I have an ECUTEK tuned 02 WRX with stage 2 mods. I've been getting some spiking (1.5-2 psi for a second) if I go WOT in 4th or 5th gear below 3000 rpm. I downloaded my map with ECUflash and viewed it.

Here is a screenshot of the wastegate duty cycles and boost maps (mine is on the left, stock 04 wrx on right for reference):

WDC and boost map screenshot (http://home.comcast.net/~wrx999/ecutek1.jpg)

Anything I can change to lessen the spike or is it normal?

....don't do that...open the throttle slowly....don't stomp it = best results ;)

Your high 16's target boost is probably causing you to spike a little. If you could drop those a little to low to mid 16's it might help. Remember that it would be nice to always have the 16 psi that you put in every day no matter what, but that won't always happen with a turbo car. I'd rather have it spike to 16 on a cold day and deal with 14.5-15.5 boost all the time rather then force it to hit 16 all the time and have it spike to 18-19 on cold day or when the wastegate gets a little lazy from you flooring it. Why tune a car to ease into the throttle... that's just silly. I don't have mine tuned like that...

Who tuned it btw?

Your high 16's target boost is probably causing you to spike a little. If you could drop those a little to low to mid 16's it might help. Remember that it would be nice to always have the 16 psi that you put in every day no matter what, but that won't always happen with a turbo car. I'd rather have it spike to 16 on a cold day and deal with 14.5-15.5 boost all the time rather then force it to hit 16 all the time and have it spike to 18-19 on cold day or when the wastegate gets a little lazy from you flooring it. Why tune a car to ease into the throttle... that's just silly. I don't have mine tuned like that...

Who tuned it btw?
I live at high altitude, so my actual boost is in the 14's (I'll spike to 16 if hitting WOT 4th/5th under 3000 rpm). There is apparently an atmospheric compensation map that will drop the boost as it sees less atmospheric pressure, but the Enginuity program doesn't have access yet to it. I don't know if they changed the values in that map or not compared to stock (I assume it is some kind of ratio). So, basically, the boost map is for sea level.

The guy at the tuning place said I could reduce the WDC to get rid of the spiking or I could increase the boost targets. I'm installing my TMIC soon and I'll get a retune anyway. Just wanted to know what the solution would be, if it occurs on my retune.

There is apparently an atmospheric compensation map that will drop the boost as it sees less atmospheric pressure

I highly doubt they touched that map.

if the ecu was flashed with euctek the
wastegate maps seem to be switched
the AT boost map is higher, which should
be used with the corresponding wastegate
duty cycle map.

the wastegate duty cycles in the lower throttle
range could be tweaked.

I'm not really understanding what WDC does. I understand that the ECU controls the wastegate to attempt to hit a particular boost, but why the need for the WDC values in the ecu? Is WDC the % that the wastegate is initially opened at that throttle position and RPM and then the ECU moves it as needed to hit the boost in the boost map? I just don't understand what changes these values will do, assuming the boost map stays the same.

if the ecu was flashed with euctek the
wastegate maps seem to be switched
the AT boost map is higher, which should
be used with the corresponding wastegate
duty cycle map.

the wastegate duty cycles in the lower throttle
range could be tweaked.Well, consider the stock map is made for a restrictive stock exhaust. If this ecutek reflash is made for a catless turboback, you'd expect to see significantly lower WGDC numbers despite having higher boost targets.

This table is not, IMHO, the one you need to be looking at for spiking issues. There are more tables with the name "Turbo Dynamics" or something similar that deal with boost error from target and WGDC correction as a result of the error.

I'm not really understanding what WDC does. I understand that the ECU controls the wastegate to attempt to hit a particular boost, but why the need for the WDC values in the ecu? Is WDC the % that the wastegate is initially opened at that throttle position and RPM and then the ECU moves it as needed to hit the boost in the boost map? I just don't understand what changes these values will do, assuming the boost map stays the same.It's complicated and I can't say I really understand it fully, but my current understanding is that the WGDC map is used as a general range of where it should be, then there are corrections for boost error, coolant temp, intake air temp, speed/gear, etc.

I'm not sure if they are all adjustable on the WRX, but on the STi, you actually get a WGDC Low and WGDC High map (in streettuner, that is) and you kinda tend to see the actual WGDC during a logged run operating for the most part below the High number and above/below the Low number.

Why are you flooring your car so much at under 3,000rpm? Downshifting works a lot better.

Tuned correctly, flooring the car below 3000 rpms is not an issue. It just works.

^^^ Exactly

Take a stock wrx in 5th gear at 2,500rpm and floor it for 5 seconds and watch your egt's. I am not saying that you can't tune around it but that the load is very high and the car doesnt like it. He is driving a wrx not an STi, and it is easier on the car to just downshift if he wants power and use part throttle when he doesnt, even if he doesnt get spikes.

Tuned correctly, flooring the car below 3000 rpms is not an issue. It just works.



....but that is a real bad idea for a turbo'd application nick.....I don't give a rats ass what you or anybody else thinks....it's bad juju....always has been and always will be.

operating a mechanical device in an inappropriate manner is just THAT....inapppropriate.

downshift the damned car and don't have problems......or stomp it and cry a river :rolleyes:

....but that is a real bad idea for a turbo'd application nick.....I don't give a rats ass what you or anybody else thinks....it's bad juju....always has been and always will be.

operating a mechanical device in an inappropriate manner is just THAT....inapppropriate.

downshift the damned car and don't have problems......or stomp it and cry a river :rolleyes:

Tell a Subaru Engineer that and he'll laugh at you. No manufacturer will release a car to the public which requires specific user input to keep it from granading itself (within reason of course)... either that or they will stipulate it in the owner's manual so that when it does blow up they won't have to cover it.

Take a stock wrx in 5th gear at 2,500rpm and floor it for 5 seconds and watch your egt's.

Not the same thing... 04+ WRX have the CL/OL delay that causes the high EGTs in that perticular case that you give an example for. Try again.

Tuned correctly, flooring the car below 3000 rpms is not an issue. It just works.
^^^^ x1000

Doesn't matter what is more effective from a performance point of view.

It should work, period.

Tuned correctly, flooring the car below 3000 rpms is not an issue. It just works.

Absolutely. Anybody who thinks otherwise needs their brain checked. I like the comment above that mentions "operating a mechanical device in an inappropriate manner". ROFL. The engine is an air pump. The turbo is a compressor for that air pump. When configured appropriately the compressor will be helping the air pump at every RPM as much as it is mechanically able, so long as it is tuned appropriately. The fact that some people won't floor their cars below 3000rpms just makes me think that they are askeered for one reason or another. When I tune ... I start WOT at 1800-2000 rpms.

t

Here's a comparison between a stock 04 wrx (top) and a stage 1 HWG(bottom) map. The HWG map, should, in theory have a greater chance of spiking, and it looks like at WOT, the WDC values are higher on this map. So, I'm guessing that wastegate duty cycles do not mean the percent the wastegate is initially opened, but something else entirely. :confused:

http://home.comcast.net/~wrx999/stockwrx.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~wrx999/stg1.jpg

Think of it this way:

Duty cycle = how hard the system is working to keep the wastegate clamped shut.

