HKS Fuel Cut Defender:

adamsrs · 07-11-2002, 04:22 PM

As you know i have a 2000 2.5 RS with an EJ22t shortblock and 2.5 SOHC heads....running a stock ECU with a JC sports Torque Chip 2....as of right now the JC TC2 is controlling my Fuel cut using a voltage clamp, but in a few weeks i am going to install the Greddy E-Manage and i will be removing my JC sports TC 2 at that time.......with the HKS FCD will it still controll my fuel cut by tricking the MAP sensor? Or will i have to get something else? Any info would be GREATLY appreciated! thanks! How hard is it to install also!
adamsrs

8Complex · 07-11-2002, 05:07 PM

That GReddy unit only controls fuel, right? Does it do so by manipulating the load (MAP voltage)? If so, then you'll still need to worry about timing. If it doesn't control it by altering the load, then you may need to run a second MAP sensor to that unit to control just the fueling since the stock one will only read to just barely over atmospheric pressure. How it'll alter fuel without playing with the load of the engine, I have no idea...

FCD's are nothing more then voltage clamps, with a resistor built in to cut the voltage by percentages (depending on adjustment). *shrug*

adamsrs · 07-11-2002, 05:14 PM

The Greddy E-Manage controls Fuel and TIming, and comes with an optional second MAP sensor to controll the map on aftermarket turbo cars!

adamsrs

8Complex · 07-11-2002, 05:24 PM

Controls or alters to make your stock ECU control it? If it controls, you're good to go, if it alters, then you will most likely still need it.

Jewbaru · 07-11-2002, 06:02 PM

from the Greddy Site:

Quote:

e-Manage is an inexpensive programmable fuel management system that allows you to properly tune your factory fuel system, without having to change the entire factory ECU system to an expensive "stand-alone" unit. The e-Manage system is a universal "piggy-back" type unit, which taps into most factory ECU wiring and it still utilizes the existing sensors. Basic functions will allow the user to slightly alter factory injector duty-cycle(± 20% at 5 preset RPM points), by intercepting and altering airflow or MAP sensor signals. For VTEC cars you can adjust the VTEC shift point.
Additional features that are built into the system, but are only accessible though the use of our PC-Windows based "e-Manage Support Tool" communication software (Please see our Authorized GReddy Support Dealers for more information) are a 16x16 Airflow Adjustmemt Map, Larger Main Injector correction adjustment, Upgrade Air Flow Meter adjustment, Boost Limiter Cut, Anti-engine Stall, VTEC-fuel adjustment, Real-time Map Trace, Real-time Display, Real-time Communication, and basic Data-logging.

With the use of our "Optional Injector Harness" and the software, the unit has the ability to control an additional 16x16 Injector duty cycle Map and the Controls for adding up to 2 Addional Sub-injectors. If the "Optional Ignition Harrness" and the software is used the unit has the ability to control a 16x16 Ignition Timing Map. All of the above Maps can also be Map-traced in Real-time as well. If the factory range of Map or Airflow meter is surpassed, you can incorperate our "Optional GReddy Pressure Sensor and Pressue Harness" to set larger scales of ajustment.

jeffg · 07-11-2002, 08:28 PM

Have you had any luck getting the Ziener Diode? I think that is all you need. Nothing fancy, just the Diode.

Let me try and find the specs for what you need.

J

EDIT how about his?
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...=voltage+clamp

8Complex · 07-12-2002, 01:51 AM

It's an S-AFC! *shrug* Just look for engine management in regards to tuning with an S-AFC and you'll find out everything you need to know.

jeffg · 07-12-2002, 02:47 AM

8, the greddy Emanage is like an SAFC on crack. While it is modification of the stock ECU signals it does not do so by tricking the MAP sensor signal (it can in base form, but with the additional harnesses it does not). The injector harness actually lengthens and shortens the injector pulses directly.

