Hey all,
I am going to be purchasing a 2006 WRX, coming from a 2002 WRX. Currently my '02 is running stg. 2...and I love it. I was over on Cobb's site checking out the maps etc...for the '06's and I found something odd (at least to me) How come the 02's with the smaller eng. and lower base numbers get a larger increase in hp/tq.?
Going by Cobb's info.
2002 stock hp/tq = 169/174
2002 stg. 2 hp/tq. = 224/223 an increase of 54hp/49tq.

2006 stock hp/tq. = 202/234
2006 stg. 2 hp/tq. = 224/271 an increase of 22hp/36tq. a difference of 32hp/13tq.

I was curious if there was any reasoning behind this? how come the 2006 doesn't increase the same amount? Any help/info. would be appreciated.
Sorry if this has been covered, I didn't really search. :p

I would think maybe because of the difference in ecu maps from the factory (pre-cobb maps)?

It's still the same tiny turbo.

It's still the same tiny turbo.
I know, but if they can squeeze the extra 54hp/49tq out of it on the 2-litre, why not the same amount on the 2.5-litre?

because it already operating closer to its max output on the larger engine.....

because it already operating closer to its max output on the larger engine.....
OK, thanks...that's the type of answer I was looking for.

yeah the turbo is a bottle neck....

But compare the 02-05 stg 2 CURVE to the 06 CURVE....

Although I like the curve on the 02-05 since its really really flat. The 06 has alot more gains not just at the peak. The HP is pretty much 25 more all the way till they both reach 224 on the 06 compared to the 02-05. And torque...lol...the 06 carries almost 50 more foot pounds of torque alllllll they way through the curve. Thats definately noticible and thats all from the displacement....

Once the car really starts breathing that turbo can only do so much....so hp gains arent that great at the peak, but getting there is a noticible bit difference.

I cant wait to run it at the track. I swear I feel like I have a 12.9x car with the only engine mods being TBE + OTS stg2 map....I doubt it possible but it definately feels the part....

im guessing those are wheel hp/tq #'s..... cobb says 334tq w/ stg2 on a 2006.... the new wrx is way underated from the factory if you didnt know that.

im guessing those are wheel hp/tq #'s..... cobb says 334tq w/ stg2 on a 2006.... the new wrx is way underated from the factory if you didnt know that.

?

I'm comparing two dyno charts from the same dyno but different cars against one another. Should be an extremely acturate means of comparing. Not comparing factory numbers....

.....deeeeeeeewwwwwwwwd.......a proper stage2 on an '06 is :eek: considering the td04...add a vfxx, walbro 342, and Protune or ST and :banana: for cheep

how much did you guys end up paying for your 2006 WRX's? I have been contemplating trading in my 02 for a newer wrx b/c of the 2.5 motor.

.....deeeeeeeewwwwwwwwd.......a proper stage2 on an '06 is :eek: considering the td04...add a vfxx, walbro 342, and Protune or ST and :banana: for cheep


Im just courious what you mean by this Scotty? Do you mean the Ap stage 2 is cheap considering what you get outta it or that getting to stage 2.5 with a protune is a better option?

- - Blue

Im just courious what you mean by this Scotty? Do you mean the Ap stage 2 is cheap considering what you get outta it or that getting to stage 2.5 with a protune is a better option?

- - Blue
I think he means both, stg.2 is great considering the small turbo (td04) and cheap and with a bigger turbo (vf-series) and a pro tune stg. 2.5 is a knock out.

Ahhhh - got ya. Thanks

going to try and pick up one this weekend.

I think one factor is that the '06 has a catless up-pipe. The '02-'05s have a cat in the up-pipe, so it's more restricted.

When going to Stage 2, an '06 only needs DP and TBE. An '02-'05 requires a catless UP in addition to these two things.

Therefore I'm not surprised that an '06 has less of an absolute gain in power than an '02 has.

I have an '06 with Cobb Stage 1. The aWHP gains were miniscule, and the aWTQ gain was roughly 7 ft-lbs. This shows the '06 is pretty maxxed out from the factory.

yeah the turbo is a bottle neck....

But compare the 02-05 stg 2 CURVE to the 06 CURVE....