0% = no effort, flapping in the wind
100% = trying very hard to keep it closed

Think of it this way:

Duty cycle = how hard the system is working to keep the wastegate clamped shut.

0% = no effort, flapping in the wind
100% = trying very hard to keep it closed
That makes more sense - thanks. Searching on some other sites, one guy says that the WDC values in the table are the maximum values that ECU is allowed to hit. That the ECU is constantly adjusting the wastegate actuator to achieve the target boost regardless of the WDC values in the table, but it will never go above those values at the specified TPS/rpm (extrapolated out for all tps/rpm positions).

So, if I'm having some slight spiking issues at WOT below 3000 rpm then I should lower the WDC cycle at 100% TPS near the rpm I get the spike or alternatively decrease the boost so that the ECU will have an easier time hitting target at the current max WDC?

Yep, which is why on a Stage 1 tune (ECU tuning only, no downpipe) you will typically see very high WGDC values as all that exhaust restriction makes it difficult to keep the WG closed.

Running a Stage 1 map on a car with a free flowing exhaust will result in some bad boost spikes.

To eliminate boost spikes, generally one or both of the Turbo Dynamics settings and WGDC settings will need to be tweaked.

:rolleyes: ...no wonder there are SO MANY broken trannys here.

:rolleyes: ...no wonder there are SO MANY broken trannys here.
Hmm, I'm going to break my tranny going WOT in 5th gear at 2800 rpm? :lol:

:rolleyes: ...no wonder there are SO MANY broken trannys here.Please take this the way it is intended:

If you can't floor your car at 1800rpm and have nothing bad happen, then your car is not tuned well. End of story.

Please take this the way it is intended:

If you can't floor your car at 1800rpm and have nothing bad happen, then your car is not tuned well. End of story.


....but only a farking idiot would want to tune it that way or DO that in any case.....

...a turbo'd car...in top gear.....at 1800.....stomp to WOT???? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


yeahfarkingright :rolleyes:

...do you... have a neurosis... about using elipsis?..... or is it... just a nervous tick.... :lol:

....but only a farking idiot would want to tune it that way or DO that in any case.....

...a turbo'd car...in top gear.....at 1800.....stomp to WOT???? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


yeahfarkingright :rolleyes:

So what happens when you don't tune it like that and someone else in your family drives the car one day out of the blue. They are cruising down the steet and a traffic light changes to yellow. (Their everyday car is an automatic, and while they can drive a manual, their natural instinct is to just floor it. Humm, what happens? Boom... oh sorry Uncle Scotty, you never told us you tuned your crap like this... oh well, it's your fault. :lol:

I would never tell anyone to go out, put the car in 6th gear, and go WOT at 1800rpms. IMHO, that is silly. Anyone who drives my car I tell them to downshift when passing. No sense loading up the tranny with all that torque but not having the gear multiplication to move the car. Yea, gears can get loaded with extreme pressure and things can break. However, with that said, there is nothing wrong with flooring the car in 4th gear (STI 6-speed) at 1800rpms. No problem whatsoever. In fact, I would advise anyone tuning an STI to make sure that they test a low-rpm pulls from around 1800rpms (4th gear).

Nobody is saying to put the car in 6th gear at really low RPMs and floor it. I don't know the load specs on the tranny but I would imagine that there could be problems depending on the torque level the car is making. Where I am going with this is that staying above 3000rpms all the time is just not true. It depends on the gear that you are in. 4th no problem. 5th works fine on my car. 6th - I just wouldn't do it.

t

OK, enough of the debate. Teacups, if you want my opinion... your boost map looks kinda flaky. There is no gradual boost increase setup on it. It's just the stock map that basically has a section of it changed to run higher boost. Everything on the map after 63% throttle position has been just maxed to whatever boost your tuner wanted to make you run. This is a crap way of tuning the boost map. There's no gradual increase of boost throughout the map. When you increase boost on the boost map you can't just say (oh, after 75% throttle jump from 10psi to 16psi), this sort of tuning compounds the possibility of running into boost spikes. You have to increase 70-75% of the overall map to reflect a gradual increase if you're after a higher boost level at max points. I would retune that map with a gradual increase in boost to max... either that or you can try and take all of your 16.5x or higher values in the boost map and make them 16.20. If that alone does not fix it you can try 16.04, but overall I think it just needs to have a more gradual increase throughout the map. If you look at the stock boost maps you'll see that where there is a major increase in boost pressure from cel to cel that that jump is roughly about 3psi... not 6 like it is on yours. The OEM boost control selenoid is only so quick... I think you're overworking it on high loading and that's where your spikes are comming from.

When I originally said downshift I didnt mean for this to turn into a big thing, I pretty much just meant when I am driving on the highway I cruise at between 2,800 and 3,300 which is because I dont have a 6th gear but that is besides the point. If I want to accelerate a few miles per hour 8 or so I just ease onto partial throttle. I dont spike if i floor it but the only reason I would want to floor the car is to accelerate quickly in which case I'd rather downshift and accelerate at 3/5 of wot than at wot for no reason in the next higher gear. I agree that the car shouldn't spike or have high egt's in a good tune, but I also never really put my car in the situation where it matters. I suppose the only time really is second gear since I can't hit first (dont say double clutch- I do, and can hit it just fine in a dog box, just not my 04 wrx since day one) If the AC is on and I am going slowly and I dont slip the clutch in second the car jutters a little bit and doesnt like it. That's with OTC Cobb II. Oh well. Otherwise I am never at the 1,000-2,200 rpm range during driving for more than 1/2 a second and its certainly not for the purpose of accelerating with any intent. If he can alleviate this problem by adjusting wastegate duty and even IAC then by all means do.

OK, enough of the debate. Teacups, if you want my opinion... your boost map looks kinda flaky. There is no gradual boost increase setup on it. It's just the stock map that basically has a section of it changed to run higher boost. Everything on the map after 63% throttle position has been just maxed to whatever boost your tuner wanted to make you run. This is a crap way of tuning the boost map. There's no gradual increase of boost throughout the map. When you increase boost on the boost map you can't just say (oh, after 75% throttle jump from 10psi to 16psi), this sort of tuning compounds the possibility of running into boost spikes. You have to increase 70-75% of the overall map to reflect a gradual increase if you're after a higher boost level at max points. I would retune that map with a gradual increase in boost to max... either that or you can try and take all of your 16.5x or higher values in the boost map and make them 16.20. If that alone does not fix it you can try 16.04, but overall I think it just needs to have a more gradual increase throughout the map. If you look at the stock boost maps you'll see that where there is a major increase in boost pressure from cel to cel that that jump is roughly about 3psi... not 6 like it is on yours. The OEM boost control selenoid is only so quick... I think you're overworking it on high loading and that's where your spikes are coming from.
If I change my boost map to more of a gradual onset of boost, will the timing and/or fuel maps have to be changed at the lower load sites?

