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Old 04-25-2002, 01:26 AM   #1
SevenStyle
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Question Turbo vs N/A?

What are the benefits of turbo vs N/A on my 2002 RS?
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Old 04-25-2002, 01:42 AM   #2
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You could spend at least $2000 on N/A mods (intake, cams, headers, cat back exhaust, pullys, high flow cat, lightweight flywheel) and still not catch a WRX, But it will be better on your pocketbook in the long run. If you go turbo and do it right, you will spend at least $4000 (turbo kit, SAFC, ITC, J&S, performance clutch) and will beat any stock WRX. However, if you were considering turbo all along, you should have just bought a WRX. The WRX has much more potential. Just my $.02
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Old 04-25-2002, 01:42 AM   #3
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i'd like to know also, but i'd like to add a Supercharger to that

hmm with Turbo and SC, we'd probably get more power but might hurt our engine?... not made for this kind of power?... i'm not sure..
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Old 04-25-2002, 01:48 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Josico
i'd like to know also, but i'd like to add a Supercharger to that

hmm with Turbo and SC, we'd probably get more power but might hurt our engine?... not made for this kind of power?... i'm not sure..
The only Supercharger kit I've ever seen for the 2.5RS was the Rimmer kit(s) There were 3 different variations. Some people fried pistons with it, some were okay.

There are many happy turbo'd 2.5RS's running as daily drivers. It's all about the engine management and tuning. You have to know what you're doing. The 2.5L engine can only take so much boost in it's stock form. Know what that level is and control detonation and you'll be okay.
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Old 04-25-2002, 03:28 AM   #5
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FWIW a 227HP NA will be slower then a 227HP FI car...want to know why?? because a FI car has overcome volumetric effiency(Spelling??)

jeremy
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Old 04-25-2002, 03:52 AM   #6
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Turboed engines are more efficient as they do not have to waste as much energy trying to suck air in. Also with boost you can tune it so it creates a fat wide band of useable horse power. Not the peaky NA kind. (Broad generalization, but basiclly yeah. )

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Old 04-25-2002, 09:03 AM   #7
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as far as i know, you cant add both SC and turbo. back to the topic:

true if you wanted a turbo you should of purchased a WRX, the 2.5L engines arent teh greatest for turbos. me im going to NA my car, then when i smoke someone in a WRX, they can see my sticker "all motor". also if you couldnt afford a WRX and want to turbo your 2.5RS, you werent thinking right.


peace out
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Old 04-25-2002, 09:04 AM   #8
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Supercharging is a great way to do Forced Induction. It gets a lot of downplay on these boards because of experiences with Rick Rimmer's crappy kit. Granted Superchargers aren't as efficient as turbochargers, but supercharging is a whole different car when compared to a turbocharged car.

Personally I feel the cheapest route to great power is turbocharging.
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Old 04-25-2002, 10:17 AM   #9
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I don't understand why somebody would want to turbocharge a 2002 RS. The WRX is available in that body style, so why not use what's available? Aside from a engine prepped from the factory for a turbo, the suspension is better, the brakes are better, some interior pieces are better. It just doesn't make sense to try and do what Subaru has already done for you.

On a GC8, however, there is no factory option, so aftermarket turbos are obviously the way to go.

Regarding your question, though, if you really want a turbo, make sure you thuroughly read the aftermarket turbo section of this site. The problems that some of those guys are having and the thousands upon thousands of dollars they are spending is enough to make anybody think twice.

At this point, I think the only way I'll go forced induction is if a decent SC kit comes out. Otherwise I'll play it safe in the world of N/A.
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Old 04-25-2002, 10:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by HndaTch627
FWIW a 227HP NA will be slower then a 227HP FI car...want to know why?? because a FI car has overcome volumetric effiency(Spelling??)

jeremy
Can you explain this? There seem to be many missing variables here.
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Old 04-25-2002, 10:21 AM   #11
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I disagree about WRXs having more potential. The great thing about the 2.5RS is it has low end torque, and plenty to spare. Combine that with the top end power from a turbo, you have a beast that will most likely beat any WRX out there, even with minimal boost. Our engine produces gobs of power low down, and the WRX has very little, making the WRX's almost only power be the turbo. Don't get me wrong, WRXs are nice, but I'd much rather have a 2.5RS-T.
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Old 04-25-2002, 10:29 AM   #12
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Well, that pretty much boils down to personal preference and driving style. Still, dollar for dollar, a WRX is a much safer option per hp produced than a RS-T (until, perhaps, you get into astronomical amounts of power).
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Old 04-25-2002, 11:58 AM   #13
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I have to say it all depends on how much money you want to spend and what your power goals are. If your goal is a moderate 300hp to the wheels I would have to say the cheapest way to get there in my own opinion is by using the EJ20 WRX engine. I got a ride in a WRX that dynoed at 278 to the wheels. He only spent $5000 in mods and labor to get there. However the downfall is he spent more to buy his car. So a $7000-$9000 Turbo setup/Exhaust/Engine management/Clutch-Flywheel doesn't make the total cost of the car come out more expensive then what Reggie paid for his modded WRX.

So in a twisted way it is up to personal preference. Would you like your turbo with round headlights or Classic GC8 style?

