Originally Posted by amalgrover
wouldn't it be safe to assume that the "average at best" brakes are probably okay for the average person. my bone stock 1997 legacy L has ZERO issues activating its anti-lock brakes, my stock wrx brakes had ZERO issues activating the anti-lock brakes on the RE92's or even much better tire options for that matter, and my stock wrx had ZERO issues overcoming the traction abilities of my RE92 tires. i mean, the only time i ever saw any real issues with fade on my stock wrx brakes was on an 11 mile long VERY spirited canyon run. for the next run of this same canyon, all i changed was the fluid to a higher boiling point fluid and the pads to ones with better heat ranges, and pretty much all fade went away. i would say that a good majority of subaru drivers have probably never even felt brake fade at all on their stock brakes because they never drive them hard enough to even get to this, and i think that is the point. for the avg subaru drivers on the roads, the stock brakes do just fine, and upgrading the pads and fluid would probably take care of alot of the others.
This forum is not about average cars or drivers. Average drivers are likely only concerned with 'one panic stop'.
The average car on here though is a WRX which is fast and has good handling and aside from the 06/07 has poor brakes and comes from the factory with weak brake pads. The 06/07 has OK brakes but still has weak brake pads. The front rotor is too small.
Subaru agree's - in 2009 they increased the mass of the rotor.
Many owners on here further increase the acceleration and handling of their WRX (ability to alter the velocity vector) yet ignore the one velocity vector that is most likely to injure them.
Ability to lock up the wheel/engage ABS is irrelevant to braking performance.
1 - You cannot steer the vehicle if the wheels are locked
2 - If the wheels are locked than the rotor is not moving in relation to the brake pad. This has no bearing on brake performance as static friction always exceeds dynamic friction.
The brakes at a minimum need to be able to slow the car at the tires limit while allowing the driver to control the vehicle. Never mind performance driving of any kind - Subaru brakes are marginal at best. Mushy compliant pedal, overboosted system, the braeks feel like they coem from a minivan or something.
Drive a Miata w/ Hawk HPS- drive a WRX w/ HPS - I did. Night and day.
Installing performance pads and high temp fluid IS an upgrade btw.
I had a 97 Outback. It's brakes were terrible. It would only lock up the wheel with pretty excessive pedal pressure if at all. Foot to the floor and keep pushing. It had beat AS tires on it. That is no way to control a car and I could not let me wife drive it.
Installed some good friction semi-metallic pads and fluid flushed and it was great. Lasted a good long time as well. It was the PERFECT upgrade for that car.