No, not because of your WG changes. If they were wrong/poor before, then yes, it still holds that they need work.

If I change my boost map to more of a gradual onset of boost, will the timing and/or fuel maps have to be changed at the lower load sites?

If you change the boost map for gradual increase then you will also have to touch the fuel and timing as well. You're probably going to want to get a better tuner... bottom line. It all works together... you just can't bump up boost like that... it doesn't look right to me. None of the maps I've seen (that are good/reliable) have jumps like that.

If I change my boost map to more of a gradual onset of boost, will the timing and/or fuel maps have to be changed at the lower load sites?Nope. Fuel and boost are referenced by rpm/load while boost and wgdc are referenced by rpm/tps.

You will have to tune the WGDC maps to help it meet the boost map appropriately.

First off, changing your boost to a gradual onset, while a good idea, may not fix your spiking. There are a few things that may be wrong- first, do you have any logs of what's happening when boost spikes? Are your wastegate duty cycles dropping after the boost spikes and then going back up? Logging the condition will be helpful in understanding what is going on.

There are turbo dynamics maps that control how the turbo spools up and maintains boost. It is possible that these maps need some modification. If the tune is over-aggressive with these maps, then you may get spiking.

Finally, your boost map looks weird- you have higher boost values in the 88% column than in the 100% column. I have no idea why that would be. This means as your go form 76-88% TPS, your car is targeting higher boost than at 88% and up. This could be causing some spiking, although, it's only .5 PSI or so, so I think there is more to it than that.

You could try pulling some wastegate duty cycle out from 2800-4800 RPM and see what that does. Again, please get some logs with your manifold relative pressure, wastegate duty cycle , RPM and TPS logged.

Hope that helps.
Mike

Nope. Fuel and boost are referenced by rpm/load while boost and wgdc are referenced by rpm/tps.

You will have to tune the WGDC maps to help it meet the boost map appropriately.

Yes, but with the big jump from 10 to 16.xx psi of boost who's to say his load maps for fuel/timing is correct for the values in between.... that's why I told him to check and touch those other maps as well. Better safe then sorry. In all actuality, I wouldn't be surprised if his fuel/timing maps look similar to the boost maps he has...

Here's my log of the spike in 5th gear from 2600 rpm. Remember that my target boost is not 16 as the table shows since I'm at altitude (16 is the sea level boost target). It is more like 14.5. There is some table that adjusts boost for altitude that I don't have access to. I also logged from 2900 rpm and another from 3000 rpm with no spike. I think they left the part-throttle boost the same as stock as my IAM was dropping with the Vishnu off-the-shelf map during PTHB. The Vishnu map spiked a lot worse than now (it had the supplied Vishnu restrictor). My current tune was done with the stock restrictor. I think dropping IAM may have been dropping due to either a bad gas station, or rattling heatshield, which has now been fixed.

Time (RPM) TOA(%) Boost WDC(%)
881 2591 17.25 -4.498 2.75
991 2616 34.51 -2.322 8.24
1101 2618 67.06 0.871 11.37
1211 2601 92.94 1.741 17.65
1321 2600 100 2.031 23.92
1432 2621 100 2.612 27.06
1542 2629 100 3.337 33.33
1652 2619 100 4.063 39.61
1762 2619 100 4.353 42.75
1872 2621 100 5.078 49.02
1982 2645 100 5.659 55.29
2093 2662 100 6.094 58.43
2203 2670 100 6.82 64.71
2313 2650 100 7.545 70.98
2423 2662 100 7.835 74.12
2533 2672 100 8.706 80.39
2643 2695 100 9.431 86.67
2753 2699 100 9.867 89.8
2864 2719 100 10.737 96.08
2974 2741 100 11.463 100
3084 2712 100 11.898 100
3194 2739 100 12.769 100
3304 2760 100 13.494 100
3414 2761 100 13.929 100
3525 2776 100 14.655 100
3635 2793 100 15.235 98.43
3745 2785 100 15.38 92.16
3855 2799 100 15.816 89.02
3965 2810 100 16.106 81.96
4075 2813 100 16.251 74.51
4186 2821 100 16.251 70.98
4296 2839 100 16.251 63.53
4406 2871 100 16.106 56.08
4516 2883 100 15.961 52.55
4626 2878 100 15.38 47.45
4736 2888 100 14.51 47.45
4846 2910 100 14.075 48.63
4957 2930 100 13.349 50.2
5067 2917 100 13.204 51.76
5177 2946 100 13.349 52.55
5287 2935 100 13.494 54.12
5397 2948 100 13.784 55.29
5507 2990 100 13.929 55.69
5618 2980 100 14.075 56.47
5728 3010 100 14.22 57.25
5838 2999 100 14.22 58.04
5958 3033 100 14.365 58.04
6088 3036 100 14.365 58.82
6198 3060 100 14.51 58.82
6309 3071 100 14.655 58.82
6419 3078 100 14.655 58.82
6529 3086 100 14.655 58.82
6639 3096 100 14.655 58.82
6749 3111 100 14.655 58.82
6859 3138 100 14.8 58.82
6970 3126 100 14.8 58.43
7080 3148 100 14.8 58.43
7190 3172 100 14.8 58.04
7300 3186 100 14.8 57.25
7410 3172 100 14.8 57.25
7520 3180 100 14.8 56.47
7630 3205 100 14.655 56.47
7741 3215 100 14.655 56.47
7851 3231 57.25 14.365 53.33
7961 3241 19.22 11.608 18.82
8061 3221 4.71 8.271 8.63

What's interesting is that you are getting 100% WGDC at 3500 rpm which isn't what your map says.

Do you have an AT or MT?

Looks like the ecu is trying it's hardest to hit that 16.xx psi you have on your boost map... try having the boost map reduced some to a more manageable level and see how it goes. The wastegate levels go all the way to 100 to help build boost quickly... with those levels at 100 it can't catch it quick enough to keep it from spiking. I've seen other maps that logged like this in an effort to help make tons of torque/spool down low, but each time on a high gear load these tunes will cause spiking. This perticular instance was on an STI, but the same thing applies here.

Also, as crazymike stated... there's 2 maps in the ecu for boost... an MT and AT map... it looks like you showed us the AT map... are you sure you're pulling up the right info off the map.

What's interesting is that you are getting 100% WGDC at 3500 rpm which isn't what your map says.Does the ECU adjust WGDCs based on altitude compensation? The ECU isn't pulling the WGDCs fast enough once full boost hits (assuming it's targeting 14.5-15psi because of the altitude...). Anyone know more on how the ECU reacts to altitude?

