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Old 05-24-2002, 02:20 PM   #1
milkman
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Default Smoke+new turbo=help

Well, I did it put my turbo in that is, now I have smoke lots of it. A little back round first. New rebuilt turbo, only took it out once for a short drive, no boost, drove real slow, never went above 3500rpm or 1/4 throttle. This is a new rebuild had it worked on buy Innovative Turbo, full rebuild + turbine and shaft. I Took it back a part and there's oil in the turbo manly the exhaust side but a little in the charge pipe to. The only thing I did is when I put the turbo on was the oil return wasn't in the right place so I rotated the cartridge so the return was facing down. Could rotating it damage the seals? Also the large hole is the oil return port right? Any ideals? thanks
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Old 05-24-2002, 02:28 PM   #2
Graham
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Default

Are you using a tapped oil pan or a banjo bolt style return line?

Rotating a turbo will not damage it. I rotated mine and it works awesome so I don't how you could have damaged yours unless you did something terribly wrong. Yes, the big port should be facing down, as nearly all turbos are gravity powered for oil return, so you have the right location.

If you are using the banjo bolt return, make sure that you have the return line steep enough, as to much of a horizontol return will cause oil buildup in the line, resulting in large amounts of smoke from the exhaust.

Another thought, do you have an oil catch can? This might be what you need, though if it happened on the first drivie it sounds like a bad turbo seal or bad return line setup.


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Old 05-24-2002, 02:34 PM   #3
milkman
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Default that's what I'm thinking

How did you rotate it? I just loosened up the bolts and twisted it. The pan is tapped, the oil return line is about 45% slope, and the return line is bigger then the feed. It's an ASR kit sort of.

edit for a P

Last edited by milkman; 05-24-2002 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 05-24-2002, 03:18 PM   #4
Graham
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Default

Well, I rotated my turbo from about the stock position of a WRX turbo, which is with the compressor outlet pointing towards the drivers side horizontol to the ground. From there, I rotated it clockwise (looking at the front of the car) until it the compressor outlet was pointing towards the passenger-side firewall horizontol to the bround. Basically, I just rotated it 180* from its original location. All I did was loosen the bolts on the back of the compressor side of the turbo, I think there were six of them, and rotated it, no problems. I am using a rebuilt Legacy RHB5 turbo, rebuilt from www.turbocity.com. I would be suprised if your turbo was already shot, and since you have the tapped pan I really don't know what to tell you. Maybe they did a crappy job of rebuilding it, I don't know.

Right now, my advice to you is to go buy an oil catch can.

I can recommend this thread to you, as Jewbaru had a similar problem just recently:

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...+pouring+smoke

The one above sort of is the same situation you have. Just remember, nearly all turbo's are remanufactured, even ones that come in Ludespeed kits and what not, so yours could be a bad egg.

And this one:

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...fter+autocross

Oddly enough, both are Jewbaru's, don't mean to pick on him.


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Old 05-24-2002, 03:30 PM   #5
milkman
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Default Oil catch tank

Graham, I rotated the cartridge in along with the compressor housing.

I have an oil tank catch can on the way.

I remember seeing your turbo install post it looks really good, I like your cold air intake system a lot.
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Old 05-24-2002, 04:52 PM   #6
Graham
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Default

Alright, I did NOT rotate my cartridge, only the compressor housing. This could be the problem, though I'm no expert on the internals of a turbo. I would say one of your best bets at the moment would be to call Turbonetics and ask them if it is O.K. to rotate the cartridge along with the compressor side. You might have found your answer, but I'm not positive.

Thanks for the compliment, though I don't have a cold air intake on my car. You can check it out here though, and tell me if this is the one you are thinking of? I have what might be called a semi-cold air intake, but my intake is not in the fender like normal CAI's.

www.pbase.com/graham222
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Old 05-24-2002, 05:32 PM   #7
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It's ok to rotate the cartridge. Rotating the compressor housing is the same, you just loosen the bolts a bit so the compressor housing spins freely on the cartridge. Considering I've had it totally out of my car, I know the deal.