You have a fairly adjustable 16x16 fuel map based on throttle postion and rpm.

and a timing 16x16 map based on rpm and MAP voltage. With the use of the additional presure sensor Adam is using he can wire in a 3 bar MAP and have adustment for boost.

adamsrs · 07-12-2002, 04:19 AM

So the Optional pressure sensor will not only read boost, but it will read nomal off boost pressure? Cool!!!!!!!!!! This means it doesnt tap into me MAP sensor at all?

adamsrs

yebokmj · 07-12-2002, 07:57 AM

I was considering going this route, is there anyone who has already done it on any year of car? Or anyone in addition to you?
Joshua

Z1 Performance · 07-12-2002, 05:38 PM

Wht I don't get about the GReddy is why go through the time/expense of getting it with all the additional harnesses needed, and then tryiong to find a tuner who knows it well enought to mapo it for you, when you could do a LINK2 so much easier? or better yet a TECII if the budget allows?

Granted either the LINK2 or TEC are more money, but they are so much more ecu that teh E-Manage and the knowledge base is already there to tune them on these cars...why reinvent the wheel?

And at the end of the day, it is just a more adjsutable SAFC..the SAFC actually adjsuts the IPW of the injector as well..by altering the MAF signal, it tells the computer it is richer or leaner than it actually is, casuing the ecu to respond with more or les fuel depending on if you are making + or - corrections with the SAFC. There are only 2 ways to control fuel...IPW (lengthen or shorten) and pressure). Pressure is the easy way...a nice RRAFPR., and every turbo RS should have this already. 2:1 if you are on stock injectors, 1:1 if upping the ante to 550's and the parrallel rails (we did ur own version of it on an RS and works GREAT)
adam
Z-1

jeffg · 07-13-2002, 01:06 PM

Adam,

While a full stand alone unit is very much the way to go, price is the big difference here. The greddy Emanage is not meant to compete with Link and TEC Ecu's. It is meant to compete with SAFC's and Field Fuel Contollers, and the price point make that clear. A unit that normally retails for $379 should not have to compete with a $1000 Link unit or a more expenisve Tec3. Just no the same ball park.

Sure if you can afford it, get a TEC or a Link.

Please there is the tuning part. Since the Emanage is modification of the stock fuel and timing map, it is easier for beginning tuners to set it up. I am sure I could pull off a base Tec map, but I would be nervous for like hte first 6 months.

It all comes down to what you need. Basic fuel and timing control and nothing else, get an Emanage, if you need more get a Link or a TEC.

Thats all, no real competetion.

J

Z1 Performance · 07-14-2002, 01:45 AM

I agreee, but the E Manage witht the optional sensors to do timing, etc,. bring the cost up ALOT.

Not to mention that the optional features whihc make it a halfway decne tpiece can only be tuned by an authorized dealer. At that point I think the LINK2 becomes the CLEAR winner, plus it is plug and play for the RS!

adam
Z-1 Performance
www.z1auto.com

KillerTHC · 07-14-2002, 01:57 AM

how much do dealer's charge to tune them? if you plan to mod your car (more i guess), it's gonna be a PITA to go to a shop everytime you want to get your car tuned.

Ethan · 07-14-2002, 03:49 AM

i saw the Emange system today for a little bit less then $200 and the software to go with it was right there too for another $90. Seem's pretty cheap.

adamsrs · 07-14-2002, 04:02 AM

No matter what i will go to a shop to have my car tuned because i have a MAC and not a PC......PLUS i dont trust myself to tune it!
adamsrs

HOK · 07-14-2002, 05:25 AM

mmm link2 is plug and play for RS? how is this... system...

HOK · 07-14-2002, 05:26 AM

how much too...? didn't see it on your page... Z1

inpreza kid · 07-14-2002, 09:39 AM

link2 plug and play? last time i checked there was no plug and play for 2.5RS. only wrx. the first link i think there was a plug and play version for the 99RS. not link 2 anyways.

i did some research on the e-manage. i agree with Z1. its not worth it. with ignition and fuel harness it brings the cost up. also it has to be tuned by a greddy dealer. IMO this is like the uni chip.

seven881 · 07-14-2002, 11:38 AM

It looks like AMR has the plug in play Link2 for 99-02 GC8's now, but it's an additional harness that'll plug in. At least you won't have to hack wires.

http://www.carmodifications.com/Link...ink-plugin.htm

HOK · 07-14-2002, 12:39 PM

mmm this is new right? who makes the plug and play harness? AMR or LINK? also how would the ecu see boost? going to research now...

jeffg · 07-14-2002, 03:52 PM

Adam,

retail for the optional wire harnesses to add functionality is $40 each. That is not a lot f money.

