That's why I always walk into a dealership with a pre-approved bank check. I usually have a reasonable number in my head when I'm looking. I research trade in value vs retail value. For instance I just bought an 08 Subaru legacy limited. They wanted 14.5k, the retail was right around 17k, I offered 13.9k OTD price they kind of haggled a little bit. Once the manager found out I was sitting on a blank check, the deal was struck I got it for my price. It's really a buyers market if you can support your talk.