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Old 10-11-2010, 12:24 PM   #1
girodisc
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 177674
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: B-ham WA
Default Help, car hates to start.

Hey all. I just finished up a turbo build/ swap in my Legacy and I am having some issues.

The car hates to start. It pops, it back fires through the intake but once I get it going it drives and idles fine.

Its a 2.0L wrx block on N/A DOHC heads. I am running a Hydra 2.17. I was told that I needed to run the WRX crank trigger and cam gears to run the direct fire coil pack system but Phil now tells me I don't have to. I know that the WRX timing belt setup uses an extra pulley (very small one by the tensioner) and my N/A do not have this pulley so I assuming that the N/A heads use a shorter belt. Could this be throwing my timing off. I am thinking just swapping back the RS Crank Trigger and Gears back on but I don't want to do all that work for nothing.

Does any one have any experience with this? I am also thinking it could be my hydra possibly so I am going to swap it out and see if that might change anything to eliminate that but if anyone can shed some light on this that could be great.

Johann @ Girodisc
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Old 10-11-2010, 04:23 PM   #2
hustleshark206
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Member#: 182227
Join Date: Jun 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: seattle, WA/ Jackson WY
Vehicle:
2000 MPS Built RS
1991 Leggy Turbo EJ22t

Default

I had an issue like this and it ended up being the harnesses from two of the coil packs were switched. It would have a hell of a time firing and make all kinds of popping noises when we tried starting it. Have you tried playing with your spark settings? Try and set it up for waste spark and see if that helps. Mine is now set up for direct fire but when we were first doing the initial tuning it would start and run better in waste spark configuration.

Also what coils are you using? I have EJ25D heads myself and I found that the WRX coil packs and plugs were the correct length for those heads. I initially had STI coils but they were too short and the spark had to arc an extra gap. See this thread.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1914500

I LOVE your car by the way! I saw it at WCSS and I was really impressed. You should post a picture of it here, maybe it would motivate people to help you more
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Old 10-11-2010, 05:13 PM   #3
girodisc
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Member#: 177674
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: B-ham WA
Default

Yeah the coilpacks are for sure for a WRX and I double checked the coilpacks were firing in the correct order. I havenít tried the wasted spark configuration yet though thatís a good idea. Once it turns over and starts running; it idles and drives great. I have a small boost leak somewhere but itís an easy fix. I am going to delete my EGR since I don't need it and its one more port on the intake mani I can plug up.

Itís weird when it tries to start. It backfires, pops and backfires into the intake mani. It has a funny sequence of like crank crank buda buda buda then stall. I donno. Called Phil at Element and he thinks it low voltage while cranking but I don't think so. Also he thinks my timing or fuel maps for cranking need some love. Both Dom and Phil say my crank triggers are okay so I guess I will leave them be for now.

I am going to plug my hydra into a buddies car and see how it starts in his car so I can at least rule out the ecu or wiring. I am going to have to pull my intake manifold to plug my EGR and replace my gaskets so I am going to do a continuity check on all the pigtails. I think I am going to swap plugs too. It really seems like itís a timing issue so it could be the tuning, my trigger system or the sensors or the wiring for them. Possibly the Hydra but I doubt it.

Lol heres pic of the car and the engine bay.




The Swap in question when it was about 80% finished



Johann @ Girodisc
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Old 10-11-2010, 05:39 PM   #4
hustleshark206
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 182227
Join Date: Jun 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: seattle, WA/ Jackson WY
Vehicle:
2000 MPS Built RS
1991 Leggy Turbo EJ22t

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Yeah I deleted my EGR as well and have no issues with cold start. I am using the EJ25D cam sensor and pullies with a EJ251 crank gear and sensor. Dom tuned it via my Haltech ECU. I would start by verifying your firing order and then switch to waste spark and see if it makes a difference. Plugging in the ECU into another car is a good idea as well.

Good Luck!
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:31 PM   #5
Junior2JZ
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Member#: 64908
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Tuning 8/9sec Subies @ P&L
Vehicle:
10.8 XT+10.0@143 GR+
9.0@170mph GTR

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I had the same issue with a hydra at one point. The map and the ecu had 2 different versions of the software/firmware. Example : I was tuning on 2.15 and the ecu was 2.17
make sure you have matching firmware/software

Jr
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Old 10-12-2010, 01:08 PM   #6
girodisc
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Location: B-ham WA
Default

Yeah I called Hydra and they said I had a 2.17 so that’s what I put in for a map.

New confusion. I my roommate has a 98 Forester with a WRX swap and a 2.17 Hydra. SO I put my hydra in his car and it fired right up and held a 500rpm idle like nothing. I put his ECU in my car and it fired right up but wouldn't idle. But when I put my ecu back in my car it starts like crap again. It’s very strange so I am cross-referencing the maps so figure out if there are some differences.
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