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Old 06-18-2002, 02:41 PM   #1
racer25rs
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Default EJ20T swap or Turbo?

Hello,

I am currently debating eather to have a engine swap done to my EJ25 or just turboing it. My questions is what is the advatages and disadvatages of doing one over the other?

I am hoping to swap an EJ20t engine, but are there better engines like the legacys, US WRX, JDM WRX, or old STi's? I would prefer the US WRX engine because when something happens to it, I can find the parts much easyer than the STi or the JDM engines.

If I was to do turbo, I would probably go with the Vishnu turbo kit or the ludespeed. The kits (well the ludespeed) itself are cheaper than an engine, but if I was to turbo I would want to do it right with the proper engine managemet making sure they dont mess up, but wouldn't all of the extra parts add up just as much as the swap?

Finally the Power issue. If I choose to do eather one of the options, which one would have the most HP, and which one would be reilable HP gains? Doing eather one of this means I would not have much money left for further upgrades for a few years. I am thinking the US WRX engine would be the safest route.

So, what do you guys think? I did a search and couldn't really find much on a topic like this. If you can find a link to a similar topic, please post. Thanks!
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Old 06-18-2002, 04:05 PM   #2
wcbjr
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http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=185230

It's the top post in this forum. That should help. But you said it right, there is not a great way to answer your questions. Read, read, and, uh, read.
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Old 06-18-2002, 04:46 PM   #3
cRayZee
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advantages and disadvantages

hmmm...it would depend on how much power you're looking for and what kind of power. The ej25 is capable of more low end torque than the ej20 but you'll probably lose your transmission faster this way.

Looks like the ej20 swaps are getting pretty popular too, plus it'll be smog legal (A big PLUS in cali).

When you're asking for big power, reliability is gonna be a problem either way with the ej25 or the ej20, and it'll probably come down to which engine behavior would you prefer (if you have the money to do either mod -- engine swap or ej25 turbo)

-vic
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Old 06-18-2002, 06:52 PM   #4
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I went through the same dilema as you are going through. The route I'm taking for my MY00 Legacy GT is the build up of the USDM EJ25.

The main reasons I chose for going this route is:
1) I didn't like the ratios of the WRX tranmission
2) Off boost torque of the 2.0 doesn't come close to the 2.5L

Number 3 is probably the most important reason.

3) I live really close to the best tuner in Canada (www.japanese-auto.com) and he wants to use my engine as a model. A complete EJ25 buildup with low compression pistons, stand alone Autronic Engine Management system, Maxim Works turbo headers, intercooler, etc. etc. etc. for less than what it cost me for the WRX powertrain that I'm trying to get rid of.

Anyways, I hope I haven't swayed you away from a swap, cause I have a complete WRX engine and tranny, drive shaft, etc. etc. etc. for sale.

On another note, the WRX starts at 227 HP and has proven reliable in hp ranged eclipsing 300 Hp.

WRX engine sale link: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=202451
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Old 06-18-2002, 07:26 PM   #5
racer25rs
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Thanks guys for all of your help, I guess I have lots of reading to do . I have roughly 5-6k to spend on one of these upgrade.

PS. I couldn't find how much the Vishnu kit cost. I heard some great prases about that kit and If I was to do turbo, I rather use that kit rather than ludespeed.
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Old 06-18-2002, 08:46 PM   #6
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we have actually done four tubo installs (ludespeed) and four USDM swaps (3 rs's and one OBS)

First and formost you do NOT loose torque by doing a ej20 swap. You loose torque by swapping out the GC tranny for the GD one. The torque is all in the gearing. YOU can keep your stock tranny and use the EJ20 and everything will be ok.

Which has more POWER? better question... How much money are you going to dump into this? IMHO the ej20 has more. there will those that disagree. but oh well.

if you do the swap you will be able to drive away and have the car be smooth from the get go. if you know how and do all the work yourself then plan on spending about 5k for the main componets and then 400-800 for a clutch/flywheel. Then you need to find someone to install it

If you do the turbo kit (2.5-3k) , 1.4k for a link and injectors for $500, fuel pump $200, and 400-800 for a clutch/flywheel combo then you will be able to run somewhat smoothly. Then you still need someone to install and tune it

Bottom line: you want to tinker with your car? then go Turbo kit
you want to drive your car more and worry less about the little things that might not be just right...then go swap.

Like I said I have done both to several cars. some people just wanna drive the dam thing. Others like to be under the hood (engineers).
I frequently see turbo guys becoming disenchanted with their cars because SOMETHING is not right. However, when they fix it...they turn into gitty little girls until something else goes wrong, lol.
Chris
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Old 06-18-2002, 09:17 PM   #7
Hondaslayer
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Go the swap route I will be buying an STi VerIII TypeR front clip to start mine off.
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Old 06-18-2002, 10:40 PM   #8
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Listen to christoph, he has some good points there.

