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Old 11-30-2011, 08:37 PM   #1
PhatBotti Tuning TKR
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Tuning Da Subies

Default PhatBotti Tuning - Tuning FAQ & Misc Info

*** THIS IS BASICALLY A STOCK ECU/ STOCK LOCATION TURBO FAQ, VARIOUS EM'S & ROTATED TURBOS NOT DISCUSSED **

AccessPort Tuning: What you need

1) Laptop - U need a laptop to be able to utilize ATR and the AEM wideband logging. **

2) Access Tuner Race - you need to email cobb and get the download link for ATR. ATR will give you access to more logging parameters. ATR FORM (click me)

3) Wideband - if you have anything but stock injectors or stock intake, you need a wideband. but even with stock components i urge everyone to get a wideband....fuel is the lifeblood of your motor and you need to monitor it. Subarus are notorious for developing leaks and the wideband can save your motor. AEM Uegos (part #30-4100) are ~$165 on ebay and $165 is peanuts to protect your $25k-$40k investment. ** In my experience installing the 02 sensor at the rear of the downpipe will help the sensor last longer, but dont just remove the stock rear 02 and put the wideband in, you need to weld on a second bung and keep both installed.

4) Wideband (AEM) Logging Cable - you need to purchase the AEM Logging cable from Busted finger or make your own with parts from radioshack. ** Busted Finger (click me)

Busted Finger Cable Drivers (click me)

** If you have stock injectors & stock intake (or stock size intake) you dont need the wideband, wb logging cable or laptop. **

Opensource Tuning: What you need

1) Tactrix Openport 2.0 Cable - TACTRIX CABLE (click me)

2) Laptop - U need a laptop to be able to utilize romraider and ecuflash.

3) Romraider and Ecuflash - go here for downloads and instruction

New Learning View RC3 (CLICK ME)

New Romraider w/ Fast Polling (CLICK ME)

Old Romraider n Learning View Links...just use this for install FAQ's

RomRaider/Ecuflash getting started FAQ (click me)

4) Wideband - if you have anything but stock injectors or stock intake, you need a wideband. but even with stock components i urge everyone to get a wideband....fuel is the lifeblood of your motor and you need to monitor it. Subarus are notorious for developing leaks and the wideband can save your motor. AEM Uegos are ~$165 on ebay and $165 is peanuts to protect your $25k-$40k investment. ***

5) Wideband (AEM) Logging Cable - you need to purchase the AEM Logging cable from Busted finger or make your own with parts from radioshack. *** Busted Finger (click me)

Busted Finger Cable Drivers (click me)

*** If you have stock injectors & stock intake (or stock size intake) you dont need the wideband or wideband logging cable. ***

**** VISTA USERS: when installing Ecuflash & Romraider on your computer use the RUN AS ADMIN option. Right click on icon, select run as admin ****

MAF Tab Scaling Instructions PDF (click me)

Opensource vs Access Port

The AP is "easy" in the sense that it arrives at your door and you can go out and flash maps.

With opensource you need to buy the cable, download all the programs, figure out how to use ecuflash, figure out how to use romraider, etc.

The AP wins in the category of ease of install and initial use. Some people have lots of issues with Opensource...getting ecuflash and romraider installed can be a PITA on some computers...driver problems, java problems, getting the definitions in the correct folder....

The AP is more for people who are never going to want to tune or monitor their own vehicle....although you can log with the AP and you can get access tuner race and tune your own vehicle.

Opensource is more for people who want to tinker with their tune and see what various parameters do.

Better is a matter of perspective too. For the new subaru owner an AP is definately easier...which in turn could make it better. AP comes with a database of tunes for 91, 93, stage1, stage2 etc......and you can switch maps without a laptop....and it has launch control and flat foot shifting. Cobb has an actual office and customer service support lines.

OS doesnt come with any maps...but you can find them online. OS doesnt come with LC or FFS, but you can buy it from tinywrex. OS doesnt have any customer service...thus people post their problems on nasioc.

Road Tuning/E-Tuning vs Dyno Tuning

Road/E-Tuning Pros
- loads and environment are exactly what the car is going to see everyday
- hood is down, heatsoak is exactly how it will be daily, underhood aerodynamics are accounted for
- you get in the habit of monitoring your own vehicle
- you get an understanding of the tuning process and can see whats being changed
- you get a better understanding of when it is/isnt a good idea to beat on your car
- more involved process. you are the one driving the car. you have control of when to get out of a pull if you think something is wrong.

Road/E-Tuning Cons
- time. the process can take 1-2 weeks or way longer....some people send me 10 logs a day....some send 1 log a month.....some people pay then take 3-4 weeks to get me there AP serial #. 95% of the time i am waiting on logs from customers...the 5% where they have to wait is because i am either driving or seeing family on a holiday.
- speeding. traffic tickets are a possibility.
- traffic, accidents, old ladies, animals, weather can all come into play on the road
- troubleshooting mechanical issues via the internetz sux teh ballz

Dyno Tuning Pros
- You're at a shop with mechanics who can troubleshoot real time
- Greater level of detail and consistency of power measurement
- Dont have to worry about traffic tickets, traffic, weather, etc
- you get a pretty dyno chart

Dyno Tuning Cons
- load/environment replication. personally i've never seen a car driving down the street with its hood popped and a fan mounted in front of it.
- since the tuning is done with the hood open underhood aerodynamics arent taken into account at all. intake air temperatures are not close to being on the road. coolant temps can also get really high on the dyno.
- Dom @ MPS on road tuning after dyno tuning. "(Detuning on the road) is because you tuned the car with high IAT (on the dyno) and now you need to compensate for the cooler IATs you got in the real world. This is the same misconception most other tuners/shops have in this country. They don't realize that you get more airflow over the car, through the engine bay and radiator at 20mph than you get on the shop floor with 3 fans in front of it. You have to look at the air over the car as a difference in pressure. The under-tray creates a low pressure region under the car and draws air through the intercooler and radiator. Floor fans alone can't provide enough pressure to do this."


