I'm looking to build a 2.4L from an EJ22T block. So I want to bore it 0.02" over and that will get me to a 2.35L which is close enough. Which pistons to use, i haven't really decided. Rods will be eagle, they are rated at 700hp from the factory, and i've seen them prove themselves in high hp dsm's. The crank in the EJ22t is forged so that will stay. It will be capped off with a set of ej205 heads ported and polished with a nice valvetrain upgrade. I think 272's or 280's with a spring kit and stainless oversized valves. Does anyone have any suggestions on other parts (engine wise) that may be needed to get me to the 600hp mark safely?

Budget So far:

Short Block

EJ22 Block $500??
Eagle Rods $350
forged pistons ~$500
Cobb Tuning main bearings $250
Cobb Tuning rod bearings $100
ARP 11mm head studs $185
Full OEM gasket kit $350

Heads

Custom CNC porting NJIT $free
Crower Cams $850
Ferrea spring kit $650

Misc. machine work $400

and $4500 later, i need sponsors :eek: , so if anyone sees a way i can save some money without sacrificing quality and or get some sponsors please let me know.... thanks guys in advance......

ps- i edited the first post so some stuff below pretaining to the original plan may not make sense, just ignore it, i ditched the EJ205 and thats all that really matters :lol:

The darton 100mm sleeves are for the 2.5L block I believe.

The darton 100mm sleeves are for the 2.5L block I believe.

i was told by the darton rep. that they would also work in the EJ205....

Why would you want a short stroke 2.4L? Why not use the 2.5L crank? Stroke=torque.

In fact, why not just buy a bare 257 and drop in rods and pistons? Sleeves seem like overkill as I haven't heard of anyone cracking one (even the super thing 257 ones)?

Just my thoughts.

My goal with this engine is to be able to rev it very high like the 302ci V8s of the late 60's that could rev well past 9 grand.....that way i will be able to flow a great amount of cfm through the engine..... ~1150cfm that is....

Why would you want a short stroke 2.4L? Why not use the 2.5L crank? Stroke=torque.

In fact, why not just buy a bare 257 and drop in rods and pistons? Sleeves seem like overkill as I haven't heard of anyone cracking one (even the super thing 257 ones)?

Just my thoughts.

Shorter stroke = Quicker Response

Also capable of higher RPM

Shorter stroke = Quicker Response

Also capable of higher RPM
Why spin to 8K, when you can make the same power at 6K? Look at the EJ207 vs EJ257 with a medium turbo like a GT3076R. The tq and response is so much better. I don't get the facination with revs (and I ran my built B18C5 to 9K daily). But again, that's just my take.

Good luck.

Why spin to 8K, when you can make the same power at 6K? Look at the EJ207 vs EJ257 with a medium turbo like a GT3076R. The tq and response is so much better. I don't get the facination with revs (and I ran my built B18C5 to 9K daily). But again, that's just my take.

Good luck.

Revs are an addiction, you may not really need it, but you sure as hell want it..... plus this is going to be a drag car, twin turbo, and eventually about twice as much hp as im going for now. I would like to learn how to drive the car well with the high rpms before then...... so basically this engine is a big test run.... One to get me sponsored, two to get me to be able to drive a very quick car with confidence. Thanks for the support though.

Eric

ejsportcom - If you're looking to rev like that, ditch the Eagle rods. Get yourself a set of Carillos, Pauters, Olivers, Cosworth, Arrow etc. If you can spring for it, get the Ti versions. Make sure your entire rotating assembly is balanced.

MY opinion

Is this for an enduarnce motor or for a drag type applications. If you want High RPM, I don't see point in filling it and sleeving it. Run a slight overbore on the 205 and fill it. If you want to run the 100mm bore then furnace braze the sleeves instead of the normal type of adhesion. Sleeving and filling is a little redundant for the kind of power you'll end up making and a crap load more money than you have to spend.

Brad

GTBGuy I'll definately look into that, although i have seen eagle rods run on my friends 2.4L dsm motor at 602whp and 8500rpm+ for a good long time and no problems, so we'll see what the budget allows.

MY opinion

Is this for an enduarnce motor or for a drag type applications. If you want High RPM, I don't see point in filling it and sleeving it. Run a slight overbore on the 205 and fill it. If you want to run the 100mm bore then furnace braze the sleeves instead of the normal type of adhesion. Sleeving and filling is a little redundant for the kind of power you'll end up making and a crap load more money than you have to spend.

Brad

To be honest with you (i know im going to get flamed for this) but this engine will be daily driven, babied on the street of course, and raced on the weekends. Thats why I'm so conserned with reliability. Whats the max bore that i could run with this being considered? Because if I could drop the sleeving idea that would save a get deal of money ($1050 to be exact).

