Anybody got the street tuner software. It's a little crazy to pay 400 bucks for it.

pm uncle scotty. ;)

I just ordered it. I'm hoping the last tuner I had will convert his Protune to Street-tune so I don't have to do a complete rebuild. And yeah - $400 is stupid. Almost made me want to repurchase a used UTEC. At least it is totally programmable from the get-go.

.....

$400 bucks is stoopid cheap in reality. This thing is really powerful for an "above consumer" level tool.

Just to make me feel better about taking the plunge; two weeks ago I finally had time to pnp my exhaust manifold. Up till then - three solid weeks of 0 Knock correction (positive signs of a stable tune). Within 4 hours the car told me that it didn't need as much advance, and a week later I was still backing and smoothing the timing down. All of that because it breathes a little easier. Now tell me, is four hundred bucks worth the peace of mind knowing that you have damn good control over the situation? My ecu was telling me that it could do with around 6* less timing in the high end and a few less in lower areas. If you mess with things constantly, you need the tools. If you just mod it and forget it, find a good protuner, and retune when eventually necessary.

ST is the goods...and just to help it, I'll be more than happy to share all of my ST maps...

later, x

$400 bucks is stoopid cheap in reality. This thing is really powerful for an "above consumer" level tool. x


i must agree i studied 6 months before i ever attempted my first map. it has built in constants u cant tune past but one wrong value and *boom* your done. start tuning rich and low boost and build from there. make sure u have an LC-1 or LM-1 for AFR. and above all know what your changeing and what it will affect across the whole map. take it slow! and 400 is hardly a lot compared to never really needing a dyno execpt for numbers when your done.

05 STi with Cobb Street Tuner
Cobb AP
B and B Down Pipe
Megan Cat back Exhaust
Invidia Upipe and Headers
IHI VF 22 Turbo
Turbo XS Short Ram Intake
Turbo XS FMIC
ACT 6-Puck Clutch
ACT Pressure Plate
ACT Streetlight Flywheel
Sportcomp Boost, Airfuel, and Oil Pressure Gauges
Greddy Turbo Timer
VIS Carbon Fiber Trunk
Sparco Siena Seats
Sparco 6-Point Harnesses
Sparco Harness Bar
02 WRX Carpeting and Back Seat
Innovative LM-1 Air Fuel Unit
Bosh O2 Sensor
JDM Front and Rear Strut Tower Bars
JDM SPEC C Type RA Badges
04 STi Emblems
JDM STi Center Caps
Perrin 816CC Injectors (On Order)
Perrin Fuel Rails (In My Closet)
Walboro Fuel Pump (Next To The Rails)
Hyperflow Oil Catch Can (In Said Mentioned Closet)

I'm posting my maps for all to see. I basically have an 02 with the td04. I'm open for comments...Here goes...

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i285/samslappy/xfactorboosttables.jpg

Nice having the compressor map...

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i285/samslappy/xFactorfuel.jpg

Yup, a little rich, but remember that the load lightens up towards redline...

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i285/samslappy/xFactorrescaledkl.jpg

Rescaled; felt it was nessecary for better resolution...

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i285/samslappy/xFactorda.jpg
Cobb stg 2 off the shelf ka map

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i285/samslappy/xFactorprimaryandfinaltiming.jpg

Take the da map, add it to the top primary timing map, and you get the final timing advance numbers on the bottom map, barring any final kl corrections...

Adding up total timing was a tedious manual process, but I was blown away at how rough the final curve was, and it explained lots of unnessecary pulled timing in the kl table.

All right everyone, your turn...

later, x

I just ordered it. I'm hoping the last tuner I had will convert his Protune to Street-tune so I don't have to do a complete rebuild. And yeah - $400 is stupid. Almost made me want to repurchase a used UTEC. At least it is totally programmable from the get-go.

Total price new the Utec and ST+AP is ~ the same price. The ST is so much better once you learn how to use it.

TMS

Total price new the Utec and ST+AP is ~ the same price. The ST is so much better once you learn how to use it.