Last edited by PhatBotti Tuning TKR; 06-16-2012 at 03:34 AM.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:37 PM   #2
PhatBotti Tuning TKR
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Turbo Info

Blouch Turbos (click me)
Code:
Blouch	        Bearing	Turb	Chp	Whp	Price	$$/hp
td05h-16g	journal	7cm	350	280	695	2.48
dom 0.5-R	ball	8,10	360	288	1395	4.84
td05h-16g XT	journal	8,10	410	328	950	2.9
td05h-18g XT	journal	7,8,10	430	344	1250	3.63
td05h-20g XT-R	ball	8,10	440	352	1499	4.26
td05h-20g XT	journal	7,8,10	470	376	1350	3.59
dom 1.5 XT-R	ball	8,10	480	384	1595	4.15
dom 1.0 XT	journal	7,8,10	490	392	1475	3.76
dom 2.5 XT-R	ball	8,10	490	392	1695	4.32
dom 2.0 XT	journal	7,8,10	550	440	1595	3.63
dom 3.0 XT-R	ball	8,10	550	440	1795	4.08
dom 4.0 XT-R	ball	8,10	600	480	1950	4.06
dom 5.0 XT-R	ball	10	650	520	1995	3.84
18gxt vs xtr

Dom at MP

"The 18G-XTR spools slower than the 18G-XT. I spoke with Blouch they said they shouldn't even have called the turbo an 18G. They should have called it a DOM 0.5 or something. It has the larger 56.5mm turbine wheel of the GT30 and spools about 400rpm later than the normal 18G-XT."

FP Turbos (click me)

Code:
FP	Bearing	Turb	Chp	Whp	Price	$$/whp
HTA 68	journal	7or8cm	470	376	995	2.65
HTA Grn  journal	7or8cm	560	448	1399	3.12
RED	journal	7or8cm	650	520	1499	2.88
HTA 76	ball	9cm	600	480	1999	4.16
HTA 82	ball	9cm	680	544	1999	3.67
Element Turbos (click me)

Code:
turbo	Bearing	Turb	Chp	Whp	Price	$$/whp
GT49	journal	7cm	490	392	1499	3.82
GT52	journal	7cm	520	416	1699	4.08
GT65	journal	8cm	650	520	1899	3.65
ATP (click me)

Code:
ATP	Bearing	Turb	Chp	Whp	Price	$$/whp
28RS	ball	10cm	420	336	1695	5.04
2871	ball	10cm	440	352	1745	4.96
3071	ball	10cm	470	376	1895	5.04
3076	ball	10cm	520	416	1895	4.56
3582	ball	10cm	650	520	1995	3.84
x3071	ball	10cm	520	416	2195	5.28
x3076	ball	10cm	650	520	2195	4.22
x3582	ball	10cm	720	576	2295	3.98
Subaru Turbo List (click me)

Boost Control

- Electronic Boost Control Solenoid (EBCS)
o Grimmspeed or Perrin
- Manual Boost Controller
o Hallmna Pro RX with Heavy spring and ceramic ball
o Grimmspeed New Model with clicks & lines
- Hybrid Boost Control (EBCS+MBC)
o Combines early spool and solid boost of the MBC with the safety of the EBCS by retaining the ECU’s ability to use overboost fuel cut and cut the wgdc in limp mode.
o HYBRID BOOST CONTROL FAQ AND INSTALL INSTRUCTIONS (CLICK ME)
- Best boost control is hybrid (ebcs+mbc) plus an external wastegate. An external wg makes the most power on chitty gas. The better octane you use and the higher boost you run, the less impact an ext wg has.

Intake Info
Code:
(mm)	(in)	Whp
65	2.56	350        good up to 44lbm turbos (20g)
70	2.76	400        good up to 49lbm turbos (dom2.5xtr, OG Green)
73	2.87	425        good up to 52lbm turbos (gt30)
76	2.99	450        good up to 56lbm turbos (dom3xtr, htagreen)
83	3.27	550        good up to 65lbm turbos (red, black, dom4xtr)
86	3.39	600        good up to 70lbm turbos (speed density is probably the best option at this point)
KSTech Intakes
http://www.kstech.biz/servlet/the-Me...kes/Categories

Fuel System (Injectors, Fuel Pumps, Regulators)

The best setup is topfeed rails, appropriate pump (rewired with bigger gauge wire), fuel pressure regulator, and ID injectors. Five-0 Top Feed Bosch EV-14 injectors are also good

ID1000 (click me)

ID2000 (click me)

DeatschWerks (click me)

Fuel Injector Clinic (click me)

Five-0 Motorsports Top Feed Bosch EV-14 Injectors are also good (click me)

** If you’re sidefeed and want to run 1000cc+ injectors for E-85 you really need to convert to topfeed. Running big sidefeed injectors on pump gas is going to cause drivability problems, misfires and necessitate a high idle to keep the injector pulse width up to keep the injector flow linear.

** I'd highly recommend staying away from PE injectors. They seem to have the most problems.

Fuel Injectors & Pumps for E-85

- vf turbo (32-36 lbm) will max 740cc injectors, use 850cc if you want headroom. walbro255
- old 18g's/20g's (38-44 lbm) will max 850cc injectors, use 1000cc if you want headroom. walbro255
- 20gxt, OG Green, SZ49, SR50, 3071 (47-49 lbm) 1100-1200cc. Dw300/Aero340
- gt3076, gt52, dom3, htagreen (52-56 lbm) 1300-1400cc. Dw300/Aero340
- dom4, red, gt65 (60-65 lbm) 1600cc. walbro400
- gt35/40 (68-76 lbm) 2000cc. Bosch040 (maybe twin 040's) with a surge tank.

** To get more out of smaller injectors you need to remove the stock fuel pump wiring for thicker gauge wire and utilize a FPR.

