Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday October 23, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-10-2009, 08:23 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default 'Cool' car rules could affect radios, phones

Quote:
Washington -- California's latest requirement for the auto industry -- advanced window glazing to keep vehicles cooler -- could prevent drivers from making phone calls, listening to satellite radio or using garage door openers.

It also could lead Chrysler Group LLC to stop selling its soft-top convertible Jeep Wrangler in the Golden State. The standard for sunroofs is so tough that automakers warn the glass would have to be "effectively black."

The California Air Resources Board has adopted a new "Cool Cars" regulation ordering advanced glazing of windows to block the sun's heat and reduce the need for air conditioning. Windows must be coated with microscopic specks of metal oxide to reflect sunlight.

Advocates say the requirements will reduce the temperature inside vehicles, saving gasoline and cutting greenhouse gases.

The regulations take effect in 2012, with a three-year phase-in and requires that by 2014 all vehicles prevent 45 percent of the energy from the sun from entering a vehicle and 60 percent by 2016.The regulation applies to all new vehicles weighing 10,000 pounds or less.The board will review the second phase of the regulation next summer. By the end of this month, the board plans to publish its completed regulation. The public gets 15 days to comment with the final package to be completed by May 2010.

Some companies worry that the new requirements haven't been fully tested. In a Sept. 22 letter, Garmin International Inc., the California Manufacturers and Technology Association and the International Bridge, Tunnel & Turnpike Association warned that "more time was needed to assess the impact" of the rules.

They noted that "ankle bracelets for parolees," along with cell phone calls and laptops, "may be adversely affected by the metallic reflective standard" because the signals "must be able to penetrate the glazing in vehicles."

Garmin's initial testing said the signals from GPS devices were degraded.

Major automakers, led by the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers and Association of International Automobile Manufacturers, argued for a different standard that would "absorb" rather than "reflect" energy and wouldn't risk wireless signals.

"It achieves about 85 percent of the benefit at about 10 percent of the cost, and it doesn't have any of the complications of reflective glazings," said the alliance's Steve Douglas. He said the standard would lead to "more dropped calls." Sunroofs would have to be "effectively black. So there's no light coming through that."

Honda said the new requirement "is simply not feasible" on the current timetable. Toyota Motor Corp. used similar reflective glass in Japan from 1989-94, before dropping it because of problems with radio wave devices.

Chrysler Group LLC has sought an exemption for vehicles' plastic windows, warning it could affect its GEM Electric vehicle and Jeep Wrangler.

The irony is the GEM electric vehicles don't even offer air conditioning, Chrysler said.

"The very popular Jeep Wrangler fitted with a soft convertible top uses flexible roll-up side windows which are not capable of meeting the side window standard," Ross Good, Chrysler's senior manager of government relations told the board. "Outlawing the soft top would require us to use the hard-top vehicle with the hard windows, which would add significant weight to the vehicle."

The initial standard will cost $111 over the life of a vehicle; the 2016 standard will add $250 to the cost of each vehicle. California says it will take five to 12 years for consumers to recoup the costs from reduced gasoline use.

Air conditioning burns more gasoline and contributes to greenhouse gas emissions. California says its regulation will save 700,000 metric tons of carbon dioxide by 2020, which is equivalent to taking 140,000 cars off the road for a year.

The new rule has other benefits, California says. It will keep cars 13 degrees cooler and reduce fading of upholstery and cracking of the dashboard. "This is a common sense and cost-effective measure that will help cool the cars we drive and fight global warning," said Mary Nichols, chairwoman of the California Air Resources Board.

The board has acknowledged that the reflective coating on windows can hinder communications, but said antennas are "an alternative already abundantly used."
http://www.detnews.com/article/20091...321/1148/rss25
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 12:44 PM   #2
fl4tsc
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 177247
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Hilton Head and Clemson, SC
Vehicle:
2005 WRB WRX
16GXT + 44mm EWG = wahhh!

Default

**** you California...
fl4tsc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2009, 08:27 PM   #3
wrxkyle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 199635
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Provo, UT
Vehicle:
02-4 rSTI
White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tallterror View Post
**** you California...
+1234
wrxkyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2009, 08:11 PM   #4
Dex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 163775
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ceti Debent
Vehicle:
2014 Ford Party ST
Dudebro red

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tallterror View Post
**** you California...

**** you back n00b....

It's California fault the environment is going to crap?

