Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday July 23, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Custom Fabrication, Welding & Tools

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-23-2010, 11:47 AM   #1
Maverick7531
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 234291
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2002 WRX - '04 EJ257
w/ ECU & Fuel -'04 5MT

Default Oil Cooler Alternate Location??

I am thinking about taking an oil cooler and installing it somewhere other than off of a sandwich plate at the oil filter. I was wondering if anyone thought this idea was a good one, or a poor idea, and for what reason/s?

I have an oil cooler that would be easy to install in the down stream oil drain from the turbo. (That rubber hose that comes straight down out of the turbo.) It would be easy to just take that 3 1/2 inch hose out and run a line from the turbo(above) around to the cooler, then run the line back up, and connect it to the spout that it originally drains to.

The only thing i can think of that might hinder this from working is if there is enough oil(volume/pressure) coming out of the turbo to fill the oil cooler and make it effective. Just my thought because of how small the oil line in is!
Or, that it would be running down to the cooler, and then back up against gravity to the spout to go back down into the crank case!

By the way... Im in the process of doing an 05 STI swap(ecu/motor/wires/fuel pump) into my 02 WRX... so Im doing a lot of little things while the motor is out and is easily accessable! Point being that the turbo is a VF39!

SOMEONE, please shed some light on this for me!
Maverick7531 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2010, 12:18 PM   #2
06Limited
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 118112
Join Date: Jun 2006
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Clinton Twp., MI
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited
Aspen White

Default

Won't work, and not really a good idea. You want the turbo drain to be a smooth, unrestricted path. Not to mention, there isn't much pressure there. You want to install the oil cooler at a pressure point i.e. sandwich adapter. It really is the best place to put it for all practical purposes.

Hope this helps
06Limited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2010, 01:33 PM   #3
relliMmoT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 206931
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Wagon
6MT JBP 318WHP//300WTQ

Default

I always thought of doing this mod too. But my question isnt necessarily a question of WHERE, as your looking to get that filled. My question is, is it effective?
I am setting my suspension up for AutoX, my engine is already Stage4+++++, and I think in addition to that since there will be alot of rhomping on the car at somewhat low speeds a more effective oil cooling system is in order.
I was thinking of something along the lines of an off the shelf transmission fluid cooler from vato-zone or advance to keep things simple. like a 12x6" cooler mounted in front of the radiators.
Now really, is extra oil cooling necessary in my application? Im setting up for AutoX as mentioned, most my driving is 40miles/day highway commute in Louisiana where the lowest avg. weather is like 30F and highest is 110F.
So a very important application question im thinking about is if this cooler is all mounted up and seeing 30F (and the 70MPH wind chill!) will the oil be inefficiently cold?
Should the system be bypassed in winters?
What are yalls thoughts? Be sure to answer the OPs question too if you can as my question is so a hi-jack (but doesnt deserve its own thread as its along the lines of OP)
relliMmoT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2010, 03:41 PM   #4
Maverick7531
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 234291
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2002 WRX - '04 EJ257
w/ ECU & Fuel -'04 5MT

Default

Well... oil is most effective between 260 - 280F... but even in the winter the internal temp of oil still reaches high numbers. The oil does usually stay at a stable temp because of the liquid cooling system, and with that being said it generally doesnt get too hot, or too cold. I really don't think that even in very cold circumstances it will cool it too much, but I know that it will be able to pull the extra heat out of the motor when it gets too hot.

I have a auto trans oil cooler that I'm planning on using as the Engine oil cooler just like you were saying.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can anyone think of an alternate location to hook up oil lines for an oil cooler besides a sandwich filter location?

What do you guys think about hooking up an oil cooler from the oil line going in/right BEFORE it gets to the turbo to keep that as cool as possible... instead of right after it in the turbo where it drains back to the case???