TMS


Your right, I realized that after I posted. Also, after speaking with Cobb and talking with fellow Nasioc members, I retract my recent statement of saying it was stupid. I think I was broke that day and angry...

re: xFactor

Your boost and wastegate maps seem to be waaay too aggressive for a td-04??? :huh:
Maybe it's just me, but 20 psi is too much for the stocker (blowing hot air = not good). Also, you may experience boost spiking using 100% wastegate duty cycle above 3000 rpm. Fuel and timing maps look good.

I read that using more than 95-96% WDC can f up your the wastegate solenoid over time.

I read that using more than 95-96% WDC can f up your the wastegate solenoid over time.

Who says he is running a stock WG solenoid. ;)

I am probably going to break down and buy ST soon. When I do, the Perrin EBCS goes on.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=988825&page=1&pp=25

Good read...

Yeah I know I'm pushing the crap out of it, but there are a lot of nay-sayers out there that have done nothing but follow the crowd. I try things, you can't hit one out of the park if you don't try...

Boost ramps down @ 6800 rpm, and 100% wgdc is aggressive, but remember, this is my tune for my driving style, and I like my response fast and spikey. Rarely do I find myself staying at wot for extended periods. Heck, I still want faster boost response, you'd probably say I'm "nuts" for gaining up the Turbo dynamics burst table. But I did...

All I know is that evo and skittle owner's don't like the fact that a td04 walked them on a roll.

I still welcome opinions. BTW, I have parts everywhere, so if something fails, I'm all-right, giggidy giggidy... :D

later, x

What kind of timing are you running safely with that 20psi?

Do you get any spiking with that map?

Okay, let's set this straight that I have no official nor sanctioned clue as to what I'm doing. I'm just trying to get some examples and discussion of how we are all trying to (or not trying to) blow up our engines... :devil:

But hey, I have a few parts hanging out in the sidelines, so I'm "going for it" on the td04. Lately I'm wondering how much a vf39 really is going to out perform my current setup..........We'll see.

I drive in some lame ass conditions...grey hairs everywhere...and the wonderful situation I call Florida drag racing...three lanes of who can accelerate the slowest to 5 under in the most time of their last remaining years of life...Curse of the WRX...

My tuning aspect is definately 1-3rd gear performance, hence the silly wgdc and target pressure. I just don't really ream on 4th or 5th gears. Still, I realize that if/when it happens, to tip easy into 40-60% tps until higher rpm to get best results, or just drop a gear , and you all know..

Right now, PTFB situations are welcome. ;) It's tuned for it! It's actually nice to hit 17psig pressing hard 2nd gear, or 13psig @ 50% tps cracking it in 3rd. Super meaty midrange... But I'm still not going to see 20psi in the manifold with the fbcs in those gears.

Tea Cups is on to the whole building turbo speed up train of thought...If you are asking a lot of pressure down low, you keep the wgdc up high - in theory- which pushes more energy through the turbine, and basically the turbo spools as fast as it naturally can. The way I see it , as long as you bring the Pr (pressure ratio) down to, well, most everyone had it right at about 13psig @ 6k rpms, you can push a td04 HARD!

Hitting those target boost numbers still doesn't happen often with the fbcs. I still have the option of going to the gm solenoid (totally different system)sitting in my toolbox when I'm bored, but I keep playing with new maps like the "Burst" table, and I'm not quite done with monkeying with the factory system yet...

No, it doesn't "spike", it only tries to hit what I asked for, and most of the time - <80% tps, it's right on...

With more efficiency comes more flow, and with that a need for less timing, a lot less :eek: . Check back at the tables...If you still don't understand my quick explanation of the duel primary maps let me know...

C'm on evr'body-don't be skurrd, post up your maps...

If ST users are still running off of their "best possible ots map", you haven't made use of your investment. It needs sooo much work. Stg2 ots ran horrible compared to the exede ots map. Now that system was set up for boost response... But it sucks to what is going on now! :D

My car has run soo much better, and more important, consistant :alien: since I've gotten serious about tuning...

later, x

ok on the timing maps, u divided your final use timing and then input those numbers. my STi one has 3 compensation timing mapos and one final. i think im going to try what u did, but divide by 3. and once i get it running right u can bet ill show the maps!