E85 Misc

E85 startup issues
The cranking tables are based on coolant temperature….so you need to localize the coolant temp where the issue is apparent. Basically if you have problems in the morning (cold start) then you need to modify the table below 50* and cold start issues usually need an increase in fuel. Hot start problems 68*+ coolant temp can necessitate either an increase or decrease in fuel.
If you're open source (OS) just open your map...scroll to the cranking tables....go through each one (A through F i believe). Highlight the whole IPW side of the table, then hit *1.1. Do that same thing for the tables A-F...

If it’s better, but still not perfect....repeat.

If it’s worse.....then go back and go the opposite way and multiply by *.90 to remove some fuel.

If you’re using Access Tuner Race (ATR)…the process is the same….except the multiplication shortcut key is “m”.

Some cars have required 60-80% increase below 50* coolant temp.

** E85 ARMY THREAD (CLICK ME)

Fuel Pumps (pump hp / E85 hp)

- Walbro 255 FP (450whp / 400whp)
- DeatschWerks DW300 FP (500whp / 450whp) ( http://www.deatschwerks.com/fuel-pumps )
- Aeromotive 340 FP (525whp / 475whp)
- Walbro 400 (550 whp / 500whp)
- Aeromotive A1000 FP ( 575whp / 525whp)
- Bosch040 FP ( 600whp / 550whp)
- Walbro Double Pumper (enough)

Fuel Pressure Regulators
- Aeromotive, Fuel Lab
- Warning – turning up the fuel pressure on any intank pumps will be counterproductive and cause the fuel flow to decrease. If you want to turn up the fuel pressure you need to replace the stock fuel pump wiring with bigger gauge wire to allow the pump to receive more amps.

Blow Off Valves (BOV) & By-Pass Valves (BPV)

By-Pass Valve - does exactly what the name suggests. when you let off the gas and the throttle closes, the BPV opens to BY-PASS the turbo and send the air back to the intake. This has 2 benefits...it prevents compressor surge and at the same time utilizes that pressurized air to keep the turbo spooled when shifting.

Blow Off Valve - Blows off air to atmosphere at throttle lift. Bad for MAF based vehicle since you are releasing air measured by the MAF...this makes the car run rich and blow fireballs when shifting. BOV's only prevent comp surge and the turbo will slow more while shifting compared to a bpv since the air isnt recirculated to keep the comp spinning.

In both cases when you lift of the throttle the pressurized air now takes the path of least resistance.....if you put a 30 psi spring in your bpv and you're running 20psi and you let off the throttle....the spring is going to be too tight to open so the air has to go somewhere....which is through the compressor backwards. Thats compressor surge. You're shoving air through the compressor backwards.

BPV's and BOV's dont do anything at WOT...unless they are leaking. Their main functions (preventing compressor surge and utilizing the pressurized air to keep the turbo spooled while shifting) happen when you let off the gas.

I recommend the forge race bpv with spring kit or a Tial bpv with spring kit. The spring kits add adjustbility that stops them from leaking at idle. The HKS SSQV is the worst valve on the market...stay away at all costs.


Td04 lack of boost – many td04's come with loose wg arms. tighten the wg arm 2 turns check for overboost, repeat.

Last edited by PhatBotti Tuning TKR; 10-20-2012 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:27 PM   #3
Airboy
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2006 WRX
MHI-TF06-18K

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatBotti Tuning TKR View Post
[b]The HKS SSQV is the worst valve on the market...stay away at all costs.
Please elaborate
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:39 PM   #4
Phatron
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Location: Tuning Lab
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CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post
Hi Ron,

Nice job!

We've had quite a few monitor name changes since the AccessPORT firmware overhaul in Feb. of this year. We recommend that anyone running the old firmware update to the latest. They are more in-line with Subaru's naming convention (as well as my own),
yeah, i just copy/pasted those from Eric....just didnt get around to changing them. i'll try and update today/tonight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airboy View Post
Please elaborate
Its not only the HKS BOV.....its most on the market. All the bov's come with chitty weak springs that leak at idle. Basically i like any bpv/bov that has a spring kit and is adjustable.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:37 PM   #5
PhatBotti Tuning TKR
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Tri-State / California
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Tuning Da Subies

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2008+ STi hesitation

For some reason subaru completely switched up the Fuel Pressure Regulator and Fuel Dampener setup on the 2008+ STi's. This causes crazy fueling behavior and the AFR's bounce lean, rich, lean, rich. Subaru tried to counter these fueling discrepancies by adding in a compensation table. Some cars experience this issue stock, some dont. But once modding starts its pretty inevitable.

The best fix for this is to switch back to the 07 and prior setup. This involves installing the pre-08 FPR and dampers.

Another option is to try tuning the MRP vs RPM load trimming table. Spreadsheet available here MRP Load Comp Spreadsheet (CLICK ME)

Misfires

Misfires are mainly from lightweight crank pulleys & flywheels and from trying to run big injectors (1000cc+) on pump gas. The obvious way to get rid of flywheel & pulley misfires is to go back to stock components.
Troubleshooting
- Check for leaks
- Check injector scalar, latency and MAF scale

Once the tune is verified as good…then you can disable the CEL
- OS – simply disable CEL
- ATR – you can tune the Misfire table or simply disable the CEL

Blow Thru

- Pros
- Post Intercooler intake air temps
- Your car will run if you pop off an intercooler hose

- Cons
- necessitates bigger MAF piping
- pressure waves/pulses from the throttle and valves make the MAF voltage very wavy and cause erratic Load readings which in turn causes erratic timing and AFR. You can smooth out the Timing by making wide margins in the load but the AFR will still be very wavy compared to draw thru. You can try to smooth it out by making wide ranges in the loads like the timing, but ultimately the swinging MAFv is gonna cause it to be erratic.
- blow thru masks leaks. if any of your intercooler piping is leaking you will never know. the turbo may be putting out 30 psi to hold 23 psi in the manifold and you would never know. I like knowing of leaks and being able to correct them....blow thru just masks the problem and doesnt alert you of it.

