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Old 06-14-2002, 08:52 PM   #1
milkman
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Default blowing oil true a turbo?

OK, I've installed, then removed a turbo kit from my car. I took it off because I had a lot of smoke. (new turbo had it on for less then a mile)
I sent my turbo in to have it looked at, but they told me every thing is good.

So, hears my?s, The 2 ways this can happen is 1 my oil return line is to small or 2 my crank case pressure is to high.

1 my oil line, I think is fine.

2 must be this so, I had my right& left breather hoses unhooked, that should be OK but the PCV was hooked up just like OEM could this be it? If so should I run it thru my oil catch can? Thanks
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Old 06-14-2002, 09:32 PM   #2
Eric SS
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swap and N20. gone. : (

Default

If your crankcase pressure is to high, you have damaged your piston rings and are screwed.

Eric
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Old 06-14-2002, 09:50 PM   #3
Andrew
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congrats, it sounds like you have my problem....blown piston rings


do a compression test. the last time i did mine it was 125psi for #1 and 120 for 2,3,4 (2,3,4 left the tester with oil on it ). im in the middle of building up the engine now.
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Old 06-14-2002, 10:07 PM   #4
Hojai
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Default

actually my car also had a lot of smoke too but the mechanic checked the plugs for me and he said there is no carbon build up so that the engine is fine and my oil catch can doesn't catch any oil; therefore he checked the turbo and finally he found out that the exhaust side was leaking oil. Finally, i sent the turbo back for rebuild.
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Old 06-14-2002, 11:20 PM   #5
kaos200
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Default

try retouting your Return line more smoothly, no sharp bends or kinks. Also the line must go to the top of the pan, no crap banjo fittings!

Quote:
Originally posted by Imprezinator
If your crankcase pressure is to high, you have damaged your piston rings and are screwed.

Eric
Im sure you're correct, but can you explain how so?
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Old 06-14-2002, 11:23 PM   #6
T-WRX450
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Default The oil return line?

Where is your oil return line going to? If the line is below the oil level in the pan, has to go up or is kinked, the oil backs up and the oil becomes pressurized causing it go past the seal into your exhaust housing on the turbo thus smoking. I have seen many oil pan returns cause this problem. You may try looking at this before sending your turbo in for the rebuild.

Troy
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Old 06-15-2002, 10:19 AM   #7
63Alpine
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Default

He stated in his post that he has already had his turbo checked out and it is fine. It is almost certainly one of two things. A misrouted oil return line or a mismatch between the size of the oil feed line vs. the size of the oil return line.

Have you talked to the turbo manufacturer to get specs on the size of the feed and return lines? If there is a mismatch (the feed is too big and/or the return is too small) the oil will back up and will be pushed through the seals. I am running a Turbonetics turbo and they said that input has to be no bigger than X and the return has to be no smaller than X. I don't have the exact numbers but you get the idea.

Have you verified that the return line is as close to vertical as humanly possible? Remember this is a gravity feed only so give it a clear run.
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Old 06-15-2002, 12:55 PM   #8
zaidallas
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Default

GUYS DON'T scare this guy and tell him his piston rings are fried , he said it was on there for one mile , don't jump to the worst conclusions right away !
milkman : I also have a crappy turbonetics turbo that blows oil through the seals. First like said above , check the return line and feed line sizes and if these are correct then its your turbo . When I idle it blows lots of oil , when I turn the car on after letting it idle it'll also throw oil out of the exhaust.
As a matter of fact I just took off the turbo yesterday to figure out what to do next. The turbo when inspected looks fine , he turbine housing and full rear assembly must be removed to see the where the oil leaks and the buildup . Oil leakege throught the turbine housing has been a problem with turbochargers forever . I've checked my lines and they are of good sizes . My turbo is freshly rebuilt too. Also worth mentioning , turbonetics has a new seal design posted on their website called the "staggered seal" design that they say will stop this problem .
BTW do you have a water cooled turbo ? water cooled ones tend to burn oil through the seals more often.

zaidoun

Last edited by zaidallas; 06-15-2002 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 06-15-2002, 06:09 PM   #9
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Thanks alot ZAIDALLAS,

You help me to find mi troble with mi turbonetic turbo, i send it to then and they will rebuild on the warrenty.

Thanks
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Old 06-15-2002, 06:18 PM   #10
milkman
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Default Thanks

OK, My engine is good, rings and all no problems there.

Oil is backing up thru the turbo, why I don't know.

The guy at Innovative Turbo Systems told me that the oil return line should be at lest 1/2" a # 10 I think. My line is NOT 1/2" I/D. I have 1/2" O/D braided steel return line which is just over 1/4" I/D and a 1/4" O/D feed line that has an I/D about half the return size.