Also, as crazymike stated... there's 2 maps in the ecu for boost... an MT and AT map... it looks like you showed us the AT map... are you sure you're pulling up the right info off the map.
ECUTEK uses the MT and AT maps for boost map switching. The MT map is what it defaults to after a reset. I wanted that to be my valet map. When I look at that map, the max boost is 10 psi. The AT map is the correct map.

ECUTEK uses the MT and AT maps for boost map switching. The MT map is what it defaults to after a reset. I wanted that to be my valet map. When I look at that map, the max boost is 10 psi. The AT map is the correct map.

That's fine... as long as we're all on the same page. The map switching is only available on 02-03 WRXs and even then some tuners don't map for it... as long as it's mapped that way then it'll work fine. Just wanted to make sure... that was all.

With that said, what does your other map look like? Can you post that as well... have you tried to see if you spike with the other map running (switch maps)? Just wondering.

Does the ECU adjust WGDCs based on altitude compensation? The ECU isn't pulling the WGDCs fast enough once full boost hits (assuming it's targeting 14.5-15psi because of the altitude...). Anyone know more on how the ECU reacts to altitude?

That's the weird thing- in most of the compensation maps I've seen, they usually lower the targets (wgdc, boost) not raise them. I am honestly unsure of what is going on here.

You can do this:

Change the RPM axis from 2800 RPM to something like 2600 for your wastegate map. See if that helps at all. If you duty cycle doesn't go up to 100, then there is SOMETHING in the ECU that is causing the duty cycle to go higher than what is in the map.

WGDC will increase as altititude increases. The compensation map for WGDC vs. Baro has positive numbers.

t

I went down to sea level and hit 16.8 psi in 5th gear, so the altitude compensation seems to be working correctly. I have a copy of the Cobb stg 2 boost and WDC tables - I might try those as a baseline.

I don't get any spiking with the valet map - here's those tables:

http://home.comcast.net/~wrx999/mt1.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~wrx999/mt2.jpg

Look at how consistant the 9.56psi cels are... that's what your other map should look like. The other one has variances all over the place in it. If you could change that other boost map and just standardize on a PSI level like I stated in the other post somewhere above I bet it would get you a little more stable.

I was going to recreate the table to make it easier for you to see, but I don't have the time. Pull the boost map off and change all values that are higher then 16.20 to 16.20. (so if it's 16.85 change it to 16.20, but if it's 16.04 don't change it) The next step would be to drop those to 16.04 if the 16.20 doesn't work. If you trust the tools enough, just backup your map, change the map arround and flash it back (if you can't get your tuner to do it). Worse case scenario you can just flash back the original if that doesn't work out. Do this at your own risk of course...

Something doesn't make sense- the wastegate duty cycles in that map are a lot higher than the other one, so I can't understand how it would be working correctly. I wonder if the program is mixing up which WG table goes with which boost map?


Mike

Look at how consistant the 9.56psi cels are... that's what your other map should look like. The other one has variances all over the place in it. If you could change that other boost map and just standardize on a PSI level like I stated in the other post somewhere above I bet it would get you a little more stable.

I've been comparing a stock 04wrx, stg 1 HWG and stg 2 and my custom tune. My wastegate duty cycles are lower than any of these maps at the higher throttle positions, so I'm guessing that it is more of a problem with the boost map as you said. I might model my boost after the stage 1 map (which has lower part throttle boost values than stg 2) and use the WDC similar to the stg 2 map (which are lower than stg 1).

Something doesn't make sense- the wastegate duty cycles in that map are a lot higher than the other one, so I can't understand how it would be working correctly. I wonder if the program is mixing up which WG table goes with which boost map?
Mike
Well, when they originally tuned it, it had the high boost map as the default map (post-reset). I went back to get user-tune activated and told them I would like the valet map as the post-reset map and they switched them. Maybe they forgot to switch the WDC as well?

I also remember asking if the valet map would be really slow and he said the wastegate duty cycles were really low so it would spool very slow, which is what i wanted for that map.

How did it run right before they made that change? Also, if you're going to change the boost map I would just make the changes I suggested... if you go changing the lower pressures to read higher for a more gradual increase in boost your fueling will be off. If you drop the values I told you to drop the worse case is that it will run slighly rich in those areas.

How did it run right before they made that change? Also, if you're going to change the boost map I would just make the changes I suggested... if you go changing the lower pressures to read higher for a more gradual increase in boost your fueling will be off. If you drop the values I told you to drop the worse case is that it will run slighly rich in those areas.

You are wrong.

The car is MAF-based and will adjust fueling based on engine load. If you change boost targets your fueling does NOT need adjustment, assuming you are not seeing loads that are higher than previous. Smoothing out a boost map wil only change the throttle response of the car. Assuming it's tuned correctly, you do not need to touch fuel or timing.

The best thing to do that this point, would be to zero out an entire wastegate duty cycle map. See if that prevents you from making more than wastegate boost (~7psi). Then, at least you will know you are dealing with the correct set of maps.

When you switch maps with EcuTek, you should change boost and wastegate from my understanding, so it's not like you can mix and match. I'm pretty confused.

Let me know if you need help. Feel free to hit me up on IM if you'd like.


Mike

The car is MAF-based and will adjust fueling based on engine load. If you change boost targets your fueling does NOT need adjustment, assuming you are not seeing loads that are higher than previous. Smoothing out a boost map wil only change the throttle response of the car. Assuming it's tuned correctly, you do not need to touch fuel or timing.

The best thing to do that this point, would be to zero out an entire wastegate duty cycle map. See if that prevents you from making more than wastegate boost (~7psi). Then, at least you will know you are dealing with the correct set of maps.
I compared my timing and fuel maps to APstg2 and my maps are richer with less timing in the higher load and/or higher rpm sites (the lower rpm/lower load sites are nearly identical and even the same as the stock 04wrx map). So, hopefully smoothing out the boost transition won't be a problem. Besides getting rid of the spiking, I would like to see more boost at the lower throttle positions.

I'm a little paranoid about flashing the map. I still need to figure out the jumper block thing as well.

How did it run right before they made that change? Also, if you're going to change the boost map I would just make the changes I suggested... if you go changing the lower pressures to read higher for a more gradual increase in boost your fueling will be off. If you drop the values I told you to drop the worse case is that it will run slighly rich in those areas.
It was a while back. I don't remember it spiking, but then again, I don't often hit WOT below 2800 rpm, so I'm not really sure.

FWIW, here's a boost mapping I used on a car:

http://mikeschear.com/sampleboost.jpg

If you want to try something like that, you may be happier with the more linear throttle response.

Again, the first thing I would do is zero out your entire wastegate map and make sure you are getting only wastegate pressure. That will ensure that the wastegate duty cycle map you think you are using is actually the one that is being used. Something still doesn't seem right- you boost target map shouldn't be causing your spiking- if anything, it would be the wastegate map. Based on the logs, there appears to just be too much duty cycle.

