Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday July 10, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-15-2002, 05:01 PM   #1
ej25turbo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 10963
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: York , PA
Vehicle:
1998 2.5 RS-TURBO
Rally Blue Pearl

Default stock 2.5/ minnam turbo/and NOS?

Has any body tried this yet and have it work properly? I'm thinking about doing it but I'm trying to do some research first. I don't want to destroy the motor just yet! If anybody has any info let me know(especially pics of the install!).
ej25turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2002, 05:41 PM   #2
Graham
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11931
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Winter Park, FL/ SMU @ Dallas,
Vehicle:
2001 2.5 RS Turbo
257/FMIC/T3-T04S

Default

Do you want to see pics of a Minnam Kit with nitrous on it? Or just pictures of a turbo kit with nitrous?

Imprezinator was running nitrous on his turbo 2.5, with stock internals. He since blown the motor and gone with a 2.2-T block.


Graham
Graham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2002, 05:46 PM   #3
ej25turbo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 10963
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: York , PA
Vehicle:
1998 2.5 RS-TURBO
Rally Blue Pearl

Default

I'd prefer the minnam kit but any kit should give me a good idea of how they hooked it up! any idea on how much of a shot he was giving it before it took a crap! how much boost was he running at the same time.
ej25turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2002, 06:26 PM   #4
zaidallas
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4106
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Expected whp/torque at 25 psi : 450
Default

I think turbo+nitrous could be too much stress on the engine depending on how much boost and shot you run . say a well tuned 8 psi and a 35-50 shot on stock internals should be fine , cools the mixture and spools up that turbo , just don't do all that in first gear or shift hard doing it.
My current setup includes fully built engine , haltech , custom turbo kit with a laggy turbo , custom fuel system with 8 injectors and a wet NX kit . I'll have pictures up as soon as the car is tuned and dynoed . I'm thinking about using the nitrous after engaging the gears to help spool up the turbo that unspooled because of "slower" shifting to save the gears , get it ? hehe
zaidoun
zaidallas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2002, 08:39 PM   #5
ej25turbo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 10963
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: York , PA
Vehicle:
1998 2.5 RS-TURBO
Rally Blue Pearl

Default

I"m only running 7-8psi. I don't want to run more than a 50 shot(not until I build the motor). I'm just trying to see what kind of electronics I should look into getting and what problems I should look for.
ej25turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2002, 09:32 PM   #6
Eric SS
Sooby Guru
 
Member#: 1914
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: 2013 335i, 2011 G37 coupe
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS w/ EJ22T
swap and N20. gone. : (

Default

Nitrous and turbo is a great way to make power and still be safe. This is how the thinking goes:

Say you are running 8psi for example and no nitrous. The inlet temperature is going to be x.xx degrees. This hot inlet temperature is a great source for detonation.

NOW, run 8psi and a little say 35hp shot of nitrous You will be making more power (prbably in the vacinity of 50hp with 35hp jets) and be as safe if not safer because the inlet temperature is drastically colder which helps fight detonation.

One thing to do is run in the neighborhood of say 5psi around town which is very safe if properly tuned, and nitrous on top of that for when you need it. it is a very reliable combo and the same as running say 8-9psi (just for comparison) but safer because you have the same cylinder pressure, but a much colder charge!

Eric
Eric SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2002, 11:23 AM   #7
RallyNavvie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7113
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Minnesotan in Texas
Vehicle:
2008 Spec B
DGM

Default

Safest is aftermarket engine management like zaidallas said. While I'd rather run anti-lag and an intercooler than use nitrous to spool the turbo and cool my engine I do know the Haltech can do a lot with this. If you install an EBC and run base maps at 5psi then tune peak boost maps for 8-9psi + fine tuning for the nitrous input and activate the EBC and the nitrous system simultaneously (which the Haltech can help out with) you could be pretty safe. Or you can just use the nitrous to spool the turbo instead of buying a ceramic impact bearing turbo like I did for anti-lag

Intake temps don't suffer too terribly when you've got an intercooler. I've been watching intake temps off my intercooler lately and they keep pretty low, even with the TMIC. And with proper engine management you wouldn't really need the extra cooling of nitrous, especially since you aren't constantly running with it on.

~Garrett
RallyNavvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2002, 12:15 PM   #8
Eric SS
Sooby Guru
 
Member#: 1914
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: 2013 335i, 2011 G37 coupe
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS w/ EJ22T
swap and N20. gone. : (

Default

The problem with using nitrous to spool the turbo is that nitrous should not be injected below 3,000rpm's, which is about the same time our turbo's spool. On a high horsepower car where the turbo doesn;t spool until say 5,500rpm's, nitrous works awesome. But on ours, it won;t do to much to decrease lag.