Who says he is running a stock WG solenoid. ;) I am probably going to break down and buy ST soon. When I do, the Perrin EBCS goes on.
FYI, the stock BCS works VERY well...much more consistently than any other EBCS we have tested on internally wastegated turbos. You will save yourself time and headaches if you just go with the stock boost control solenoid. The Pro Drive EBCS works perfect with external wastegates.

Take care,
Christian.

Just out of curiosity, where do you guys get the knowledge to do this stuff?
I want to know everything about it

I will try to post up my boost and wastegate maps when i get home. I detuned mine for drivability and a smoother boost. Did not like on/off boost of the cobb maps. So far i think ST is well worth the investment. Just wish i could get rid of the tip in problem. anyone fix that yet? I am thinking either changing the tip in enrichment injector settings or pulling timing ( which kinda take power away due to knock only happening on tip in).

Also has anyone changed the load scales? I constantly see loads of over 4.0 . That is going to be another area i am going to try next.

i have contacted a few people on here and they can atest to this. ... i contacted christian at COBB. he sent me a how to guide to tune the AP plus an injector EXCEL spread sheet. if u are interested, just PM me.

later
gino

Hey, you all are a bunch of slackers! :D C'mon, let the world see your work!

Anyway, I just finished up with my vf-39 and modded injectors, and wow the top is pretty cool. hehe. But of coarse the midrange right now is a little weak, 'specially compared to a dinky td04.

The injector install went smooth, and I plugged 3034 for the scale value, and it idled right away, albeit a little chunky. So I slowly raised the scale value until it trimmed out close to zero, right now 4300ish. Odd, but it is working, and I know that it will still need more tweaking. Damn, ST is cool when you can get big ole injectors to run smooth on the factory turbo.

So after the injectors I popped in the vf-39, and tried it out, but then my lap top battery died, and had to run around on my current tune, which is a little different than the one I posted above, but not too far off. Not too shabby. It's a little rich, which confirms my scale value is off, but it is alright for now.

So who has the cahones to post up a few vf-xx maps they have? Help a brutha out... ;)

later, x

The injector install went smooth, and I plugged 3034 for the scale value, and it idled right away, albeit a little chunky. So I slowly raised the scale value until it trimmed out close to zero, right now 4300ish. Odd, but it is working, and I know that it will still need more tweaking.
later, x


Actually, this makes me feel better. I have the PE800's which are supposed to scale to 3382. It will idle at that value, but like yours I ended up settling around 4300 for a 0-0.39 trim value. Idle is almost factory perfect.

Now on to Intake calibration - thanks to nhluhr for all his help on this section!!

I will post up maps as soon as I get something else going here.

im thinking about getting this street tuner.does it comes with a base map? and how hard is it?(to tune that is?)

Guys, can you do anti-lag and such with the ST software? How good will it be for EMS for a rally car? I already have an AP, Stg 2 and getting a PDX Dyno protune in July.

Update...

I continued tweaking on injector scale, brought it down a little because the LT (learned) fuel trim was removing 7-10% in most CL conditions. I'm now running 4175 ish here, and it seems closer...

But it still gets stoopid rich cracking into it, even lightly. I'm seeing 9's on the wideband again! :lol: So next on my agenda is the Tip In map. Here I think lies success. The only thing that disheartens me with this is the fact it is a basemap. I'm sure I'll ramble about how that works out tomorrow...

Check out an interesting log snippet:


http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i285/samslappy/logsnippet.jpg

17psi, not bad for 4000rpm in 2nd gear by the numbers, but it still was a bit soggy feeling due to it being a wee-bit :p rich...



i have contacted a few people on here and they can atest to this. ... i contacted christian at COBB. he sent me a how to guide to tune the AP plus an injector EXCEL spread sheet. if u are interested, just PM me.

later
gino

rek888v2 - That was a good find man! It was good to understand how to better use the dashboard to tune things like tip in and boost curves. It just sucks that my laptop isn't fast enough to catch everything, my logs get a little chunky.

