSP STi) why he isn't running a header any more.

-Paul

Banannie

01-24-2007, 04:41 PM

Cool...

thanks guys!

Banannie

01-24-2007, 04:45 PM

Ok, well, got the coilovers ordered and now the wheels/tires (although the color I want won't be in stock until March...).

Now I have to remind myself that I wasn't planning to compete in this car this year! DOH! :)

DrBiggly

01-24-2007, 04:49 PM

Completely disagree with using a header in an autocross environment. Compared to the stock cast iron manifold any header (including coated and wrapped) just doesn't retain heat well enough or fast enough to provide comperable throttle response.

Don't believe me? Ask Joel (BSP STi) why he isn't running a header any more.

-Paul

I'm with Paul here. It isn't the initial lag and total power output, but instead mid-throttle response and turbo response that cannot be measured on a dyno. The dyno will show basically identical results between the two on an STX or STU car on torque and horsepower numbers but that does not tell the whole story. I just did not go into it above as I would rather not write a ridiculous post and instead chose to exercise a specific level of concision. :)

edit: I would say headers are a go on an N/A car. I would also lean towards them for a lighter car (like a Honda) or even for certain Subarus; 2.5RS for example. But the 10/11lbs on the nose of the car aren't worth the time penalties incurred trying to dig out of odd turns with a header on a turbo car.

-Biggly

RainMaker

01-24-2007, 04:54 PM

(including coated and wrapped) just doesn't retain heat well enough or fast enough to provide comperable throttle response.

We did hours and hours of testing on both a dyno and logging on the street to show that a wrapped and coated header retains heat as well as the stock manifold. Sure, uncoated and unwrapped (or in my opinion even coated alone) will not give response like stock... but this is something I can back up with a large suite of numbers.

Now, if you start an autoX with the EGTs not at least where they would be after 5 or so minutes of idling, you are dealing with a cold up-pipe and hot-side anyways, meaning you are down on response to begin with.

While keeping the TMIC wet and cool (its important to wrap the turbine housing and use all the heat sheilding you can), the car should be idling while you are staging to keep things ready.

Chris

RainMaker

01-24-2007, 05:01 PM

but instead mid-throttle response and turbo response that cannot be measured on a dyno.

Complete Logs from the car on the street with each header (stock, ported, ported with crosspipe, EL, and unequal length) are here:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=974977

Also in the trend of being concise, I'll leave it at that... :)

thrdeye

01-24-2007, 05:15 PM

...yeah, both coated and wrapped feels just like stock to me as far as throttle response. I got some good coating from crucialracing and I did a very good job (if I do say so myself) of wrapping.

I will add that my particular header does have a velocity stack in the uppipe.

seattleswimboy

01-24-2007, 08:30 PM

Annie-

Are you going to take the car out to the slush even this Sunday so we can take a look at it?;)

bdi

01-24-2007, 08:42 PM

But doesnt adding all of these coatings and wrappings to headers negate the 10 lb weight loss?

RainMaker

01-24-2007, 10:00 PM

But doesnt adding all of these coatings and wrappings to headers negate the 10 lb weight loss?

I think my package of wrap and the coating they put on might have added up to 1-2 lbs at the most.

Banannie

01-24-2007, 10:27 PM

Annie-

Are you going to take the car out to the slush even this Sunday so we can take a look at it?;)

I'll be there in the afternoon, but will be driving Fast Mike's Solstice. My car will look remarkably like yours did when you bought it, other than the pearl white vs. aspen! :)

DougM

01-25-2007, 02:45 AM

I *think* you might be the first ZZYZX owner in our region...

I think David Lewis is one of the first STi guys to run the zzyyyyzzzxxx coilovers. Annie, you should hit him up. (he's on here sometimes as well). I can't remember but Dick Willy might have them as well.

did anyone mention brake upgrades? I really didn't care much for the pedal feel when I first had my STi... some better pads and steel brake lines were easy and helped some... maybe they fixed the gooey master cylinder bracket after 2004?? ...you can't fuss with that in STU.

and I'll reiterate, the stock seats absolutely suck, you'll want something to strap you down, for sure.

afpdl

01-25-2007, 04:49 AM

maybe they fixed the gooey master cylinder bracket after 2004?? ...you can't fuss with that in STU.