All these regs do suck though. Oh well, it's the price of living.
Dex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2009, 10:44 PM   #5
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: in a minefield of caddishness.
Vehicle:
1984 "Skeletor from
"He-Man"

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex View Post
**** you back n00b....

It's California fault the environment is going to crap?
Pristine Pacific air enters California.. horribly polluted air exits California... and negatively affects the ability of it's residents to understand simple equations such as 0+X=X


And yes.. the reason California dictates the nation's automotive pollution standards is because Los Angeles was once a self-made festering health hazard the likes of which we hadn't seen since coal was popular for heating city apartments at the dawn of the industrial revolution.





For everyone else: Here's what I'm really thinking here (and why I'm pro California auto legislation at this point)... let California make all the regulations they want. Write your congresspeople and let them know that you'd rather not follow everything they do like a bunch of lemmings. China's the big market now; Carmakers (aside from Tesla) aren't going to make or break anything by selling cars to California. Let California keep their old cars running like embargoed Cuba has had to do.

EDIT: I don't really dislike California at all. I wish our Federal DOT would grow some balls, though.

Last edited by Calamity Jesus; 10-13-2009 at 06:58 AM.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 12:51 PM   #6
shikataganai
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 92634
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Vehicle:
2007 Land Cruiser
2013 LEAF

Default

sounds like whining from suppliers. where there's a will there's a way, but in this case they feel that it's cheaper to put out whiny press releases instead and hope that the regulation gets changed.

if they don't like the rule then they can forgo the california market, the size of many european countries.

Quote:
The new rule has other benefits, California says. It will keep cars 13 degrees cooler and reduce fading of upholstery and cracking of the dashboard. "This is a common sense and cost-effective measure that will help cool the cars we drive and fight global warning," said Mary Nichols, chairwoman of the California Air Resources Board.
yep.
shikataganai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 01:25 PM   #7
Tim-H
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 65751
Join Date: Jul 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Redmond, WA
Vehicle:
'10 VULVA

Default

Quote:
The irony is the GEM electric vehicles don't even offer air conditioning, Chrysler said.
They are just golf carts, how are they effected by this.
Tim-H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 01:56 PM   #8
Chromer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 20325
Join Date: Jun 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
08 Yamaha WR250R
07 Suzuki DL650

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim-H View Post
They are just golf carts, how are they effected by this.
AFFECTED.

There will be a slowing effect on solar heating of the interior.
They will be affected by being required to have reflective glass.

I don't think the regulation distinguishes between NEV and highway-capable vehicles.
Chromer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 02:08 PM   #9
Weasel Soup
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 159271
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Laramie, WY
Vehicle:
2013 VW Golf R
'95 Escort Rally-X beater

Default

Good theory, but again the execution of it screws everything.

Thanks for ruining automotive fun again law makers.

Then again, if this goes into effect country wide there might be less drivers talking on their phone when they should be watching the road.
Weasel Soup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 02:27 PM   #10
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: in a minefield of caddishness.
Vehicle:
1984 "Skeletor from
"He-Man"

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weasel Soup View Post
Good theory, but again the execution of it screws everything.

Thanks for ruining automotive fun again law makers.

Then again, if this goes into effect country wide there might be less drivers talking on their phone when they should be watching the road.
There's no reason passive antennas can't work in cars just like they did 10 years ago when analog cellphones were weak.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 03:03 PM   #11
Tim-H
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 65751
Join Date: Jul 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Redmond, WA
Vehicle:
'10 VULVA

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromer View Post
I don't think the regulation distinguishes between NEV and highway-capable vehicles.
It should, obviously they don't follow the same safety requirements. Like I said above its bsacically just a golf cart.
Tim-H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 02:01 PM   #12
affinity1
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 97266
Join Date: Sep 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Default

And how does regular tint not help with heat?
affinity1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 02:54 PM   #13
Chromer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 20325
Join Date: Jun 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
08 Yamaha WR250R
07 Suzuki DL650

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by affinity1 View Post
And how does regular tint not help with heat?
Regular tint absorbs infrared, heating up the glass and causing it to re-radiate heat out both sides, so half the IR blocked still goes into the interior as heat. And there is a limit of how much visible light can be blocked on the windshield.