I'm starting to see some new load values ;) , now it's way over the scale, from 2.14 before to 2.46 now. That explains how my tune settles back to 12afr up top. Time to rescale...

...long way to go... :rolleyes: ... :devil:

Errr, uhhh...ST doesn't have any intentional anti-lag capabilities, but a rich tune, a short rev limiter, and a bov could possibly make cool fireballs! :devil: ...

...and it doesn't seem impossible to tune with the ST, but that has to do with the user. It does have basemaps, but, in my humble opinion, the are pretty weak. In theory that should encourage you to actually start using ST :p .

later,x

xfactor

As far as the timing is concerned - its a bit confusing with DA and DAM.

Am I right in saying :

As the ECu goes from CL to OL the DA begins to take effect. I see that the DA is 7.50, timing itself is at 13.50, while your multiplier is at 16 - referring to the highlighted blue line.

So - overall timing is actually 21 degrees - correct?

My math tells me (if I understand correctly) the the multiplier 0-16 is broken into percentages of how much of the advance is added to the ignition timing table.

0 being 0%
4 being 25%
8 being 50%
12 being 75%
16 being 100%

Soooo... if your DAM is at 16 - that means the advance value is used 100% in ADDITION to your main timing table value. Hence, 13.50 + 7.50 = 21*

If your DAM were to be at 8 - this means the DA value would be 50% of that 7.50 which is 3.75 in addition to 13.50 equaling 17.25* of total timing.

I could be WAY off on this - is this right. And why is it not just easier to zero out the DAM and plug in exact timing values in main ignition table?

I suppose it gives the ECU "free-reign" to advance as needed... :confused:

Thanks for any input on this

First of all......change ALL OL/CL delay numbers to '0'......save map.....tune from there.

I could be WAY off on this - is this right. And why is it not just easier to zero out the DAM and plug in exact timing values in main ignition table?

I suppose it gives the ECU "free-reign" to advance as needed... :confused:

Thanks for any input on this
Zeroing out the knock correction map and tuning just the main ignition is a really bad idea. The whole purpose of DAM and KC map is to give the ECU a safety buffer to reduce timing in event of knock, which could happen with a heatsoaked IC, some bad gas, etc. The great thing about it, is that it very flexible system.

So, here's what happens. Say your DAM is 16 and you are essentially using every max value on the knock correction map. And you are driving around and the knock sensor hears some bad knock at 3000 rpm/3.0 load site. The ECU will reduce the KC timing at/around that rpm/load site by flagging some negative referenced value in RAM. So, hopefully, next time you hit that situation again, you won't knock because timing is reduced (say before it was 9, now 7). But, if it is seeing a lot of knock that it can't control in this method, it will reduce your DAM to, say 15. So, then essentially every value in the KC map is reduced and is (KC timing * 15/16). The ECU can reduce the DAM very fast, it might not just be down 1 at a time, but can drop very fast if it is seeing heavy knock. If it drops below 4(?), then the ECU switches to a high detonation fuel map which is richer. Now, if it is at a DAM less than 16, and it is seeing no knock and using max KC values, then it will decide to switch up to a higher DAM up to a max of 16.

First of all......change ALL OL/CL delay numbers to '0'......save map.....tune from there.

Havn't some people had a problem with doing this? I can't find the thread right now, but somthing about bucking or something.
Either way you can use the STi values provided with ST if you need another good starting point. I currently run all 0's like uncle scotty said :D

In regards to the base timing and DAM, i have been adding timing to the base map while i have also smoothed our the DAM map to advance and watch for knock. Seems to have been working good so far.

I am getting some knock on lift off though. anyone else having this problem and found a way to fix it? I got the tip in fixed by increasing the tip in value for now.

subscribed...

Zeroing out the knock correction map and tuning just the main ignition is a really bad idea. The whole purpose of DAM and KC map is to give the ECU a safety buffer to reduce timing in event of knock, which could happen with a heatsoaked IC, some bad gas, etc. The great thing about it, is that it very flexible system.