No, they fixed the gooey wheel bearings after 2004.

silver arrow

01-25-2007, 12:56 PM

I think David Lewis is one of the first STi guys to run the zzyyyyzzzxxx coilovers. Annie, you should hit him up. (he's on here sometimes as well). I can't remember but Dick Willy might have them as well.

did anyone mention brake upgrades? I really didn't care much for the pedal feel when I first had my STi... some better pads and steel brake lines were easy and helped some... maybe they fixed the gooey master cylinder bracket after 2004?? ...you can't fuss with that in STU.

and I'll reiterate, the stock seats absolutely suck, you'll want something to strap you down, for sure.

I have the Schroth quik connect belts and they work pretty well. Much cheaper than seats and I didn't want to change the car radically from stock loosing resale when I eventually sell it.

AtomicRacer

01-25-2007, 01:11 PM

Complete Logs from the car on the street with each header (stock, ported, ported with crosspipe, EL, and unequal length) are here:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=974977

Also in the trend of being concise, I'll leave it at that... :)

I have been following this thread for some time and really like the testing you did here. I still feel though that the factory cast iron exhaust manifold heats up the quickest and retains heat the best in an autocross environment.

If you were to test and record EGT's at the uppipe while simulating an autocross that would be conclusive, at least from a numbers/data gathing stand point.

Again, the testing you did was excellent and I really appreciate the work you did.

-Paul

ps: when are you going to do the typhoon intake?

RainMaker

01-25-2007, 01:18 PM

did anyone mention brake upgrades? I really didn't care much for the pedal feel when I first had my STi... some better pads and steel brake lines were easy and helped some... maybe they fixed the gooey master cylinder bracket after 2004?? ...you can't fuss with that in STU..

I don't know ofhand whats open in STU for brakes. In SM I plan on a set of the Brakeman rotors in the front (10lbs a corner lighter), some braided lines, and a Perrin or Cusco MC bracket. Perrin is local here so I would typically go pick one up from him personally...

Chris

thrdeye

01-25-2007, 01:20 PM

For brakes on our STU STi, we just did some HP+ pads and steel lines, w/ Valvoline SuperSyn brake fluid.

RainMaker

01-25-2007, 01:24 PM

ps: when are you going to do the typhoon intake?

I got soooooo disenchanted with intakes on a stage 2 car. I was really hoping one of the cold air intakes would do something, but when we put the Injen on, it goofed up things and then we put the K&N on, logged it on the street, adn concluded that it ALSO goofed things up... so we got too lazy to go dyno what we knew was screwy.

Our big conclusion was that intakes make sense for folks who are going to do alot of street tuning using Street Tuner or similar. If you are locked into the stock intake calibration, every cold air intake out there seems to simulate it pretty poorly. If you make enough power to peg the stock MAF housing, then you should look into the APS 70mm CAI, the Cobb 70mm Legacy short-ram, or in limited cases the Injen CAI (gives you about 5% more headroom).

Chris

seattleswimboy

01-25-2007, 02:08 PM

Has anyone done any data logging of the K&N typhoon short ram intake with heat shielding in an autocross environment?
I would be interested to see if it causes a power lose because of heat soak while waiting in grid on a warm summer day.

Solotoy

01-25-2007, 02:53 PM

I think David Lewis is one of the first STi guys to run the zzyyyyzzzxxx coilovers. Annie, you should hit him up. (he's on here sometimes as well). I can't remember but Dick Willy might have them as well.

David and Dick do not run Zzyzx. They do however run Koni 8611's in custom housings built with Ground Control bits and pieces. They'd be a good resource for setup info on the 8611's.

AtomicRacer

01-25-2007, 03:15 PM

I got soooooo disenchanted with intakes on a stage 2 car. I was really hoping one of the cold air intakes would do something, but when we put the Injen on, it goofed up things and then we put the K&N on, logged it on the street, adn concluded that it ALSO goofed things up... so we got too lazy to go dyno what we knew was screwy.

Our big conclusion was that intakes make sense for folks who are going to do alot of street tuning using Street Tuner or similar. If you are locked into the stock intake calibration, every cold air intake out there seems to simulate it pretty poorly. If you make enough power to peg the stock MAF housing, then you should look into the APS 70mm CAI, the Cobb 70mm Legacy short-ram, or in limited cases the Injen CAI (gives you about 5% more headroom).