I've never had a problem flashing, so I don't think there's anything to worry about. Just make sure you don't have any accessories on while you are performing the flash.

Mike

Tuned correctly, flooring the car below 3000 rpms is not an issue. It just works.

i am interested in your thoughts, may i subscribe to your newsletter?

Again, the first thing I would do is zero out your entire wastegate map and make sure you are getting only wastegate pressure. That will ensure that the wastegate duty cycle map you think you are using is actually the one that is being used. Something still doesn't seem right- you boost target map shouldn't be causing your spiking- if anything, it would be the wastegate map. Based on the logs, there appears to just be too much duty cycle.
Well, it turns out that the ECU XML definition file had the boost target(MT) and boost target(AT) locations reversed for my ECU revision (compared to the Tari offset for reference). So, the higher WDC table (when fixed) would now match up with the regular boost map. The creater of Enginuity is going to fix the reversal for an upcoming release.

He might also add turbo dynamics-burst, which is the percent of correction applied to wastegate duty when not hitting target boost. I also need to know the atmospheric correction that is being applied to my target boost tables. Without this, I have no idea what the actual target boost is at my altitude.

FWIW, here's a boost mapping I used on a car:
http://mikeschear.com/sampleboost.jpgCurious - why bother targeting more than 16psi below 2400 rpm? Does it really help spool any?

Comparing the logs with the boost map and WGDC table, you're targeting boost 16psi boost by 2380 RPM but only assigning a WGDC of 87%. The stock map gives 96% just to target 13.73PSi of boost. Duty cycles being too low initially with to high of bosot targets cause the ECU to overcompensate from the looks of things. Then it ramps the WGDC past target values since the boost isn't coming up. Once the rpm's come up to where you can actually make boost, you overshoot. I'd say smooth the boost maps out some first and then adjust the WGDC to match what's actually required to reach those targets.

Curious - why bother targeting more than 16psi below 2400 rpm? Does it really help spool any?

Since the turbo dynamics maps are based off of boost error, it should. Of course, this is all limited by what the car can actually achieve, so it may not do anything. I guess at least I know the car is trying as hard as possible to ramp up boost.

Mike

Comparing the logs with the boost map and WGDC table, you're targeting boost 16psi boost by 2380 RPM but only assigning a WGDC of 87%. The stock map gives 96% just to target 13.73PSi of boost. Duty cycles being too low initially with to high of bosot targets cause the ECU to overcompensate from the looks of things. Then it ramps the WGDC past target values since the boost isn't coming up. Once the rpm's come up to where you can actually make boost, you overshoot. I'd say smooth the boost maps out some first and then adjust the WGDC to match what's actually required to reach those targets.

The problem is he is seeing WGDC of 100% at 2700 RPM. Duty cycles should be tapering off at that point, yet they are still holding steady. There are turbo dynamics maps that control how the wastegate duty cycles react to be over/under boost. As far as the ECU is conerned, his actual boost is still under the desired boost targets at that point. Even with compensation maps, that is quite a bit of duty cycle to be added to the base WGDC map.

Well, it turns out that the ECU XML definition file had the boost target(MT) and boost target(AT) locations reversed for my ECU revision (compared to the Tari offset for reference). So, the higher WDC table (when fixed) would now match up with the regular boost map. The creater of Enginuity is going to fix the reversal for an upcoming release.

He might also add turbo dynamics-burst, which is the percent of correction applied to wastegate duty when not hitting target boost. I also need to know the atmospheric correction that is being applied to my target boost tables. Without this, I have no idea what the actual target boost is at my altitude.

Cool. Once you get things straightened out, let me know if you need some help. It looks like the wastegate duty cycles are simply too high based on your logs. If you'd like to send me a dump of your ECU, I can try and help you out as well.

Thanks,
Mike

Cool. Once you get things straightened out, let me know if you need some help. It looks like the wastegate duty cycles are simply too high based on your logs. If you'd like to send me a dump of your ECU, I can try and help you out as well.
Thanks,
Mike

Thanks for your help. I think I might try something similar to the tables that you posted earlier. With the next version of Enginuity, the creator is going to have a tutorial for table creation in the XML file. Hopefully, if I can figure it out, I can add the Turbo Dynamics and Boost Pressure Compensation (atmospheric) for my revision. I definitely need to know the target boost the ECU is trying to hit at my altitude. Anyone know the formula the ECU uses for reduction of boost with lower measured atmospheric pressure? I doubt that the tuner changed the basic formula. It is linear?

I also would like to know all the CL/OL settings are currently on my ECU. My tuner said it was set at 25% TPS, but from what I've been reading there are a lot more factors the ECU uses to determine when to switch. I would assume you would not want to run high boost targets while in closed-loop with its 14.7 AFR. What is a good rule of thumb for closed-loop target boost (zero or less than a certain psi?).

The CL/OL logic isn't as simple as one input- it looks at engine load, TPS, RPM amongst other things and then decides when to kick into open loop. By doing some experiments and logging them, you should be able to figure out where the car typically kicks over.

As far as boost goes, running <10psi with stoich fueling at lower TPS is probably not a problem. I wouldn't go much higher than that, though. For that reason, I usually leave the boost targets <25% TPS at 0. Then I ramp up boost from there.

I'm not sure about the boost compensation for altitude. Honestly, by reducing the wastegate duty and then watching how your boost reacts, you should be able to understand what is being targeted. Also, be aware that temperature compensation maps exist for boost and wastegate duty, so no matter what you have programmed, it's possible you won't see those values. I wouldn't get too caught up with that.

Now that you know for sure which wastegate table is active for your high boost map, I think if you set your wastegate duty cycle to 70% in the 100% column from 2700 all the way up. I would also take the 2700 on the axis and change it to 2600. That should help prevent spiking. If you try that and get some logs, we could probably get things more stable.

Mike

Here's my attempt at modifying the target boost and WDC. I left the 12 and 24 TPS boost range the same (I'll experiment with those later) and left the highest rpm ranges for boost the same because I didn't want to mess with boost tapering right now. I modeled the tables after the APstg2 map for last 3 TPS positions and the WDC as well. For the lower TPS positions, I used crazymike's sample map for reference, which resulted in a lot lower partial throttle boost than the stg2 map. WDC% was pretty much lowered throughout the map.

Haven't flashed it yet as this is just a rough draft:

http://home.comcast.net/~wrx999/ecutek1.jpg

Looks good.

Once you flash it, post up some logs and let's see how things look.


Mike

I still say the 16.97 and 16.81 is rather high, but we'll see once the logs show up.

There are a few things.

