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Old 02-21-2009, 05:27 PM   #1
sponaugle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4498
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle:
WRX H6-3.0 Turbo
www.surgelinetuning.com

Default A little GT30 .63 action..

I recently switched from the .82 A/R turbine housing to the .63 A/R turbine housing on my GT30R equipped 08 STI. Since I recently put in a new shortblock, I decided to do a tune to get a good pump fuel map to drive around on. Nothing crazy, just a good 21-22psi pump map.

I thought I would share a few of the details and log.

Mods:
2008 STI
Cobb AP v 2, with Speed Density Software
Perrin GT3076R .63 Kit
Perrin FMIC + Intake
DW 850cc Injectors
Perrin Fuel Rails
Walbro 255 Pump
Perrin Headers
Perrin Full Exhaust
92 Octane Oregon Pump Fuel
Stock Boost Control with Perrin EBCS



Results: 391 lb-ft, 378whp @ 22psi.



Here is a look at the power and torque (measured with our Mustang Dyno), plus an overlay of ‘Calculated Load’ and ‘MAF’. During the tune I scaled the MAF table down a bit so peak load wouldn’t go above 4.0, as that limit removal isn’t in the beta software I was using. With the Perrin intake you already get a bit of downscale, which is nice to keep MAF voltages lower. The absolute MAF-HP or Load-Torque will not be correct, but the relative values are spot on. As is obvious, Torque follows load, and HP follows MAF. If you get a good MAF curve dialed in, just logging load/MAF can get you a great HP/Torque estimate (if you are interested in differences, not absolute values.

As for ‘conservative tune’, I prefer to let my numbers talk. I posted a complete datalog below. (hint hint)



Here is graph of data from that dyno pull. You can see timing, boost, and AFRs. AFRs are 11.2-11.5. See datalog below.



Here is a look at the Injector Duty Cycle (and MAF for comparison). 80% peak injector duty cycle.. Just about perfect. There is not enough headroom with these injectors to do E85 unfortunately. With a well calibrated MAF curve it is amazing how closely it follows duty cycle.



Here is a pull on the street. You can see that load is higher on the street, and boost spools a bit faster. Looks like I need to increase the dyno load just a bit.



Last, but not least, some flat foot shifting ( running 18-19psi map ). Yummy!

Jeff Sponaugle
Surgeline Tuning

Last edited by sponaugle; 02-22-2009 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 02-21-2009, 05:29 PM   #2
sponaugle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4498
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle:
WRX H6-3.0 Turbo
www.surgelinetuning.com

Default

Code:

