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Old 11-21-2008, 10:41 AM   #1
Full-Race Geoff
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Default Twinscroll Borgwarner vs Twinscroll GT35R

This test is a little OT becuase it was done on an evo, but we will be performing the identical test on an STI in the next 2-3 weeks.

The idea behind this test was to prove if a larger (and much less expensive) non-BB turbo can outperform a smaller BB unit. After having extraordinary results with the new BorgWarner/Airwerks S300SX turbochargers, we found as good or better performance with the non BB BW turbos than from duall ball bearing Garrett GT turbos. Sean Ivey at Iveytune in NJ was very interested to find out so he graciously lent us his dyno facility and tuning prowess.

Long story short, we have a customer who purchased our T4 Twinscroll GT35R kit for his almost entirely stock daily driver evo9.

pic of his car

The only other mods on the car are cams/springs/retainers clutch and fuel mgt. The owner daily drives it on 93octane pumpgas straight, and occasionally puts c16 race gas in it to turn the boost up and make 540+whp. While he loved the powerband and performance of the car, the twinscroll garrett 3582R was not satisfying him 100%. his complaints were:

-the twinscroll gt35R spooled very fast, but at WOT in 5th gear and low rpms it would occasionally surge (and that is WITH the tial ported shroud housing)

-the powerband was great, but he wanted even quicker response and more midrange with more high boost potential for when he builds the motor next year. His cosworth M3 cams are lacking a little midrange, so anything we could do to get the lowend-midrange back was welcomed

-the extremely narrow gt35R center section sunken into a huge twinscroll housing makes getting to the water and oil lines very difficult as well as tightening the CHRA backing plate bolts can be tough.

-the low production qty twinscroll turbine housing casting is not as good quality as the other garrett gt castings and is a pain to get wrenches on

enter the BorgWarner/Airwerks S300SX 83-75 (basically their version of a twinscroll t4 35R with slightly larger turbine wheel and higher flowing compressor) This turbo has a 7 blade 60mm inducer that moves 68-69 lb/min (good to 45+ psi boost). The exducer is 83mm with the extended tip compressor design. (look at the comp maps to compare and you can see how well the extended tip works to deliver solid airflow at high boost levels) It uses a large 75mm 10 blade inconel turbine wheel (the 35R is only 68mm) in a 1.00 a/r housing modified to 3" vband. This turbo is NON-bb and non-watercooled only!

the results:

the first dyno compares this stock 2.0L mitsubishi evo 9 on 93octane pump gas at 26psi boost. The S300SX 83-75 with 1.00 a/r TH (red line) vs the garrett gt3582R 1.06 a/r twinscroll t4 (blue line).



Its pretty amazing to see that despite having a 7mm larger turbine wheel and non-ball bearing CHRA, the bw spoolup almost mimics the garrett 35R. The bw even has a slight bump in midrange tq and hp.

the 2nd dynograph shows the above car with race gas at 30psi (red line) vs the above plot of pump gas at 26psi (blue line)



The owner noted that on the street the BW feels noticeably better in and out of boost particulary the transients like between gearshifts. also now there is zero surge. it has better fitment, and is easier to work on than the ball bearing garrett center section. and best of all it sounds muuch cooler

These are non ball bearing turbos, but the development that goes into them is incredible. They have journal bearings designed to hold their speed at particular levels and offer ball bearing control and friction levels but with journal bearing durability and ease of repair. very very impressive.

As soon as this was done, we unstrapped the 35R 2.0L evo9 and sean got started tuning a customer's car. this one has a Buschur engine and our Twinscroll 4088R turbokit. Overlaying this graph on top of our 2.0L twinscroll BW testing really expemplified how well the increased displacement from 2.0 to 2.3 affects the powerband. this 3rd dyno shows the 2.3L Garrett GT40R turbo at 26psi on 93octane (GREEN LINE) vs the S300SX 83-75 with 1.00 a/r TH (red line) vs the garrett gt3582R 1.06 a/r twinscroll t4 (blue line).





the 4th dynoplot shows this same 2.3L mitsubishi evo8 with the garrett GT4088R at 26 psi on pump gas and 40psi on race gas. it made 694whp and 559tq but the injectors were running out of out fuel (only 1000cc inj) and the motor out of cam (only buschur 272s) so the run was aborted before we could make over 700. that will have to wait until next week. the car is another psycho fast street car with AC. Sean took it out todays cold weather and in 2nd gear it spun all 4 wheels instantly he had to get out of the throttle




