OK, My 05 WRX is setup with VF22, pinks, Sti tmic, Walbro pump, Perrin EBCS,HKS BOV, and TBE. I have it flashed with Ecutek and was tuned for 19.5 lbs peak.....tapering to 15.5 at redline. When the car was street tuned it hit target boost everytime easily. The next day, the car was only hitting 16 lbs peak. I decided to take it back for a retune and on the way there it was hitting target boost agian 19.5. Now, the car is doing it again. My boost is so random. Lately, the car only hits about 16 lbs peak and occasionally will hit the target 19.5. It's like the ECU is learnig less boost. I was thinking that I may have a leak somewhere, howeverit is so random and occasionally I do hit target boost. Here is the kicker, If I reset the ECU......the car pulls like normal .....hitting 19.5 lbs. However, after a day or 2 of driving the boost works it's way down to 16 again. :mad: This is so frustrating. Anyone have/had this issue? What do you all think? Right now I am at a loss :confused: I am going to try changing the BOV back to stock and checking the TMIC y pipe but I don't think it is a leak since when I reset the ECU target boost is achieved :confused:

no one?

My guess is that the engine is sensing knock at the higher boost and pulling timing back. When you reset the ECU, it forgets this learned behavior and has to figure it out all over again.

Try putting in some octane booster to see if it manages to keep the higher boost for longer periods of time.

Well, from what I have read the boost only has two modes the tuned target boost and the knock boost map which is wastgate only. Like 8 lbs. If I was knockin the knock correction maps would take over

There are a few reasons the boost could be lower.

1. The target boost levels are lower than the wastegate duty cycle's. So in turn the ECU will try and pull out the boost to reach target boost.
2. Your car is seeing a fair amount of detonation and the ECU is yanking down the advance multiplier. It is yanks it down far enough the ECU will drop the boost to a much lower value.
3. Temperature compensation in regards to water and air. If the water or air is too warm or too cool, the ECU will pull boost also.

A lot of these factors are based around the tune more than anything else.

Cheers,
William T. Knose Jr.
Lead Programmer
I-Speed USA

There are a few reasons the boost could be lower.

1. The target boost levels are lower than the wastegate duty cycle's. So in turn the ECU will try and pull out the boost to reach target boost.
2. Your car is seeing a fair amount of detonation and the ECU is yanking down the advance multiplier. It is yanks it down far enough the ECU will drop the boost to a much lower value.
3. Temperature compensation in regards to water and air. If the water or air is too warm or too cool, the ECU will pull boost also.

A lot of these factors are based around the tune more than anything else.

Cheers,
William T. Knose Jr.
Lead Programmer
I-Speed USA

In regards to the #2, If my car was seeing detonation.......Wouldn't the Knock correction map kick in. My tune is set to run just wastegate and extremely rich if the ECU detects knock. If I was getting fair amount of knock I would think it would kick in by now. Am I right or am I overlooking a learning factor in the ECU.

Also, as far as #1. Could you clarify, should the wastegate duty cycle be higher than the target boost level?


Thanks in advance!

bizzump

anyone else

I do believe if the IAM is too low or knock levels are too high it will cut boost eventually. I don't know the exact mechanism for controlling this, though.

If resetting the ECU makes your boost go back up, then your car is learning SOMETHING that is making it unhappy.

As Bill said, the car can cut boost if you see too much knock and your IAM is lowered past 4 (this is the stock value- it can be changed by your tuner). The best way to see if this condition is occurring is to get a datalogger on your car and see what the IAM is when the boost is low. Since the IAM is dynamic, it may be straddling the line of where boost is enabled and not, so it advances, you get boost, that causes knock, and then it gets lower again.

Also, is there a correllation between when the car lowers boost and temperature? I've never used the Perrin EBCS, however, I know with the GM 3 port solenoid, all of the compensation maps had to be modified to keep things consistent. It is a lot more sensative so the stock temp compensation values are too drastic and cause boost to be inconsistent.

Datalogs should tell for sure what's goign on.

Thanks,
Mike

In regards to the #2, If my car was seeing detonation.......Wouldn't the Knock correction map kick in. My tune is set to run just wastegate and extremely rich if the ECU detects knock. If I was getting fair amount of knock I would think it would kick in by now. Am I right or am I overlooking a learning factor in the ECU.

Also, as far as #1. Could you clarify, should the wastegate duty cycle be higher than the target boost level?


Thanks in advance!

Little slow on the response, I apologize.

If the car detects knock it will pull out timing from the knock correction map and if it gets bad enough the advance multiplier will start to drop. But both of these settings are based around the tuner of the vehicle.