MAF	BOOST	TPS	WGDC	LOAD	INJ	RPM	Tdyn	IGN	AFR
21.04	0.29	100	0	1.28	4.43	989	0.8	10.5	15.88
21.04	0.29	100	0	1.28	4.43	989	0.8	10.5	15.46
21.04	0.29	100	0	1.28	4.43	989	0.8	10.5	14.86
21.38	0.29	100	54.12	1.31	4.46	1045	0.94	10.5	14.36
21.38	0.29	100	54.12	1.31	4.46	1045	0.94	10.5	14.20
22.71	0.29	100	54.12	1.32	4.68	1096	1.04	11	14.20
22.71	0.29	100	54.12	1.32	4.68	1096	1.04	11	14.29
22.71	0.29	100	54.12	1.32	4.68	1096	1.04	11	14.46
26.07	0.44	100	54.12	1.38	4.84	1135	1.01	9.5	14.69
26.07	0.44	100	54.12	1.38	4.84	1135	1.01	9.5	14.03
26.07	0.44	100	54.12	1.38	4.84	1135	1.01	9.5	14.26
28.56	0.58	100	54.12	1.43	5.3	1183	0.99	8.5	14.42
28.56	0.58	100	54.12	1.43	5.3	1183	0.99	8.5	15.09
30.54	0.87	100	54.12	1.46	6.12	1248	2.06	9	14.71
30.54	0.87	100	54.12	1.46	6.12	1248	2.06	9	14.20
30.54	0.87	100	54.12	1.46	6.12	1248	2.06	9	14.01
31.32	1.02	100	54.12	1.49	6.45	1314	3.98	9.5	13.91
31.32	1.02	100	54.12	1.49	6.45	1314	3.98	9.5	13.88
33.72	1.16	100	54.12	1.51	6.94	1355	5.08	10	13.85
33.72	1.16	100	54.12	1.51	6.94	1355	5.08	10	13.81
33.72	1.16	100	54.12	1.51	6.94	1355	5.08	10	13.77
35.15	1.31	100	54.12	1.52	7.3	1425	6.84	11	13.76
35.15	1.31	100	54.12	1.52	7.3	1425	6.84	11	13.71
36.84	1.45	100	54.12	1.52	7.34	1496	8.8	12	13.69
36.84	1.45	100	54.12	1.52	7.34	1496	8.8	12	13.71
36.84	1.45	100	54.12	1.52	7.34	1496	8.8	12	13.85
38.57	1.6	100	54.12	1.51	7.74	1578	10.49	13	13.97
38.57	1.6	100	54.12	1.51	7.74	1578	10.49	13	14.03
38.57	1.6	100	54.12	1.51	7.74	1578	10.49	13	14.03
41.94	1.89	100	54.12	1.54	8.3	1621	12.1	14	14.06
41.94	1.89	100	54.12	1.54	8.3	1621	12.1	14	14.04
43.9	1.89	100	54.12	1.55	8.74	1708	13.53	14	14.04
43.9	1.89	100	54.12	1.55	8.74	1708	13.53	14	13.99
43.9	1.89	100	54.12	1.55	8.74	1708	13.53	14	14.01
45.23	2.03	100	70.2	1.54	9.05	1767	15.04	18.5	13.98
45.23	2.03	100	70.2	1.54	9.05	1767	15.04	18.5	13.99
46.04	2.18	100	70.2	1.53	9.49	1853	16.46	20	13.97
46.04	2.18	100	70.2	1.53	9.49	1853	16.46	20	14.05
46.04	2.18	100	70.2	1.53	9.49	1853	16.46	20	14.11
48.99	2.32	100	70.2	1.55	9.88	1929	17.98	19.5	14.19
48.99	2.32	100	70.2	1.55	9.88	1929	17.98	19.5	14.19
48.99	2.32	100	70.2	1.55	9.88	1929	17.98	19.5	14.24
51.63	2.47	100	70.2	1.57	10.19	1990	19.89	20	14.26
51.63	2.47	100	70.2	1.57	10.19	1990	19.89	20	14.17
55.37	2.61	100	65.1	1.62	11.45	2065	19.97	19	13.92
55.37	2.61	100	65.1	1.62	11.45	2065	19.97	19	13.68
55.37	2.61	100	65.1	1.62	11.45	2065	19.97	19	13.50
58.63	2.76	100	60.39	1.67	12.69	2124	19.71	19	13.29
58.63	2.76	100	60.39	1.67	12.69	2124	19.71	19	13.02
58.63	2.76	100	60.39	1.67	12.69	2124	19.71	19	12.74
62.1	3.05	100	52.55	1.72	13.65	2207	19.49	18	12.56