Don't you think that once oil filled the cooler that the pressure would be the same as without it, and constant?
Maverick7531 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2010, 03:59 PM   #5
boost junkie
Top Scoob 009
 
Member#: 68273
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Vehicle:
2012 WRX
GD Race Car in progress

Default

Why are you so insistent on not using a sandwich adapter? As has already been stated, that is the most effective spot, and really the only viable option. Also, if the car will be used in cooler climates get a sandwich adapter with a built in thermostat.
boost junkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2010, 04:40 PM   #6
Maverick7531
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 234291
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2002 WRX - '04 EJ257
w/ ECU & Fuel -'04 5MT

Default

I am just trying to tap in to peoples thoughts-brainstorm a little... maybe learn something that I don't know. Thats why along with a general question I have specifics... because even if someone has an opinion about this, if they answer my specifics then I will be able to make an informed decison, not just take someone elses reasoning... I'll know for myself what I want to do!

Ya know what I mean? I don't just want to do something because everyone else does it... Yeah, sometimes it might be the best idea, but I want to think through all of my other options instead of just being told "No, Don't do it!"
Maverick7531 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2010, 12:10 AM   #7
relliMmoT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 206931
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Wagon
6MT JBP 318WHP//300WTQ

Default

I applaud you in questioning the norm. How else are things innovated when you dont question WHY something is done the way it usually is. Whether its been done that way by means of thousands of hours of research by engineers or whether its done that way because a bunch of car guys seem to think it would work best its good that your doing the thinking.
I am interested in actually testing the cooling when I hook mine up. I have temp probes and access to a meter to graph the cooling. Shouldnt be too hard to test both different potential tap-in spots. Ill post here my findings- wont be for a while now as the car is under the knife.
relliMmoT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2010, 08:57 PM   #8
Maverick7531
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 234291
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2002 WRX - '04 EJ257
w/ ECU & Fuel -'04 5MT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by relliMmoT View Post
I applaud you in questioning the norm. How else are things innovated when you dont question WHY something is done the way it usually is. Whether its been done that way by means of thousands of hours of research by engineers or whether its done that way because a bunch of car guys seem to think it would work best its good that your doing the thinking.
I am interested in actually testing the cooling when I hook mine up. I have temp probes and access to a meter to graph the cooling. Shouldnt be too hard to test both different potential tap-in spots. Ill post here my findings- wont be for a while now as the car is under the knife.
AWSOME!!!!

I was hoping for some advice or thoughts(not opinions,) but I wasn't expecting a science experiment!!!
That would be great to post info like this here-who knows... maybe the results will show that an oil cooler installed adjacent to the turbo is just as effective!?!

After thinking about this concept for a day or two, I've formed a hypothesis about one of the locations.
??? If the cooler was installed directly before it reaches the turbo it wouldn't cause any pressure issues because the oil is already being pumped up-hill towards the turbo. Therefore, once the cooler fills up, and has constant flow, it would be just the same as without it in the system. Also, I feel that it would cool the oil sufficiently before it reaches the turbo, hence, keeping the oil temps at a nominal temperature... allowing it to function as best as possible! ???

Also, I'm not so sure that a cooler would work after the turbo, as it could hold up the draining of the oil, and possibly hinder the effectiveness of the bearings!

?THOUGHTS ANYBODY? - Who's got a guess as to what the results will show?

Last edited by Maverick7531; 03-24-2010 at 09:29 PM.
Maverick7531 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2010, 05:58 PM   #9
Maverick7531
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 234291
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2002 WRX - '04 EJ257
w/ ECU & Fuel -'04 5MT

Default

[quote=originally posted by maverick7531>After thinking about this concept for a day or two, I've formed a hypothesis about one of the locations.
??? If the cooler was installed directly before it reaches the turbo it wouldn't cause any pressure issues because the oil is already being pumped up-hill towards the turbo.[\quote]

Note that I am not stating this as a fact... that it is a guess as to what would happen. Taking into account the very little amout of frictional loss that would occur because the system would constantly have substance in it, I think that the total pressure loss after the cooler would be 5% at most.
Now if the system had to fill up each time... like an intercooler receiving boost... than each time this happens it has a variable amount of pressure loss due to the "on/off boost" conditions. And intercoolers have a very low %age of pressure loss. Now with an oil cooler proposed as above, with a check valve before the cooler it would be constantly full, and have a constant amount of pressure to move the oil in it already(Hydrolics.)