If the values were set improperly:
1. The ECU may not pull any timing from the knock correction map and may not do anything with the advance multiplier.
2. The ECU will yank out to much timing; in turn this will affect the fueling and cause it to run to rich.

In all, the fueling mixture has little effect on detonation compared to timing. If you have to much timing when the car is rich or lean it will detonate. Where as if the cars timing is correct, running it relatively rich will wash the cylinder walls down and running too lean will cause the car to detonate.

So it is really dependant on the tune more than anything.

I am giving off free info to internet tuners here, as for the WG Duty, this should be lower than the desired boost. So if it set higher this will have ill affects on the tune and cause the car to possibly detonate, run too lean or too rich depending the safety features and tune in the vehicle.

There is quite a bit that goes into programming the stock ECU, you can't just change the few standard features on the ECU, unless the car is completely stock. Any modifications require more advance programming beyond timing, fueling and boost.

Sorry if I rambled on, there is a lot in the ECU and trying to sum it up for specific setups is quite difficult.

Cheers,
William T. Knose Jr.
Lead Programmer
Crawford Performance / I-Speed USA

i just recently had my car reflashed with ecutech(5 days ago) and today I cranked up in the driveway and it idled rather rough for a few seconds ,I reved it a little and it smoothed out,as I was driving I tried to accelerate and realized I could only boost to 5-7 lbs,I had no clue what was up,So I pulled over and reset the ecu and back to my 17.5 like the day before,I drove 300 miles home from georgia nd no problems as of yet.Gonna go see my tuner monday and see whats up. :(

OK, My 05 WRX is setup with VF22, pinks, Sti tmic, Walbro pump, Perrin EBCS,HKS BOV, and TBE.


Ecutek suggest that you use the stock boost control solenoid.

I am giving off free info to internet tuners here, as for the WG Duty, this should be lower than the desired boost. So if it set higher this will have ill affects on the tune and cause the car to possibly detonate, run too lean or too rich depending the safety features and tune in the vehicle.

Cheers,
William T. Knose Jr.
Lead Programmer
Crawford Performance / I-Speed USA

I do believe that max wastegate duty cycle is suppose to be 10%
greater than initial wastegate duty cycle and not the other way around.
Initial wastegate is suppose to be desired boost.
please check with your Ecutek representative.

if you pass on information that is not clear, the facts will be misconstruded
by the masses and thats where the term a little bit of information can be
dangerous, believe that was Winston Churchill..

jaxscuby-sent you a pm

I do believe that max wastegate duty cycle is suppose to be 10%
greater than initial wastegate duty cycle and not the other way around.
Initial wastegate is suppose to be desired boost.
please check with your Ecutek representative.

if you pass on information that is not clear, the facts will be misconstruded
by the masses and thats where the term a little bit of information can be
dangerous, believe that was Winston Churchill..

Thank you for taking the time to explain what your views, but I think you miss-read the first post. The vehicle is a 2005 WRX (not a STi), in this case there are no initial WG duty cycle's in the map, max WG duty cycles control the desired boost levels. I hope you do not tune 2.0 Liter WRX's with 2.5 Liter STi maps... :eek:

As you have stated "if you pass on information that is not clear, the facts will be misconstrued by the masses..." I would suggest getting a refresher course from Ben at EcuTeK (North American EcuTeK Representative) on the difference between the 2.0 Liter WRX and 2.5 Liter STi models.

i just recently had my car reflashed with ecutech(5 days ago) and today I cranked up in the driveway and it idled rather rough for a few seconds ,I reved it a little and it smoothed out,as I was driving I tried to accelerate and realized I could only boost to 5-7 lbs,I had no clue what was up,So I pulled over and reset the ecu and back to my 17.5 like the day before,I drove 300 miles home from georgia nd no problems as of yet.Gonna go see my tuner monday and see whats up.

From the sounds of it, the ECU is pulling down the Advance Multiplier because it is seeing detonation. The detonation could be from a few different reasons, too much boost, too much timing or too little fuel. It is hard to say without seeing some datalogs or running it on the dyno.

When the ECU pulls down the AM far enough the ECU will go into a limp mode where the wastegate solenoid will shut off. In turn this drops the boost to wastegate spring levels, which are about 7-8 PSI on a stock WRX turbo. This is a very series problem and I would recommend would having this looked at right away, otherwise you could have a large paperweight on your desk.