62.1	3.05	100	52.55	1.72	13.65	2207	19.49	18	12.41
66.28	3.34	100	47.84	1.79	15.26	2308	19.2	17.5	12.31
66.28	3.34	100	47.84	1.79	15.26	2308	19.2	17.5	12.23
66.28	3.34	100	47.84	1.79	15.26	2308	19.2	17.5	12.18
70.79	3.77	100	40	1.86	16.17	2369	18.76	16.5	12.14
70.79	3.77	100	40	1.86	16.17	2369	18.76	16.5	12.11
75.19	4.35	100	37.65	1.92	17.25	2450	18.31	15.5	12.12
75.19	4.35	100	37.65	1.92	17.25	2450	18.31	15.5	12.07
75.19	4.35	100	37.65	1.92	17.25	2450	18.31	15.5	12.00
78.97	4.79	100	38.43	1.98	18.5	2551	17.69	15.5	11.89
78.97	4.79	100	38.43	1.98	18.5	2551	17.69	15.5	11.88
78.97	4.79	100	38.43	1.98	18.5	2551	17.69	15.5	11.87
84.75	5.37	100	39.22	2.04	19.65	2632	17.18	14.5	11.89
84.75	5.37	100	39.22	2.04	19.65	2632	17.18	14.5	11.83
93.01	6.09	100	39.61	2.13	20.84	2713	16.6	15	11.83
93.01	6.09	100	39.61	2.13	20.84	2713	16.6	15	11.79
93.01	6.09	100	39.61	2.13	20.84	2713	16.6	15	11.76
104.1	6.82	100	40.78	2.25	23.41	2814	15.7	15	11.67
104.1	6.82	100	40.78	2.25	23.41	2814	15.7	15	11.56
116.87	7.98	100	43.14	2.42	26.38	2944	14.74	15.5	11.46
116.87	7.98	100	43.14	2.42	26.38	2944	14.74	15.5	11.34
116.87	7.98	100	43.14	2.42	26.38	2944	14.74	15.5	11.21
129.09	9.28	100	45.88	2.59	30.05	3062	13.18	15.5	11.13
129.09	9.28	100	45.88	2.59	30.05	3062	13.18	15.5	11.09
142.18	10.88	100	47.84	2.7	32.34	3158	11.68	16.5	11.07
142.18	10.88	100	47.84	2.7	32.34	3158	11.68	16.5	11.11
142.18	10.88	100	47.84	2.7	32.34	3158	11.68	16.5	11.15
156.02	12.76	100	49.02	2.84	35.09	3290	10.03	15.5	11.29
156.02	12.76	100	49.02	2.84	35.09	3290	10.03	15.5	11.37
156.02	12.76	100	49.02	2.84	35.09	3290	10.03	15.5	11.53
173.26	15.37	100	49.41	3	38.33	3455	7.33	12.5	11.62
173.26	15.37	100	49.41	3	38.33	3455	7.33	12.5	11.68
173.26	19.14	100	50.2	3.53	49.11	3654	3.77	12	11.59
222.15	19.14	100	50.2	3.53	49.11	3654	3.77	12	11.39
222.15	19.14	100	50.2	3.53	49.11	3654	3.77	12	11.22
240.66	21.9	100	48.63	3.84	54.93	3843	0.49	12	11.21
240.66	21.9	100	48.63	3.84	54.93	3843	0.49	12	11.33
240.66	21.9	100	48.63	3.84	54.93	3843	0.49	12	11.47
253.79	22.34	100	48.24	3.78	55.51	4003	-0.08	13	11.52
253.79	22.34	100	48.24	3.78	55.51	4003	-0.08	13	11.57
272.68	22.34	100	48.63	3.81	59.53	4228	-0.36	13.5	11.57
272.68	22.34	100	48.63	3.81	59.53	4228	-0.36	13.5	11.60
272.68	22.34	100	48.63	3.81	59.53	4228	-0.36	13.5	11.56
278.43	22.34	100	49.41	3.86	62.11	4411	-0.14	14	11.55
278.43	22.34	100	49.41	3.86	62.11	4411	-0.14	14	11.51
292.79	22.34	100	48.24	3.81	64.57	4586	-0.25	14	11.49
292.79	22.34	100	48.24	3.81	64.57	4586	-0.25	14	11.44
292.79	22.34	100	48.24	3.81	64.57	4586	-0.25	14	11.40
