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Old 12-11-2008, 11:52 PM   #1
design1stcode2nd
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Default Big 3 Bailout fails in Senate

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/11/b...in-the-senate/

Quote:
...Ayes: 52
Nays: 35

Cloture was not invoked. The bill fails.

Reid acknowledges that this won't be revisited until the new Senate convenes next year. Asks the President to consider using TARP money.

Senators continue to speak on the floor, but this essentially signifies the the end of the bailout debate for calendar year 2008. And now we wait to see what happens.
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:18 AM   #2
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:40 AM   #3
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Tragedy
Irony.
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:48 AM   #4
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You guys in this rumors forum are incredibly ignorant.

Do you really think American economy will be able to handle one million job losses simultaneously?

Ford and GM have some good products on the horizon. I can't say the same from Chrysler.
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Old 12-12-2008, 02:07 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by atho6 View Post
You guys in this rumors forum are incredibly ignorant.

Do you really think American economy will be able to handle one million job losses simultaneously?

Ford and GM have some good products on the horizon. I can't say the same from Chrysler.
I live and work in Japan. The only effect this will have on me is the dollar will plummet, causing my yen to be worth a lot more when I go home and visit. My family back home are lawyers who specialize in Chapter 7, 11, and 13 bankruptcies. Business has picked up and they prosper. The bad economy isn't negative news for everybody. Speaking of ignorance....
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Old 12-12-2008, 07:19 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Tragedy View Post
I live and work in Japan. The only effect this will have on me is the dollar will plummet, causing my yen to be worth a lot more when I go home and visit. My family back home are lawyers who specialize in Chapter 7, 11, and 13 bankruptcies. Business has picked up and they prosper. The bad economy isn't negative news for everybody. Speaking of ignorance....
The entire global economy feels it when the US's economy takes a dive.

I highly doubt that GM/Ford/Chrysler will go under. Maybe their US operations will dwindle down to the minimum amount of vehicles. The big loosers will be all the suppliers and automakers (designers, factory workers, dealerships) of the collateral vehicles.

It's going to be a rollercoaster for many families in the US.

Nick
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Old 12-12-2008, 10:48 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Tragedy View Post
I live and work in Japan. The only effect this will have on me is the dollar will plummet, causing my yen to be worth a lot more when I go home and visit. My family back home are lawyers who specialize in Chapter 7, 11, and 13 bankruptcies. Business has picked up and they prosper. The bad economy isn't negative news for everybody. Speaking of ignorance....
So you are the same Tragedy from Autoblog!
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Old 12-12-2008, 10:57 AM   #8
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I just watched the UAW press conference. That guy isn't endearing anyone to their cause, that's for sure. The heads of the Big 3 at least showed a little humility. Talk about a culture of entitlement...
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:09 PM   #9
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So you are the same Tragedy from Autoblog!
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:18 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Tragedy View Post
I live and work in Japan. The only effect this will have on me is the dollar will plummet, causing my yen to be worth a lot more when I go home and visit. My family back home are lawyers who specialize in Chapter 7, 11, and 13 bankruptcies. Business has picked up and they prosper. The bad economy isn't negative news for everybody. Speaking of ignorance....
A good line of thought. Though, 1M job losses will definitely be significant. We will bounce back, regardless of what happens, however union auto employees will likely have a very hard time finding new positions. Most are line workers, and if many auto line jobs are simply defunct, and much other domestic manufacturing has been outsourced, what's left for them?

I say this as a person who was primarily opposed to the bailout. It's a tough situation, whether it had been denied or approved.
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Old 12-12-2008, 02:56 AM   #11
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Do you really think American economy will be able to handle one million job losses simultaneously?
Considering it's already done so, yes.

You think the American economy has been able to handle domestic automakers paying forklift operators $102,000 when they should be making $24,000? Obviously not, and that's why it's all going down the tubes. UAW workers need to accept a 75% pay cut immediately instead of trying to steal from us hardworking taxpayers. The UAW offered to Congress: no pay cut at all until 2011? This is the planet that UAW has been living on. Hopefully this auto bailout business is bringing them out into the light for the world to see now.

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everyone should also keep in mind that ford will survive reguardless, so america will still have at least one automaker. there sitting on tons of cash and have said that they dont need a bailout but are just looking to get some extra money.
It's unfortunate that GM and Chrysler could bring down Ford also due to the union structures in place. Ford has mentioned that they deserve the same union concessions as GM And Chrysler even if they don't take the bailout money. But, since the UAW offered no pay cuts until 2011 that is a spit in the face of American taxpayers so I guess Ford doesn't have to worry about getting on board with their "concession" anyway!
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:04 AM   #12
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Considering it's already done so, yes.