Cheers,
William T. Knose Jr.
Lead Programmer
Crawford Performance / I-Speed USA

well it has been 5 days since the "hiccup",I have had no boost problems or anything wrong since the reset.I have not had a chance to get to the shop to get the car data logged but so far so good.the car is running like a charm and does not appear to be pulling timing or knock that I can tell.

i have the same problem but not as severe, my ECUtek is set to 15.5 max boost but on some days it will only hit 13-14psi, i would have to put in a few runs where i really get on it then it will go back up to 15.5 for awhile. not reallhy sure why

i have the same problem but not as severe, my ECUtek is set to 15.5 max boost but on some days it will only hit 13-14psi, i would have to put in a few runs where i really get on it then it will go back up to 15.5 for awhile. not reallhy sure why

What modifications are on your vehicle?
When it was first tuned did it hit 15.5 PSI?
When driving the car, does it do anything out of the ordinary? Jerk, sputter, CEL flashes, etc...

Let us know,
Crawford Performance / I-Speed USA

I had my sti reflashed about 3 weeks ago. I had it reflashed for a perrin tbe and an injen cai. Took the car out for a test drive and was very dissapointed. First gear was a very l o n g gear. Would only hit 7-9 psi. Thinking I was just imaginig things, I took my lovely wife for a ride. She also said that it felt slower and that it didnt make her feel sick like it did before. :D I got ahold of the tuner and he suggested increasing the boost pressure but I thought the tune was supposed to make it faster. Couldve saved myself $500 and just increased the boost :confused:

^^^ Get a new tuner. Where did you take it?

I had my sti reflashed about 3 weeks ago. I had it reflashed for a perrin tbe and an injen cai. Took the car out for a test drive and was very dissapointed. First gear was a very l o n g gear. Would only hit 7-9 psi. Thinking I was just imaginig things, I took my lovely wife for a ride. She also said that it felt slower and that it didnt make her feel sick like it did before. :D I got ahold of the tuner and he suggested increasing the boost pressure but I thought the tune was supposed to make it faster. Couldve saved myself $500 and just increased the boost :confused:


holler at Scott Siegel and fire your current tuner

I had my sti reflashed about 3 weeks ago. I had it reflashed for a perrin tbe and an injen cai. Took the car out for a test drive and was very dissapointed. First gear was a very l o n g gear. Would only hit 7-9 psi. Thinking I was just imaginig things, I took my lovely wife for a ride. She also said that it felt slower and that it didnt make her feel sick like it did before. :D I got ahold of the tuner and he suggested increasing the boost pressure but I thought the tune was supposed to make it faster. Couldve saved myself $500 and just increased the boost :confused:

Wow, I hope the tuners that did the job took the work back and got you a proper tune.
Please, let me know when you have a problem with your tune/tuner. This is why I am available overr the phone and via e-mail.

it could be that your not hitting your multiplier... but 7-9psi sounds about right in 1st gear, your not suppose to max out in 1st gear.

I defenetly thinks that the problems lies in the WG duty and the desired boost settings. this needs to be adressed by your tuner.

if they need help/suggestions ask them to contact me.

Cheers !

Ben
EcuTeK North America
ben@ecutek.com

OK, My 05 WRX is setup with VF22, pinks, Sti tmic, Walbro pump, Perrin EBCS,HKS BOV, and TBE. I have it flashed with Ecutek and was tuned for 19.5 lbs peak.....tapering to 15.5 at redline. When the car was street tuned it hit target boost everytime easily. The next day, the car was only hitting 16 lbs peak. I decided to take it back for a retune and on the way there it was hitting target boost agian 19.5. Now, the car is doing it again. My boost is so random. Lately, the car only hits about 16 lbs peak and occasionally will hit the target 19.5. It's like the ECU is learnig less boost. I was thinking that I may have a leak somewhere, howeverit is so random and occasionally I do hit target boost. Here is the kicker, If I reset the ECU......the car pulls like normal .....hitting 19.5 lbs. However, after a day or 2 of driving the boost works it's way down to 16 again. :mad: This is so frustrating. Anyone have/had this issue? What do you all think? Right now I am at a loss :confused: I am going to try changing the BOV back to stock and checking the TMIC y pipe but I don't think it is a leak since when I reset the ECU target boost is achieved :confused:


Correct me if I'm wrong (and for the sake of those who might come across this)....but wasnt the problem with the Perrin EBCS failing?

I am having the same problem right now. I am supposed to be hitting 22-23 psi and I can only get 19.5-20 psi. Car smells way rich lately. I did notice last night that if I PLANT the gas pedal into the floor I'll boost more but the throttle cable is nice a snug with a slight slack. I need to Tari datalog it and see what's up.

yeah, we found out my problem and apparently it was the EBCS was bad

Hmmm how you determine if the EBCS is bad or not? Mine has slightly rusted on top.