I recommend against blow thru. Ultimately the post intercooler IAT's are always 5-10* above ambient so they arent really helpful. And its pretty easy to carry a screwdriver or socket for putting an intercooler hose back on. Plus the wavy MAFv, bigger MAF pipe and tuning issues just dont make it worth while.

Mitsubishi to Garrett Turbine Housing Conversion

6 cm2 = 0.41 A/R
7 cm2 = 0.49 A/R
8 cm2 = 0.57 A/R
9 cm2 = 0.65 A/R
10 cm2 = 0.73 A/R
11 cm2 = 0.81 A/R
12 cm2 = 0.89 A/R

Last edited by PhatBotti Tuning TKR; 11-30-2011 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:38 PM   #6
PhatBotti Tuning TKR
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Troubleshooting

Boost Leak Test Instructions (click me)

Another Boost Leak Tester (click me)


MOST IMPORTANT RULE OF TROUBLESHOOTING - DO NOT RESET THE ECU
- The ecu stores the IAM, AF Learnings, CEL's and knock learning so by resetting the ECU you are erasing all the troubleshooting data.
- If your car was knocking and the IAM had dropped or had FLKC all over and you reset the ECU, then you are going to knock all over again until the ECU relearns the knock.
- If you had a leak and your ECU learned +25% fueling corrections and you reset the ECU, then your car is just going to run like crap until it relearns the corrections.
- Its only a good idea to reset the ECU if you have collected a learning view, made changes to correct your issue, and fully understand what you are doing.

BEST REAL TIME MONITORING DEVICE - WIDEBAND (AEM UEGO)
- A wideband is by far the best real time monitoring device for your Subaru. The $165 investment could save you a blown motor and $4000.
- Will show you your WOT AFR's. If you were tuned at 10.8 and now your AFR's are 12.5, then you need to start troubleshooting.
- At idle and in closed loop a Wideband mounted in the downpipe will commonly show 15-15.2 while the ECU is targeting 14.7. This is common and merely due to the location of the sensor compared to the stock 02 sensor in the header.
- Since the ECU is using the stock02 sensor for corrections/trimming to 14.7 this means we basically ignore the wideband at idle....and then at WOT we use the wideband and ignore the stock sensor.

ONCE IM TUNED WHAT SHOULD I WATCH
- Wideband - watch your AFR's if they are more than a full point off (IE went from 10.8 to 11.8) stop doing WOT pulls and start troubleshooting
- AF Learnings ABCD - these are the corrections for the 4 sections of your MAF scale. if they are more than +-8%, start troubleshooting.
- IAM/DAM - if the value is less than 1 (32bit ecu) or less than 16 (16bit ecu), start troubleshooting.
- Logs - take periodic logs looking for knock, overboosting, out of whack AFR's
- Learning View - pull learning views and check the ABCD learnings, FLKC, and IAM
- Regular maintenance - check oil every weekend, turbo cars burn oil..catch it early. do your plugs at 50-75% of recommended intervals. clean air filters. check vacuum/boost lines (clamp everything). keep meth tank full.

Last edited by PhatBotti Tuning TKR; 12-06-2011 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:38 PM   #7
PhatBotti Tuning TKR
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Re-Tune: What Requires One?

- injectors
- intake (some 65mm intakes can be run without a retune, but why risk it? get a wideband and verify your AFRs)
- turbo inlet, elbows, tgv deletes (these things need to have the AF Corretions / MAF checked, probably need small corrections)
- boost control (target boost, turbo dynamics and wgdc)
- downpipe/tbe (wgdc needs to be tuned)
- ext wg (wgdc needs to be tuned)
- fmic (without a retune you will run super rich at peak boost)
- tmic, bpv, bov, header, up pipe (need to recheck AF Corrections, MAF and wgdc/boost levels)

Basically my philosophy is "if you change a part, check the tune". Why be careless with a $25-$35k car? take 30 minutes and verify everything is good.

What Parts Do You Recommend?

Turbos
- overall? - blouch. biggest selection. both bb (garrett CHRA) and journal. decent prices. great support.
- FP's HTA68 is a great cheap turbo.
- Element is expensive for being journal bearing and uses small turbine housings.
- ATP uses Garrett CHRA's, thus they are expensive. Good turbos, but pricey.

TMIC
- Spearco
- 08+ STi

BOV/BPV
- Forge Race w/ spring tuning kit
- Tial w/ spring tuning kit

Headers/Up
- GT Spec/ProSport/Tomei 3-bolt Equal Length wrapped and sprayed with high temp paint (you need to wrap the header with aluminum foil when you're changing your oil filter to prevent oil soaking in the wrap and possibly starting a fire)

Intakes
- KS Tech (if you live in a rainy climate be careful of Cold air intakes...rain can/will get sucked in a play havoc on AFR's)(this can be avoided by keeping on your splash guard and fender liner)

Boost Control
- Perrin or GrimmSpeed EBCS/mbc
- Hallman ProRx MBC w/ Ceramic Ball and heavy spring

Turbo Inlets
- APS (discontinued), AMR, AP (i dont like silicone inlets. the hose connections/fittings leak and there is the possibility of collapse)

TGV Deletes & Coating
- Grimmspeed

Spark Plugs
- Pump Gas - NGK Iridiums 1 Step Colder gapped 0.028-0.030 (can be run for 40,000-60,000 miles, but i change them at 20-30k to maximize performance and mpg)

- E85 - NGK Copper Stock heat range or 1 step colder gapped 0.022-0.024 (change at 10,000-12,000 miles)

- Pump/E85 - Brisk Racing Silver plugs (can get from Dom at Maxwell Power)
- ER is for usdm avcs heads.
- DR is for non avcs and jdm heads.
- Heat ranges are 14 & 12. 14 is the same as a 7, 12 is an ngk 8.
- Y Tips are protruding.
- Non-protruding tips are like dropping half a heat range with better knock resistance.
- For e85 and a garrett gt35r sized turbo I would recommend Starting with ER14S.