Eric
Edit: accidently had the word turbo where nitrous was supposed to be

Last edited by Eric SS; 05-16-2002 at 11:40 PM.
Eric SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2002, 06:36 PM   #9
ej25turbo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 10963
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: York , PA
Vehicle:
1998 2.5 RS-TURBO
Rally Blue Pearl

Default

I think my set up spools up fast enough, I just want it to pull like hell all the way to redline! but I'm trying to do this without spending the money on a engine management system. Remember, this is my daily driven car. the bottle would only be for weekend racing! I don't have that much money to spare at this point.
ej25turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2002, 07:20 PM   #10
Eric SS
Sooby Guru
 
Member#: 1914
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: 2013 335i, 2011 G37 coupe
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS w/ EJ22T
swap and N20. gone. : (

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by ej25turbo
I don't have that much money to spare at this point.
Then do yourself a favor and hold off on a turbo and just get a nitrous setup. As many people have figured out (including myself), without the proper funds, cutting corners on a turbo setup is disasterous

Eric
Eric SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2002, 07:49 PM   #11
zaidallas
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4106
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Expected whp/torque at 25 psi : 450
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Imprezinator
The problem with using nitrous to spool the turbo is that turbo should not be injected below 3,000rpm's, which is about the same time our turbo's spool.

Eric
That's true , however considering how short our gearing is , one ends up at or above 3K rpm when shifting to a higher gear anyways , and if your turbo isn't that small then its a great benifit , but I also do agree on cooling the mixture , very important especially now with summer coming in .
zaidoun
zaidallas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2002, 12:27 PM   #12
Section 8
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 821
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: "Like a hyena you are..."
Default

Kevin Williams or Thomas (I can't keep them straight ) ran a Minam kit with a 60 shot (???) in a outback sport for some time. He tore up his automatic transmission pretty good too. If he is still on the board you could talk to him about it.

cheeRS,

Greg
Section 8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2002, 01:05 PM   #13
Kevin Thomas
Street Racing Instructor
Moderator
 
Member#: 110
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 1997 OBS, 1996 SVX, 1988 RX
Vehicle:
1989 1989 XT6

Default Re: stock 2.5/ minnam turbo/and NOS?

Quote:
Originally posted by ej25turbo
Has any body tried this yet and have it work properly?
Yes! I've never destroyed my motor. Everything 'should' be fine as long as your air/fuel ratios are ok. Ran this setup from 59k-110k without any engine problems. I did break my autotranny but then I had it rebuilt and never had a problem with it again.

Also, I hit the nitrous from idle all they way to redline in every gear. Still do! Have fun!

Last edited by Kevin Thomas; 05-17-2002 at 02:36 PM.
Kevin Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2002, 01:31 PM   #14
Section 8
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 821
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: "Like a hyena you are..."
Default

Hello Kevin,

Sorry about forgetting your name.

You should have skipped lunch and went to the bathroom before you ran your car on the 1320 . VERY fast 2.2 (Subaru for that matter).

I should have added that you had been doing this before Level Ten had their stuff ready for general consumption.

Beep-Beep Zip BANG!!!

Greg
Section 8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2002, 02:35 PM   #15
Kevin Thomas
Street Racing Instructor
Moderator
 
Member#: 110
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 1997 OBS, 1996 SVX, 1988 RX
Vehicle:
1989 1989 XT6

Thumbs up No problem!

Quote:
Originally posted by Section 8
Hello Kevin,
Sorry about forgetting your name.
Greg
That's no problem Greg! I may have to use the Kevin Williams alias if I do something with the wagon again. All of this WRX this and WRX that and all of the great 1/4 mile times people are running are really getting to me. Makes me REALLY want to put a Ludespeed kit on with some bigger injectors and just lose my mind.

Take care Greg (from the oldy but goody crew)

Last edited by Kevin Thomas; 05-17-2002 at 02:44 PM.
Kevin Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2002, 03:56 AM   #16
JulianH
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2035
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Spokane, WA
Default Re: Re: stock 2.5/ minnam turbo/and NOS?