Chris

I have a typhoon (that is why I wanted to see your test on it) but I also have a custom tune (pro tuned). So if there were any anomolies I didn't get a chance to discover them. As a "tuned" stage 2 car it runs pretty good. I need to get it dynoed again to see where it is at now though.

Here are my engine mods (STU legal)

APS 3" TBE w/cat
K&N Typhoon intake
Perrin pulley
Cobb AP ver1 with protune

-Paul

RainMaker

01-25-2007, 03:18 PM

David and Dick do not run Zzyzx. They do however run Koni 8611's in custom housings built with Ground Control bits and pieces. They'd be a good resource for setup info on the 8611's.

The ground control 8611 setup is pretty compelling for a race-car. They also sell the Advanced Design dampeners too.

The problem that I have "heard" though is that the GC stuff is a bit noisier and harsher for everyday driving than the ZZYZX.

If you drive the car everyday, it might be worth the ~$1000 extra for the ZZYZX stuff. If its just a pure racecar, the GC stuff might be a good way to save $.

Chris

BlkWRXWag

01-25-2007, 03:18 PM

Here are my engine mods (STU legal)

APS 3" TBE w/cat
K&N Typhoon intake
Perrin pulley
Cobb AP ver1 with protune

-Paul

What are your non-legal STU mods?

:D

thrdeye

01-25-2007, 03:51 PM

What are your non-legal STU mods?

:D

:lol:

AtomicRacer

01-25-2007, 05:02 PM

What are your non-legal STU mods?

:D

NoS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BlkWRXWag

01-25-2007, 05:08 PM

Bring it with you in March would you - we might need it!

thrdeye

01-25-2007, 05:39 PM

Can I borrow a 175 jet?

silver arrow

01-25-2007, 05:40 PM

NoS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

spelled it wrong, it's NNNNNNNNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWZZZZZ :lol:

Crash477

01-25-2007, 08:28 PM

Brakes do need upgrading. The stopping power is fine, but the pedal feel isnt great. I plan to get some SS lines and Hawk HP+ pads too.

Banannie

01-25-2007, 08:35 PM

Cool, thanks guys on the brake info. Which SS lines do people use? I'll probably do that when I get the coilovers put on...

Crash477

01-25-2007, 08:39 PM

www.boxer4racing.com has a few.. I know Russell makes some, and so does Stoptech and Goodridge. All are about the same. Im going to go with Russell and speed bleeders

DougM

01-25-2007, 08:48 PM

Annie, we had Goodridge lines and Carbotech Bobcat pads on ours. oh, and I have a full set of speedbleeders, brand new, never used, if you're interested...

AtomicRacer

01-25-2007, 11:06 PM

Goodridge lines and Hawk pads (HP+). Hawk works like a charm for autocross and they pay contingency.

-Paul

DrBiggly

01-26-2007, 12:19 AM

What are your non-legal STU mods?

:D

Under the hood in plain sight is the best place; that's where mine are. :D

-Biggly

zzyzx

01-26-2007, 02:00 AM

The ground control 8611 setup is pretty compelling for a race-car. They also sell the Advanced Design dampeners too.

The problem that I have "heard" though is that the GC stuff is a bit noisier and harsher for everyday driving than the ZZYZX.

If you drive the car everyday, it might be worth the ~$1000 extra for the ZZYZX stuff. If its just a pure racecar, the GC stuff might be a good way to save $.

Chris

All I'm going to say is that my frustration with GCs 8611 based coilovers was inspiration to design and build my own.

You know, turning lemons into lemonade or something like that... :lol:

Dieman

01-26-2007, 02:12 AM

All I'm going to say is that my frustration with GCs 8611 based coilovers was inspiration to design and build my own.

You know, turning lemons into lemonade or something like that... :lol:

Steve I tried calling you back at Warren's earlier but he said you had already left....

Annie, welcome to the ZZYZX family!!! I have them on my evo. 40+ thousand miles of daily driving(snow, ice, missouri roads!!!) and I just gave them back to Steve the change the color on the anodizing for this season. They still looked and worked great when I pulled them off the car yesterday. They also worked well enough to let my co-driver run FTD on Wed. at nationals last year. Other than that if you need help tuning that car of yours let Steve know. He has a decent hook-up with that as well. Not to mention the fact that nothing improves the tuning expierence like standing next to a shop full of Ferrari's, and Lamborghini's while your car is getting tuned.