"The more power you make, the tighter you want your gap and the you should consider copper or Brisk Silver plugs. The electrodes on Iridium/Platinum plugs are so small that they will continue to glow after combustion, setting the cylinder up for a pre-ignition issue on the next stroke.
Indexing spark plugs. Indexing is the process of orienting the ground strap of the plug at a certain position on the clock. What we tell people is to try and shoot for as close to 12-1PM as possible. What you’d want to do is put some white-out or something similar on the extension to the plug socket, and then orientate the ground strap so that the back of it is on that mark. Proceed at that point to tighten
(be careful!) the plug so that the mark ends up at that 12-1PM mark if you’re looking down the extension itself." ( Jorge Carrillo: P&L Caring for and modifying your vehicle)

Last edited by PhatBotti Tuning TKR; 12-02-2011 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:38 PM   #8
PhatBotti Tuning TKR
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Cobb Tuning Guide & Worksheets (click me)

Bad Noodle's A Complete Tuning Guide (click me)

How To Get Started Tuning and Logging (click me)

How To Make Useful Data Logs (click me)

Stealth316 Site - Lots of Good Turbo Info (click me)

Virtual Dyno (click me)

Tactrix SD Card Logging (click me)

Tiny WReX Patches (click me)

HOW DO I VIEW DATALOGS?

To view the datalogs you need to have a spreadsheet program. If you don't have excel. You can get a free spreadsheet program called Calc, it is in Openoffice. An open source office suite similar to Microsoft's Office. You can down load it at http://www.openoffice.org/

HOW DO I POST DATALOGS ON THE INTERNETZ?

Google Docs has a service where you can upload your spreadsheet files and you can post a link for others to view. This is a free service. http://docs.google.com

PARAMETER DEFINITIONS

Seconds (sec)[AP] or Time(ms)[RR]

This is the time elapsed during the datalog. RR datalogger lists this time in milliseconds.

RPM (RPM) [AP] or Engine Speed (RPM) [RR]

This is your engine speed. Measured in RPM.

Calculated Load (load) [AP] or Engine Load (1 byte) (g/rev) [RR]

This is the load on the engine. It is calculated by using data from the MAF sensor to calculate how much air is entering the engine per revolution. Engine load is used throughout the ECU as a variable to control the ECU's tables regarding everything from ignition timing and AVCS timing to how much fuel is used.

Dyn. Adv. Mult. (DAM) or IAM [RR]

This is used as part of Subaru's knock control strategy. The Subaru ECU pulls timing to reduce knock and in extreme cases can richen the fuel mixture and disable boost control leaving you at wastegate boost. This value is multiplied to the timing advance table and added to the Base timing table to create the maximum timing advance. If the value is 1 full timing advance is being used. If the value is less than 1 only that fraction of the timing advance table is being used.

ex. If the DAM equals .5 and the timing advance table calls for 5 degrees advance. .5*5 = 2.5 degrees will be added to the base timing.

What you need to know. The DAM is set in a stock ecu to .5 after ecu reset. The tuner may modify this value to start at any value they want. Generally as you drive around this value will increase to 1. You will need to be at engine loads that apply timing advance to raise this multiplier as well as other factors. If your car does not raise this DAM or reduces it. It is because of feedback from the knock sensor. This is an indication that either knock is occurring or false knock is being picked up through the knock sensor. It is a safety precaution when bad gas or low octane gas is used.

If the value drops below .35 the alternative open loop enrichment table is used. This is a much richer table then the normal open loop enrichment table.

If the value drops below .2 the ECU disables Boost control. This will leave you car running at wastegate boost and you will always have 0% Wastegate Duty Cycle. It will not be turned back on till the DAM increases to above .65.

The value you are looking for is a DAM of 1 (32 bit ecu) or 16 (16bit ecu)

Ignition Adv. (deg)[AP] or Ignition Total Timing[RR]

This the total amount of ignition advance currently being used by the engine. It is measured at cylinder 1 so 'per cylinder' ignition changes will only be seen if they are applied to cylinder 1

Learned Ign. (deg)[AP] or Ignition Timing Advance (degrees)[RR]

This is the amount of timing that is added to ignition base timing to create the total timing used.
It is calculated by
DAM* Timing advance table - Knock Correction - Knock Learning
Or To RR users
IAM*Timing advance table ‚ Feedback Knock Correction ‚ Fine Learning Knock Correction.

Knock Correction (deg)[AP] or Feedback Knock Correction(degrees)[RR]

This is the total timing being pulled when the ECU picks up a knock event. This is an indication that the ecu has detected knock from the knock sensor. It will continue to pull timing for a period of time after knock has occurred. If the ECU sees another knock event additional timing will be pulled. Although this can be changed by the tuner generally -1.4 is used for each knock event.

What you need to know. It is important to not see Knock Correction at high engine loads from about 1.8 up. It would be ideal to not have any knock events at all even at low loads. However the knock sensor may hear other noises that it cannot distinguish from knock. Sometimes rattling heat shields, clutch and transmission noises or even loose bolts or nuts sitting on top of the engine can set off the knock sensor.

Knock Learning (deg)[AP] or Fine Learning Knock Correction (degrees)[RR]

This is the timing being pulled when the ECU has learned to pull timing to protect from knock. Over time the ECU will slowly advance timing back as long as no new knock is occurring. Timing will be pulled in increments of -1.4. The knock sensor is used by the ECU to determine if knock is occurring.

Knock Sum

"Knock sum will increment at idle and low RPM where the ECU is extremely poor at distinguishing actual knock from other engine noises. This is why the ECU does not respond to "knock" events in this area. The knock sum value itself is meaningless because of this. You have to look at when it increments and ignore changes at idle and low RPM/load. Cylinder #4 will see more counts even on a stock engine, likely due to the relationship between the placement of the knock sensor on the block and cylinder #4.

Bill" (from Bill at Cobb)

Throttle Position (%)[AP] or Throttle Opening Angle(%)[RR]

This displays the current throttle position. Because Subaru doesn't use an idle control valve on drive by wire cars. With your foot off the gas it will still leave the throttle open about 2 degrees to keep the car idling.