And different oil's have different effective ranges...
Maverick7531 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2010, 12:34 AM   #10
redheat86
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 54479
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Yokohama/Shanghai/Mpls
Vehicle:
2006 STizzlllee
black

Default

I'm not going to get into this as I have limited knowledge.

But...You need to look at the volume of oil flowing at whatever point you are going to tap and route at and also at what point the oil is going back into the motor.

I have a strong inclination to say that the reason the oil filter/sandwich location is used is becuase that oil is directly from the pan/pump and going into the motor/heads/turbo..Its pointless to cool oil that is going to a pan as its going to be reheated as its compressed again through the pump.
redheat86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2010, 12:54 PM   #11
Big-E
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 123843
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Connecticut
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Sedan SGM
Let LED's light your way!

Default

Have you considered installing an aftermarket pan such as the Killer B Motorsport oil pan? It will allow for you to have a 6-quart total capacity inclusive of the oil in the oil filter?

More oil means more fluid to absorb and distribute the heat value from the engine?
Big-E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2010, 01:30 PM   #12
SomeoneWhoIsntMe
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 160814
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: h8mvmt.com
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
PSM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big-E View Post
Have you considered installing an aftermarket pan such as the Killer B Motorsport oil pan? It will allow for you to have a 6-quart total capacity inclusive of the oil in the oil filter?

More oil means more fluid to absorb and distribute the heat value from the engine?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that just mean it'll take longer for the oil to reach high temperatures, but sustained load will still get it equally as hot?
SomeoneWhoIsntMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2010, 08:45 PM   #13
Maverick7531
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 234291
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2002 WRX - '04 EJ257
w/ ECU & Fuel -'04 5MT

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeoneWhoIsntMe View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that just mean it'll take longer for the oil to reach high temperatures, but sustained load will still get it equally as hot?
Exactly correct... maybe an extra 5 mins of cooler temps... then guess what-IT TAKES LONGER TO GET THAT MUCH OIL COOL!!!

Either way, my thoughts are to come up with an effective oil cooling solution that I (or anybody really) can install with equipment found in thier own garages at NO COST!
I didn't mention that in my original post... but that wasn't part of my question... it's just my underlying hope/goal.
Maverick7531 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2010, 09:49 PM   #14
Maverick7531
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 234291
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2002 WRX - '04 EJ257
w/ ECU & Fuel -'04 5MT

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by redheat86 View Post
I'm not going to get into this as I have limited knowledge.

But...You need to look at the volume of oil flowing at whatever point you are going to tap and route at and also at what point the oil is going back into the motor.

I have a strong inclination to say that the reason the oil filter/sandwich location is used is becuase that oil is directly from the pan/pump and going into the motor/heads/turbo..Its pointless to cool oil that is going to a pan as its going to be reheated as its compressed again through the pump.
I know exactly what you are trying to propose... however, FLOW(of course some things control flow) is the only factor that will impact the effect of an oil cooler.
Whether or not you are cooling the oil by "X" at a point where it is Extremeley hot, or you cool it by "X" at a point that is near ambient(not that this happens,) you are still cooling the total oil with the same NET IMPACT.

ex: Lets say "X" above is equal to 40*(ability of oil cooler)

320* - 40* = 280* (high temp with oil coolers ability subtracted)
200* - 40* = 160* (Low temp with oil coolers ability subtracted)