Crash477

02-15-2007, 11:06 PM

Well I can change mine now..
Suspension:
Tein Flex coilovers, with Noltec camber caster plates. Whiteline 27mm front and rear sway bars, with the rear hardened mounts and alloy endlinks. STi Group-N engine mounts, and Superpro rear diff bushings.

Power: Stock for now, but I am working on a TBE..

Call_me_Tom

02-16-2007, 11:47 PM

1. Engine: GroupN Motor Mounts, SPT Intake w/heatshield
2. Exhaust: Helix Catted DP w/mech CEL fix, Greddy SP2 Catback
3. Suspension: AST Sportline II Coilovers, Whiteline 27-29mm FSB, Whiteline R. Camber Bolts, Kartboy R. Endlinks, GTspec F&R Strutbars, RCE Lowering F. Camber Plates
4. Alignment: F. Camber -1.5, R. Camber -0.5, F&R Toe 0
5. Tires: Pirelli PZero Rosso 235/45-17
6. Brakes: Hawk HPS Pads, Goodridge SS Lines, Motul RBF600 Fluid

Oldalfaguy

02-17-2007, 10:59 AM

I play in BSP :p

Why did you pick BSP as opposed to STU. Just curious...

waktasz

02-17-2007, 02:05 PM

Why did you pick BSP as opposed to STU. Just curious...

I can guess. Boooost! And R tires.

Gonz#75

02-25-2007, 10:01 PM

1. Engine: Grounding kit
2. Exhaust: Stock
3. Suspension: WL 27-29 FSB, WL 24-26 RSB, KB rear links, all KB & TIC bushings. On the way: RCE Tarmac II's, RCE front camber plates, Cusco rear camber plates
4. Alignment: haven't done it yet
5. Tires: 17x9 5Zigen FN01R-C w/245/40 Hankook RS2
6. Brakes: Hawk HP+ Pads, Goodridge SS Lines, Super Blue fluid

legacy2005

02-27-2007, 12:12 AM

its tire buying time for the next season of autox. did anybody run into any rubbing issues running the 245/45/17 RT 615's. ive been looking at those recently and had wanted to pick up a set, but dont want to rub.

Crash477

02-27-2007, 09:00 AM

I had no rubbing with those tires inthat size with my setup.. see my previous post for setup

silver arrow

02-27-2007, 12:15 PM

DELTA_Rotary

03-09-2007, 11:28 AM

Anybody running ADVAN Neova's? I checked out last years nationals results and it seemed almost everyone was running them.

bdi

03-09-2007, 07:55 PM

Anybody running ADVAN Neova's? I checked out last years nationals results and it seemed almost everyone was running them.

Yea there are a bunch of people running them. They are considered to be the best ST* tire by most. But they cost big bucks (210 or so a piece).

DrewSTi

03-11-2007, 01:16 AM

I'm starting to get my car setup for STU. Why doesn't anybody run a 255 tire? It will fit on an 05 STi.

silver arrow

03-11-2007, 01:18 AM

I'm starting to get my car setup for STU. Why doesn't anybody run a 255 tire? It will fit on an 05 STi.

Because 245 is the largest allowed on AWD cars in STU. ;)

bdi

03-11-2007, 03:09 AM

Because 245 is the largest allowed on AWD cars in STU. ;)

Yup Yup....gotta love rules!:rolleyes:

DrewSTi

03-11-2007, 10:47 AM

Next mod... 07 rule book

silver arrow

03-11-2007, 11:12 AM

Next mod... 07 rule book

:lol: good start. You can get some good ideas in this thread too.

DrewSTi

03-14-2007, 10:31 PM

whats a better tire size? 245/40/17 or 245/45/17

Crash477

03-14-2007, 10:41 PM

Depends on the course .

silver arrow

03-14-2007, 11:08 PM

Yup Yup....gotta love rules!:rolleyes:
I want more tire, though EVO's can fit more rubber than STI's can, so it might not be a good thing to wish for.

DrewSTi

03-15-2007, 08:51 PM

Alright, the courses I run are usally about 30sec at one venue and 60sec at another. Give or take 10 seconds. Which one would give me better gearing to stay in second gear, 245/45?