Boost (PSI)[AP] or Manifold Relative Pressure(corrected)(PSI)[RR]

This displays the current boost pressure relative to current atmospheric pressure.
You would want this value to not go past the Boost pressure described by the maps notes.

Wastegate Duty (%)[AP] or Primary Wastegate Duty Cycle(%)

This is the current wastegate duty used by the ECU to achieve a target boost level. At 0% wastegate duty cycle the car will operate at wastegate boost.(7-9 PSI on WRX's) Wastegate duty cycle controls the amount of air that will pass through the boost control solenoid to the wastegate actuator. The wastegate actuator will open at a set PSI (7-9PSI on WRX's). The boost control solenoid limits the amount of boost that will be seen by the wastegate actuator. The higher the wastegate duty the less pressure is seen by the wastegate actuator. Higher wastegate duty's will result in higher pressure levels.

Turbo Dynamics (PSI)[AP] or Turbo Dynamics Integral (4-byte)*(%) & Turbo Dynamics Proportional (4-byte)*(%)[RR]

This displays the change in wastegate duty by the ECU to achieve a target boost level.

Air/Fuel Ratio (AFR)[AP] or A/F Sensor #1(AFR)[RR]

This displays the current AFR as measured from the front wideband oxygen sensor. It is normal to see readings around 14.7 AFR during idle and cruise. The AFR's will also climb to the 20's on deceleration because the injectors are shut off. The sensor is only accurate for determining AFR's during light throttle, cruise and idling. Because of it's location on the exhaust manifold, the exhaust gases become compressed as the turbo is spooled. The compressed exhaust gases cause the the sensor to read richer then actual AFR. The ECU does limit output of the oxygen sensor. Generally it will read down to the low 11's.

You need a wideband placed post turbo to measure actual AFR during WOT. If the stock oxygen sensor is reading AFR's above this lower limit at high boost levels it most likely running dangerously lean.

Inj. Pulse Width (ms)[AP] or Fuel Injector #1 Pulse Width(ms)[RR]

This is the current injector pulse width measured in milliseconds.

Inj. Duty Cycle (%)[AP] or Injector Duty Cycle(%)[RR]

This is the percentage of time during 2 revolutions of the engine that the fuel injector is open. It is calculated using engine speed and Injector Pulse Width. There has been lots of debate in the tuning community as to the accuracy of this value. Many tuners have seen fuel enrichment above 100% which is theoretically impossible. This has believed some to assume that the injector pulsewidth may not be accurately being converted from the raw ECU data.

What you need to know. If you are getting close to 100% or above in injector duty cycle your injectors are being about maxed out. This may be caused from the car running too rich or you are approaching the limits of your current fuel system.

Mass Airflow (g/s)[AP&RR]

This is the current amount of airflow going past the MAF sensor. It is pretty close to a measure of actual Wheel Horsepower. These numbers will vary with different stages and environmental conditions. If you have a boost leak it is likely that these numbers will appear to be much higher than normal. If you have a pre-turbo intake leak these numbers may be lower than normal.

MAF Voltage (V)[AP] or Mass Airflow Sensor Voltage(V)[RR]

This is the current Mass Air Flow sensor voltage. The voltage from the MAF determines the Mass Airflow (g/sec) along with other factors.

Fuel Trim (Short) (%)[AP] or A/F Correction(%)[RR]

This the current Fuel trim or fuel correction. It is often called Short Term Fuel Trims or STFT. During closed loop fueling, the ECU is constantly making adjustments to fueling based on hitting a target AFR. It will be looking at MAF sensor voltage to decide how much fuel is needed and use feedback from the oxygen sensor to make adjustments. This process is only occurring in closed loop, if the value is 0 it is likely the car is operating in open loop.

Fuel Trim (Long) (%)[AP] or A/F Learning(%)[RR]

These are often referred to as Long Term Fuel Trims or LTFT. As the ECU makes changes to AFR during STFT(A/F correction in RR), over time these adjustments are learned by the ecu and stored in 4 cells to provide adjustment to AFR's. Although these values can be changed by the tuner they generally are not. The ranges are broken up into ranges based on Mass Airflow(g/sec). They are stored in the ECU in the following ranges. A,B,C, and D

A 0-5.6 g/sec
B 5.6-10 g/sec
C 10-40 g/sec 08 WRX and STI's 10-50 g/sec 09 WRX
D 40+ g/sec 08 WRX and STI's 50+ g/sec 09 WRX

Cobb says to have LTFT's less than 8%. I believe that these values should be less. I believe you are OK with having a 8% fuel trim in the A range but I like all others to be less than 5% and for the D range I believe values should be less than 3%.

Lots of things can effect your LTFT's on a day to day basis. The ECU could be making corrections for a heat soaked MAF or the Humidity in the Air. LTFT are a good indication of how your car is adapting to new intake. This could be used as a way to confirm boost leaks. If there is a boost leak, LTFT's will become excessively negative in the D Range.

You will have to individually look to see what range your LTFT's are in to make a determination of how bad your LTFT are looking if you have an AP. For RR users you can look at the individual stored values in the ECU. You can log the following to watch your A/F Learning.

A/F Learning #1 A (Stored)*
A/F Learning #1 B (Stored)*
A/F Learning #1 C (Stored)*
A/F Learning #1 D (Stored)*

Coolant Temp. (F)[AP or RR]

This is the current coolant temperature. RR users can log this in Fahrenheit or Celsius.

Intake Temp. (F)[AP] or Intake Air Temperature (degrees C or degrees F)[RR]

This is the current intake temperature. The sensor is located on the MAF sensor so it will not give you the temperature of the actual intake charge unless you are running a blow through MAF setup. If you sit a while idling the temperatures can climb to high levels. The MAF is not very accurate when temperatures get too high.

Vehicle Speed (mph)[AP or RR]

This is the current vehicle speed. It is good to log vehicle speed to determine what gear you are in during the log. It should also be noted that the vehicle speed sensor has a little delay in it. Maybe by a half a second or so. This why road dyno programs and spreadsheets use RPM data to calculate HP, Torque,0-60 and Mile times.