This will be true as long as the rate of flow is equal in each situation.
However if you are cooling the oil right before a crutial structure(ie. turbo) then it's specific performance may be improved... but regaurdless, if the flow is equal, than the total temp of the oil will remain the same. BUT BUT BUT the productivity of the motor may change if the turbo would(for example) be cooled to optimal temp, and spin more freely(because the bearings are more properly lubricated,) allowing faster spooling and potentially more boost for a longer period of time(throuougt RPM range!)
Maverick7531 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2010, 10:48 PM   #15
gagliano
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 39541
Join Date: Jul 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Northern VA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX & 2004 STI
WR Blue

Default

OK, here's some advice. Don't waste your time with an oil cooler, it's not needed unless you are doing some endurance racing. I have an 02 WRX with an oil temp gauge and have NEVER in 8 yrs seen my oil temps get above 105C. The car was a daily driver, on the track, and now gets to stay in the garage until the nice weather.

Good luck with your project......
gagliano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2010, 11:03 PM   #16
amalgrover
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 183480
Join Date: Jun 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Valdosta, GA
Vehicle:
2011 Audi A3 Quattro
2009 Forester XT

Default

if you are really determined to relocate the oil cooler, why not just install an aftermarket setup? It still uses the oil filter sandwich adapter, but it just uses it to run lines to an oil cooler that is mounted at the front of the car. This would give you ultimate cooling capability, but...like everyone else said...why do you need to cool your oil that much. Your car will actually run worse if the oil is not hot enough. You will find yourself blowing all kinds of oil seals as well as have a lot more blow by in this scenerio...just keep the stock setup unless you are tracking the car on a regular basis.
amalgrover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2010, 12:43 AM   #17
Maverick7531
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 234291
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2002 WRX - '04 EJ257
w/ ECU & Fuel -'04 5MT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
if you are really determined to relocate the oil cooler, why not just install an aftermarket setup? It still uses the oil filter sandwich adapter, but it just uses it to run lines to an oil cooler that is mounted at the front of the car. This would give you ultimate cooling capability, but...like everyone else said...why do you need to cool your oil that much. Your car will actually run worse if the oil is not hot enough. You will find yourself blowing all kinds of oil seals as well as have a lot more blow by in this scenerio...just keep the stock setup unless you are tracking the car on a regular basis.
Ok... clearly people don't read the entire thread. If they did there would not be comments like the one above. PLEASE people read the treads entire content, not just a post or 2. If you don't you have no idea what your talking about.

I stated before that I don't want to spend money. That I am trying to get people to think, and come up with a possible alternative, and we need to stop having people come in and say the same thing over when I repeatedly say that I don't want(and more importantly-don't NEED) anyones opinions!

On a personal note about the oil cooler going on my personal car.... well, to be completely honest I drive like an A$$ Hole... not really but that is what a lot of peoples opinions are who don't know how to drive...
Honestly, my normal cruising speed is usually 90mph, and I always weave through traffic. I need the best possible protection in my daily dirver that I can get... Cuz I don't think there is a car out there that can handle me on a daily basis. Ive gone through 3 motors, and 2 trannys(now moved on to an 04 because it's stronger) in the last 2 years(90k miles)... YEAH-REALLY. Not that I race... cuz I really don't-I just get where I'm going fast. ---and that is with oil changes with Amsoil every 3k, gear oil changes every 15k with Lucas/heavy oil stabilizer, diff changes when tranny is changed, rad flushes regularly with redline supercoolant added always(prestone coolant/antifreeze-mostly water in summer).... point being I do a crazy amount of maintainance on my car-I just really need to keep things as cool, clean, and smooth as possible!

Not to mention that there is no difference in an aftermarket setup, and using an oil cooler from somthing else(which in theory is AFTER market.) Plus the cooler I have is probably better than most you can buy-It is 9"x11"x3/4" with 27 rows, and so many fins if I tried to spray paint it a different color it would ruin the cooler because it would clog it!
And who cares about buying AFTERMARKET stuff... I Make almost everything on my car - BOV/Clutch/Racing Radiator/and the Air filter in my custom intake - aside, every mod on my car was fabricated by myself! ( and before I blew my EJ205 I was running 285hp/305tq with NO TUNING and all bolt-on items that I created that were probably better than a lot of ones you can buy!)