Quote:
Originally posted by Kevin Thomas


Yes! I've never destroyed my motor. Everything 'should' be fine as long as your air/fuel ratios are ok.
And that's the key... you can run a fair amount of boost + nitrous, *IF* you can get enough fuel into the cylinder. Fuel delivery is a *big* stumbling block when setting up an aftermarket turbo. Adding nitrous into the equation seems like asking for trouble, unless you have an extremely well tuned fuel delivery system. No offense intended towards you Kevin, but I think that there was a lot of luck involved with your success with that setup. You obviously got something right though, cause you were up there with a lot of 2.5T's

JulianH
JulianH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2002, 10:44 AM   #17
ej25turbo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 10963
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: York , PA
Vehicle:
1998 2.5 RS-TURBO
Rally Blue Pearl

Default

Kevin:
Do you have any pictures of your set up on your OBS? I'd really like to see how it was installed with the minnam turbo. Did you do anything special with the fuel system(ie. injectors,fuel pump,additional injectors,etc.) I already have the turbo kit, its been on the car for 35K. I've been running 8PSI in the summer and in the winter it creeps to 10PSI ,no problems! I just want more power. The car is fast but It's been this fast for three years, now I want it a little faster!
ej25turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2002, 12:36 PM   #18
Kevin Thomas
Street Racing Instructor
Moderator
 
Member#: 110
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 1997 OBS, 1996 SVX, 1988 RX
Vehicle:
1989 1989 XT6

Default Pics!

Quote:
Originally posted by ej25turbo
Kevin:
Do you have any pictures of your set up on your OBS?
I don't think I have ANY pics of it or at least pics of it with the intercooler. I'll have to check around to see if I can find some.

Quote:
Originally posted by ej25turbo
Kevin:
Did you do anything special with the fuel system(ie. injectors,fuel pump,additional injectors,etc.)
Not really! The only thing I did was richen up the fuel by adjusting a Hyper SFC (Simple Fuel Controller). Later I purchased an aftermarket fuel pump from RalliSpec just for safety's sake. Even before the RalliSpec pump, air/fuel ratios where right on point.

Problem was I kept learning more and more about tuning our engine for turbocharging from this site and everything just started to seem like 'dumb luck' (like what was said above). Everything just seemed to work as if I had upgraded my fuel injectors, the fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, etc, etc but it was all stock. So I chickened out and sold everything as the car kept getting faster.

So as you can see I'm at a bit of a crossroads as to how things are supposed to work and how things did work.

The main two things I concentrated on each run was making sure my air/fuel ratio was rich (.89-.94 *was using DSM tuning advice*) and making sure my EGT's weren't going over 1600F. My EGT's with the nitrous was actually 1250F but I believe this was because of the position of the EGT sensor. I was told it was reading -200F to low so I estimated I had never run over 1450F with nitrous. It really cooled things down and everything just seemed safe.

So according to my experience, this is a PERFECT setup but tuning wise from this board (as well as the internet), a stock engine isn't supposed to be able to handle turbo/nitrous (one or the other yes) because of the stock fuel system. ???? So take it for what it's worth.
Kevin Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2002, 08:20 PM   #19
ej25turbo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 10963
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: York , PA
Vehicle:
1998 2.5 RS-TURBO
Rally Blue Pearl

Default

Thanks kevin. I understand the whole "dumb luck" thing. For example, "you can't run anything over 7PSI without changing the injectors any going to an EMS". that's kinda funny, considering I'm running 8-10PSI with the fuel computer zeroed out!! The only fuel mods I have are a Supra TT fuel pump and a Vortech 6:1 FMU! Honestly, I'll take all the dumb luck I can, cause its worked for 35,000 miles so far! At this rate I'll take my chances with the bottle. I just need to see some pics of an install with a Minnam intercooler.

Is it alright to put the NOS injector before the intercooler,cause there isn't any room for it after the intercooler?
ej25turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2002, 08:34 PM   #20
Kevin Thomas
Street Racing Instructor
Moderator
 
Member#: 110
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 1997 OBS, 1996 SVX, 1988 RX
Vehicle:
1989 1989 XT6

Default Nitrous location

Quote:
Originally posted by ej25turbo
Is it alright to put the NOS injector before the intercooler,cause there isn't any room for it after the intercooler?
Yes, it should be ok to plumb the nitrous into the intake. I had Rallispec drill a hole into my throttle body and put the nitrous nozzle right into it. That way, the nitrous doesn't have a chance to be heated up travelling through the intake or if your intercooler got 'interheated' through being idle.

It took RalliSpec no time to do it and it was their first nitrous installation.
Kevin Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
'01 rs 2.5 minnam turbo kit, tec II bmandu Engine/Power/Exhaust 1 02-09-2008 12:48 PM
2.5 RS turbo and engine management components FS Chris Stein Private 'For Sale' Classifieds 4 04-20-2005 03:52 PM
2.5 Rs Turbo Kit!!!minnam Stage 2 Really Cheap!! subyrscanada Private 'For Sale' Classifieds 5 02-06-2005 10:41 PM
FS: Stock 2.5 TS Exhaust and Short Ram intake robertg Tri-State Area Forum 15 08-07-2004 06:20 PM
Minnam 2.5 RS Turbo Question! VA_ACCORD Technical Forum Archive 9 08-05-2000 01:39 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.