Sean will swap in some 1200cc injectors, some big tomei cams + cam gears and then retune, but after that i am most excited to install the borgwarner 91-79 turbo (their version of a 40R).

last but not least here are a few pics of the turbos and the compressor maps overlayed for comparison sake




turbos from L to R -- TSGT40R, GT37R, BW S300SX 83-75, TS35R, BW S200SX 75-70, TS3076R











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Old 11-21-2008, 11:33 AM   #2
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Any post by geoff is always fun to read!!!
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Old 11-21-2008, 11:36 AM   #3
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holly cow! that's some serious numbers.

do you need to allow for cool down time without the water lines?
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:01 PM   #4
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thanks guys, glad you liked the post.

One thing that is VERY important on EVERY turbo (bb, non bb, watercooled or not) is to NOT do hot shutdowns. Always let your car idle for a minimum of 30-45 seconds after boosting hard.

shutting the engine off allows heat that is in the turbine wheel to travel up the shaft and into the bearing assembly. I will happily take some pics when i get back to AZ (after this round of east coast testing) to show you why this is bad for the turbo

otherwise, i have seen no other benefit to watercooling the turbo
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Old 11-22-2008, 03:08 AM   #5
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geoff-after i get my tial rotated setup tested and finished, I want to move up to a bigger twinscroll turbo setup and have been eyeing these borgwarners for about 6 months now. Are there any other good suppliers other than bullseye? Where can the turbo that you used in this test be found?

Thanks again
Kelly
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Old 11-22-2008, 04:07 AM   #6
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how does

twin scroll gt35 kit
full exhaust
fuel system
cams
springs
retainers
clutch

equal this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
almost entirely stock daily driver evo9.
almost entirely stock is sure getting stretched these days....

mutha fkca didnt change the cup holder....he's almost entirely stock
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Old 11-22-2008, 04:10 AM   #7
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and wow the turbos being compared....the gt35 vs the borg made an identical plot....but the bw is superior in everyway.....im lost.....from what i've seen the borgs are more expensive...i guess if you're trying to put together the most expensive build ever you could get a full race header and bw turbo......$3k for a fkin header....OMG.....lets see i can get a $3k header and make 30whp....or a complete gt35r kit for $3k and make +300whp....

and wow do those afr's suck ballz.......13:1,11:1,12:1,10:1, 12:1.....wtf?

and what kinda marketing ploy is this? did you guys just get in a couple truckloads of BW turbos?

nasioc

club rsx
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?p=21697234

evom
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=382716

Last edited by Phatron; 11-22-2008 at 04:25 AM.
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Old 11-22-2008, 09:42 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
and wow the turbos being compared....the gt35 vs the borg made an identical plot....but the bw is superior in everyway.....im lost.....from what i've seen the borgs are more expensive...i guess if you're trying to put together the most expensive build ever you could get a full race header and bw turbo......$3k for a fkin header....OMG.....lets see i can get a $3k header and make 30whp....or a complete gt35r kit for $3k and make +300whp....

and wow do those afr's suck ballz.......13:1,11:1,12:1,10:1, 12:1.....wtf?

and what kinda marketing ploy is this? did you guys just get in a couple truckloads of BW turbos?

nasioc

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http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?p=21697234

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http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=382716
quote for posterity

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Old 11-22-2008, 12:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
and wow the turbos being compared....the gt35 vs the borg made an identical plot....but the bw is superior in everyway.....im lost.....from what i've seen the borgs are more expensive...i guess if you're trying to put together the most expensive build ever you could get a full race header and bw turbo......$3k for a fkin header....OMG.....lets see i can get a $3k header and make 30whp....or a complete gt35r kit for $3k and make +300whp....

and wow do those afr's suck ballz.......13:1,11:1,12:1,10:1, 12:1.....wtf?

and what kinda marketing ploy is this? did you guys just get in a couple truckloads of BW turbos?

nasioc

club rsx
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?p=21697234

evom
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=382716
Quoted for the ignorance. Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.
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Old 11-22-2008, 04:39 AM   #10
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and what exactly is overlaying a 62 lb/min turbo's comp map over a 72 lb/min comp map supposed to tell us?

why not just overlay this over the gt35 if you wanna make it look bad/small/whatever you're trying to show

any turbo bw makes i pretty much gaurantee garrett makes a turbo with almost exactly the same comp map. BW cant make magic air pumps....