The turbo is three distinct parts, the turbine/compressor housing, and the cartridge. The housings are held onto the cartridge by "clamps." The bolts in the housings tighten down on the clamps, which hold the housings tight. The housings are sealed to the cartridge with thin little gaskets. Even with the cartridge completely seperated from the housings, it shouldn't leak at all, unless one of the seals is shot.
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Old 05-24-2002, 06:08 PM   #8
milkman
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Default ? well I'm at a loss then.

If it's OK to rotate the cartage then what went wrong?

I'm feeding the oil supply from the top of the engine from the hex bolt next to the crank case Y shaped breather tube.

I dry started it with the coil unhooked, to pre oil the turbo.

I checked the oil for contamination, and it's clear.

I cleaned all the parts before I installed them.

I took the housings off the turbo and the oil has a cream coffee color to it, like it has water in it and the turbo whipped it to a froth. I don't know where the water could come from. If there was water in the IC wouldn't it burn off before it reached the turbo? It's not coolant just plan water. (oil cooled only)

Did I get a bad rebuild? I called Innovative Turbo there closed.
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Old 05-24-2002, 06:14 PM   #9
milkman
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Default oil

I changed the oil when I did the install, Mobil 1 the new stuff 5w-30
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Old 05-24-2002, 06:30 PM   #10
milkman
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Default RRFPR

All right, the oil is not in the Y pipe header so it coming from the feed line.

What about my RRFPR I have a Vortech FPR. I installed it from the instruction from hear FPR

The line marked out on the unit is hooked up to the middle line under the intake manifold.

the unmarked in line is hooked up to the gray line top going into the fire wall.

Is that right?
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Old 05-24-2002, 06:37 PM   #11
Graham
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Default

Well, the intercooler is after the turboin cycle, so it would be hard for water to get to the turbo, unless it leaked down from it o something, but thats doubtfull.

Cream coffee color, you got me. I have no idea what would cause that, unless the 5w-30 Mobil oil is just completely not acceptable for this type of application. I just use regular weight oil in my car, 10w-30 synthetic, and it works fine. The different oils do have different qualities to them, such as different particle break up temperatures. Maybe that oil was not sufficient for the turbo and caused it to ruin the seals, I don't know.

Water cooler, not coolant? I'm not so sure about this, since coolant is specially made to aid in cooling, as regular water just doesn't do the job. Otherwise, wouldn't we just use water instead of mixing it with coolant. This could be another possibility of why your turbo faulted, improper cooling.


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Old 05-24-2002, 06:57 PM   #12
milkman
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Default coolant

The turbo is not water cooled just oil. Thats what got me. There no way for water to get into it unless it's in the oil. I didn't see any boost so there's no way I broke anything. The turbo is new only ran for maybe 1 mile.

Maybe it's my FPR hook up, I'm not sure I hook it up right. The link above directions are differant then another that I seen hear.

I could be dumping fuel into the oil, but it looks good and doesn't smell like it.

In any case I don't see how it would fail so fast seeing that I didn't even run boost thru it with the short drive I took.

I'm thinking it's a bad rebuild

Last edited by milkman; 05-24-2002 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 05-24-2002, 11:03 PM   #13
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Default

maybe im missing something...where exactly is the smoke coming out of? the turbo or the exhaust?

have you considereds taht you have blown your piston rings? check your compression.
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Old 05-25-2002, 01:14 AM   #14
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Default

First off I got a brand new T3/To4e from Innovative turbo . When I first installed in my car I realized that blue oil was coming out of my exhaust for the first time . My oil drain line is as straight as can be and went in the oil pan , so I knew it wasn't it. Then I remembered a trick that the rotary guys use on their big turbos.
A NITROUS PILL . I'm sure some have heard of it being used on turbo feed lines . Well I put a 40 shot pill right on the fitting that goes ontop of the turbo (it needed some machining) and it FIXED the problem completely. maybe try a 50 hot and see if it fixes it then go lower . they actually say not to use anything lower than 60 shot.
oh yeah , my car used to smoke very baly when idleing a rtaffic lights i.e when the oil was getting sluggish and not leaving the turbo fast enough .
zaidoun