296.24	21.9	100	46.67	3.76	65.4	4716	-0.22	14.5	11.36
296.24	21.9	100	46.67	3.76	65.4	4716	-0.22	14.5	11.34
296.24	21.9	100	46.67	3.76	65.4	4716	-0.22	14.5	11.33
304.28	21.47	100	47.06	3.75	68.49	4939	0.01	15	11.29
304.28	21.47	100	47.06	3.75	68.49	4939	0.01	15	11.25
319.21	21.32	100	49.02	3.73	70.68	5097	0.1	15.5	11.22
319.21	21.32	100	49.02	3.73	70.68	5097	0.1	15.5	11.20
319.21	21.32	100	49.02	3.73	70.68	5097	0.1	15.5	11.17
324.97	21.61	100	49.8	3.74	72.27	5212	-0.01	15.5	11.13
324.97	21.61	100	49.8	3.74	72.27	5212	-0.01	15.5	11.12
335.52	21.76	100	49.8	3.76	74.42	5367	-0.3	16	11.12
335.52	21.76	100	49.8	3.76	74.42	5367	-0.3	16	11.13
335.52	21.76	100	49.8	3.76	74.42	5367	-0.3	16	11.16
347.52	21.9	100	50.2	3.74	77.17	5565	-0.37	16.5	11.14
347.52	21.9	100	50.2	3.74	77.17	5565	-0.37	16.5	11.16
347.52	21.9	100	50.2	3.74	77.17	5565	-0.37	16.5	11.13
353.01	22.05	100	50.2	3.72	79.21	5712	-0.37	16.5	11.16
353.01	22.05	100	50.2	3.72	79.21	5712	-0.37	16.5	11.13
354.85	22.05	100	49.8	3.7	80.09	5866	-0.51	16.5	11.13
354.85	22.05	100	49.8	3.7	80.09	5866	-0.51	16.5	11.10
354.85	22.05	100	49.8	3.7	80.09	5866	-0.51	16.5	11.10
359.22	22.05	100	49.41	3.62	79.99	5952	-0.56	17	11.12
359.22	22.05	100	49.41	3.62	79.99	5952	-0.56	17	11.13
358.6	21.9	100	48.63	3.53	79.26	6091	-0.54	17.5	11.17
358.6	21.9	100	48.63	3.53	79.26	6091	-0.54	17.5	11.21
358.6	21.9	100	48.63	3.53	79.26	6091	-0.54	17.5	11.26
357.34	21.47	100	47.84	3.43	80.23	6268	-0.26	18	11.29
357.34	21.47	100	47.84	3.43	80.23	6268	-0.26	18	11.30
357.34	21.47	100	47.84	3.43	80.23	6268	-0.26	18	11.32
354.84	21.32	100	47.84	3.36	79.09	6392	-0.1	18.5	11.33
354.84	21.32	100	47.84	3.36	79.09	6392	-0.1	18.5	11.33
353.6	21.03	100	47.84	3.3	78.94	6492	0.01	18.5	11.30
353.6	21.03	100	47.84	3.3	78.94	6492	0.01	18.5	11.29
353.6	21.03	100	47.84	3.3	78.94	6492	0.01	18.5	11.30
360.48	20.89	100	48.24	3.25	80.09	6586	0.15	19	11.32
360.48	20.89	100	48.24	3.25	80.09	6586	0.15	19	11.29
354.84	21.32	100	48.24	3.24	80.4	6612	0.01	19.5	11.29
354.84	21.32	100	48.24	3.24	80.4	6612	0.01	19.5	11.30
354.84	21.32	100	48.24	3.24	80.4	6612	0.01	19.5	11.36
352.99	20.89	100	48.24	3.15	79.75	6797	0.19	20.5	11.37
352.99	20.89	100	48.24	3.15	79.75	6797	0.19	20.5	11.40
352.99	20.74	100	48.24	3.08	78.53	6817	0.14	21	11.38
352.39	20.74	100	48.63	3.08	78.53	6817	0.14	21	11.64
352.39	20.74	100	48.63	3.08	78.53	6817	0.14	21	11.76
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Old 02-21-2009, 05:50 PM   #3
sponaugle
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Join Date: Feb 2001
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www.surgelinetuning.com