I have seen some Subaru ECUs that have an "Initial" and "Max" Wastegate Duty Cycle maps. Your 02 ECU probaby has the "Initial" WDC map set relatively high. (If you can view this map with Enginuity or EcuEdit please post it) The car may have been tuned for sea level and only sea level. This would explain why your WDC is going to 100% even though your "Max" WDC map doesn't have any cells that go up that high. The previous tuner who used the Ecutek software probably only messed with the "Initial" WDC map to dial in the boost. This will work fine for most situations if the atmospheric conditions are similiar to when the car was tuned. This means barometric pressure, humidity, temperature etc. The "Initial" WDC map should be lower than the "Max" WDC map.

The boost target map defines what the ECU will try to hit. There is a Boost vs barometric pressure compensation map :)

The WDC vs Barometric pressure map can be used to dial back the WDCycles at higher altitudes.

The WDC vs Intake Air Temp map can be used to compensate for colder (or hotter) intake temps.

http://www.tari.co.za/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1143012452

Check out the offsets for your particular ECU and you'll know what all maps you have access to theoretically. Not all maps may be supported by the free tools available currently. But any competent Ecutek tuner should be able to figure this out easily. If you can't or don't want to go to a Ecutek tuner, you will need to find access to these maps.

The USDM 02-04 WRX ECUs seem to only have one wastegate duty cycle map, whereas the JDM ECUs and USDM drive-by-wire ECUs have multiple maps. I am pretty sure this is the only wastegate map for the OP's car.

A car that is tuned at sea level should 'just work' at any altitued, assuming the compensation maps were not messed up. Think about the factory calibration of the car- people run them at different altitudes, climates, etc and the car performs appropriately.

Based on the maps that were posted, it understandable why the car is spiking under the conditions described. Boost is one of the most complicated aspects to tune and changes made to spool the turbo faster under 'normal' driving conditions can lead to boost spikes under conditions like flooring the car at lower RPMs.

Think about it this way- if you wanted to autocross the car and were never going to get out of second gear, you could make yourself a mapping with very aggressive settings for boost that would be fix for autocross, but would give horrible results for highway driving.

Mike

There are a few things.

I have seen some Subaru ECUs that have an "Initial" and "Max" Wastegate Duty Cycle maps. Your 02 ECU probaby has the "Initial" WDC map set relatively high. (If you can view this map with Enginuity or EcuEdit please post it) The car may have been tuned for sea level and only sea level. This would explain why your WDC is going to 100% even though your "Max" WDC map doesn't have any cells that go up that high. The previous tuner who used the Ecutek software probably only messed with the "Initial" WDC map to dial in the boost. This will work fine for most situations if the atmospheric conditions are similiar to when the car was tuned. This means barometric pressure, humidity, temperature etc. The "Initial" WDC map should be lower than the "Max" WDC map.

The boost target map defines what the ECU will try to hit. There is a Boost vs barometric pressure compensation map :)

The WDC vs Barometric pressure map can be used to dial back the WDCycles at higher altitudes.

The WDC vs Intake Air Temp map can be used to compensate for colder (or hotter) intake temps.

http://www.tari.co.za/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1143012452

Check out the offsets for your particular ECU and you'll know what all maps you have access to theoretically. Not all maps may be supported by the free tools available currently. But any competent Ecutek tuner should be able to figure this out easily. If you can't or don't want to go to a Ecutek tuner, you will need to find access to these maps.

The maps I posted are listed as "Maximum Wastegate Duty". Other wastegate tables available for my ECU (Tari shows a hex address) but not supported yet in the current xml of Enginuity:

Wastegate duty compensation - Primary (Atmospheric pressure)
Wastegate duty compensation - Primary (Air Intake Temperature)

There are a lot of parameters on the Tari list like initial wastegate duty, but they show only 0x0 for my ECU version. I don't know if this means they don't apply to my revision or if their location has not yet been found. I do know there are several other things on that list that my ECU shouldn't have, like Intercooler Autowash threshold.

I still say the 16.97 and 16.81 is rather high, but we'll see once the logs show up.

This is kind of how Cobb sets up their maps in that rpm range. My guess is that it is to improve spool in that range, since you'll never hit that high of a boost level at that low of an rpm.

crazymikie : Thanks for clearing the Initial vs Max WDC maps for me.

There is a WDC vs Speed map. I'm not sure if that is vehicle speed or engine speed. This could be used to improve spool up at low speeds.

Can the OP post an ECU dump so we could look at the entire map? This way we can examine the WDC vs Speed, WDC vs Barometric, WDC vs TPS, and Boost vs Barometric maps.

As others have mentioned the Turbo Dynamics 'Burst' may need to be adjusted.

There is a WDC vs Speed map. I'm not sure if that is vehicle speed or engine speed. This could be used to improve spool up at low speeds.
RPM or vehicle speed shouldn't really matter, you'd get the same results either way. There is also a per gear compensation table, so I'm assuming WDC vs speed is engine speed.

RPM or vehicle speed shouldn't really matter, you'd get the same results either way. There is also a per gear compensation table, so I'm assuming WDC vs speed is engine speed.


On the USDM drive-by-wire ECUs, there is a low-speed boost multiplier. Below a vehicle speed, you can have the wastegate duty cycle 'multiplied' by a factor to help improve spool.

In the USDM 02-04 WRXs, there is nothing like this. There are per gear compensations in the JDM ECUs (and possibly the drive-by-wire ECUs) but I've not seen anything like this on the USDM WRX ECUs.

Mike

subscribe.

i've been having crazy boost spike. qoncept and I have been looking at turbo dynamics and WDC + target boost in order to stabilize the darn thing. Haven't had any success yet. I will try what I've learned from this thread and see what happens.

