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Old 05-19-2008, 04:01 AM   #1
blukestrel
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Default R12 (Freon) in an 02?

So I took my car to Big O to get the non-working AC checked out- they claim they have Subaru factory trained technicians, dontcha know. They had it back to me quickly, and the AC works great, but they filled it with R12, nor R134a. Is that going to cause problems like killing my condensor, or did it just make it pricier?
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Old 05-19-2008, 06:24 AM   #2
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Are you sure they actually put R12 in it? Most places can't even get R12 any more as it's scarce and very expensive.
Also the fittings are different so you can't just hook up an R12 container to an R134 system, and they require different oil.
Whoever you spoke to probably doesn't know what they're talking about.
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Old 05-19-2008, 06:29 AM   #3
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thought R12 is considered illegal nowadays? something to do with pollution though IIRC i read somewhere that the pollution crap got nullified...nevertheless shops don't use R12 anymore unless for cars before 1996 IIRC, all modern cars are R134
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:26 AM   #4
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Their is no way they filled it with R12. I work at UPS as a diesel truck mechanic. In fact, we retrofitted some trucks to use R134a years ago because of R12 hasn't been made since 1994 and is hard to get. What is left is ubber expensive.
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Old 05-19-2008, 09:38 AM   #5
blukestrel
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weird- the invoice printout even lists 16.00 oz of r12 freon and the guy said "freon" when he wrote me up, which I figured was just a shorthand way of saying 134a. It cost $3.85 per oz!

Although I thought it wasn't used anymore, in my rural county of CA they don't even require smog after sale, so I don't know.
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:02 PM   #6
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No way they could put r12 in that... they stop using r12 around 1993.. so anything after that is all r134. the fittings on the ac lines are different from r12 and r134.. Ask them if they have a license to use the r12 because in any state they are required to have a license to sell it and install it..
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:12 PM   #7
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At the parts house I work at I checked on the price of R12, specifically a 30lb bottle, right at $1300. Where as a 30lb bottle of R134a is $100-$150.

Its not hard to get, you just need to have a license to get it. So there arent many places that carry it for that reason.
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:28 PM   #8
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Doesn't mean they didn't put a different freon in there and kill it. It's easy to do. Wrong freon and push the button and it's bye bye compressor.
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Old 05-21-2008, 10:24 AM   #9
blukestrel
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Here's another curveball- we're the only county in CA that doesn't require smog checks- I wonder if we're so backward-ass we can still use R12? The smog thing means a lot of people drive trucks with no smog- ah the smell and sound downtown!

So know one knows if that could damage my AC system if they did?
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Old 05-21-2008, 06:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blukestrel View Post
Here's another curveball- we're the only county in CA that doesn't require smog checks- I wonder if we're so backward-ass we can still use R12? The smog thing means a lot of people drive trucks with no smog- ah the smell and sound downtown!

So know one knows if that could damage my AC system if they did?
Most of the U.S. population lives where no smog checks are performed btw. The fittings are different for R12 vs 134A. You gotta be kidding you believe they put in a pound of R12 that cost $85.00. You say it's working, thats a good thing. The operating pressure of 134A is higher then R12.
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Old 05-22-2008, 01:33 AM   #11
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You can only get R12 from like Mexico these days. R12 under heat and pressure creates nerve gas...dangerous stuff. And as stated above, R12 fittings and R134a fittings are different.
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Old 05-22-2008, 03:22 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffk182 View Post
You can only get R12 from like Mexico these days. R12 under heat and pressure creates nerve gas...dangerous stuff. And as stated above, R12 fittings and R134a fittings are different.
you can get R12 anywhere if you have an EPA permit, or illegally from someone who has one

I just found 25lbs of it sitting in my garage tonite as a matter of fact.

PS, id be willing to bet they DIDNT put r12 in your car, but charged you for it
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Old 06-30-2008, 01:27 AM   #13
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update?
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:09 PM   #14
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  • R12 is still available. The demand has dropped enough that it is getting cheaper
  • The fittings for R12 and R134 on the car are different so if they wanted to put R12 in they would have to cobb up special plumbing
  • 16 ounces of R134 should have cost about $7
  • You paid $61.60
You can draw your own conclusions
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:16 PM   #15
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If you want to negotiate to get some money back go in and tell them they put R12 in your system which was designed for R134 and the oil is not compatable between the two. You want them to remove it and fill it with the correct refrigerant (costly to do nowadays with the required recovery systems). If they do it turn them in to the EPA for venting it to the atmosphere.
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Old 06-30-2008, 05:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-l View Post
If you want to negotiate to get some money back go in and tell them they put R12 in your system which was designed for R134 and the oil is not compatable between the two. You want them to remove it and fill it with the correct refrigerant (costly to do nowadays with the required recovery systems). If they do it turn them in to the EPA for venting it to the atmosphere.
If you turn someone in for venting coolant to atmosphere to the EPA there is a $10,000.00 reward.
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:05 PM   #17
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the stupid thing is... look on the label for most "compressed air" cans.... notice how it says "134"
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:03 PM   #18
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where do you put the hose for r134? i tried putting it on fitting or whatever on the right of the intake manifold but it doesn't fit. help
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p01ntb1ank View Post
where do you put the hose for r134? i tried putting it on fitting or whatever on the right of the intake manifold but it doesn't fit. help
you have aLOW side fitting and the passenger rear of the engine bay, and the high side fitting in front of the intake manifold, drivers side. They are 2 different sizes so, your hose will only fit on one side only.

Just an FYi, when servicing A/C on your own, be careful not to overfill the system, as little as .2 ounces over full can blow your compressor.
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Old 07-02-2008, 04:15 PM   #20
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I would stay far away from anyone who is trying to use r12 in a r134a system. Big O is a chain store that is associated with Tire Kingdom if I recall and they do not have factory trained techs unless they hired a previous subie technician. If he wanted to use r12, I would doubt he was factory trained.
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Old 07-02-2008, 04:48 PM   #21
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They prob. did not put R12 in, but if they did it won't hurt anything. the PAG oil that is used in the subaru system is compatible with R12, R134a is not good in a R12 system unless the mineral oil used in R12 systems is flushed out and replaced with PAG oil.
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