Battery Volt. (V)[AP or RR]

This is the current battery voltage. It's primary affect on tuning is how it affects the dead time of the injectors. If the dead time of the injectors is properly set, battery voltage should not effect fueling.


WHAT SHOULD I DATALOG?

Romraider Datalog List for WOT

Engine Load (4 byte) (g/rev)
Engine Speed (RPM)
Feedback Knock Correction(degrees)
Fine Learning Knock Correction (degrees)
Ignition Total Timing
Injector Duty Cycle(%)
Manifold Relative Pressure(4 Byte or direct)(PSI)
Mass Airflow Voltage
Primary Wastegate Duty Cycle
Throttle Opening Angle(%)

AccessPort MAF Scale Logging

A/F Correction 1 (%)
A/F Learning 1 (%)
A/F Sens 1 Ratio (AFR)
Calculated Load
CL/OL Delay
Intake Air Temp
MAFv
RPM
Throttle Position

AccessPort WOT Logging

Boost Target
Calculated Load
Engine Speed (RPM)
Feedback Knock Correction (FBKC)
Fine Knock Learning (FLKC)
Ignition Timing
Inj. Duty Cycle (IDC)
Intake Temp (IAT)
Manifold Rel. Pressure (boost)
Mass Airflow Voltage (MAFv)
Throttle Position
Wastegate Duty (WGDC)
AFR (Lc-1/Uego)

Last edited by PhatBotti Tuning TKR; 07-04-2012 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 11-30-2011, 09:18 PM   #9
juanmedina
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Fix the HTA green whp Ron

very nice
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Old 11-30-2011, 09:42 PM   #10
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from Eric's Guide To Your Turbo 3g (click me)

1.Basics of the ECUs tables.

The modern fuel injection system is a complicated system of sensors that gather data and control the engine. The tuner has access to tables inside your ECU. By making changes to these tables he can alter how the ECU responds to these conditions. These tables are 1d, 2d, or 3d.

A 1d table is a table that doesn't change with variables. It is one value and one value only.


A 2d table is one that's value changes for 1 parameter. It may change with engine speed, coolant temp, or intake temperature for example.


A 3d Table is one who's value changes based on 2 parameters. It uses two values such as engine speed and engine load to calculate a value.


The ECU can use many of these tables to determine how to control something like ignition timing or fuel injector pulse width.

The most common 3d tables are Engine Speed and Engine Load dependent. Engine Speed is the RPM's. Engine Load is generally calculated by how many grams of air are flowing to the engine per revolution (g/rev). . The MAF sensor calculates what the current airflow is by measuring how many grams per second (g/sec) of air are coming into the engine. It then takes engine speed into account to convert g/sec into g/rev. This value will generally go up at higher torque levels and is generally proportional to torque output.

Most of the time the car will be between 4 of these values. Between 2 RPM points and between engine load points. These values will be weighted to come up with a desired value.

If you ever exceed the maximum value of a table the last value will be used. This makes scaling maps for increased engine loads important. You will most likely exceed the stock maps values with stage 2 tunes and sometimes even stage 1.


[quote author=eminehart link=topic=6831.msg91043#msg91043 date=1239670203]
1.Basics of the ECUs tables.

The modern fuel injection system is a complicated system of sensors that gather data and control the engine. The tuner has access to tables inside your ECU. By making changes to these tables he can alter how the ECU responds to these conditions. These tables are 1d, 2d, or 3d.

A 1d table is a table that doesn't change with variables. It is one value and one value only.


A 2d table is one that's value changes for 1 parameter. It may change with engine speed, coolant temp, or intake temperature for example.


A 3d Table is one who's value changes based on 2 parameters. It uses two values such as engine speed and engine load to calculate a value.


The ECU can use many of these tables to determine how to control something like ignition timing or fuel injector pulse width.

The most common 3d tables are Engine Speed and Engine Load dependent. Engine Speed is the RPM's. Engine Load is generally calculated by how many grams of air are flowing to the engine per revolution (g/rev). . The MAF sensor calculates what the current airflow is by measuring how many grams per second (g/sec) of air are coming into the engine. It then takes engine speed into account to convert g/sec into g/rev. This value will generally go up at higher torque levels and is generally proportional to torque output.

Most of the time the car will be between 4 of these values. Between 2 RPM points and between engine load points. These values will be weighted to come up with a desired value.

If you ever exceed the maximum value of a table the last value will be used. This makes scaling maps for increased engine loads important. You will most likely exceed the stock maps values with stage 2 tunes and sometimes even stage 1.

[size=16pt]Boost Control[/size]
I would like to show you how our ECU controls boost. Before we get into the ECU lets start with the basics of a turbo charger system. The wastegate is opened to bypass the gases from flowing through the turbo. By controlling how fast the turbo is spinning we can control our boost level and the efficiency of the turbo. The wastegate is set to open when a certain pressure is placed on them. Factory wastegate is generally between 6-9 PSI. Using Electronic Boost control solenoids (EBCS) we can limit the pressure going to the wastegate and delay the opening of the wastegate. That is how we can run more boost then wastegate boost. We control the boost control solenoid by Wastegate Duty Cycle (WGDC). At 0% WGDC the solenoid allows all pressure to go through to the wastegate and the car will operate at wastegate boost. At 100% WGDC the car should keep pressure from operating the wastegate and allow all exhaust gases to go through and spool the turbo. To control boost we are going to use a percentage of WGDC. By using a percentage the EBCS can change how much pressure the wastegate sees and we can control boost.

There are 2 types of boost control systems, Bleed type and interrupt type.


Our cars come with a bleed type system. In this system, pressure that would go to the wastegate is bled off to allow more boost. This system also uses a restrictor pill to keep pressure from entering the system. The smaller the restrictor pills hole the more boost will be allowed. The weakness of this system is it is slower to respond then the interrupt systems and can slow down spool because it doesn't bleed off the the pressure efficiently and open the wastegate before we want it to. Even at 100% WGDC there can still be enough pressure in the lines to open the solenoid.