double post

log from tonight

Time (RPM) TPA(%) Boost (PSI) Load(g) WDC(%)
0 2510 3.53 -10.447 0.44 0
141 2512 3.53 -10.447 0.44 0
281 2510 3.53 -10.447 0.44 0
421 2489 4.71 -10.302 0.47 0
551 2528 32.94 -2.322 1.44 6.27
681 2514 58.04 -0.29 1.88 12.55
812 2479 80 0.29 1.94 18.82
942 2501 92.16 0.58 1.97 25.1
1072 2589 94.51 1.016 2 31.37
1202 2621 95.69 1.451 2.06 37.65
1332 2642 96.47 1.886 2.13 43.92
1463 2669 97.25 2.322 2.19 50.2
1593 2696 97.65 2.757 2.28 56.47
1723 2738 98.04 3.192 2.34 62.75
1853 2791 98.43 3.627 2.41 69.02
1983 2825 98.82 4.063 2.5 73.73
2113 2830 99.22 4.643 2.59 74.12
2244 2857 99.22 5.224 2.69 74.51
2374 2901 99.61 5.804 2.78 74.51
2504 2965 99.61 6.384 2.88 74.51
2634 2965 99.61 6.965 2.94 74.51
2764 3011 100 7.69 3.06 74.9
2895 3071 100 8.416 3.16 74.9
3025 3094 100 9.141 3.28 74.9
3155 3155 100 10.012 3.41 75.29
3285 3200 100 10.882 3.53 75.29
3415 3254 100 11.753 3.66 75.29
3546 3301 100 12.769 3.81 75.29
3676 3378 100 13.784 4 75.29
3806 3423 100 15.09 4.19 75.29
3936 3506 100 16.541 4.47 75.29
4066 3559 100 17.412 4.72 69.8
4196 3634 100 18.427 5.03 61.18
4327 3718 100 18.427 5.19 50.98
4457 3830 100 18.427 5.19 41.18
4587 3894 100 18.427 5.06 30.98
4717 3981 100 18.427 4.81 21.57
4847 4006 100 17.702 4.41 21.96
4978 4094 100 15.38 4.03 26.27
5108 4153 100 13.494 3.84 32.55
5238 4252 100 12.624 3.91 35.69
5368 4305 100 13.494 4.16 41.96
5498 4378 100 15.525 4.53 46.67
5629 4427 100 17.992 4.81 44.31
5759 4504 100 18.427 4.94 36.86
5889 4613 100 18.427 4.88 27.84
6019 4690 100 18.282 4.59 20.39
6149 4771 100 15.816 4.22 23.53
6279 4836 100 13.929 3.97 29.02
6410 4836 100 13.204 3.94 35.29
6540 4947 100 13.494 4.09 41.57
6670 4977 100 15.235 4.38 44.31
6800 5092 100 17.122 4.63 45.88
6930 5088 100 17.992 4.75 42.35
7061 5215 100 18.427 4.84 39.22
7191 5308 100 18.427 4.81 32.94
7321 5346 100 18.427 4.66 31.76
7451 5435 100 16.831 4.5 34.12
7581 5503 100 16.251 4.41 35.69
7712 5490 100 16.106 4.41 38.82
7842 5635 100 16.106 4.47 40.39
7972 5639 100 16.541 4.5 41.18
8102 5738 100 16.976 4.53 42.35
8232 5791 100 17.267 4.56 42.75
8362 5846 100 17.267 4.53 43.14
8493 5882 100 17.267 4.5 43.14
8623 5986 100 17.267 4.47 43.92
8753 6043 100 16.976 4.47 44.31
8883 6112 100 16.976 4.44 44.71
9013 6198 100 16.831 4.41 45.1
9144 6234 100 16.831 4.38 45.1
9274 6297 100 16.831 4.34 45.49
9404 6313 100 16.831 4.34 45.88
9534 6405 100 16.831 4.28 46.67
9664 6421 100 16.686 4.28 47.06
9795 6510 100 16.686 4.25 47.45
9925 6573 100 16.686 4.22 47.45
10055 6625 100 16.686 4.22 47.84
10185 6690 100 16.686 4.19 47.84
10315 6751 100 16.686 4.13 48.24
10445 6806 100 16.686 4.13 48.24
10576 6800 100 16.831 4.09 48.24
10706 6862 100 16.976 4.06 48.24
10836 6983 100 16.976 4.03 48.24
10966 6983 100 16.541 4 48.24
11096 6970 100 16.541 3.97 48.24
11227 7089 100 16.976 3.97 48.24
11357 7143 100 17.122 3.94 48.24
11487 7204 99.61 17.122 3.91 47.84
11617 7191 49.02 16.396 3.84 47.84
11757 7191 0 16.396 3 0

Can the OP post an ECU dump so we could look at the entire map? This way we can examine the WDC vs Speed, WDC vs Barometric, WDC vs TPS, and Boost vs Barometric maps.

Here's my original ROM (before I made any changes):
02 WRX ROM (http://home.comcast.net/~wrx999/wrx_cpu.hex)

Revision: A4SGC00C

As soon as I can get some kind of jumper block, I'm going to try my new changes.

Are you using some sort of interrupt solenoid? The duty cycles that your car wants to run are VERY low. Also, are you carrying 16PSI to redline? Is this a stock turbo?

In any case, it looks like your needed WGDC is around 40% and your target boost is around 16PSI? At time 3936, you car passes the boost target and then tries hard to regulate boost.

The first thing I would do is change your duty cycle to around 40%. From there, you will need to tweak a few things for the solenoid- tubo dynamics, temperature/altitude compensation maps, etc. Since the solenoid is so sensative, you need to make the compensations smaller (5% duty cycle with an interrupt solenoid affects things far more than 5% with the stock BCS). Do you still have the stock restrictor pill in there?

I played with a GM solenoid way back when StreetTuner came out. At that point, there were no compensation maps and every time the weather changed more than 10 degrees, my boost was all over the place. THe other fun part is after you get boost set in one gear like this, you will need to play with the dynamics maps to get things under control through shifts :)

HTH,
Mike

log from tonight

Time (RPM) TPA(%) Boost (PSI) Load(g) WDC(%)
3676 3378 100 13.784 4 75.29
3806 3423 100 15.09 4.19 75.29
3936 3506 100 16.541 4.47 75.29
4066 3559 100 17.412 4.72 69.8
4196 3634 100 18.427 5.03 61.18
4327 3718 100 18.427 5.19 50.98
4457 3830 100 18.427 5.19 41.18
4587 3894 100 18.427 5.06 30.98
4717 3981 100 18.427 4.81 21.57
4847 4006 100 17.702 4.41 21.96
4978 4094 100 15.38 4.03 26.27
5108 4153 100 13.494 3.84 32.55
5238 4252 100 12.624 3.91 35.69
5368 4305 100 13.494 4.16 41.96
5498 4378 100 15.525 4.53 46.67
5629 4427 100 17.992 4.81 44.31
5759 4504 100 18.427 4.94 36.86
5889 4613 100 18.427 4.88 27.84
6019 4690 100 18.282 4.59 20.39
6149 4771 100 15.816 4.22 23.53
6279 4836 100 13.929 3.97 29.02
6410 4836 100 13.204 3.94 35.29
6540 4947 100 13.494 4.09 41.57
6670 4977 100 15.235 4.38 44.31
6800 5092 100 17.122 4.63 45.88
6930 5088 100 17.992 4.75 42.35
7061 5215 100 18.427 4.84 39.22
7191 5308 100 18.427 4.81 32.94
7321 5346 100 18.427 4.66 31.76
7451 5435 100 16.831 4.5 34.12
7581 5503 100 16.251 4.41 35.69
7712 5490 100 16.106 4.41 38.82
7842 5635 100 16.106 4.47 40.39
7972 5639 100 16.541 4.5 41.18
8102 5738 100 16.976 4.53 42.35
8232 5791 100 17.267 4.56 42.75
8362 5846 100 17.267 4.53 43.14
8493 5882 100 17.267 4.5 43.14
8623 5986 100 17.267 4.47 43.92
8753 6043 100 16.976 4.47 44.31
8883 6112 100 16.976 4.44 44.71
9013 6198 100 16.831 4.41 45.1
9144 6234 100 16.831 4.38 45.1
9274 6297 100 16.831 4.34 45.49
9404 6313 100 16.831 4.34 45.88
9534 6405 100 16.831 4.28 46.67
9664 6421 100 16.686 4.28 47.06
9795 6510 100 16.686 4.25 47.45
9925 6573 100 16.686 4.22 47.45
10055 6625 100 16.686 4.22 47.84
10185 6690 100 16.686 4.19 47.84
10315 6751 100 16.686 4.13 48.24
10445 6806 100 16.686 4.13 48.24
10576 6800 100 16.831 4.09 48.24
10706 6862 100 16.976 4.06 48.24
10836 6983 100 16.976 4.03 48.24
10966 6983 100 16.541 4 48.24
11096 6970 100 16.541 3.97 48.24
11227 7089 100 16.976 3.97 48.24
11357 7143 100 17.122 3.94 48.24
11487 7204 99.61 17.122 3.91 47.84
11617 7191 49.02 16.396 3.84 47.84
11757 7191 0 16.396 3 0