Now in the long run when it comes to peak power potential with a complet disregard for money I feel that both engines would come out fairly equel. You may say the EJ25 has more displacement. Well you could always bore and stroke the EJ20. Both engines cylinder head will need stiffer springs new valves and a good port and polish. Both engines could benefit from an intake manifold redesign. Both engines definitely need forged pistons and rods.
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Old 04-25-2002, 12:05 PM   #14
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I have to say it all depends on how much money you want to spend and what your power goals are. If your goal is a moderate 300hp to the wheels I would have to say the cheapest way to get there in my own opinion is by using the EJ20 WRX engine. I got a ride in a WRX that dynoed at 278 to the wheels. He only spent $5000 in mods and labor to get there. However the downfall is he spent more to buy his car. So a $7000-$9000 Turbo setup/Exhaust/Engine management/Clutch-Flywheel doesn't make the total cost of the car come out more expensive then what Reggie paid for his modded WRX.

So in a twisted way it is up to personal preference. Would you like your turbo with round headlights or Classic GC8 style?

Now in the long run when it comes to peak power potential with a complet disregard for money I feel that both engines would come out fairly equel. You may say the EJ25 has more displacement. Well you could always bore and stroke the EJ20. Both engines cylinder head will need stiffer springs new valves and a good port and polish. Both engines could benefit from an intake manifold redesign. Both engines definitely need forged pistons and rods.
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Old 04-25-2002, 02:01 PM   #15
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what i meant to say is the Turbo VS the SC

here is an upcoming SC kit link...
http://www.rs25.com/Forums/showthrea...s=&threadid=42

read page 21 for a "summing it all up" post...
http://www.rs25.com/Forums/showthrea...&pagenumber=21

also, i've heard that COBB is making a SC kit also.
http://www.wrxforum.com/cgi-bin/ulti...c;f=4;t=000003

and the reason i'm considering to Turbo or SC my MY02 RS is that i only paid 25K cnd for it where as i would have had to pay around 37K cnd for a WRX.

and then adding that 5K for the WRX i would have to had paid 45K cnd for the modding of my car which i pay for myself !!

so yeah, a RS-T is the 'cheaper' route for me to take, but i'm doing my research as well. i've heard that the Rimmer kits were bad so i opted out SC until i heard of the two kits i saw (posted above)...

what i'd like to know is why are SC kits always looked down upon when compared to a Turbo? is it really the better way to go (the turbo) or just that there was never a good SC kit that was developed for the EJ25?
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Old 04-25-2002, 02:28 PM   #16
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Oh damn! Cobb is coming out with a SC kit, too?

Wow. I can't wait until I can afford to slap one of these puppie on my car. Hopefully it comes in at the price they anticipate.
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Old 04-25-2002, 05:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Josico
what i'd like to know is why are SC kits always looked down upon when compared to a Turbo? is it really the better way to go (the turbo) or just that there was never a good SC kit that was developed for the EJ25?
Turbo is more efficient... It is also a better means of all out power. Superchargers allow you to boost your low end, but at the expense of top end power. Superchargers are usually a better option for larger displacement engines (ie, camaros, mustangs, etc...). Hope I've added and not detracted from the conversation...
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Old 04-25-2002, 05:33 PM   #18
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you could spend 2000 bucks on your car and get it near WRX speed.. (stock WRX speed) now if the WRX guy put 2g's into his car... your outta luck.
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Old 04-25-2002, 11:07 PM   #19
SevenStyle
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Default What I've got

I'm not looking to race anyone or compare myself to the WRX or anyone else.

I just want some more power out of my car and if the turbo is feasible.

From what I hear, doing your research and not overdoing things and my baby will be fine and running smoothly?
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Old 04-26-2002, 01:21 AM   #20
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turbo should be the last thing you do to a N/A engine. build it up strong then at the end when all other options are done. you turbo charge the M***********.
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Old 04-26-2002, 04:05 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by erice1984
turbo should be the last thing you do to a N/A engine. build it up strong then at the end when all other options are done. you turbo charge the M***********.
haha.. i like that... i might as well do that meanwhile as i wait for the news of the SC kits and / or Turbo kits that may come out later on?

Danz: well i'm just thinking of what you are saying regards to the higher displacement and SC. i gues you are correct. however for my purposes (which is strictly AutoCrossing - Solo 2)... i would believe the low end is what i want? do you agree with that?... or still believe the turbo is more effienct. (if so, please pursuade me heh )
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Old 04-26-2002, 08:21 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Josico
Danz: well i'm just thinking of what you are saying regards to the higher displacement and SC. i gues you are correct. however for my purposes (which is strictly AutoCrossing - Solo 2)... i would believe the low end is what i want? do you agree with that?... or still believe the turbo is more effienct. (if so, please pursuade me heh )
Yes in autocross, a SC would definately be the ****... That low end grunt would own everyone...
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Old 04-26-2002, 09:28 AM   #23
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If you guyz are interested in a supercharger...

read this link....(very very very long)

http://www.rs25.com/Forums/showthread.php?threadid=42
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Old 04-26-2002, 11:50 AM   #24
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(intake, cams, headers, cat back exhaust, pullys, high flow cat, lightweight flywheel) with some nitrous..
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Old 04-26-2002, 01:45 PM   #25
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Quote:
turbo should be the last thing you do to a N/A engine. build it up strong then at the end when all other options are done. you turbo charge the M***********.

Just be careful, you don't build up the NA engine with NA only parts, if you plan to go Force Induction. There are parts which are strictly for high performance NA engines and strictly for Turbo engines. If you get really aggressive NA cams, you'll probably just be wasting money cuz that won't help you much once you go turbo.


So, back to NA vs Turbo...

If you have a HP goal, with NA you'd have to rev the hell out of your engine to get that much power. What you get with turbo is tons more torque, and you don't have to rev that high to get your HP goal. Either way, if you want serious power both ways, it'll get real expensive real fast.
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