Even if the DA is 0 the ECU can still reduce it to negitive #'s. At least in the Sti.

TMS

One of this first things that I found bad with the supplied basemap was the cl/ol transition.. It was agonizingly slow, and damn scary to watch 12psi and 14's on the wideband. I took a different approach in adjusting the cl/ol tables, especially when no one could answer exactly what the tables and values represented. Instead of zeroing everything, I changed everything that wasn't 0 to 50. BTW, the basemap had the "STi" numbers already programed, and uh, they sucked in my opinion. With the factory injectors, the switch over was clean and smoothly richened up. With the modded injectors, it fattens up too quick, even when just cracking into ol briefly.

The timing maps don't follow the fuel cl/ol transitions, although I do believe they have their own cl/ol modes. The log show final applied timing, and you subtract your base timing from that. That leaves you with the advance numbers. If the advance numbers don't equal what you asked for, the ecu has applied learned correction to the map, usually negative.

I had recently experieced the ecu showing -1.5 KC at low load cruise conditions. That correlated to a -1.5 at those same points in the learned correction read only map. I pulled out the timing, and without resetting the ecu, continued driving around. The next day, I only saw -1 at the same points, and after two days, -.5. The next day it had zeroed back out, proof the ecu had relearned the changes. To me, I saw the ecu applies the learned KC before the KA at all times.


My tinkering with tip in didn't work out exactly the way I wanted. Pulling off the line, it stumbles. So back to the drawing board...

Right now, I think my biggest problem is my map scaling. I'm waaay over. I hope when I rescale everything, the over rich conditions will smooth out.

I'll let everyone know how that works out.

later, x

Even if the DA is 0 the ECU can still reduce it to negitive #'s. At least in the Sti.

TMS
True, I think I saw one of the tables for minimum negative knock correction at it is -12 or -10, but KC learning is sort of a spot treatment. If you accidently filled up with 87 octane and you have zero'd out KC map and higher base ignition to compensate, your car would have to experience detonation in each load/rpm site until it learned to go negative there. Whereas, with the normal base ignition and KC maps, it could reduce the IAM quickly after seeing the severe knock essentially lowering the timing ACROSS THE BOARD, so if you hit enough load after the first knock events with 87 octane, you wouldn't have to experience the knock (or it would be less severe) and wait for the KC learning to kick in at each load/rpm site you experience detonation in. That sounds a lot safer.

One of teh things i have been doing is making a speadsheet with the parameters and targets and then going over the logs and marking everything as under or over. Very helpful for DAM/AF/BOOST/WG . so far its one of the quickest and easist ways to get going in the right direction.

My rule for timing: advance 1 degree at a time till i get knock, then back off 2-3
My rule for A/F: lean it up .2 until you get knock or until you get to 11.2 (for WOT)
I have not worked out a plan for PT A/F yet.
My rule for boost: hit 15 as early as posible then taper down to 13 by redline

The may or may not work for you and i am not responsible for any damages caused by follwong this information.

If anyone has anything to suggest or add to these rules or methods please feel free to as this is also a learning process for me.

One of teh things i have been doing is making a speadsheet with the parameters and targets and then going over the logs and marking everything as under or over. Very helpful for DAM/AF/BOOST/WG . so far its one of the quickest and easist ways to get going in the right direction.

My rule for timing: advance 1 degree at a time till i get knock, then back off 2-3
My rule for A/F: lean it up .2 until you get knock or until you get to 11.2 (for WOT)
I have not worked out a plan for PT A/F yet.
My rule for boost: hit 15 as early as posible then taper down to 13 by redline

The may or may not work for you and i am not responsible for any damages caused by follwong this information.

If anyone has anything to suggest or add to these rules or methods please feel free to as this is also a learning process for me.

ECUedit has a function to link up your logs with any table of your choosing - fuel, timing, etc. It highlights the cells that were referenced in your log. Problem is, he's added a delay which will only be removed for the future non-demo release.

Is this kind of like the "trace" feature?

OK, long awaited ramble...