Last edited by zaidallas; 05-25-2002 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 05-25-2002, 02:39 AM   #15
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basically limiting the amount of oil that goes to the turbo, I'd say call up innovative turbo, and ask them how much oil pressure the turbo seals can handle, then try to limit it as Zaidoun suggested. hopefully that will fix your problem, since your oil return is pointing straight down then that shouldn't be your problem.

eli
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Old 05-25-2002, 10:02 AM   #16
63Alpine
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Default

Assuming the smoke is coming from the exhaust, there are two things that will be the most likely cause.

1. Your line coming out of the turbo is not steep enough or has a part that is horizontal causing the oil to slow down when exiting the turbi

2. The ratio between the size of the inlet line and the outlet line from the turbo is wrong. I suggest that you call the turbo company and ask them for specific line sizes. They will say the inlet should be no bigger than X and the exit should be no smaller than X.

Either onw of these will cause a backup of oil in the turbo and it will start weeping through the seals.
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Old 05-25-2002, 10:25 AM   #17
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Default

How much smoke? and is it constantly? Cause my car smoked for the first dry when I installed my turbo.
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Old 05-25-2002, 05:37 PM   #18
milkman
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Default A hole lota smoke

I toasted my turbo. Thanks for all the help. I'm going to rebuild it again.

I had my RRFPR hooked up backwards, so I was dumping fuel into the oil. At least I didn't damage the engine. Well, that's what I think at least, I couldn't smell fuel in the oil and it's not noticeable contaminated.

I'm back to N/A without ever tasting any boost.
I
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Old 05-25-2002, 06:08 PM   #19
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Default

how will the RRFPR ever come in contact with anything related to the oil? I thought it was just tapped into the fuel lines with a vacuum line going to it. personally I'd call the company you had rebuild it, with it doing it from the start I'd imagine they should replace it no matter what, if they don't, then don't use them again.
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Old 05-26-2002, 12:47 AM   #20
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Notes on the ASR turbo. I have one, never installed but I got all sorts of notes to follow from Alan (ASR as$hole)

1. The return fitting on the turbo he uses MUST be facing straight down. If the oil builds up at all he said it will ruin the seals.

2. Sinthetic oil will seep through the seals. I don't know why.

3. You have to run the car AT IDEL for at least 10 min. without
revving the car at all. Just touch on the key and don't hit the gas.
If you rev it, and spin the turbo with the seals dry it is toast.
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Old 05-26-2002, 12:20 PM   #21
Graham
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What?

Where the hell did all of these weird install tips come from? If he's using a regular T3/T04 turbo, why should his install be any different than someone with a Ludespeed or FAT kit? I'm lost on this one.


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Old 05-26-2002, 01:03 PM   #22
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synthetic oil will seep through the seals??!??!!?

LOL

better get a turbo from somewhere else...
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Old 05-26-2002, 08:38 PM   #23
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Default Thanks

RRFPR~ I didn't have my fuel pressure gauge so this is speculation, but I believe that I stuck the injectors open due to sky high fuel pressure. Which in turn dump fuel into the cylinders washing the walls of the cylinders of oil and letting the fuel run in to the oil pan and true out the engine and turbo.

ASR turbo install~ The bushings on my turbo (not being a ball bearing type) are very susceptible to oil starvation, even for a short time without oil it will cook a turbo. I pre oiled the turbo by unhooking the coil and cranking the engine over for about 2 minuets. I did let it idle for at lest 15 minuets when I was checking for leaks and such.

Synthetic oil~ well that maybe true I don't know, but others run it and it's turbo approved.

Does anyone know if hooking up the RRFPR backwards will cause high fuel pressure?

I'm doing a compression text soon to see if I did any ring or cylinder wall damage but does anyone know what bad oil pump sound like thru the oil fill tube?
I don't mean to come across as unappreciative or anything, I am grateful all the input, keep it coming and thanks.
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