My pzev loaner seemed to take a good ten miles just to get all warmed up. I think I don't like pzev, glad mine was an early '12. Sucks we'll have that to deal with from now on. It seems like the oil companies are really behind the epa, as epa and fed regulations have taken away a good bit of efficiency and simplicity. I mean, car companies are building hybrids that dont really do any better than early 90's econocars, and arent nearly as fun to drive imo.