For a turbo car you are looking at

$279 +$120 = $399. Then if you are installing yourself you need the software $140

That is $539 for eveything you need.

Now Link prices, using WRX prices, since there is no Plug and Play for the RS.

$1250 for link, plus $70 for serial link

That is $1320, more than double the price of the entire greddy unit.

Again, I will stress that these are not competing products. There is no way the Emanage will compare the features and ability of any fully stand alone product.

to be more effective you would have to compare it against the SAFC+ITC+ some way to read boost pressure for your tuning.

retail for an SAFC is $419 and ITC is $399.

again you see the savings.

If what you need fits in this piggy back category, then the Greddy Emanage is another choice to consider.

J

scubaracer · 07-14-2002, 04:25 PM

FYI jeffg, at www.modacar.com you can get an s-afc and Itc for a little under $600.

just some extra info

jeffg · 07-14-2002, 10:17 PM

I was going purely off of suggested retail parts.

I saw a quote for an Emanage, with harnesses installed and tuned for $500.

So there are deals to be had anywhere.

J

EDIT: really nice site by the way, thanks for the link.

Chav · 07-15-2002, 02:07 AM

There IS a plug and play harness for the Link 2 for the gc8. Go to www.carmodifications.com and call them. They source the harness from a person here in the US that builds the harness. The harness simply plugs into the Link and plugs into the existing ECU harness.

-Chav

07-11-2002, 04:22 PM	#1
adamsrs Scooby Specialist Member#: 3768 Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Seattle, WA	HKS Fuel Cut Defender: As you know i have a 2000 2.5 RS with an EJ22t shortblock and 2.5 SOHC heads....running a stock ECU with a JC sports Torque Chip 2....as of right now the JC TC2 is controlling my Fuel cut using a voltage clamp, but in a few weeks i am going to install the Greddy E-Manage and i will be removing my JC sports TC 2 at that time.......with the HKS FCD will it still controll my fuel cut by tricking the MAP sensor? Or will i have to get something else? Any info would be GREATLY appreciated! thanks! How hard is it to install also! adamsrs

07-11-2002, 08:28 PM	#6
jeffg Scooby Guru Member#: 2958 Join Date: Nov 2000 Chapter/Region: NWIC Vehicle: 2001 WRX (GC8)	Have you had any luck getting the Ziener Diode? I think that is all you need. Nothing fancy, just the Diode. Let me try and find the specs for what you need. J EDIT how about his? http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...=voltage+clamp Last edited by jeffg; 07-11-2002 at 08:33 PM.

07-12-2002, 07:57 AM	#10
yebokmj Scooby Specialist Member#: 2213 Join Date: Aug 2000 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Raymond, NH USA Vehicle: 1995 Impreza w/EJ257 Brilliant Red	Thinking I was considering going this route, is there anyone who has already done it on any year of car? Or anyone in addition to you? Joshua

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07-11-2002, 05:07 PM	#2
8Complex Moderator Member#: 922 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Schaumburg, IL Vehicle: 04 FXT Red	That GReddy unit only controls fuel, right? Does it do so by manipulating the load (MAP voltage)? If so, then you'll still need to worry about timing. If it doesn't control it by altering the load, then you may need to run a second MAP sensor to that unit to control just the fueling since the stock one will only read to just barely over atmospheric pressure. How it'll alter fuel without playing with the load of the engine, I have no idea... FCD's are nothing more then voltage clamps, with a resistor built in to cut the voltage by percentages (depending on adjustment). shrug

07-11-2002, 05:14 PM	#3
adamsrs Scooby Specialist Member#: 3768 Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Seattle, WA	The Greddy E-Manage controls Fuel and TIming, and comes with an optional second MAP sensor to controll the map on aftermarket turbo cars! adamsrs

07-11-2002, 05:24 PM	#4
8Complex Moderator Member#: 922 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Schaumburg, IL Vehicle: 04 FXT Red	Controls or alters to make your stock ECU control it? If it controls, you're good to go, if it alters, then you will most likely still need it.