Although I like the curve on the 02-05 since its really really flat. The 06 has alot more gains not just at the peak. The HP is pretty much 25 more all the way till they both reach 224 on the 06 compared to the 02-05. And torque...lol...the 06 carries almost 50 more foot pounds of torque alllllll they way through the curve. Thats definately noticible and thats all from the displacement....

Once the car really starts breathing that turbo can only do so much....so hp gains arent that great at the peak, but getting there is a noticible bit difference.

I cant wait to run it at the track. I swear I feel like I have a 12.9x car with the only engine mods being TBE + OTS stg2 map....I doubt it possible but it definately feels the part....


I hope your not talking about a STOCK 06 vs. a TBE/EM 2.0l...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/johnjanick/wrxstg2-vs-06wrx.gif


I think the added lowend on the Stage II 06 will net it a 12.9. But that'll mostly be fron the advantage out of the hole. Once past 4500, it should/does stay fairly close.

I hope your not talking about a STOCK 06 vs. a TBE/EM 2.0l...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/johnjanick/wrxstg2-vs-06wrx.gif


I think the added lowend on the Stage II 06 will net it a 12.9. But that'll mostly be fron the advantage out of the hole. Once past 4500, it should/does stay fairly close.

No no...I was talking about a STG2 06 vs STG2 02-05...

I'm having a tough time explaining what I'm trying to say but the 02-05 stg2 GAINS alot more hp/tq over the stg2 06 gain going to STG2 PEAK. The stg2 06 still has more power in the end but the peak GAIN isnt as much as the peak GAIN was in the 02-05. But if you compare the entire STG2 06 to the STG2 02-05 CURVE you'll see its a pretty impressive upgrade. Just not at the peak.

No no...I was talking about a STG2 06 vs STG2 02-05...

I'm having a tough time explaining what I'm trying to say but the 02-05 stg2 GAINS alot more hp/tq over the stg2 06 gain going to STG2 PEAK. The stg2 06 still has more power in the end but the peak GAIN isnt as much as the peak GAIN was in the 02-05. But if you compare the entire STG2 06 to the STG2 02-05 CURVE you'll see its a pretty impressive upgrade. Just not at the peak.

It has (06 Stage II) more power BEFORE about 4800ish RPM. After that, the curves are darn near identical. The 2.0l actually holds onto it more until redline.

All of that torque is giving the 06 a huge power advantage below 4800, you're right. But to say its just the PEAK power thats the same, thats not accurate either.

The whole high RPM range is equal.

Thats why a quick shifted 2.0l can keep up once rolling and up into the RPMs.

Your "area under the curve" is significantly more massive in the 2.5l. That makes for a much faster car in daily driving. More power at 3k doesn't help you if you aren't falling below 5k though in a competitive situation.

It has (06 Stage II) more power BEFORE about 4800ish RPM. After that, the curves are darn near identical.

Once above 4800, they're making the same power. The 2.0l actually holds onto it more until redline.

All of that torque is giving the 06 a huge power advantage below 4800, you're right, but to say its just teh PEAK power thats the same, thats not accurate either.. The whole high RPM range is equal. Thats why a quick shifted 2.0l can keep up once rolling and up into the RPMs.
He's not comparing "which has more hp/tq". He's just saying that the 02'-05' gains more (i.e. 5 < 6) vs. how much the 06' gains.

He's not comparing "which has more hp/tq". He's just saying that the 02'-05' gains more (i.e. 5 < 6) vs. how much the 06' gains.

Yes, I understand...he's also saying the look at the entire curve to see the difference between the two, which is right, he just left out half of the story. He only looked at the low range RPM.

Again, I was just mentioning that its not just the PEAK power that is the same. The 2.0 from 4800 on is indentical until about 5700, after that, the 2.0l actually HOLDS a little more power (about 10 whp more )than the 2.5l . (you can see the turbo running out the steam up there)

0-4800 RPM...06 stage II significantly dominates the 2.0l...about 25 WHP the whole way up. Its insane, the 2.5l is a MONSTER!

4800-5700... they are about identical

5700+....the 2.0l holds onto about 10 MORE whp than the 06.

Yes, I understand...he's also saying the look at the entire curve to see the difference between the two, which is right, he just left out half of the story. He only looked at the low range RPM.