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Oh.. and here is a look at the fuel map:



I decided to make the fuel map simple, and work on the MAF curve to try to get AFRs close to the targets. It worked pretty well, but still needs a bit more work. The load comp map could use a few tweaks as well.



EDIT: Here is the dynamic map, which is added to the base map.



Cheers,


Jeff Sponaugle
Surgeline Tuning

Last edited by sponaugle; 02-24-2009 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 02-22-2009, 07:35 PM   #4
wrxsti.l
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponaugle View Post
Oh.. and here is a look at the fuel map:



I decided to make the fuel map simple, and work on the MAF curve to try to get AFRs close to the targets. It worked pretty well, but still needs a bit more work. The load comp map could use a few tweaks as well.



EDIT: Here is the dynamic map, which is added to the base map.



Cheers,

Jeff Sponaugle
Nice post - good to see a tuner not scared to post some real info.

That's some aggresive timing, got to love E85

Also, are your actual AFR's tracking exactly as your fuel map, or are they out a bit - your AFR's look on the lean side? Or do you tune E85 more lean compared to pump?
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Old 02-22-2009, 10:21 PM   #5
sponaugle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxsti.l View Post
Nice post - good to see a tuner not scared to post some real info.

That's some aggresive timing, got to love E85

Also, are your actual AFR's tracking exactly as your fuel map, or are they out a bit - your AFR's look on the lean side? Or do you tune E85 more lean compared to pump?
Hmm.. You have lost me. Per the first post, this is a pump fuel tune. The mention along the way about E85 was in reference to E85 on my EZ30R WRX.

As for the timing, also as the timing chart shows, 12 degrees at Torque peak, and 17.5 at HP Peak. I wouldn't consider that agresssive, especially if it really were E85.

As for AFRs, 11.2-11.5 AFRs is spot on for 92 octane. For E85, I would probably be around the same lambda, but of course it would be a much richer AFR.

AFRs are pretty close to the map, but not perfect. I left the map as a flat set of values so I could work on the MAF curve. Once that is close, I can fine tune within the fuel map.


Jeff Sponaugle
Surgeline Tuning

Last edited by sponaugle; 02-24-2009 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 02-21-2009, 05:58 PM   #6
TDagen
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Sweet!!!! gt3076 >or 3071?
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:06 PM   #7
sponaugle
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Originally Posted by TDagen View Post
Sweet!!!! gt3076 >or 3071?
3076R, .63 A/R

With the .82 at 27psi peak and 24-25 at redline with Meth Spray I did 470 lb-ft of torque and 430 whp, but I doubt I could get that much whp with the .63. Once I get a few more miles on the shortblock I'll turn up the boost a bit in the midrange and see how it does. I did manage a few pulls at 400-405 lb-ft while tuning.

Cheers,

Jeff Sponaugle
Surgeline Tuning

Last edited by sponaugle; 02-24-2009 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:09 PM   #8
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Great running car, Just wondering how come you used 90 octane? Isn't 93 or so available out there? We all get jealous because 91 is the highest commonly used here in CA, We would all kill for 93 to be in our cars FULL TIME, just wondering why you didnt feel the same way.
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:13 PM   #9
sponaugle
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Originally Posted by KB'izzle View Post
Great running car, Just wondering how come you used 90 octane? Isn't 93 or so available out there? We all get jealous because 91 is the highest commonly used here in CA, We would all kill for 93 to be in our cars FULL TIME, just wondering why you didnt feel the same way.
Typo.. fixed. Premium gas here is 92 octane. 90 octane sounds downright scary.

And yes, I hate tuning on the Cali 91!

Jeff Sponaugle
Surgeline Tuning

Last edited by sponaugle; 02-24-2009 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:54 PM   #10
GregsblueRex
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Originally Posted by sponaugle View Post
3076R, .63 A/R

With the .82 at 27psi peak and 24-25 at redline with Meth Spray I did 470 lb-ft of torque and 430 whp, but I doubt I could get that much whp with the .63. Once I get a few more miles on the shortblock I'll turn up the boost a bit in the midrange and see how it does. I did manage a few pulls at 400-405 lb-ft while tuning.

Cheers,

Jeff Sponaugle
Surgeline Tuning
I would greatly appreciate a .82 vs. .63 pump dyno comparison....if you have it.
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Old 02-24-2009, 01:03 PM   #11
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Word, As I have the .82 and wanna see it as well
My dyno chart is down on post #21 of this thread, my tuner posted it : http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1638283
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Old 02-24-2009, 02:23 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by GregsblueRex View Post
I would greatly appreciate a .82 vs. .63 pump dyno comparison....if you have it.
This is the closest thing I have:

This is my car with the .63 on pump vs the .82 on pump, but I was running a bit more midrange boost. The extra torque in the .82 is due to that boost (~ 23 psi). The power uptop is at almost the same boost level (21-22psi).