You think the American economy has been able to handle domestic automakers paying forklift operators $102,000 when they should be making $24,000? Obviously not, and that's why it's all going down the tubes. UAW workers need to accept a 75% pay cut immediately instead of trying to steal from us hardworking taxpayers. The UAW offered to Congress: no pay cut at all until 2011? This is the planet that UAW has been living on. Hopefully this auto bailout business is bringing them out into the light for the world to see now.

75%......... really. Its also not stealing. They are loans. Also who are you to say what they SHOULD be making.
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:22 AM   #13
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75%......... really. Its also not stealing. They are loans.
They are loans which in no way would be repaid (except by Ford). No amount of money will save these companies.. they need to fix things first with the capital that they still have... prove they can make a profit, then they can have all the loans they want.

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Also who are you to say what they SHOULD be making.
If they want 'our' money, then 'we' have a say.
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Old 12-12-2008, 07:59 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by atho6 View Post
You guys in this rumors forum are incredibly ignorant.

Do you really think American economy will be able to handle one million job losses simultaneously?
Are you so ignorant that you really think one million jobs are going to be lost simultaneously?
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Old 12-14-2008, 09:09 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by atho6 View Post
You guys in this rumors forum are incredibly ignorant.

Do you really think American economy will be able to handle one million job losses simultaneously?

Ford and GM have some good products on the horizon. I can't say the same from Chrysler.
you must be some sort of genius
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Old 12-14-2008, 10:45 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by atho6 View Post
You guys in this rumors forum are incredibly ignorant.

Do you really think American economy will be able to handle one million job losses simultaneously?

Ford and GM have some good products on the horizon. I can't say the same from Chrysler.
Let's do a little math, shall we?

There are currently 305,879,489 people living in this country (according the US census bureau) Now obviously not all of them are of working age, and some are likely retired. Let's say just for ****s and giggles that only %10 of those people are currently working. That leaves us with 30,587,948 people working. Now, one million of those lose their jobs that would increase unemployment by %3. We are currently ~ %6 unemployment (depending on source) which would bring us to ~%9

For reference back in the early 80's unemployment was at ~ %10 and with the exception of hair bands and fashion I would say we made it through the 80's pretty well.
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:50 AM   #17
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right about now im seriously thinking of trading in my year old cobalt ss for a 09 rex
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:08 AM   #18
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right about now im seriously thinking of trading in my year old cobalt ss for a 09 rex

I'd HIGHLY recommend that.
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Old 12-12-2008, 02:19 AM   #19
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1,000,000 jobs won't be lost overnight. To think so is folly.

There will be a slow job loss related to the auto companies, but they will continue to operate and provide jobs. If they do fail, it will be a slow painful death. The lost jobs will be streached out over years, and most will be balanced by new jobs as the economy recovers, with or without American automakers.
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Old 12-12-2008, 02:42 AM   #20
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everyone should also keep in mind that ford will survive reguardless, so america will still have at least one automaker. there sitting on tons of cash and have said that they dont need a bailout but are just looking to get some extra money.

Chrysler and GM on the other hand are pretty much screwed
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:06 AM   #21
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Ugh. As much as they may or may not have deserved these loans, this still scares the **** out of me that it didn't pass.
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:15 AM   #22
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Ugh. As much as they may or may not have deserved these loans, this still scares the **** out of me that it didn't pass.
Take comfort in the idea that the failure of this bill proves we have at least a little democracy left in this country, though it appears to be quickly dwindling...
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:32 AM   #23
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Take comfort in the idea that the failure of this bill proves we have at least a little democracy left in this country, though it appears to be quickly dwindling...
A very good point.^^^



200 years ago 90ish % of the American work force was in some agricultural line of work and today that number is less then 1%. So are they all unemployed? Of course not, as an individual you retool, retrain, and get up off your butt and make something of yourself. This situation is much different I acknowledge but that isn't to say everyone of them is going to be out on the street. Some will make the most and others will sit until whatever money they have until it runs out. Personal choice and personal actions and the freedom & liberty to choose as such is why America still has hope. You just have to be ready for the circumstances from those choices made.
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:07 AM   #24
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personaly i believe GM need to file bankrupcy and get it over with, then either force the unions to renegotiate or just break the unions all together, something has to change, the 70-85hr they are getting is way more than they should get, something need to change, but on the upside gas is cheap, so if you dont have a job you can still drive around all day
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Old 12-12-2008, 07:59 AM   #25
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go bankrupt and get rid of the UAW for good
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