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Old 11-22-2008, 11:15 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
BW cant make magic air pumps....
Ron, that makes you sound ignorant, and i know you are FAR from that. Everybody (garrett included) knows that even GT technology is getting dated now. BW can, and has, designed a better turbocharger. And some of this stuff is fairly new, so every tuner out there isn't making sexy time with BW turbo's yet.

In due time, garrett will main stream and dumb down their tr30r stuff and expand on that and it'll be garrett all over agin.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron
from what i've seen the borgs are more expensive
Really? Where?
atp 35r turbocharger pricing - This is priced cheaply as it's the price for a single scroll t3 turbine housing.
Full-Race gt35r Pricing

Full-Race 300sx 83-75 pricing

In fact, here, there is only ONE turbocharger over 1400 bucks, and it supports over 1000whp.

Don't discount the bw's so quickly. If we toss these turbos to the way side, we will be missing out on some great stuff for our community. Look at the DSM guys. Part of the reason they're going a zillion miles an hour and a half a second is because they've literally TRIED EVERYTHING, so they know what does and doesn't work. I mean, look at the Collection of holset turbo guys there are on here. I can only think of 2 off the top of my head. One (REWT) used an hx40 on his 2.0 with success. But beyond him and dukeduster, not many have even tried these turbos. So lets keep an open mind about this stuff. Trial and error guys. We can't afford to do it oursleves most of the time, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't let somebody do it for us

And Phatron: I know you want proof (you always do ) So just kinda sit back and wait for the proof. Sometimes you have to do that when you're not in a position to be able to go get it yourself.

Patience grasshoppa!!

Sorry... /rant
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Old 11-22-2008, 10:36 AM   #12
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Marketing Ploy? maybe. and you are right PHATRON 3k for a header is super bucks. I will agree with one thing though, i have delt with BW turbos and i personaly like them but at the same time i like garrett turbos just as much. For somebody new to turbos I wouldnt recomend the BW turbos because they have such a range of back housing witch make it a pain in the butt if you dont know anything about turbos and back pressure. Most the people i see throw on a BW turbo and get crazy lag because they dont pay any attention to back pressure.
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Old 11-22-2008, 02:02 PM   #13
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well....i guess thats how ignorance is defined right? i said "from what i've seen" about the cost.....it was for one of the bw200's...it was several hundres (~$400) more than the comparable garrett unit.

the rest of that post is fact
$3k for their header
the afrs were all over the place
they posted the same thing in several different car forums....thats marketing.
the gt4094 has a comp map that is way more comparable to the BW
And all those parts dont equal "almost entirely stock"

while it is impressive to show a non-bb 72 lb/min turbo spooling the same as a 62 lb/min turbo its still a weird comparision to post on a subie forum.....since it in no way reflects what the comparos gonna look like on an EJ motor....

while i agree that i dont always say things or convey my thoughts in the nicest way.....99% of my above 3 posts are pure fact.

what can you argue? That BW CAN make magic air pumps? Have you seen multiple results on a ej motor to prove otherwise? The results i saw show 10-15 whp gains with a BW.....to me it wasnt very cost effective....to take out a $1400 turbo and put in a $1800 turbo for 15 whp.....i guess to some it may be.

and yes, maybe i am the one forming my opinion too early......but there have been a lot of hyped up turbos over the years......and it should be pretty obvious by now that im skeptical and dont believe chit until i see a log

Last edited by Phatron; 11-22-2008 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 11-22-2008, 03:50 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
well....i guess thats how ignorance is defined right? i said "from what i've seen" about the cost.....it was for one of the bw200's...it was several hundres (~$400) more than the comparable garrett unit.

