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Old 12-19-2008, 09:40 AM   #1
darknightohio
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Default Bush: GM, Chrysler to receive $17.4b federal loans

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United States President George W. Bush, in a press conference this morning, announced that the federal government will provide $17.4 billion in short-term, low interest loans to the General Motors and Chrysler in exchange for wage concessions at all levels - management, unions and suppliers - and an ultimatum that the companies must have thorough plans in place by March 31 or the loans will have to be repaid and the automakers will be forced into a controlled chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Bush said that the two automakers will not be forced into chapter 11 bankruptcy unless they are unable to turn around their companies by March 31. He said that allowing the automakers to fail would be an “unacceptably painful blow” for the country.

The loans, in the president’s word, are “similar to those offered by Congress last week,” except that they require “meaningful concessions” for all levels, including the unions. Bush said that worker compensation must be comparable to those paid by foreign automakers operating on United States soil, thus delivering a potentially crippling blow to the United Auto Workers.

Bush said that the $17.4 billion will come out of the $700 billion financial rescue package known as TARP passed by Congress for use on Wall Street earlier this year. The first $13.4 billion will be made available immediately and the remaining $4 billion will come from the remaining $350 billion in the TARP fund.

“[The automakers have] three months to put in place plans to structure viable companies - which we believe they can do,” President Bush said. He stressed his reluctancy to have to provide the loans, but said that they were necessary given the current financial turmoil.

President Bush issued the ultimatum that the federal loans must be repaid by March 31 if the automakers do not come up with a viable plan for going forward, “or the only option will be bankruptcy.”

“[The automakers must] show the world once again they can meet challenges with ingenuity,” Bush concluded.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/bush-gm-...ral-loans.html
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:41 AM   #2
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good for them
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Old 12-19-2008, 10:09 AM   #3
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Good.... now we wait till March 31st to see this outcome.
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:06 PM   #4
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Good.... now we wait till March 31st to see this outcome.
Of what year, because he didn't say. I'm just saying....March 31st, 2174?
-Joe
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Old 12-19-2008, 10:10 AM   #5
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This is crap. The companies have had 20 years to turn themselves around and did not do it, and now they have to have a viable plan in 3 months... Thats laughable.

I guess that depends on your definition of viable. Who judges its viability?

Just cut your losses and file for a controlled bankruptcy now
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Old 12-19-2008, 10:29 AM   #6
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Prediction:
-GM & Chrysler Exec's get a $1.4 million Christmas bonus
-Fly whole company to Bermuda for "morale building"
-Complains to congress on March 29th that the global economy will collapse if they don't get another 24 billion


You heard it here first
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Old 12-22-2008, 04:31 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by DHGurs View Post
Prediction:
-GM & Chrysler Exec's get a $1.4 million Christmas bonus
-Fly whole company to Bermuda for "morale building"
-Complains to congress on March 29th that the global economy will collapse if they don't get another 24 billion


You heard it here first
Yeah and when they all flew to Washington to talk about their troubles they each took their own jets...costing how much to fuel. I blame them for having to wait to get my G8.
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Old 12-19-2008, 10:41 AM   #8
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Just cut your losses and file for a controlled bankruptcy now


Oh yea, so are you read for Food Lines then?

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Old 12-19-2008, 12:15 PM   #9
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Oh yea, so are you read for Food Lines then?

$17.4b would be better spent on food.
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Old 12-19-2008, 01:05 PM   #10
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$17.4b would be better spent on food.
Something something teach a man to fish something something.

People don't want hand-outs. They want to keep their jobs and want to keep working. Giving out LOANS (not "Free money") to keep these companies going - especially at a time of severe economic distress - is the only answer.

Everyone is so short-sighted these days it's scary
... building cars has historically been a very profitable business.

Because GM and Chrysler's management have screwed things up for quite some time now does not negate that fact. If need be, replace each and every executive at these companies and start from there, but simply letting them go under is not the way to go. And bankruptcy is not the answer either because that would force every one of their suppliers (who are already hurting quite bad) to go under too, along with hundreds of thousands of jobs... domino effect.
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Old 12-19-2008, 01:30 PM   #11
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Let them enjoy it while it last, we'll see if they put it to good use on March 31st ! If not then they should !
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Old 12-19-2008, 02:17 PM   #12
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Something something teach a man to fish something something.

People don't want hand-outs. They want to keep their jobs and want to keep working. Giving out LOANS (not "Free money") to keep these companies going - especially at a time of severe economic distress - is the only answer.