Using a reflective coating, the amount of reduction of heat entry is much higher, even on the windshield.
Chromer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 06:27 PM   #14
JC
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 692
Join Date: Dec 1999
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Vehicle:
2006 Pontiac GTO M6
Triumph Street Triple R

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by affinity1 View Post
And how does regular tint not help with heat?
Well it's mostly illegal in California so it's moot.
JC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 04:53 PM   #15
bal00
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 54772
Join Date: Feb 2004
Default

A8's with the warm weather package for example already have all metal-coated glass.
bal00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 04:59 PM   #16
T-Bonex64
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 188127
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: AZ
Vehicle:
07 STI
Pearl white

Default

I feel for the people of california or "Kalli4nia" as the govenator says it.

I dont know how anyone could put up with the taxes and laws they have thier, plus it seems like they are getting tougher every month! Pretty soon all that will be allowed on the roads will be hybrids, or golf cart style electric cars.
T-Bonex64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 05:23 PM   #17
Mariano
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 56
Join Date: Jun 1999
Chapter/Region: PRSIC
Location: Guaynabo, Puerto Rico
Vehicle:
1999 RS-T (Stage V)
2005 LGT LTD

Default

What bunch of FU#%ING retards we have making rules and laws... * * EXHALE * *
Mariano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 05:38 PM   #18
sxotty
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 95600
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Vehicle:
2003 WRX wagon
Silver

Default

I certainly hope that they do it nationwide so my car is cooler when I get in during the summer. It is actually quite easy to do and it is also incredibly easy to make it so that cell phones and other gadgets work. In fact it is already dealt with for the luxury cars that have the feature.
sxotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 07:31 PM   #19
Kubek
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 53222
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: chicagoland
Vehicle:
'10 Genesis Coupe
'99 Miata

Default

This may be a good idea. It will stop people from talking/texting on cellphone while driving. You will have to stop and go out to make a call.
Kubek is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 07:42 PM   #20
Weasel Soup
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 159271
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Laramie, WY
Vehicle:
2013 VW Golf R
'95 Escort Rally-X beater

Default

^^ I think people will just start demanding the passive antennas BeaverBoy brought into the discussion and the price of a new car will climb more.

Yay for my plans to keep the 07 until it is a classic. Or I die, which ever comes first.
Weasel Soup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2009, 08:48 AM   #21
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: in a minefield of caddishness.
Vehicle:
1984 "Skeletor from
"He-Man"

Default

Automakers always cry foul and that the costs are too high. By the time they put them into production it has become significantly cheaper and they add another line of positive marketing to the options list.

How many automakers still bragged about their car having airbags after 1996? Most of them.

How many automakers said they were too expensive to put in every model prior to 1996? Most of them.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2009, 09:12 AM   #22
bal00
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 54772
Join Date: Feb 2004
Default

Quote:
Major automakers, led by the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers and Association of International Automobile Manufacturers, argued for a different standard that would "absorb" rather than "reflect" energy and wouldn't risk wireless signals.
I'm not really sure what this is supposed to mean. When something absorbs energy, it gets hot. Maybe they want to use regular black tint to heat up the glass instead of the interior surfaces?
bal00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2009, 06:59 PM   #23
whoosh
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 40989
Join Date: Jul 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
OT vag inspector

Default

cool on the inside but, it frys everybody on the street
whoosh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2009, 07:27 PM   #24
delongedoug
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 124113
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: To infinity
Vehicle:
and beyond!

Default

Can CARB just ****ing die already?
delongedoug is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2009, 07:54 PM   #25
Daishi00
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 78952
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: BSG junkie
Vehicle:
2005 WRX
CGM

Default

Use a ceramic based compound and it'll do an even better job and not interfere with radio frequencies.

Of course the cost is a lot higher.
Daishi00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
japanese cars rule... hhcchen Non-Subaru News & Rumors 0 03-09-2006 02:12 PM
fs: car charger for your nextel phone siriusalpha3 Private 'For Sale' Classifieds 0 11-01-2004 04:47 PM
so i get back from germany and get a brand new car...what could be better? bildo Texas Impreza Club Forum -- TXIC 13 03-06-2004 09:07 AM
Out of all the cars that could turn into a boat- they choose a Miata...? ImprezaL Off-Topic 3 09-03-2003 10:32 PM
If we head enough cars, we could do this too! Achilles38WRX Mid West Subaru Owners Club Forum -- MWSOC 7 05-23-2002 09:17 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.