07-12-2002, 01:51 AM	#7
8Complex Moderator Member#: 922 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Schaumburg, IL Vehicle: 04 FXT Red	It's an S-AFC! shrug Just look for engine management in regards to tuning with an S-AFC and you'll find out everything you need to know.

07-12-2002, 02:47 AM	#8
jeffg Scooby Guru Member#: 2958 Join Date: Nov 2000 Chapter/Region: NWIC Vehicle: 2001 WRX (GC8)	8, the greddy Emanage is like an SAFC on crack. While it is modification of the stock ECU signals it does not do so by tricking the MAP sensor signal (it can in base form, but with the additional harnesses it does not). The injector harness actually lengthens and shortens the injector pulses directly. You have a fairly adjustable 16x16 fuel map based on throttle postion and rpm. and a timing 16x16 map based on rpm and MAP voltage. With the use of the additional presure sensor Adam is using he can wire in a 3 bar MAP and have adustment for boost.

07-12-2002, 04:19 AM	#9
adamsrs Scooby Specialist Member#: 3768 Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Seattle, WA	So the Optional pressure sensor will not only read boost, but it will read nomal off boost pressure? Cool!!!!!!!!!! This means it doesnt tap into me MAP sensor at all? adamsrs

07-12-2002, 05:38 PM	#11
Z1 Performance Former Vendor Member#: 9327 Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Z1Auto.com	Wht I don't get about the GReddy is why go through the time/expense of getting it with all the additional harnesses needed, and then tryiong to find a tuner who knows it well enought to mapo it for you, when you could do a LINK2 so much easier? or better yet a TECII if the budget allows? Granted either the LINK2 or TEC are more money, but they are so much more ecu that teh E-Manage and the knowledge base is already there to tune them on these cars...why reinvent the wheel? And at the end of the day, it is just a more adjsutable SAFC..the SAFC actually adjsuts the IPW of the injector as well..by altering the MAF signal, it tells the computer it is richer or leaner than it actually is, casuing the ecu to respond with more or les fuel depending on if you are making + or - corrections with the SAFC. There are only 2 ways to control fuel...IPW (lengthen or shorten) and pressure). Pressure is the easy way...a nice RRAFPR., and every turbo RS should have this already. 2:1 if you are on stock injectors, 1:1 if upping the ante to 550's and the parrallel rails (we did ur own version of it on an RS and works GREAT) adam Z-1

07-13-2002, 01:06 PM	#12
jeffg Scooby Guru Member#: 2958 Join Date: Nov 2000 Chapter/Region: NWIC Vehicle: 2001 WRX (GC8)	Adam, While a full stand alone unit is very much the way to go, price is the big difference here. The greddy Emanage is not meant to compete with Link and TEC Ecu's. It is meant to compete with SAFC's and Field Fuel Contollers, and the price point make that clear. A unit that normally retails for $379 should not have to compete with a $1000 Link unit or a more expenisve Tec3. Just no the same ball park. Sure if you can afford it, get a TEC or a Link. Please there is the tuning part. Since the Emanage is modification of the stock fuel and timing map, it is easier for beginning tuners to set it up. I am sure I could pull off a base Tec map, but I would be nervous for like hte first 6 months. It all comes down to what you need. Basic fuel and timing control and nothing else, get an Emanage, if you need more get a Link or a TEC. Thats all, no real competetion. J

07-14-2002, 01:45 AM	#13
Z1 Performance Former Vendor Member#: 9327 Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Z1Auto.com	I agreee, but the E Manage witht the optional sensors to do timing, etc,. bring the cost up ALOT. Not to mention that the optional features whihc make it a halfway decne tpiece can only be tuned by an authorized dealer. At that point I think the LINK2 becomes the CLEAR winner, plus it is plug and play for the RS! adam Z-1 Performance www.z1auto.com

07-14-2002, 01:57 AM	#14
KillerTHC Scooby Specialist Member#: 4942 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: Palo Alto, CA USA Vehicle: 01 SRP 2.5 RS-T Ludespeed Stage 3 Link'd	how much do dealer's charge to tune them? if you plan to mod your car (more i guess), it's gonna be a PITA to go to a shop everytime you want to get your car tuned.