Motto - Drive fast
Lesson to live by - Hesitation kills!!! Do it, and do it NOW! (and you better use you're god damned signal!)
2nd Lesson to live by - Stay out of my way... that one is for you to learn!

Last edited by Maverick7531; 03-25-2010 at 12:58 AM.
Maverick7531 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2010, 12:48 AM   #18
FourOnTheFloor65
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 106225
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Fairmont WV
Vehicle:
02 WRX STied PSM
03 L, 05 GT Legacy Wagons

Default

Not that it would be better than the sandwich adapter but you could always run it like how they run rear end coolers on some race cars. Weld two bungs into the oil pan, get a small electric pump, and pump the oil through a cooler and back into the pan. It would be easy to use an electronic thermo switch to turn the pump on and off, so it only runs when the temp is hot enough to need it. With a setup like this you wouldn't need to worry about the pressure loss due to the adapter, lines, and cooler that you get with a regular setup, since it is on a completely different circuit from the motors oiling system. The only problems I can see are you may need to add a few more baffles to the oil pan, and use some check valves in the hoses so when its not running the oil doesn't drain out of the lines and cooler. Since this would over fill your pan and could cause the pump to not operate correctly when it starts full of air.
FourOnTheFloor65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2010, 01:04 AM   #19
Maverick7531
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 234291
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2002 WRX - '04 EJ257
w/ ECU & Fuel -'04 5MT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FourOnTheFloor65 View Post
Not that it would be better than the sandwich adapter but you could always run it like how they run rear end coolers on some race cars. Weld two bungs into the oil pan, get a small electric pump, and pump the oil through a cooler and back into the pan. It would be easy to use an electronic thermo switch to turn the pump on and off, so it only runs when the temp is hot enough to need it. With a setup like this you wouldn't need to worry about the pressure loss due to the adapter, lines, and cooler that you get with a regular setup, since it is on a completely different circuit from the motors oiling system. The only problems I can see are you may need to add a few more baffles to the oil pan, and use some check valves in the hoses so when its not running the oil doesn't drain out of the lines and cooler. Since this would over fill your pan and could cause the pump to not operate correctly when it starts full of air.
SEE... this is what I'm talking about
Now even though it is somewhat off suggested topic, it is still in line with exactly what this discussion is about!
Great Idea, However the ease of installation is not as simple as what I am trying to suggest. Although if you did hook up lines to the pan, It would not be hard to wire an electric pump with a toggle swith and a separate Oil temp sensor/gauge to know when to turn it on. And you would definitely need to run one way valves in the unless the pump that you were using sealed itself when it was off!
Maverick7531 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2010, 01:17 AM   #20
amalgrover
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 183480
Join Date: Jun 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Valdosta, GA
Vehicle:
2011 Audi A3 Quattro
2009 Forester XT

Default

yes...but this goes back to what everyone else has been saying...How is this setup any better than the stock setup? Really, with a setup like this, all you have done is relocate the factory cooler. The design you are talking about here uses the same concept as the factory cooler. The stock one just uses the thermostat for the radiator as its "on/off" so to speak. The thing is, all the time and effort spent making something like this isn't going to net you any significant gains in street driving. Not only that, but you are adding an electric pump into the mix. How often do you think fuel pumps go bad? How often do you think solenoids don't work properly? Now you are talking about adding this risk into your oil system. You had better come up with some kind of fail safe while your at it...if the pump fails or the solenoid fails in the wrong position, you will have yet another motor that is going to bite the dust.
amalgrover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2010, 12:05 PM   #21
Maverick7531
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 234291
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2002 WRX - '04 EJ257
w/ ECU & Fuel -'04 5MT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
yes...but this goes back to what everyone else has been saying...How is this setup any better than the stock setup? Really, with a setup like this, all you have done is relocate the factory cooler. The design you are talking about here uses the same concept as the factory cooler. The stock one just uses the thermostat for the radiator as its "on/off" so to speak. The thing is, all the time and effort spent making something like this isn't going to net you any significant gains in street driving. Not only that, but you are adding an electric pump into the mix. How often do you think fuel pumps go bad? How often do you think solenoids don't work properly? Now you are talking about adding this risk into your oil system. You had better come up with some kind of fail safe while your at it...if the pump fails or the solenoid fails in the wrong position, you will have yet another motor that is going to bite the dust.
But there is no factory cooler that runs a oil to air radiator... however I do know what you are trying to say about a fail-safe.
I however am not really interested in that idea myself, but good thinking.
Maverick7531 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2010, 12:19 PM   #22
Maverick7531
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 234291
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2002 WRX - '04 EJ257
w/ ECU & Fuel -'04 5MT