Again, I was just mentioning that its not just the PEAK power that is the same. The 2.0 from 4800 on is indentical until about 5700, after that, the 2.0l actually HOLDS a little more power (about 10 whp more )than the 2.5l . (you can see the turbo running out the steam up there)

0-4800 RPM...06 stage II significantly dominates the 2.0l...about 25 WHP the whole way up. Its insane, the 2.5l is a MONSTER!

4800-5700... they are about identical

5700+....the 2.0l holds onto about 10 MORE whp than the 06.
Ah, ok. Gotcha.

I think one factor is that the '06 has a catless up-pipe. The '02-'05s have a cat in the up-pipe, so it's more restricted.

When going to Stage 2, an '06 only needs DP and TBE. An '02-'05 requires a catless UP in addition to these two things.

Therefore I'm not surprised that an '06 has less of an absolute gain in power than an '02 has.

I have an '06 with Cobb Stage 1. The aWHP gains were miniscule, and the aWTQ gain was roughly 7 ft-lbs. This shows the '06 is pretty maxxed out from the factory.
Where are you seeing that OTS stage 2 requites catless Up Pipe? No where, it's not required, although, Highly recommended.

The only things that are required for stage 2 is a TBE.

well, TECHNICALLY, just a DP :)
but it says, the UP is in the realm of the map, so it wouldnt hurt, or require a protune

Yes, I understand...he's also saying the look at the entire curve to see the difference between the two, which is right, he just left out half of the story. He only looked at the low range RPM.

Again, I was just mentioning that its not just the PEAK power that is the same. The 2.0 from 4800 on is indentical until about 5700, after that, the 2.0l actually HOLDS a little more power (about 10 whp more )than the 2.5l . (you can see the turbo running out the steam up there)

0-4800 RPM...06 stage II significantly dominates the 2.0l...about 25 WHP the whole way up. Its insane, the 2.5l is a MONSTER!

4800-5700... they are about identical

5700+....the 2.0l holds onto about 10 MORE whp than the 06.


I was on a train keeping myself occupied with Adobe PS and the Cobb 02-06 dyno maps. I basically posted a one on top of the other, stretched and skewed them around so I could see exactly the differences.

Right up too 5252 the 06 is dominates in torque. It tappers into the 02-05 curve. The HP is the same, it stay around 20 more hp up then quickly merges into the same curve as the 02-05 at 5252.

After that they remain right about the same. The 2.0 has about 1-3 hp over the 06 depending on how accurate or inaccurate I lined these things up....

......

To answer the orginal question. If your comparing peak GAINS. The 06 has around 25 HP@3530rpm and 50 ft-lbs@2920 over the 02-05. The peak the 06 has .4 hp and 47.9 ft-lbs of torque, peak rpm varies with each car. Before the peak the 06 has a bit more power from 0-4500 RPM, then the 06's hp and torque meets very quickly with the 02-05's. After the peak they remain about the same hp/tq, the 02-05 has a tad bit more on the 06. Looks to be around 1-3 hp.

Looks like the turbo is a bottleneck on the WRX. Probably perfectly sized for the 02-05, little undersized for the 06's.

PS. I dont have a way to host a pic, nor do I feel like signing up for something to host 1 picture. If someone wants to PM me there email address I'll send them the 02-05 stg2 vs the 06 stg2 dyno charts that have been overlayed and one made 50%transparent for easy comparison......

Hey CynicX,
You can get it hosted for free at www.imageshack.us or just PM it to me and I'll put it out there.
Thanks for the info.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/johnjanick/wrxstg2-vs-06wrx.gif


is this 06 got a stage 2 on it or stock?? :confused: :confused:

is this 06 got a stage 2 on it or stock?? :confused: :confused:

thats stock 06 vs stg 2 02-05....

Here is an overlay of 2002 stg.2 vs. 2006 stg.2, this is credited to CynicX. It's a little blurry, but you get the idea.
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/3512/02vs06stg27wp.th.jpg (http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=02vs06stg27wp.jpg)

After that they remain right about the same. The 2.0 has about 1-3 hp over the 06 depending on how accurate or inaccurate I lined these things up....

...

1-3 HP? Over the last 1k RPM, thats significantly more than 1-3. Not like it matter much up there, but thats a solid 7-10 ish at the end.

How do you get 1-3 looking at the end of the RPM range?