The 82 doesn't make much difference at this lower boost level, as you would expect. Spoolup is of course not as good with the 82, as evident in the torque.



Jeff Sponaugle
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Old 02-24-2009, 04:04 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by sponaugle View Post

I imagine that the lower gears would look proportionally worse with the larger AR.

ie: in 2nd gear the spool hit would be 700 rpm between the two.


Ron: I have yet to see any boost threshold change attributable to bb vs journal bearing, and it doesn't make sense that any would exist.

I can however see a small decrease in the spool time (time to boost when already above boost threshold), this is supported the claims that an ATP3071 supposedly has better throttle response then a 20g.


Ben
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:13 PM   #14
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Nice will you ever put larger injectors on and use E-85 on this since 90 oct is terrible? That MAf looks like its scaled great! I can't wait for spring...
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:20 PM   #15
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Nice will you ever put larger injectors on and use E-85 on this since 90 oct is terrible? That MAf looks like its scaled great! I can't wait for spring...
Indeed 92 octane is terrible. [typo on my part]

I was planning on using some DW1000s to do E85. I did E85 in my EZ30R 2002 WRX (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1645176), although I doubt I will be able to match the 540+ lb ft of torque.

Jeff Sponaugle
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:19 PM   #16
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That 08 def. puts down some good power with .63 and pump gas... At only 22psi also.
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:30 PM   #17
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Ez30R ftw only 20 psi 541 ft/lb wow...Now thats a cool project, does v6 suck down the E-85??
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:42 PM   #18
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Ez30R ftw only 20 psi 541 ft/lb wow...Now thats a cool project, does v6 suck down the E-85??
100% duty cycle with 6 injectors at 810ccs, so that is about the same as maxing out 4 1215cc injectors on an EJ.

Jeff Sponaugle
Surgeline Tuning

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Old 02-21-2009, 06:34 PM   #19
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good results, exceptional and thorough data

appreciate your contribution to this forum
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:49 PM   #20
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About damn time some tuner actually posted information regarding their tunes and some excellent documentation. Great job, Jeff. Looks good
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Old 02-21-2009, 07:07 PM   #21
TDagen
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Yea it is about time someone posted up some good information with out hiding timing or Afr or something lol.
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Old 02-21-2009, 07:10 PM   #22
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Yea it is about time someone posted up some good information with out hiding timing or Afr or something lol.
I was about the post the SAME thing.

Awesome work, and thanks for sharing the details.

What kind of engine upgrades have you made? Pistons? Rods?
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Old 02-21-2009, 07:24 PM   #23
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Jeff, maybe I missed it, but what are you using for boost control on this car?
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Old 02-21-2009, 07:42 PM   #24
sponaugle
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Originally Posted by jordanretro1223 View Post
I was about the post the SAME thing.

Awesome work, and thanks for sharing the details.

What kind of engine upgrades have you made? Pistons? Rods?
Quote:
Originally Posted by flycaster View Post
Jeff, maybe I missed it, but what are you using for boost control on this car?
The shortblock I built at home. New case (I split the sleeve on the old one. ). Weisco pistons, Carrillo rods, ACL bearings, stock crank.

Boost control is stock, but with a Perrin EBCS. It works pretty well on the street, and I have I-Drive set at wastegate (16psi), S-Drive at 18.5psi, and S# at 22psi.

I'm switching to an AEM 5 bar map sensor this week so I can run Speed Density at higher boost levels. With the higher MAP, I should be able to use the stock boost control up to 30psi.

Jeff Sponaugle
Surgeline Tuning

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Old 02-21-2009, 07:50 PM   #25
TDagen
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Hey how is the double pumper working out on the Ez30r are you still switching to the a1000? Reason I ask is I am looking at throwing in a Fullblown double pumper in my car to run 1250cc injectors w/Atp 3076.

Last edited by TDagen; 02-22-2009 at 01:53 AM.
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