Buy my EJ20T from a 2002 WRX with only 5K miles on it. Make an offer, who knows, it may just work out.

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Old 06-19-2002, 01:23 AM   #9
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What chistopher said. I am aming for the reliable smooth ride and worry less about it.
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Old 06-19-2002, 04:33 AM   #10
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Supercharger.. <cough, cough>
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Old 06-19-2002, 02:06 PM   #11
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My RS-t Cohorts sometimes hate me cause I sway people to the "dark side"

It is not that I don't like tweeking and tuning. I do. I just get tired of it! I mean when people roll over the house and say "hey let's cruise" and I have to go under the hood for a simple fixes that ends up being a few hours...I mean gee, what ever happed to all my driving fun?

The RS-T feels way more "torquey" and the butt o meter says "man we are flying" until you hit fifth and there is just no where else to go (engine wise).
then on the conversion side it's torqey but not like the RS-T ...it's smooth. You'll find youself saying...when is thing gonna start to top out? That thing just doesn't quit.
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Old 06-19-2002, 08:05 PM   #12
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[chanting]Swap...swap...swap[/chanting]

Huge potential, probably less headaches. If you do a USDM WRX swap, there are countless aftermarket/replacement parts you can source easily...turbo kit for big power is more for the pioneering type, which may lead to greater $$$ spent.

An overseas engine swap is a little more adventuresome, probably not quite as much as a turbo kit...its just that you end up sourcing your fair share of parts from OZ, NZ, Japan, UK, etc. But, at the same time, it's kinda fun to have an exotic engine in your ride.
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Old 06-19-2002, 08:09 PM   #13
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Of course you can do either of the two and leave your transmission as toothless as a 70yr old crack whore.
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Old 06-23-2002, 01:54 AM   #14
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Have we made a decision yet? Hmmmmmmm
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Old 06-23-2002, 02:04 AM   #15
Eric SS
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Why do people even consider the EJ20 when you can do a BRAND NEW EJ22T with your EJ25 heads for only around $1250!
That's what I would do..oh wait, I did!

Eric
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Old 06-23-2002, 02:33 AM   #16
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Imprezinator :I am wondering, what is the complete cost breakdown on your conversion...ej22t? That includes ALL parts and ALL labor.
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Old 06-23-2002, 02:37 AM   #17
Eric SS
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Quote:
Originally posted by christoph1371
Imprezinator :I am wondering, what is the complete cost breakdown on your conversion...ej22t? That includes ALL parts and ALL labor.
I did all the labor myself so the complete breakdown is:

NEW EJ22T short block from subaruparts.com: $1250

New EJ22T headgaskets and new headbolts: $95.00

Various little things like silicone and brakeclean: $15.00

Turning up the boost safely and killing WRX's: priceless

Eric
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Old 06-23-2002, 02:43 AM   #18
christoph1371
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how many hours of labor?
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Old 06-23-2002, 02:52 AM   #19
Eric SS
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Quote:
Originally posted by christoph1371
how many hours of labor?
It is a full weekend job but I tell you, pulling a Subaru engine is easier than any engine i have ever pulled!

Eric
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Old 06-23-2002, 03:15 AM   #20
christoph1371
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I'll second that.
the only crap year is the '93. Don't ever get invloved with that year.
It takes me about 40 hours to do a full EJ20 swap. that includes pulling the stock motor, exhaust, cross member, interior, fuel pump and then installing all that wrx stuff plus re-wiring (soldering about 30 wires).
These cars are pretty much like VW's...they are all the same...pretty much.
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Old 06-23-2002, 10:08 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Imprezinator


I did all the labor myself so the complete breakdown is:

NEW EJ22T short block from subaruparts.com: $1250

New EJ22T headgaskets and new headbolts: $95.00

Various little things like silicone and brakeclean: $15.00

Turning up the boost safely and killing WRX's: priceless

Eric
Brilliant, thanks Eric! I smell my 2003 project. Does it matter which RS heads you use? I'd need to source them separately, since I don't have an RS laying around and I may as well get the ideal heads...are Phase II's best (ie, '00-02), or does it not matter?

Thanks.

Mark
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Old 06-23-2002, 05:50 PM   #22
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Personally I'd say the Silvia is the easiest to strip down. A friend and I can pull a motor, transmission, ECU, wiring harness, front clip off of a Silvia in an hour. Mostly from alot of practice though.
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