Question

WOW... 1.7GALLONS / Minute! That is an enormous amount of flow!

In a Walboro 255 Litre/Hour fuel pump there is a lot of flow, but in comparison:
There is 3.8L in a gallon, so...
1.7 x 3.8 = 6.46
6.46 x 60 (mins in an hour) = 387.6Litres/Hour!!!
To be honest, that much flow in cooler that would just keep circulating the oil through the pan which is somewhat of an isolated location because the rate of circulation would be faster than the circulation through the motor's oil system, therefore it would be cooling the oil faster than it could heat up causing it to be cooled too drastically! Unless of course a switch/thermostat was routed in line... then this would be a very quick and effective oil cooling system!
But, completely unnecessarily rapid. Flow rates at half of that magnitude or even less would be sufficient!

Last edited by Maverick7531; 03-25-2010 at 12:25 PM.
Maverick7531 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2010, 08:09 AM   #23
relliMmoT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 206931
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Wagon
6MT JBP 318WHP//300WTQ

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick7531 View Post
=It would not be hard to wire an electric pump with a toggle swith and a separate Oil temp sensor/gauge to know when to turn it on
Or take out the guesswork like he said and use an thermo switch. Just like a thermostat it would switch when the oil temp reached a certain degree and viola current flowing to the relay powering the pump. You could EASILY wire in a switch as well as the automatic thermo turn-on too.
I love this idea actually, all of it. Necessary or not its a fun project and has an extremely low chance of catastrophic failure in that it is not acutally tied to your factory oil system! Two tubes off fittings placed on the oil pan, to and from the pump and radiator.
A really quick search turned
Amazon.com: DC 12V 6.5L (1.7gal/m) CPU Cooling HHO submersible Water/oil Pump: Sports & OutdoorsAmazon.com: DC 12V 6.5L (1.7gal/m) CPU Cooling HHO submersible Water/oil Pump: Sports & Outdoors
this up. Whether or not 1.7gal/min is sufficient is beyond me but its cheap and weighs under a pound. Im sure better would be found if someone gets serious about trying this but hey it took a minute on google
If you dont want to drill your oil pan you could even hook it up to suck oil from a fitting you replace the drain plug with (still removable of course) and you could have the oil re-enter the system tapped @ the tubing leading to the oil filter.

But to those who have an oil temp gauge and actually track/beat on their cars: What does your temp reach out of the norm and for how long?
Im now thinking about going to Harbor Freight and picking up one of their $20 automotive oil temp gauge/sensor kits to see for myself. No hard feelings if its not necessary because its only a $20 kit...
relliMmoT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2010, 06:20 PM   #24
FourOnTheFloor65
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 106225
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Fairmont WV
Vehicle:
02 WRX STied PSM
03 L, 05 GT Legacy Wagons