I bought this ASR kit used, I had the turbo rebuilt and the turbine and shaft replaced. I talked to the guy who had it be and he didn't have a problem with oil going thru the turbo (he's a good guy and wouldn't misled me) he toasted his engine, in fact I pulled one of his rod bolts out of the turbo.

As for the oil return line routing, I have the oil pan tapped with the oil tube draining right on to the upper baffle, and the return line sloped at a 45`in to the oil tube tap.

The more I think about it, I believe it must be the return line size.

It's just an oil cooled turbo no water.
Thanks
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Old 06-16-2002, 12:32 AM   #11
zaidallas
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Default

JST : did you make sure that your return line is large enough or not crimped ? I didn't mean to say that if your turbo is blowing smoke then it must be the turbo itself , a too large feed or too small return with a bad angle could cause that . So first make sure that your setup is correct . Just trying to save you time .
zaidoun
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Old 06-16-2002, 11:13 PM   #12
milkman
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Default Oil level in the oil pan?

If my oil return in to the pan is at the upper baffle level, is it under the oil level in the pan? Does any one know how high the oil is in the pan (when running and stopped)? thanks
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Old 06-17-2002, 09:59 AM   #13
63Alpine
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The size of your return line is almost certainly the problem here. It is a cheap fix to bump up the size and see if your problem goes away.
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Old 06-17-2002, 10:48 PM   #14
T-WRX450
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Default

Hey Milkman,
The return above the baffle level is high enough to be out of the main oil level. Where is your oil supply coming from and how large is the supply line? Zaidallas has a good point because if you have a large line under enough pressure a half inch I/D line won't be able to keep up either. Maybe pay a visit to Turbonetics web site to call or email them for more info.

http://64.225.76.178/main.htm

Troy
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Old 06-22-2002, 11:55 PM   #15
kaos200
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by kaos200

Quote:
Posted by ImprezinatorIf your crankcase pressure is to high, you have damaged your piston rings and are screwed.
Im sure you're correct, but can you explain how so?
??
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Old 06-23-2002, 03:56 PM   #16
milkman
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Default still smoking

Well, I upped the return line size and it's still smoking, just not as much.

I'm thinking of putting a restricter in the feed line, what you think.

Dose any one know where to get something like that for A/N fitting?

Thanks
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Old 06-23-2002, 04:26 PM   #17
zaidallas
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Default

milkman : coming to think of it again , I don't think the restrictor is a good permanent fix , rotary guys use them because their cars have very high oil pressure , I used it and it seemed to work for a while with no boost (I was breaking in the engine) but once I started putting boost , the burning came back . From what I understand is once you get oil past the seals of the turbo (it actually looks like a car piston) the damage is done and the seals have to be redone . I put a 40 shot nitrous pill in the turbo fitting and it needed some filing down first .
I DON'T recommend this anymore especially since it seems that the oil will still burn but maybe a bit less. too small of a shot can burn your turbo really fast , every turbo reacts different to this mod . If you attempt this , its pretty easy to do and I can take a picture of the fitting for you with the nitrous pill in there , but please do so at your own risk .
zaidoun
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Old 06-23-2002, 04:57 PM   #18
milkman
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Default ?

What should I do?

There's no reason I can see the would cause this.

My return line is over 3/4",the feed line is a #4, the hoses are clear, the pan is tapped and returning oil on top of the upper baffle and the turbo oil return port is facing down.

The turbo sits tilted back a little.

This thing is blowing smoke all the time even under vacuum.

I didn't have any smoke when I was N/A and the first time I took the turbo off the smoke problem stopped.

What about if I put some cheese cloth over the dip stick (with the dip stick removed) to vent any pressure in the pan, just to see if it's a pressure problem?

Edit for spelling
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Old 06-23-2002, 06:18 PM   #19
milkman
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Default Under Pressure

Well, I did that dip stick thing and it worked,no new oil (still burning off the old oil in the pipes.)

I guess I need to hook up my catch can and run it thru the intake pre-turbo, that should pull even more air out of the crank case.

I hope I've have this problem beat. Thanks for all the help.

I'm feeling better now. Now I need to put on my TMIC brackets, hook up my catch can, get the right waste gate spring and receive my fuel pressure gauge that I ordered 3 month a go and I can take this thing out for a real drive.

Thanks for all the help.

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Old 06-25-2002, 01:26 PM   #20
63Alpine
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Glad this all worked out. We now have another thing to check when people run in to this problem. I never ran into this as I installed the catch can along with the turbo and intercooler.
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Old 06-25-2002, 06:29 PM   #21
milkman
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Default

Well, I plumb the catch can into the intake and it's working good, but now I have to find out why my A/F gauge is going haywire (man, I need my fuel pressure gauge)

I think it's either fowled buy oil or the stock ECU is having a hard time with my fuel pump.
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