Here's my original ROM (before I made any changes):
02 WRX ROM (http://home.comcast.net/~wrx999/wrx_cpu.hex)

Revision: A4SGC00C

As soon as I can get some kind of jumper block, I'm going to try my new changes.

What version of enginuity are you using? I tried 0.2.4 and the maps aren't coming up correctly.

Am I out of date?

Thanks,
Mike

In the USDM 02-04 WRXs, there is nothing like this. There are per gear compensations in the JDM ECUs (and possibly the drive-by-wire ECUs) but I've not seen anything like this on the USDM WRX ECUs.

Mike

On my 04 USDM map there is a WDC vs Speed map... I haven't been able to verify if it was available on previous models (02-03), but mine definatly has it.

On my 04 USDM map there is a WDC vs Speed map... I haven't been able to verify if it was available on previous models (02-03), but mine definatly has it.

Can you please post the address up and the ROM? I've never seen anyone talk about this before, so I'd be really anxious to see it.

Thanks,
Mike

actually running VF22 and the target boost is 18.25 to redline.

i've played with the WDC and tapered the BT last night, and it's still all over the place. the boost gauge actually spikes up to 24psi, but for some reason, ecuExplorer only records up to 18.427psi.

http://www.enginuity.org/files/rpm_boost_wdc_487.gif


that's how my BT, WDC and TD are right now...

thanks crazymike.

Are you using some sort of interrupt solenoid? The duty cycles that your car wants to run are VERY low. Also, are you carrying 16PSI to redline? Is this a stock turbo?

In any case, it looks like your needed WGDC is around 40% and your target boost is around 16PSI? At time 3936, you car passes the boost target and then tries hard to regulate boost.

The first thing I would do is change your duty cycle to around 40%. From there, you will need to tweak a few things for the solenoid- tubo dynamics, temperature/altitude compensation maps, etc. Since the solenoid is so sensative, you need to make the compensations smaller (5% duty cycle with an interrupt solenoid affects things far more than 5% with the stock BCS). Do you still have the stock restrictor pill in there?

I played with a GM solenoid way back when StreetTuner came out. At that point, there were no compensation maps and every time the weather changed more than 10 degrees, my boost was all over the place. THe other fun part is after you get boost set in one gear like this, you will need to play with the dynamics maps to get things under control through shifts :)

HTH,
Mike

If you log manifold absolute pressure and barometric pressure, you can see exactly what is going on. Manifold relative pressure only reads to 18.4PSI. it's a shortcoming of the ECU.

In any case, It still looks like your wastegate duty cycle is too high. A larger restrictor pill would help with this. If you target 70%-80% it gives you a nice amount of granularity.

Are you using the restrictor pill that came with the VF22 or the stocker?

Also, can you please post up your turbo dynamics continuous map?

Thanks!
Mike

mike,

I don't think I have that map available on my enginuity image.

regarding the pill, if you're talking about the OE vacuum hoses for the wastegate, turbo, and solenoid - then yes, I'm using the OE vacuum lines.

argh. so I have been logging the wrong thing then. I will try to log the other ones. hopefully, it's available with ecuExplorer.

Jojo

What version of enginuity are you using? I tried 0.2.4 and the maps aren't coming up correctly.

Am I out of date?

Thanks,
Mike
0.2.6b just came out and it reads my ECU fine. He also fixed the reversed target boost tables.

http://www.enginuity.org/download.php?id=162

actually running VF22 and the target boost is 18.25 to redline.

i've played with the WDC and tapered the BT last night, and it's still all over the place. the boost gauge actually spikes up to 24psi, but for some reason, ecuExplorer only records up to 18.427psi.

that's how my BT, WDC and TD are right now...

thanks crazymike.
Newer version of ECUexplorer reads past 18 psi IIRC. Does your boost eventually settle or does it oscillate back and forth? If if oscillates back and forth, then the turbo dynamics - continious map is what you need to look at according to Cobb and then the Burst map for the spike. Unfortunately, these tables are widely accessible right now.
"If during the course of boost tuning you find the turbocharger spools
up to target boost pressure but then starts to oscillate by ~1psi above
and below target boost in a rapid but consistent pattern, you may try
adjusting the values to be closer to 0%."

that's exactly what I did, but that didn't do anything.

take a look:

http://www.enginuity.org/files/boost04062006_161.gif



Newer version of ECUexplorer reads past 18 psi IIRC. Does your boost eventually settle or does it oscillate back and forth? If if oscillates back and forth, then the turbo dynamics - continious map is what you need to look at according to Cobb and then the Burst map for the spike. Unfortunately, these tables are widely accessible right now.
"If during the course of boost tuning you find the turbocharger spools
up to target boost pressure but then starts to oscillate by ~1psi above
and below target boost in a rapid but consistent pattern, you may try
adjusting the values to be closer to 0%."

that's exactly what I did, but that didn't do anything.

Do you have access to the Continious turbo dynamics map? I see that you have the burst map now. The continious map is for oscillating back and forth.

Also, you should post up a log with the newest version of ECUexplorer. According to the release notes:
"manifold relative pressure (corrected), this item will overcome the 1.27b (18.42PSI) limit of the traditional Manifold Relative Pressure parameter"

i thought I had the latest ecuExplorer. but I'll check again.

crazymike was also saying that I have to log manifold absolute pressure.

Did the vf22 come witha different restrictor pill? If so, you might want to try it. It looks like your duty cycles are WAY too high- I don't think it's a problem with your continuous dynamics (yet). I think there is something more glaringly wrong. I would try to use a different restrictor pill with a slightly larger hole before doing anything else.

Mike

Mike,

I can't remember if it did. I will look in the boxes (i'm a pack rat - always try to keep everything :D ) and see if there one that came with the turbo.

is this pill something I could buy from the dealership?

Thanks!
Jojo