Well, either it was a BEP borg turbo or maybe it was old pricing. Or maybe you got your prices cris crossed?
BW 30r equivilant (s200)

Garrett gt30r
The 30r is about $176 more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron
while it is impressive to show a non-bb 72 lb/min turbo spooling the same as a 62 lb/min turbo its still a weird comparision to post on a subie forum.....since it in no way reflects what the comparos gonna look like on an EJ motor....
True, but compressor and turbine efficiency are NOT going to change by putting it on an ej engine. x flow at y p/r no matter if its on an ej, a 4g63, a 2jzgte, an ls7 or a olds 455. Certain turbos are better matched to certain engines for sure, but thats why manufacturers make several different flavors and give you hotside options etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron
what can you argue? That BW CAN make magic air pumps? Have you seen multiple results on a ej motor to prove otherwise? The results i saw show 10-15 whp gains with a BW.....to me it wasnt very cost effective....to take out a $1400 turbo and put in a $1800 turbo for 15 whp.....i guess to some it may be.
I didn't say they made magic air pumps, you did . I said they made a more efficient turbo charger. No i haven't seen multiple ej results, but like i said, and tuners and enthusiasts haven't exactly jumped all over these turbos as of yet, but more and more are popping up. Like i said, patience.

And as far as price goes, It's VERY cost effective if you just start with the less expensive borg turbo, and i don't know where you're doing your shopping, but i already gave you some price comparo's that shoot that argument down (twice now...).
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Old 11-23-2008, 10:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
while it is impressive to show a non-bb 72 lb/min turbo spooling the same as a 62 lb/min turbo its still a weird comparision to post on a subie forum.....since it in no way reflects what the comparos gonna look like on an EJ motor....
well you should just search Fobia's thread, in which a stock EJ257 spooled a gt4088R and then a BW S374 almost identicaly.
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Old 11-24-2008, 08:48 PM   #16
Full-Race Geoff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dipp View Post
well you should just search Fobia's thread, in which a stock EJ257 spooled a gt4088R and then a BW S374 almost identicaly.
can you link to that thread? very interesting to hear the results, that seems almost too good to be true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmurphy View Post
I want to move up to a bigger twinscroll turbo setup and have been eyeing these borgwarners for about 6 months now. Are there any other good suppliers other than bullseye?
These are brand new turbocharger releases by BorgWarner Airwerks for 2009. the bullseye turbos are NOT the same as borgwarner airwerks turbos. bullseye is a small turbo company in michigan that makes their own hybrid concoctions out of borgwarner parts... BorgWarner is a massive turbocharger mfg plant in asheville, NC that mfgs their own units, start to finish, in-house. based on past experience, I strongly recommend using straight up off-the-shelf turbochargers rather than a "morphed" hybrid as bwts calls them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
99% of my above 3 posts are pure fact.
i appreciate your enthusiasm, but your posts are not factual... the majority of your posts indicate you do not fully understand turbocharging fundamentals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
and what exactly is overlaying a 62 lb/min turbo's comp map over a 72 lb/min comp map supposed to tell us? why not just overlay this over the gt35 if you wanna make it look bad/small/whatever you're trying to show any turbo bw makes i pretty much gaurantee garrett makes a turbo with almost exactly the same comp map. BW cant make magic air pumps....
The compressor maps between garrett and borgwarner are DRASTICALLY different. Garretts are 6 blade compressors with a square tip exducer, while Borgwarners are 7 blade compressors with an "extended" (angled) tip exducer. this results in massive compressor map differences and efficiency island shape. the reason i overlayed the comp maps is to show how high you can boost a BW, while the garrett is out of breath. do you understand how to read compressor maps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
a gt35 and one of these bw turbos operate at peak efficiencies at very different PR's.
actually the efficiency islands are not all that different... hence the reason the powerbands were remarkably similar at the same boost level. are you looking at the same compmaps as me???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
mutha fkca didnt change the cup holder....he's almost entirely stock
customers of ours generally refer to the engine when we are talking about "stock"... in my mind stock crank, stock rods, stock pistons, stock valves, stock head, stock block, stock intake manifold, stock bearings, stock oil pump, stock oil pan, stock crank pulley, stock cam gears, stock throttlebody, etc means its almost entirely stock with a turbokit, cams and a fuel system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
from what i've seen the borgs are more expensive...what kinda marketing ploy is this? did you guys just get in a couple truckloads of BW turbos?