Everyone is so short-sighted these days it's scary
... building cars has historically been a very profitable business.

Because GM and Chrysler's management have screwed things up for quite some time now does not negate that fact. If need be, replace each and every executive at these companies and start from there, but simply letting them go under is not the way to go. And bankruptcy is not the answer either because that would force every one of their suppliers (who are already hurting quite bad) to go under too, along with hundreds of thousands of jobs... domino effect.
I know your heart in is the right place here, but we have to be realistic. Currently GM and Chrysler do not sell enough cars to warrant having so many employees. They NEED to have some layoffs, that's inevitable. People need to face the facts that they will be losing their jobs soon. GM cannot and should not employ them just because its the right thing to do.

Allowing them to go into some kind of controlled bankruptcy does not equal bread lines for 2 million people. GM is too big to just vanish. What it needs is to trim the fat. Get rid of the dead weight. IF that means a lay off of 20% of the work force, then thats what it takes.

The loan is a token amount that literally is just throwing money away. It will do nothing in the long run unless the entire company changes vastly, from the dealer networks, to the manufacturing lines, etc. That is impossible in 3 months.

A company as top heavy as GM is, combined with the unions, is like telling a fat guy to run uphill with an anchor tied to his waist...

What happens after march 21st? They bring forth a plan to get them out of trouble, now what... do they get 50 billion more to enact the plan, then 100 billion more to rescue subcontractors, then 75 billion more to renovate factories...

It has to come to a head eventually, the airlines have all gone through a bankruptcy or two and they managed to come back leaner and more efficient. GM needs a good enema
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Old 12-19-2008, 10:34 AM   #13
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Old 12-19-2008, 11:28 AM   #14
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Why should their suppliers workers have their wages cut? That is bulldung. Bush, you are telling ME that because I own a business and supply parts, already as cheap as I can possibly go, you feel I need to cut my wages - and provide proof, to help them out. The parts I sell are marked up over 1000% by GM and Ford.

F.U.
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:11 PM   #15
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"must have thorough plans in place by March 31 or the loans will have to be repaid and the automakers will be forced into a controlled chapter 11 bankruptcy."

They're operating in the red, so they will not be able to pay back 17.4 billion in 3 months... Even foreign automakers are not posting these kinds of gains. Why not just save 17.4billion and set up that controlled ch. 11 now instead of stringing them out for a while until they file for it at the end of March?

And I really wish people would stop comparing our financial predicament to the great depression. It's really a low blow to people who had to live through the great depression in the working class. It's getting pretty safe to say that basically nobody on this forum is old enough to have been of working age during the 1930's so I don't really think many of us have a concept of just how bad it was for some people back then.
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:58 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by jhargis View Post
"must have thorough plans in place by March 31 or the loans will have to be repaid and the automakers will be forced into a controlled chapter 11 bankruptcy."

They're operating in the red, so they will not be able to pay back 17.4 billion in 3 months... Even foreign automakers are not posting these kinds of gains. Why not just save 17.4billion and set up that controlled ch. 11 now instead of stringing them out for a while until they file for it at the end of March?
It was my understanding that they must prove that they have a viable plan by March. If not, they have to repay the loans. So basically, here's a loan to get yourself on your feet. If you can't do it, pay it back (aka: go into bankruptcy).
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Old 12-19-2008, 03:49 PM   #17
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..........And I really wish people would stop comparing our financial predicament to the great depression. It's really a low blow to people who had to live through the great depression in the working class. It's getting pretty safe to say that basically nobody on this forum is old enough to have been of working age during the 1930's so I don't really think many of us have a concept of just how bad it was for some people back then.
I was actually talking to my grandfather the other day who who was in WW2 and lived through the great depression. He told me how when his mother passed away, his father left work for 2 days for the funeral and when he came back his job was gone. Then he went on to say how our current economical situation is going to be equal/worse than the great depression. During the Great Depression the PWA was formed and helped give out thousands of jobs and helped stimulate the economy. However, instead of our federal funding going towards public works projects it is going towards bailouts and loans for failing companies that are going to fail anyway.