I do believe that max wastegate duty cycle is suppose to be 10%
greater than initial wastegate duty cycle and not the other way around.
Initial wastegate is suppose to be desired boost.
please check with your Ecutek representative.

if you pass on information that is not clear, the facts will be misconstruded
by the masses and thats where the term a little bit of information can be
dangerous, believe that was Winston Churchill..

Interesting statement you and Bill mentioned. How can you determine the correlation between the WGD (in % of boost solenoid activity) and Desired Boost (in PSI or Bars). For any given setup i.e. Turbo, injector, engineblock, exhuast system, etc. To acheive one particular boost level, WGD varies depending on in which gear you are running, ambient temperature, altitude, gradient.

Had I known such relation, It would have been much easier for me to tune boost from ecu rom.:o

Interesting statement you and Bill mentioned. How can you determine the correlation between the WGD (in % of boost solenoid activity) and Desired Boost (in PSI or Bars). For any given setup i.e. Turbo, injector, engineblock, exhuast system, etc. To acheive one particular boost level, WGD varies depending on in which gear you are running, ambient temperature, altitude, gradient.

Had I known such relation, It would have been much easier for me to tune boost from ecu rom.:o

You are correct for any given day the gears can have an affect on boost levels, except in a Spec C ECU. :) But from what the I'm Slow stated in his/her first post, " If I reset the ECU......the car pulls like normal .....hitting 19.5 lbs. However, after a day or 2 of driving the boost works it's way down to 16 again."

I am assuming by what I'm Slow stated that the car was driven in the same gear. Where as other atmospheric conditions have very little affect on the boost when they are tuned properly. If boost drops that much in a few days I would be concerned about the vehicle.

Cheers,
Crawford Performance / I-Speed USA

I had my sti reflashed about 3 weeks ago. I had it reflashed for a perrin tbe and an injen cai. Took the car out for a test drive and was very dissapointed. First gear was a very l o n g gear. Would only hit 7-9 psi. Thinking I was just imaginig things, I took my lovely wife for a ride. She also said that it felt slower and that it didnt make her feel sick like it did before. :D I got ahold of the tuner and he suggested increasing the boost pressure but I thought the tune was supposed to make it faster. Couldve saved myself $500 and just increased the boost :confused:

This is a tough problem because sometimes less boost will actually make more power, if you can believe it. Also the tuner might have taken into consideration other gears where the boost will be much higher. What it really comes down to is how the car feels compared to before. If it does not feel better than I would talk with your tuner to see how this can be resolved.

Cheers,
Crawford Performance / I-Speed USA

The timing at said boost levels plays a big part in all of this doesn't it???

The timing at said boost levels plays a big part in all of this doesn't it???

It sure can... But once again 19-16 is a large drop...

Well mine was only boosting 19.5 psi when the target was 22. It was freaking 100 degrees out with 90%+ humidity. The last 3 days have been in the lower 80's and around 40-60% humidity and I am now hitting full boost. I think the heat the MAF is seeing is limiting mine.....I have a shorty intake.

Well mine was only boosting 19.5 psi when the target was 22. It was freaking 100 degrees out with 90%+ humidity. The last 3 days have been in the lower 80's and around 40-60% humidity and I am now hitting full boost. I think the heat the MAF is seeing is limiting mine.....I have a shorty intake.

There is a compensation for intake temp, that will pull out boost. Since you have a shorty intake we have seen intake temps as high as 70 degrees Celsius or 160 degrees Fahrenheit. We definitely pull out boost when temps get that hot. So my guess is that is what is happening.

That is a much safer way to be tuned otherwise you could have detonations and pop the engine.

Cheers,
Crawford Performance / I-Speed USA

Yeah. I am thinking of building a sheet metal box to close in the shorty and the MAF and Ceramic coating it. I think that should lower the temps a good bit.

There is a compensation for intake temp, that will pull out boost. Since you have a shorty intake we have seen intake temps as high as 70 degrees Celsius or 160 degrees Fahrenheit. We definitely pull out boost when temps get that hot. So my guess is that is what is happening.

That is a much safer way to be tuned otherwise you could have detonations and pop the engine.

Cheers,
Crawford Performance / I-Speed USA

I think this ^^^ and the throttle cable thing is what's happening with Coolrex.

I also pull wastegate duty with high intake air temps. I've seen 195 on intake air temps while sitting in traffic lately :eek:

Once the car is moving and everything cools off, the boost comes back ;)

SS

I think this ^^^ and the throttle cable thing is what's happening with Coolrex.