nasioc, club rsx, evom
i dont know what you've seen, but the borgwarners are considerably less espensive than an equivalent Garrett turbocharger. I do not think you have seen this turbocharger before as we are one of the first to test these, let alone sell them. I posted this to help show forum members something new. We will happily sell a Garrett Ball bearing GT turbo just as happily as we will sell a borgwarner airwerks turbo

the reason its on 3 forums is that test was performed on an evo so i posted it on evoM. i put it on CRSX because i am one of the people that made clubRSX's turbo forum what it is today... (i used to be the moderator on there and now i post up any cool tests i do every time i do them whether its on an RB26 a supra or a honda). why you are pulling up my posts and trying to use them to discredit me is something i will not try to understand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctracer911 View Post
i have delt with BW turbos and i personaly like them but at the same time i like garrett turbos just as much. For somebody new to turbos I wouldnt recomend the BW turbos because they have such a range of back housing witch make it a pain in the butt if you dont know anything about turbos and back pressure. Most the people i see throw on a BW turbo and get crazy lag because they dont pay any attention to back pressure.
i disagree.. i think the BW turbos are easier because they dont require watercooling and exotic fittings (a gt inlet is 7/16" inverted flare with an .035 restrictor and coolant fittings are M14, good luck finding that at your local hardware store) also with the BW turbos there are only (2) a/r T4 housings to choose from (garrett often has 3 or 4). Of course there is still nothing wrong with the garrett units, they are excellent, consistent units that deliver fantastic performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
the gt4094 has a comp map that is way more comparable to the BW
actually that is completely false. the GT4094 is a cut down 42R compressor wheel stuffed into a too-small 4088R comp hsg. it is a terribly inefficient turbo that does not work all that well... It has literally nothing in common with the BW 83mm exducer compwheel in this thread, except for the fact they are both made out of aluminum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
a huge freaking comp map that goes up to PR's of 5.0 is pretty......how many people in the world are gonna run 50psi on an EJ motor?
theres nothing wrong with high boost levels if the engine is built to take it, and many of our customers do in fact run over 35psi, or they plan to in the future once they build their engine. The fact that the BW can efficiently run high boost levels is the point of this overlay. good luck taking a 35R past 33-35psi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
settle down guys....jeez. dont get your panties in a bunch....
heed your own advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by cubuff View Post
If you look, fullrace sells garrett as well. They also seem to really like these turbo's. I have talked to Jeff personally and he has nothing but good things to say about the 4088r. If I recall correctly it is one of his favorite turbo options?
that is correct, i have a lot of experience with the 4088R and LOVE it. If you search you will probably find i am one of the strongest supporters of this turbocharger!!!

Last edited by Full-Race Geoff; 11-24-2008 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 11-24-2008, 09:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
i appreciate your enthusiasm, but your posts are not factual... the majority of your posts indicate you do not fully understand turbocharging fundamentals
so those afr's arent all over the place?
your manifold isnt comparatively expensive?
these turbos wont be at different pr's on a subie motor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
The compressor maps between garrett and borgwarner are DRASTICALLY different. Garretts are 6 blade compressors with a square tip exducer, while Borgwarners are 7 blade compressors with an "extended" (angled) tip exducer. this results in massive compressor map differences and efficiency island shape. do you understand how to read compressor maps?? the reason i overlayed the comp maps is to show how high you can boost a BW, while the garrett is out of breath.
thats what i said....they are drastically different....so what not compare it to a map thats more like it, like the 4094.

the comp map of the 4094 (high pr's and higher flow rating) is way more comparable to the BW one you posted than a gt35 comp map.


And just because you can show two turbos spooling the same in a single gear on the dyno doesnt show how they will act in lower gears and off boost.

I can plot up my fp green outspooling 20g's for days in 4th gear pulls....but it loses to the 20g quite handily in 1st-3rd pulls.....

Last edited by Phatron; 11-24-2008 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 11-25-2008, 09:29 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
so
thats what i said....they are drastically different....so what not compare it to a map thats more like it, like the 4094.

the comp map of the 4094 (high pr's and higher flow rating) is way more comparable to the BW one you posted than a gt35 comp map.

He compared the compressor maps because they're the maps of the two turbos in the thread. he didn't use a 4094 map because he didn't use the turbo in the comparison. 2 very different turbos that acted very similar on the dyno. that was the point.
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Old 11-25-2008, 04:52 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
And just because you can show two turbos spooling the same in a single gear on the dyno doesnt show how they will act in lower gears and off boost.

I can plot up my fp green outspooling 20g's for days in 4th gear pulls....but it loses to the 20g quite handily in 1st-3rd pulls.....
I can't believe I gave you e-ammunition!

Relax Ron, you come across as someone who wants to slam everything FR says, like they slighted you or something. (I know that is not how you feel, but it seems that way)

I think you would love for the FR stuff to perform, just as much as I want it to.