BlkWRXWag

03-15-2007, 08:57 PM

Alright, the courses I run are usally about 30sec at one venue and 60sec at another. Give or take 10 seconds. Which one would give me better gearing to stay in second gear, 245/45?

Depends on the course:D

AndrewSS

03-15-2007, 10:25 PM

245/45/17 vs 245/40/17... the 45 will give you taller gearing.

makofoto

03-16-2007, 02:24 AM

Most drivers feel that if you have to shift to third, you might as well do it earlier with the 40 series tires ... plus you get a stiffer side wall and lowering.

DrewSTi

03-16-2007, 08:09 AM

I think I might stick with the 45 series, not shifting 3rd and then later back to 2nd is one less thing to concentrate on. I loved my Civic Si that thing never ran out of 2nd even with 205/40/15s.

ghostshadow

03-16-2007, 10:43 AM

I think I might stick with the 45 series, not shifting 3rd and then later back to 2nd is one less thing to concentrate on. I loved my Civic Si that thing never ran out of 2nd even with 205/40/15s.

like mako said- there's a good chance you're gonna need 3rd anyway depending on the course. especially in MA, you're probably running at devens.

Chiketkd

03-16-2007, 11:07 AM

I think I might stick with the 45 series, not shifting 3rd and then later back to 2nd is one less thing to concentrate on.
The 245/45/17 tire isn't going to get you that much more speed in 2nd gear, but it can be helpful on tigther courses.

The first three gears in an '04-'06 STi are:

1st--3.636
2nd--2.375
3rd--1.761

I know redline is 7,000rpms and I think fuel cut occurs at 7,100rpms (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). Using 245/40/17 tires, max speed in each gear: 1st = 37mph, 2nd = 56mph, 3rd = 76mph. Using 245/45/17 tires, max speed in each gear: 1st = 38mph, 2nd = 59mph, 3rd = 79mph.

Food for thought...

makofoto

03-16-2007, 12:37 PM

Chiketkd

03-16-2007, 12:45 PM

Yup, you WILL end up having to shift to 3rd ... if you just ride the rev limiter in 2nd, you will end up holding yourself back eventually. When you get engine managment you can also increase your rev limiter +500 ... which in the low gears, for short bursts is not considered harmful.
If the rev limit is increased to 7,600rpms, using 245/45/17 tires:

1st = 41mph
2nd = 63mph
3rd = 85mph

That's almost perfect right there - as speeds on an SCCA legal course, should not exceed 65mph for *SP cars.

Rippen Griffen

03-16-2007, 01:20 PM

1. Engine - K&N air filter, STi TMIC
2. Exhaust - Vishnu Uppipe - TurboXS steathback - catted, Sti Axleback
3. Suspension - STi Rear Sway
4. Alignment - Stock
5. Tires - Azenis 205/55 - 16

bdi

03-16-2007, 01:30 PM

I want more tire, though EVO's can fit more rubber than STI's can, so it might not be a good thing to wish for.

True that but if we were to ever get a tire increase i dont think it would be anything bigger than a 255...which we can fit easily.

silver arrow

03-16-2007, 04:48 PM

silver arrow

03-16-2007, 04:50 PM

If the rev limit is increased to 7,600rpms, using 245/45/17 tires:

1st = 41mph
2nd = 63mph
3rd = 85mph

That's almost perfect right there - as speeds on an SCCA legal course, should not exceed 65mph for *SP cars.

That's exactly what I am doing. I run 245/45/17 and am having the rev limiter raised to 7600 rpm. Most of our courses this year are tight runway stuff, not getting into 3rd.

OT, does anyone else get really loose in fast 3rd gear sweepers? I can have my car dialed and when I get into third gear and the speeds increase the car gets really loose. Time for a wing that provides better downforce than the stocker I think.

alltracin

03-16-2007, 05:06 PM

1. Engine - K&N air filter, STi TMIC
2. Exhaust - Vishnu Uppipe - TurboXS steathback - catted, Sti Axleback
3. Suspension - STi Rear Sway
4. Alignment - Stock
5. Tires - Azenis 205/55 - 16
That TMIC puts you in ESP :confused:

Chiketkd

03-16-2007, 05:27 PM

That TMIC puts you in ESP :confused:
In STX & STU, aren't you allowed to modify everything up to (but not including) the throttle body?