07-14-2002, 03:49 AM	#15
Ethan NASIOC Supporter Member#: 246 Join Date: Sep 1999	i saw the Emange system today for a little bit less then $200 and the software to go with it was right there too for another $90. Seem's pretty cheap.

07-14-2002, 04:02 AM	#16
adamsrs Scooby Specialist Member#: 3768 Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Seattle, WA	No matter what i will go to a shop to have my car tuned because i have a MAC and not a PC......PLUS i dont trust myself to tune it! adamsrs

07-14-2002, 05:25 AM	#17
HOK Scooby Specialist Member#: 447 Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Oh Canada Vehicle: 1999 EJ22T222B&EVO Are we racing yet?	mmm link2 is plug and play for RS? how is this... system...

07-14-2002, 05:26 AM	#18
HOK Scooby Specialist Member#: 447 Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Oh Canada Vehicle: 1999 EJ22T222B&EVO Are we racing yet?	how much too...? didn't see it on your page... Z1

07-14-2002, 09:39 AM	#19
inpreza kid Scooby Specialist Member#: 3334 Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada	link2 plug and play? last time i checked there was no plug and play for 2.5RS. only wrx. the first link i think there was a plug and play version for the 99RS. not link 2 anyways. i did some research on the e-manage. i agree with Z1. its not worth it. with ignition and fuel harness it brings the cost up. also it has to be tuned by a greddy dealer. IMO this is like the uni chip.

07-14-2002, 11:38 AM	#20
seven881 Scooby Specialist Member#: 8828 Join Date: Jul 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: K-Town Vehicle: 01 BRP 2.2T Hybrid 10 VW Grocery Getter	It looks like AMR has the plug in play Link2 for 99-02 GC8's now, but it's an additional harness that'll plug in. At least you won't have to hack wires. http://www.carmodifications.com/Link...ink-plugin.htm

07-14-2002, 12:39 PM	#21
HOK Scooby Specialist Member#: 447 Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Oh Canada Vehicle: 1999 EJ22T222B&EVO Are we racing yet?	mmm this is new right? who makes the plug and play harness? AMR or LINK? also how would the ecu see boost? going to research now...

07-14-2002, 03:52 PM	#22
jeffg Scooby Guru Member#: 2958 Join Date: Nov 2000 Chapter/Region: NWIC Vehicle: 2001 WRX (GC8)	Adam, retail for the optional wire harnesses to add functionality is $40 each. That is not a lot f money. For a turbo car you are looking at $279 +$120 = $399. Then if you are installing yourself you need the software $140 That is $539 for eveything you need. Now Link prices, using WRX prices, since there is no Plug and Play for the RS. $1250 for link, plus $70 for serial link That is $1320, more than double the price of the entire greddy unit. Again, I will stress that these are not competing products. There is no way the Emanage will compare the features and ability of any fully stand alone product. to be more effective you would have to compare it against the SAFC+ITC+ some way to read boost pressure for your tuning. retail for an SAFC is $419 and ITC is $399. again you see the savings. If what you need fits in this piggy back category, then the Greddy Emanage is another choice to consider. J

07-14-2002, 04:25 PM	#23
scubaracer Scooby Specialist Member#: 4909 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: North Bend, Washington Vehicle: 1992 legacy 2.2Turbo silver sports sedan	FYI jeffg, at www.modacar.com you can get an s-afc and Itc for a little under $600. just some extra info

07-14-2002, 10:17 PM	#24
jeffg Scooby Guru Member#: 2958 Join Date: Nov 2000 Chapter/Region: NWIC Vehicle: 2001 WRX (GC8)	I was going purely off of suggested retail parts. I saw a quote for an Emanage, with harnesses installed and tuned for $500. So there are deals to be had anywhere. J EDIT: really nice site by the way, thanks for the link.

07-15-2002, 02:07 AM	#25
Chav Scooby Specialist Member#: 3269 Join Date: Dec 2000 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: San Diego Vehicle: 2001 2.5RS Sedan STM RSTi	There IS a plug and play harness for the Link 2 for the gc8. Go to www.carmodifications.com and call them. They source the harness from a person here in the US that builds the harness. The harness simply plugs into the Link and plugs into the existing ECU harness. -Chav