Eric

So I was doing some research on the 2.2L block and it turns out that i could just bore it 0.020" and achieve the same displacement that I was looking for. This is according to Quirt Crawford...... Apparently it also comes with a forged crank which is nice. Does anyone know how much a used 89'-94' 2.2L block goes for and or have one lying around? It would save me quite a bit of money on this build, i think.....

Eric

ps- whats the engine code for it EJ22G?

i think ej22b or g, one of those. i have 2, and you can't have them. :)

2.2 blocks are all over the place between $250 and $1300. A general rule of thumb would probably be to not pay more then about $800 for a sub 100k mile used shortblock. I think you can get the shortblock new from SOA for around $1500.

If you do go the route of a 2.2t build Wiseco has .020 over forged pistons designed for use with the Forged Phase I EJ25 NA motor and rods. You can get them from Summit Racing for under $500. My parts are on order and will be assembled hopefully before the beginning of summer. I ordered a set of EJ25 Phase I Pauter Rods to go along with it. They are around $750 but well worth the strength.

The pistons are meant to be used with 2.5 Phase I DOHC heads and will yield around a 2.4 with 8.5:1 compression. Should be a lot cheaper then having the 205 sleeved and deck closed. Plus the 2.2t block is made of medium pressure cast aluminum. Metal standards say that this type of casting leaves less trapped air bubbles and a densor cast able to withstand a lot more heat. Don't forget about the piston oil squirters that will cool the back of the pistons.

Can you tell I am 100% biased towards the 2.2t block;)

Brad

2.2 blocks are all over the place between $250 and $1300. A general rule of thumb would probably be to not pay more then about $800 for a sub 100k mile used shortblock. I think you can get the shortblock new from SOA for around $1500.

If you do go the route of a 2.2t build Wiseco has .020 over forged pistons designed for use with the Forged Phase I EJ25 NA motor and rods. You can get them from Summit Racing for under $500. My parts are on order and will be assembled hopefully before the beginning of summer. I ordered a set of EJ25 Phase I Pauter Rods to go along with it. They are around $750 but well worth the strength.

The pistons are meant to be used with 2.5 Phase I DOHC heads and will yield around a 2.4 with 8.5:1 compression. Should be a lot cheaper then having the 205 sleeved and deck closed. Plus the 2.2t block is made of medium pressure cast aluminum. Metal standards say that this type of casting leaves less trapped air bubbles and a densor cast able to withstand a lot more heat. Don't forget about the piston oil squirters that will cool the back of the pistons.

Can you tell I am 100% biased towards the 2.2t block;)

Brad

well you have me sold, now i just need to find one. BensonRST you sure you don't want to let one of them go? Just think you could be supplying the first 4cyl suby block into the 6's :lol:

One of the best places to look for an ej22t block or engine is ebay
here is one: EJ22T (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EJ22T-Subaru-Legacy-Turbo-shortblock-for-WRX-STi-fun_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ107063QQitemZ462605 9095QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW)

This person knows what they have so it might go for 800+

keep searching ebay I got one for 450.

One of the best places to look for an ej22t block or engine is ebay
here is one: EJ22T (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EJ22T-Subaru-Legacy-Turbo-shortblock-for-WRX-STi-fun_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ107063QQitemZ462605 9095QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW)

This person knows what they have so it might go for 800+

keep searching ebay I got one for 450.

I'll have to keep an eye out, thanks

I don't think i would buy one for more then $500 or so, cause at that point i would just buy the whole car, and swap in the ej20 i have sitting in my garage for a pretty cool beater :banana:

EJ22T = USDM EJ22 turbo of old. Phase I crank, piston squirters. closed deck.
EJ22G does not exist (that I know of. at least not in the US.)
EJ22B = was the supercar motor. phase II crank, no piston squirters. closed deck.

Also, some things to consider:

If you're using the EJ22T block for a high rpm/high hp build, you might want the squirters out. It's said that alot of people take them out, because they rob you of hp at high hp builds. I wouldn't *really* know, but people talk about it alot. I've always though they would help with cooling and so it would be WORTH having them in.

Now, have you thought of this?

Use a really high quality EJ25 piston. There's a couple mm's difference between the two types of pistons... you'd get something like this...

EJ22T block bored to 99.5 or 100mm
STi pistons or replacements (proven quality)
custom long rods * (133.61mm for example)
same style crank at 75mm

1. you wouldn't need to purchase custom pistons that have a bigger wrist pin offset. you'd basically be making EJ20/EJ22T pistons just wider if you purchase custom pistons.
2. you would need to pay for custom rods, but the advantages would be clear. higher revving capability, and more time at TDC.
3. nobody would really be able to say you're following a trendy pack, AFAIK, I'm the first person on nasioc to post this information with this idea, but hell, I don't have the money, so I've never done it.