Edit: Found it, here it is under the rules for STS (STX & STU are covered under these rules as well):

14.10 ENGINE
C. The air intake system up to, but not including, the engine inlet
may be modified or replaced. The engine inlet is the throttle body,
carburetor, compressor inlet, or intake manifold, whichever
comes first. The existing structure of the car may not be modified
for the passage of ducting from the air cleaner to the engine inlet.
Holes may be drilled for mounting. Emissions or engine management
components in the air intake system, such as a PCV valve,
or mass airflow sensor, may not be removed, modified, or replaced,
and must retain their original function along the flow path.

Warp3

03-16-2007, 05:38 PM

In STX & STU, aren't you allowed to modify everything up to (but not including) the throttle body?

Edit: Found it, here it is under the rules for STS (STX & STU are covered under these rules as well):

If that was the case then Street Prepared wouldn't explicitly allow intercooler modification. IIRC, the IC is considered part of the turbo system, not part of the intake.

EDIT: Look farther down in 14.10E:

E. The engine management system parameters and operation may
be modified only via the methods listed below. Any and all modifications
must meet or exceed the applicable US DOT emissions
standards for the year, make, and model of the car. These allowances
also apply to forced induction cars, except that no changes
to standard boost levels, intercoolers, or boost controls are permitted.
Boost changes indirectly resulting from allowed modifications
are permissible, but directly altering or modifying the boost
or turbo controls, either mechanically or electronically, is strictly
prohibited.

waktasz

03-16-2007, 05:41 PM

14.10 ENGINE
C. The air intake system up to, but not including, the engine inlet
may be modified or replaced. The engine inlet is the throttle body,
carburetor, compressor inlet, or intake manifold, whichever
comes first. The existing structure of the car may not be modified
for the passage of ducting from the air cleaner to the engine inlet.
Holes may be drilled for mounting. Emissions or engine management
components in the air intake system, such as a PCV valve,
or mass airflow sensor, may not be removed, modified, or replaced,
and must retain their original function along the flow path.

Everything up to the compressor inlet.

PhilC

03-16-2007, 05:43 PM

"The engine inlet is the throttle body, carburetor, compressor inlet, or intake manifold whichever comes first." On a Subaru the compressor inlet comes first in the air stream before the intercooler so therefore no intercooler modifications in ST*

Rippen Griffen

03-17-2007, 01:14 AM

Thanks guys, I will swap out the TMIC this weekend before the autox. I really don't need the bigger STi TMIC unless I put a bigger turbo on the car. :p

Banannie

03-19-2007, 04:56 PM

Ok, reviving this thread from page 2,439 :)

My wheels/tires are finally getting delivered this week.

Steve (last I heard) said my coilovers will arrive hopefully the first week or so of April

Gotta get off my rear and get the swaybars ordered

So since I did get the ECU reflash from the dealer to help with the dreaded hesitation issue, I'm less scared to start on Engine Management for the car.

For all y'all who are PDX Tuning folks - have you been happy with their tunes? I know little about them. I also will probably want to do a full exhaust at the same time - is it best to get it from them, or what is the best setup these days?

Thanks guys!!!

Annie

DougM

03-19-2007, 05:09 PM

hey Annie, here's that intake delete elbow I was mentioning:
http://www.rallitek.com/hiinel.html

if you're going full exhaust with a tune you'd probably want a short-ram or something similar though (PDX would be a great resource for that, and you're other needs). oh, btw, Karl/Amy, Dick, myself, David... just about all of us have been to PDX. Karl and Amy just got back from there and they're still tickled pink about it.

Banannie

03-19-2007, 06:58 PM

DrewSTi

03-19-2007, 07:15 PM

Yup, you WILL end up having to shift to 3rd ... if you just ride the rev limiter in 2nd, you will end up holding yourself back eventually. When you get engine managment you can also increase your rev limiter +500 ... which in the low gears, for short bursts is not considered harmful.

Well, I run at Devens, but I also run at NHIS which for auto-x is the size of a postage stamp. So the only real way to know is to try. Tires are tires, easy to change. I have an AP but am going to have to run the stock map unless I can find and STU map that doesn't need 100 octane fuel.