Default

There are some problems I see with running the cooler in the turbo oil feed line. They stem from the fact that there simply isn't very much flow there. If you run a cooler that is fairly large, the velocity will slow down a lot and the oil will spend a lot of time in the cooler, which will drop it's temperature a lot. It could lower the temp enough so that it is below the point where oil isn't as effective. This could cause long term problems with the bearings in the turbo, since it is like your turbo is running cold start temperature oil all the time. When this oil drains into the pan it will still be cooler than the oil in the pan. When it mixes the average oil temp will drop. If you use a small cooler so that the oil isn't cooled as drastically, this will not cause problems with the bearings, but less heat is removed from the system, and this won't drop the overall oil temp that much. Also adding a cooler here is going to create another restriction (pressure loss) in that branch of the oiling system. So you will get even less flow through it than before the cooler was installed. Which means less flow through your turbo. I don't feel like sitting down and calculating all of this. If you want to you can, it's your project. This may seem to you like a really good, new idea. It probably isn't new. I'm sure many people have thought about this before, and there are many reasons that it is not used. This seems like a bad idea to me. Look at pretty much every oil cooling system, ever. They all flow a large flow rate of fluid at high pressure and high velocity, where the average temperature drop across the cooler isn't very much.

If your main concern was dropping the oil temps that the turbo sees, then adding a small cooler here would be a great idea. But you seem to be concerned with dropping the average oil temp in the motor. In order to size the cooler large enough to do this it is going to cause worse (more expensive to fix) problems.

The reason that most oil coolers get flow from the filter is that 100% of the oil flowing through the motor's countless oiling branches is flowing through the oil filter. So 100% of the oil flows through the cooler. It does so at a fairly high velocity and doesn't stay in the cooler very long. This in turn doesn't drop the oil temp very much, but since all the oil in the motor is flowing through it, the average oil temp drops a significant amount. And it isn't dropping the temp of a portion of the oil out of it's effective range. Basically, it's better to cool 100% of the oil 2 degrees than 2% of the oil 100 degrees.


In my opinion the best way for most cars to cool oil is to have a large finned aluminum oil pan. There is no added pressure loss, and no added complication to the system. This doesn't work so well with Subaru motors because of the exhaust being right there. That is why I suggested the extra pump setup.
FourOnTheFloor65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2010, 09:22 PM   #25
Maverick7531
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 234291
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2002 WRX - '04 EJ257
w/ ECU & Fuel -'04 5MT

Lightbulb

I hear what you are saying... not saying you are wrong either. Definitely going to consider those possibilities. However, (I could be wrong) if i would run an oil line out of the block, directly to an oil cooler (its not too small, and not too big,) with a check valve right after it leaves the block... and I primed the lines/cooler so it always contained oil than the pressure wouldn't drop signifigantly because it is being pushed through at a certain rate-so it would have to push through the cooler at the same rate.

Earlier today I was studying my engine(the blown 2.0---I don't know if the EJ257 I am getting has the same part about to be reviewed) and was reviewing the plumbing. In the front-right under the belt covers, but over the exhaust crossover- there is a line that runs out of the mounting area for the oil filter. This then travels over to the right> into the thermostat housing(lower radiator hose connect to block.) The solid metal oil line is about a foot long.
I started throwing the idea around in my head about removing that line, and instead connecting a line to one end(filter area,) running it to the oil cooler(which would be short and sweet because of the location,) and right back to the thermostat housing area! This is a main oil line, and with the oil coming right from the filter it would be a constant(100% capacity) source to feed the cooler without poorly effecting the oiling system.
I can't think of any reason replacing this line with an oil cooler assembly could really negatively impact the system!?!... Unless that line doesn't do what I think it does....

Does anyone have any ideas about an oil cooler being interjected there?

Last edited by Maverick7531; 03-26-2010 at 09:30 PM.
Maverick7531 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Oil Cooler Location and Need for Oil Cooled Only Turbos dug-e-fresh Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 7 10-19-2004 06:51 PM
oil cooler location, too high? vile Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 6 07-09-2003 10:27 PM
Oil cooler/remote filter mounting locations? kidatari Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain 0 03-29-2003 03:36 AM
Where are my oil cooler and trans cooler located at? Hit Man X Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 3 10-28-2002 09:40 AM
oil cooler mounting location newbie sewbie Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 12 06-09-2002 09:43 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.