Or, for the sake of cost, you could purchase an EJ257 block. Tried and tested performance factor. Get some crawford EJ257 pistons that he makes specifically to match the EJ207 head chamber, and you'd actually have a really sweet combo. (IMO) that would be stock EJ257 with custom pistons to match the head chamber. also, with lighter weight internals in an engine like the EJ257, there is no reason why the block/crank/internals couldn't handle higher revving. plus, you'd have more stroke, and more displacement.

another thing to consider. It's arguable that the phase II crank is better designed. I won't tell you to lay off the block or anything, but in a high hp build, you may want the better designed crank/block combo of something like an EJ257 (for example ;) ) people have been modifying the EJ22T to accept the same thrust bearing location of a phase II crank, so they could run a phase II 75 or 79mm stroke. But that's ALOT of money, when another block of said smaller cost could be had.

you know, I did see somewhere that a company does fill up the n/a blocks to look identical to closed deck at the eye. it was like only $900. you could get yourself a phase II block and... yeah, so I think i'm definately rambling here. I'm not sure what the dependability of a case fill operation would be. definately not as "sure fire" dependability of a medium cast originally closed deck block would be.

but if you keep the EJ22T block, and keep it stock case and crank, I won't tell you it's a bad build or argue with you. hell, I don't have a car right now, nor the money to build my dream motor, so I figure any built motor that someone is happy about is better than none. I'm not trying to shoot you off the EJ22T or steer you towards anything, I am just posting my thoughts and the information I've scrounged to try to help. oh, and edit: lest we not forget previously mentioned, the casting of the EJ22T block is like, the be all to end all of all casting methods subaru has used. and the most spendy. which is the reason I believe they went away from it. remember the EA81/EA82? they were all closed deck... (but the casting method... haha. yeah right. not close to quality.)

now to repost information I had in an older thread...

201mm deck (all EJ motors have a 201mm deck, that I'm aware of)
29.51mm wrist pin offset
37.5mm from crank movement on that half (75mm crank throw)
=
133.99mm left...

maintaining a small clearance for the use of high revving, possibly elongating rods under flex issues, like say that of the stock JDM sti 2.0L motor... subtract .38mm (that's the leftover piston deck on an sti motor with 130.43mm rods and a 32.69mm offset piston pin) you would have a rod 133.61mm long.

131.19mm / 79mm = 1.66 rod ratio
130.43mm / 75mm = 1.73 rod ratio
133.61mm / 75mm = 1.78 rod ratio

2.2 blocks are all over the place between $250 and $1300. A general rule of thumb would probably be to not pay more then about $800 for a sub 100k mile used shortblock. I think you can get the shortblock new from SOA for around $1500.

If you do go the route of a 2.2t build Wiseco has .020 over forged pistons designed for use with the Forged Phase I EJ25 NA motor and rods. You can get them from Summit Racing for under $500. My parts are on order and will be assembled hopefully before the beginning of summer. I ordered a set of EJ25 Phase I Pauter Rods to go along with it. They are around $750 but well worth the strength.

The pistons are meant to be used with 2.5 Phase I DOHC heads and will yield around a 2.4 with 8.5:1 compression.

Brad


sounds neat, but your forgetting that the piston offset difference between the two styles of pistons/engines/cases. if you DID run a true EJ25 piston with TRUE phase I EJ25 rods, on an EJ22 crank, you'd end up with a couple mm's of space left over between the top of the piston and the top of the block's deck. that unused space would be an insane DECREASE in compression...

JonofScio i think i will stay away from custom rods, just for the fact that they will be longer and less likely to hold up. I think i will be better off with a custom piston to make up whatever gap i may have. As for the crank issues, I've been looking at axis motors and i plan to base alot of it off of them. Thanks for your input, it did help me to be aware of the piston height issue. Oh and as for following trends, i always have a problem not doing that because it keeps things interesting. :devil:

Eric

I've always thought an Eaton M90 putting 500hp through a subie motor was interesting... off of that, I found in another thread, bored pistons for 99.5mm that are what a previous person was talking about.

I've always thought an Eaton M90 putting 500hp through a subie motor was interesting... off of that, I found in another thread, bored pistons for 99.5mm that are what a previous person was talking about.

thats pretty cool, superchargers on a subie. Though i think the twin turbo setup that i have planned will be a lil more fun. :devil:

Eric