12-14 works fine for me. We need some place with a big empty parking lot where we won't get harrassed for hanging out there. But everywhere with big lots that I can think of is gonna be loaded with xmas shoppers. If all else fails and my roommates are cool with it (which I'm sure they will be), then I'll volunteer my place. But it isn't exactly centrally located, I'm up Geiger Grade towards VC. And I'm on top of a big hill off of a dirt (which will either be mud or ice by then) road, if any cares about getting dirty.
Khail