I'm rescaled to a load point of 2.48 in my fuel, timing, KC, and LKC maps. As odd as it probably seems to most, I only changed the load points without really altering the "curve". I felt that at about 1.0 load and higher was the target rescale area. This worked out well, the cl/ol transition was closer to being smoother, but I would still see it popping in and out, with fluctuating afr's at low tps until the 4krpm switchover, then pow, ol, 10's on the wb, and power comes on. Then I switched out the fuel pump....

I had been running the modded stockers off of the factory fp for a couple of weeks, and saw plenty a low number on the wb, so I wasn't worried about not suppling enough fuel. But in hoping to "theoretically" :rolleyes: lower my injector scaler down a lot I got the 255. After installing that, my scaler hasn't really been able to change, and now I can induce 9's on the wb. Obviously this is a major step back...

So right now, I've added a little bit back to the low end of the Tip In map, and no more stumbling. My primary fuel is no lower than 12, and I'm still seeing high 10's on the wb, so right now it is all about imagining the appropriate value in the right area to hit a theoretical number that I would like to see. ;)

Questions everywhere...

First, does anyone know what the Fuel Pump Duty Cycle map would spec out like. What loads does it ramp up at? I know this has to be messing with me...

Second, what injector scaler do other modded stock users find work well for them. Is it as far off as other injectors? Please chime in! :) :)

I've run out of beer...

later, x

ok streettuners... I have a solid base map now (thanks to Christian at Cobb) and I am starting to tune my boost targets and WGDC table.

Mods, FYI,

2002 WRX
EJ257
PE800's
FMIC
Green turbo
walbro
Perrin inlet
Perrin up
APS down, + exhaust back
Tial 38mm gate
Tial BOV
Prodrive solenoid
Cobb ST/AP combo

Ok-so, my first attempt in setting some boost values went decent.As a matter of fact, they went real good at partial throttle in 3rd gear. I hit or got real close to target value - which peaked at 14psi. (I'm going slow-I know I need to shoot for higer)
But at WOT - by 4000rpm in 3rd gear my boost skyrockets up to 20 before I let off the throttle!!!! :confused: :confused:
My target value highest point is 14psi at 100%. with WGDC amount around 80% at the highest.
Could a leak in the up-pipe cause the spiking? I believe I have a small one.
Also, I removed my restrictor pill when the ext. gate was installed. Should I replace it?
I would post my map, but can't figure out how to save picture as, at the map page.
thanks

Posting isn't that hard, but you do need Photobucket or the sort to host your pics. Get the maps you want on the screen, then take a screen shot (the print screen button). Open up mspaint in the start/accessories menu, and paste the screen shot. Save the image as a jpeg. Open up your Photobucket account, upload the pics. Come back here, and load the image from Photobucket.

Now let's see some maps!

later, x

If you push either ctrl or alt while pushing print screen it will only print the screen you have selected.

I also posted this thread (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1011076) to see if we can gets a library of maps up somewher for d/l and upload

Alos code would be better since some people might want to try the base map (it would be much quicker to copy it in this way)

um, not sure if you guys know but the street tuner software is now under $200 new!

195 to be exact...but there is the 'new' version coming out later on this year called Advanced StreetTUNER....

^Now THAT is stupid cheap, that's getting into the area where people will get it just to check it out. How hard, and how willing are tuners to change protune maps to streettune maps? I'd go for $195, but I wouldn't be thrilled about having to start from scratch when I've already got a protune (which I don't think likes the local gas).



....something tells me that they might be adding some of the features offered with the UTEC with the new $400 version.

First of all......change ALL OL/CL delay numbers to '0'......save map.....tune from there.
I would not suggest you use all zero values in the WRX CL/OL Delay Tables...please hit the F1 key (while in the StreetTUNER software and the CL/OL Delay table is highlighted in the map list) and read about the setting we suggest you use. I would not use zero values because the values are arbitrarily set-up by the ECU calibrator and setting your delays to zero can mess up how the vehicle runs or it could actually extend the delay...it all depends on what vehicle you are tuning. Make sense?

Take care,
Christian.