Banannie

03-19-2007, 07:17 PM

Ok, on the Boxer4racing site there are multiple Whiteline bars available -

Just to make sure I get the right ones - should I be getting the "race" front and the standard adjustable rear?

Here's what's listed:

Adjustable Rear Sway Bar for WRX and STi. Adjust from 20-22-24mm.

Adjustable Front Sway Bar for WRX and STi. Adjust from 22mm.

Adjustable Front Sway Bar 'Race' 27mm for WRX and STi

Adjustable Rear Sway Bar 'Race' 27mm for WRX and STi

SWortham

03-19-2007, 07:39 PM

06 STI
1. Stock engine
2. COBB DP
3. Stock struts in front, Ohlins struts in rear, RCE springs, RCE non-lowering camber plates, Group N rear mounts, stock sways
4. -2.0 F 0 toe, -1.7 R 0 toe
5. 245 45 17 Falken Azenis RT615's

Will soon be changing to this:
1. Stock engine
2. COBB DP
3. Ohlins struts all around, stock springs, RCE lowering camber plates, Group N rear mounts, Whiteline 24mm sways front & rear w/ Kartboy endlinks
4. -2.3 F 0 toe, -1.5 R 0 toe
5. 245 45 17 Falken Azenis RT615's

AndrewSS

03-19-2007, 08:36 PM

Crash477

03-19-2007, 08:39 PM

I run both the 27mm Whiteline race bars, front and rear.

Scoobie Doogie

03-19-2007, 09:21 PM

New mod>>>>>Bought an Evo. :lol:

Actually I came VERY close to picking up an 07 STI limited but the Mitsu dealer gave
me such a killer price on an Evo RS I couldn't pass it up.

Dave Mac

silver arrow

03-19-2007, 09:27 PM

I run both the 27mm Whiteline race bars, front and rear.

Yeah, but you have the word crash in your user name. :lol:

Nis01

03-19-2007, 10:05 PM

New mod>>>>>Bought an Evo. :lol:

Actually I came VERY close to picking up an 07 STI limited but the Mitsu dealer gave
me such a killer price on an Evo RS I couldn't pass it up.

Dave Mac

At least you got it in White. I can't shame you for that one. :lol:

Quick question for those guys running exhaust, most don't have any EM marked so does that mean you are running stock without any major problems?

Crash477

03-19-2007, 11:21 PM

Yeah, but you have the word crash in your user name. :lol:It actually feels very stable, but tossable. I love it!

DougM

03-19-2007, 11:58 PM

Annie, we ran the "race" front bar and the standard adjustable rear. for the rear we also had length adjustable drop links from Poltec. http://www.poltec.us/products/subaru/suspension/rear_end_links/1a-df004.htm

as for STU tuners at PDX.. Jarrad Bowen and Tim Baily tuned ours

Banannie

03-20-2007, 12:19 AM

Thanks Doug! :) :)

adhowe70

03-20-2007, 12:31 AM

Wait... Annie still owns this car? Whoa.

Scoobie Doogie

03-20-2007, 01:58 AM

Wait... Annie still owns this car? Whoa.

Ha! So funny, so true.

Dave Mac

Solotoy

03-20-2007, 02:37 AM

Thanks Doug! Is there one particular person at PDX that people like working with for SCCA-legal tunes vs the average-joe-off-the-street tunes? I was hoping to e-mail them my laundry list of questions and see what they say. :)

Tim, one of the founders/owners of PDX, tuned our car. It's making some pretty good numbers. Now we need to get the suspension stuff all sorted out.

DrewSTi

03-20-2007, 07:39 AM

So on the STi, 27mm bar out front and the stock rear bar in back is not too much of a difference in strenght for the car? I was worried about that and was only planing to run a 24mm in front. However this is what the rest of my parts are looking like. Haven't run the car like this but here are the parts.

Cobb SF intake (installed)
Maddad V2 downpipe, ApexI WS Noir Catback (installed)
Zeal V6 Coilovers with 12k10k or 8k option, front and rear camber plates (not installed)
FSB? rear stock
Stock gold bbs wrapped in Azenis ST-615 245/45/r17 (not installed)
Kartboy or Whiteline endlinks? (still undecided)
Don't know the align specs yet
I have a Cobb AP but unless I find some one that has s map or makes a STU map for me, I have to run the stock map.

bdi

03-20-2007, 09:24 AM