We. are. screwed.
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Old 12-19-2008, 04:29 PM   #18
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the whole laying off xx,xxx employees to save xxx,xxx employees is what part of the proposal is when they mention that the UAW benefits and pay match those of their foreign counterparts. the thing i dont understand is, those in the UAW would rather risk the loss of a job than get a paycut across the board?

of course, those at the top of the companies should receive a paycut as well just to reflect that the effort to get these companies out of the red is mutual.
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Old 12-19-2008, 06:47 PM   #19
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the whole laying off xx,xxx employees to save xxx,xxx employees is what part of the proposal is when they mention that the UAW benefits and pay match those of their foreign counterparts. the thing i dont understand is, those in the UAW would rather risk the loss of a job than get a paycut across the board?

of course, those at the top of the companies should receive a paycut as well just to reflect that the effort to get these companies out of the red is mutual.
Its not the hourly rate that is bad. The legacy costs are what makes it look so bad. You cant just get rid of the pensions though. Do you know many ppl receiving a pension can't physically work anymore.
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Old 12-19-2008, 04:55 PM   #20
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I was actually talking to my grandfather the other day who who was in WW2 and lived through the great depression. He told me how when his mother passed away, his father left work for 2 days for the funeral and when he came back his job was gone. Then he went on to say how our current economical situation is going to be equal/worse than the great depression. During the Great Depression the PWA was formed and helped give out thousands of jobs and helped stimulate the economy. However, instead of our federal funding going towards public works projects it is going towards bailouts and loans for failing companies that are going to fail anyway.


We. are. screwed.
I hate to sound coarse, but your grandfather is completely wrong. There is no way this gets as worse as the Great Depression. 6 months ago the financial institutions were all clamoring if they did not get the money today, then we were all going to see financial ruin, and the heavens were going to rain down fire on us, and dogs and cats were going to sleeping together. Well, the money has been approved but they still have not received it, and low and behold, my bank still has its doors opened, my job has not laid off anybody, my wife still have steady employment. I still manage to go to grocery stores and find food and drink there. Gasoline still flows from the pumps, and I still get direct TV. I think the credit crunch is going to get worse, I think loans will be a bit tougher to get, but 1 out of 3 Americans without a job like it was in the Great Depression is NOT going to happen.

the sooner you stop listening to the news and TV and realize that the world is a very stable place and the sins of a few usually never see it into our breakfast table. The sun will come up tomorrow, and day by day this too shall pass. If you just ignore the hype, live within your means, and do what it takes to feed and clothe your family, then things have a way to work things out.
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Old 12-19-2008, 05:17 PM   #21
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I hate to sound coarse, but your grandfather is completely wrong. There is no way this gets as worse as the Great Depression. 6 months ago the financial institutions were all clamoring if they did not get the money today, then we were all going to see financial ruin, and the heavens were going to rain down fire on us, and dogs and cats were going to sleeping together. Well, the money has been approved but they still have not received it, and low and behold, my bank still has its doors opened, my job has not laid off anybody, my wife still have steady employment. I still manage to go to grocery stores and find food and drink there. Gasoline still flows from the pumps, and I still get direct TV. I think the credit crunch is going to get worse, I think loans will be a bit tougher to get, but 1 out of 3 Americans without a job like it was in the Great Depression is NOT going to happen.

the sooner you stop listening to the news and TV and realize that the world is a very stable place and the sins of a few usually never see it into our breakfast table. The sun will come up tomorrow, and day by day this too shall pass. If you just ignore the hype, live within your means, and do what it takes to feed and clothe your family, then things have a way to work things out.

+1212323243423231

Most intelligent post in this thread.
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:22 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
the sooner you stop listening to the news and TV and realize that the world is a very stable place and the sins of a few usually never see it into our breakfast table. The sun will come up tomorrow, and day by day this too shall pass. If you just ignore the hype, live within your means, and do what it takes to feed and clothe your family, then things have a way to work things out.
I just took a 12% pay cut and haven't got any bonuses this year. I was within my means before, now I have to sell some one of them to stay within my new means. I would say that it has had a significant enough impact in my life.

However, I don't see this becoming nearly as dismal as the Great Depression either.
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:49 PM   #23
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Why should their suppliers workers have their wages cut? That is bulldung. Bush, you are telling ME that because I own a business and supply parts, already as cheap as I can possibly go, you feel I need to cut my wages - and provide proof, to help them out. The parts I sell are marked up over 1000% by GM and Ford.

F.U.
12345 How is that even enforceable? The suppliers are not part of the loan deal.
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:13 PM   #24
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Bush said that worker compensation must be comparable to those paid by foreign automakers operating on United States soil, thus delivering a potentially crippling blow to the United Auto Workers.
The days of the UAW are numbered...
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:17 PM   #25
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The days of the UAW are numbered...
That's probably the only positive thing I see in this. I mean I don't have a problem with somebody working hard and making a living out of it, but modern labor unions take job security to a level that is just way too high and they're literally chasing jobs out of the country in many manufacturing industries.
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