Just ask meaningful questions, OK? I know you can do it.

FWIW so far FR has been one of the best at answering my questions and displaying that they do in fact have a fair bit of turbo knowledge. I don't think are the be-all-and-end-all of suby info, but they are getting there.

They still haven't really proven HUGE power and spool gains from there headers, apparently that takes a bit of time. (too much IMO) So far good evidence is on the table, and many of us want to see more.

I actually think Ron is the way he he is because he really wants a FR manifold, but just cannot swallow the $$s, but then he is stuck because nobody else makes one that is its equal. So he complains in hopes that FR will lower their price. If he didn't care about the ultimate in boost-threshold/power he wouldn't be posting here.

Remember, being the first requires lots of R&D, that costs money (at least in the USA). I am not ready to shell out $3000 for their manifold. But if it proves (still waiting on more evidence) to be the best combo of spool/power, then I will spend the money, as will a few others here.

FWIW Eric at FR as all over getting per gear logs, it is almost like I am the first person to ever do it. I think he thinks it will help prove their product. I hope he is right.
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Old 11-30-2008, 01:49 AM   #20
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\can you link to that thread? very interesting to hear the results, that seems almost too good to be true.

this is the link
http://mnsubaru.com/forums/showthrea...992#post557992

sorry 500 rpms differince in spool when I asked him. my bad
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Old 12-07-2008, 07:41 PM   #21
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[quote=Full-Race Geoff;24592345]



i disagree.. i think the BW turbos are easier because they dont require watercooling and exotic fittings (a gt inlet is 7/16" inverted flare with an .035 restrictor and coolant fittings are M14, good luck finding that at your local hardware store) also with the BW turbos there are only (2) a/r T4 housings to choose from (garrett often has 3 or 4). Of course there is still nothing wrong with the garrett units, they are excellent, consistent units that deliver fantastic performance.


[quote=Full-Race Geoff;24592345]

sry about that i think i got them confused with the Bullseye units witch i always thought were the same as BW. sry about that.
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Old 11-22-2008, 03:18 PM   #22
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lol, phatrons comments almost always hold water with me but i have seen multiple threads now on BW turbos where he is just going out of his way to try and discredit these turbos by any little tidbit he can find on the intraweb.

Phatron, if you really want to prove a point, buy one, test it, blow it, post it, flame it, move on.
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Old 11-22-2008, 03:33 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Foo_Blyat View Post
lol, phatrons comments almost always hold water with me but i have seen multiple threads now on BW turbos where he is just going out of his way to try and discredit these turbos by any little tidbit he can find on the intraweb.

Phatron, if you really want to prove a point, buy one, test it, blow it, post it, flame it, move on.
Oh ****, I have to quote this


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Old 11-22-2008, 03:52 PM   #24
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settle down guys....jeez.

i can show my green outspooling a 20g.....what does it prove though? it doesnt stop people from buying 20g's. every turbo has its place and its appeal to certain people.

and while a huge freaking comp map that goes up to PR's of 5.0 is pretty......how many people in the world are gonna run 50psi on an EJ motor?

dont get your panties in a bunch....

dont you wanna wait for the tests on an EJ motor with OUR VE's and PR's before you proclaim this as the greatest thing since widemouth beer cans?

im just saying the BW turbos are gonna fill slots somewhere in the order of things....not put garrett outta business

16g
18g
20g
3071 / dom1
green / sz49 / dom2 / dom3
3076 / gt52
sz55
hta green
red
gt35
gt40
etc
etc
etc

Last edited by Phatron; 11-22-2008 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 11-22-2008, 04:01 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post


settle down guys....jeez.

i can show my green outspooling a 20g.....what does it prove though? it doesnt stop people from buying 20g's. every turbo has its place and its appeal to certain people.

and while a huge freaking comp map that goes up to PR's of 5.0 is pretty......how many people in the world are gonna run 50psi on an EJ motor?

dont get your panties in a bunch....

dont you wanna wait for the tests on an EJ motor with OUR VE's and PR's before you proclaim this as the greatest thing since widemouth beer cans?

im just saying the BW turbos are gonna fill slots somewhere in the order of things....not put garrett outta business

16g
18g
20g
3071 / dom1
green / sz49 / dom2 / dom3
3076 / gt52
sz55
hta green
red
gt35
gt40
etc
etc
etc


Widemouth beer cans
How long have you guys had those?
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