I also pull wastegate duty with high intake air temps. I've seen 195 on intake air temps while sitting in traffic lately :eek:

Once the car is moving and everything cools off, the boost comes back ;)

SS


Well yeah Scott but that is just it.....I am in NO traffic at all. This is purely while driving. I have noticed in the mornings it's just fine. In the middle of the day forget it. Lately its been a little cool in the mornings.

What brand of air intake do you have on the car? Also, do you know what AIT the car is running at ?

I have the Perrin short ram with a Green Filter on it. No idea what AIT the car is at. What exactly does AIT stand for...Air Intake Temps? I really really need to get the car datalogged which I am gonna make an honest attempt to do today.

Get rid of your SRI and get the stock airbox or a CAI

Get rid of your SRI and get the stock airbox or a CAI

I can't dude. I have the Perrin FMIC which prevents me doing so.

oh, I didn't know you had a FMIC, should be fine then

This thread is exactly what i was looking for. I just got an Ecutek tune last Saturday (nice 22degree day). VF-39, pinks, Spearco TMIC, Walbro, Denso IK-22 plugs. Boosting to 19.5psi or so.
Now I don't drive the car every day or even drive it very hard so I don't look at the boost gauge too much. last night (Rain, 15degrees), I happened onto the hwy and noticed 8,9,10psi max in all gears. Seems to me that the car went into limp/safe mode.
After tuning, I was told that the car shouldn't learn at all as the parameter that can be set to allow whatever percentage of adaptability by the ECU was set at 16.
I popped the hood to look for any loose hoses or whatever and couldn't see anything so I've done a reset (neg terminal and depress the pedal-will re-hook up the battery after work today) and will drive it tonite and tomorrow and see if it learns its way to the safe mode again. I suspect it will.

At that point, what should I ask my tuner to look at? WG duty cycles? Knock? He wasn't hearing any knock when he tuned it..

I have the Perrin short ram with a Green Filter on it. No idea what AIT the car is at. What exactly does AIT stand for...Air Intake Temps? I really really need to get the car datalogged which I am gonna make an honest attempt to do today.

Sorry about the delay, I forgot to look back at your thread.

AIT stands for Air intake temp, I was asking because of the desired boost and waste gate correction factors based of intake temperature.

the "only" real way to figure out hwy this is happening is to see your dealer when the problem is happening.

also, I do not suggest you reset the ECU when the boost goes down because if it does it is probably because it is trying to save the motor from a problem.

I would also be interested to see a data log from you if possible.

This thread is exactly what i was looking for. I just got an Ecutek tune last Saturday (nice 22degree day). VF-39, pinks, Spearco TMIC, Walbro, Denso IK-22 plugs. Boosting to 19.5psi or so.
Now I don't drive the car every day or even drive it very hard so I don't look at the boost gauge too much. last night (Rain, 15degrees), I happened onto the hwy and noticed 8,9,10psi max in all gears. Seems to me that the car went into limp/safe mode.
After tuning, I was told that the car shouldn't learn at all as the parameter that can be set to allow whatever percentage of adaptability by the ECU was set at 16.
I popped the hood to look for any loose hoses or whatever and couldn't see anything so I've done a reset (neg terminal and depress the pedal-will re-hook up the battery after work today) and will drive it tonite and tomorrow and see if it learns its way to the safe mode again. I suspect it will.

At that point, what should I ask my tuner to look at? WG duty cycles? Knock? He wasn't hearing any knock when he tuned it..

well, your tuner should know what to look for, WG duty cycle against coolant temp, air intake temp,...

when your tuner said the ECu would not learn he probably meant that it would not learn any higher numbers BUT the ECU will learn to reduce the ignition timing and it is still ready to cut boost if any problems occur.

as I said in th epost before DO NOT reset your ECU, that can only damage the motor some more IF there is a problem.

Hey Ben.

(You're due for another visit to Toronto-It's been two years since we had lunch at Quiznos across from Four Star Motorsports-Did you buy another radar detector yet? ;) )

Well, I took the car back to Frank at Four Star and he knew exactly what the issue was and it took him all of about 13secs to fix it. Not sure exactly what he did. I know he did two things-one of which was to lower max boost by 2psi.
But it was still boosting to 20psi after that. This time it didn't go into safe/limp mode until 3 days later. Gonna have to go back and get him to look at it again. I'll be going back next Friday. I'll try to remember exactly what Frank does this time. Hopefully, this will be the end of it..