The upgraded system would be an interrupt type. They require a 3 port Boost Control Solenoid. A 3port EBCS can be configured to work as bleed type or interrupt type. In an interrupt system pressure is stopped from going past the EBCS and only allows pressure to go through at WGDC less than 100%. By interrupting pressure going to the wastegate you can use a 3port EBCS to control boost at any level. This is a much quicker responding system and will generally require lower WGDC levels then the Factories Bleed type system.

The ECU will make changes to the wastegate duty cycle (WGDC) to control boost. There are several tables that are used to control boost. There are target tables, wastegate tables and turbo dynamics tables. In each of these tables there are also compensations made to atmospheric pressure, intake temperature and coolant temperature as well as other compensations.

The Target Boost tables establish how much boost the car wants to run. There are compensations made to this table to allow for changes at certain conditions. Keep in mind all changes are made to manifold absolute pressure not to relative pressure.
EX. With a target of 12 PSI at sea level (14.7psi) the compensations are made by a percentage of 26.7 PSI.


There are wastegate tables that control the initial and max WGDC that the ECU will use.
The initial table is used as a baseline to add turbo dynamics to. The Max WGDC is the limit as to how much wastegate duty cycle can be used. Once again compensations are made to alter these values.

The turbo dynamics tables are added to the initial WGDC to make corrections in Boost Error to achieve your target boost. These additions will not exceed the Max WGDC table. Boost error is positive if the current boost level is below target boost level. Boost error is negative if you exceed the target boost. The boost error is applied to the turbo dynamics tables to alter your WGDC to achieve a target boost. If you have positive boost error, turbo dynamics will add WGDC to achieve a target boost. If you have negative boost error, turbo dynamics will lower the WGDC to bring you back down to your target boost.
There are 2 types of Turbo Dynamics, Proportional and Integral. Proportional TD is designed for quick changes in boost error. This will make instant changes as boost fluctuates. Integral TD are designed to make changes over time, it is slower to respond to changes in boost error . This behavior is little more difficult to predict and behaves much like a sin wave. This helps to keep boost control smooth and not so reactive.



The target and wastegate tables are controlled by a 3d table of engine speed vs. requested torque. They will be explained in the Drive By Wire section of this guide.

The Boost control system can be quite complicated, but when properly tuned, works together to achieve a smooth boost curve with very little spiking or oscillating under the many conditions your car will run across.

Last edited by PhatBotti Tuning TKR; 12-01-2011 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:23 PM   #11
juanmedina
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never mind I thought it said 560whp
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:27 AM   #12
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Gauges

The best way to change your driving habits correctly is to get AFR, EGT, Coolant, Oil gauges so you know when your vehicel is/isnt happy.

A wideband will get you better gas mileage because you can watch the car switch between closed loop and open loop. You'll learn to change how your right foot behaves based on teh wideband. I just got 375 miles to a tank on my dom4xtr STi on the way to phoenix last weekend. I was pretty much in closed loop the whole time. A wideband will also keep you aware of leaks.

An egt gauge will help optimize the tune and keep things safer.

A coolant temp gauge will show you the coolant temp and you can use that information to your advantage. If you're sitting in traffic heat soaking and the coolant temp is getting up to 230*....and the traffic clears....its not the best idea to be romping WOT while the temps are still up.

2008+ STi OEM 3Bar MAP Sensor

According to Ferdie at South Coast Subaru it is a direct bolt on for prior years
- Part # for the OEM 3bar sensor is 22627AA490 ($215)
- Should read to 29psi at sea level or comparable atm pressure.
- I havent personally confirmed that the MAP sesnor will bolt onto the prior years.
- AEM 3.5 BAR + adapter = $200
- Omni 3 BAR = $100

Logger Cutting Out Issues

People have had success placing 2-3 ferrite chokers on the obd2 lines

you need 3 ferrite core chokes from radioshack. place all three in line over the wires under the dash leading to the ob2 port. should make it more reliable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STi_FTW View Post

Last edited by Phatron; 12-19-2011 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 12-01-2011, 01:13 AM   #13
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Very informative, nice job!

Edit: Perhaps you could add something about the benefits and downsides of e-tuning vs dyno. I'd imagine that's a pretty common question and you answered it very well when I asked it.

Last edited by Trixar; 12-01-2011 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:28 PM   #14
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what about some latency values, tips, trick etc...
and a brief explanation on what goes on when timing is increased and how to make a proper timing curve.
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Old 12-01-2011, 01:31 PM   #15
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Old 12-01-2011, 01:50 PM   #16
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I have been thinking of doing something like this for sometime!
Nice Job! I like this a lot
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Old 12-01-2011, 01:52 PM   #17
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^ im reading back through old threads trying to find more info to throw up and we had actually talked about it before.

anything you want me to throw up you can pm or email me and i'll put it up at the top.

ron
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Old 12-01-2011, 03:32 PM   #18
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great stuff. Thanks for taking the time to do a thread like this.
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Old 12-01-2011, 03:57 PM   #19
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Can you tell Ron is a full time engineer?? Hahaha. Yes, this is everything people need to know when dealing with us in person or over email tuning. I literally get 50-100 calls/emails/texts/PM's a day from people needing info on how to be prepared or get started tuning with us (as well as setup questions). This link is now saved in my phone. Question.. Copy and paste!! hahah

Very nice Ronald!!
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Old 12-01-2011, 04:01 PM   #20
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SUPURB!!!!! Just the data one might find helpful. I have a few questions about latency but I will likely PM you about them when the time comes.
Keep up the great work Ron!
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Old 12-01-2011, 04:11 PM   #21
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Couldn't have said it better myself


Lol Jk. Great write up! This is going to be cross linked for years to come
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Old 12-01-2011, 04:16 PM   #22
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Old 12-01-2011, 04:28 PM   #23
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great writeup!

we can always edit those links for you ron
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Old 12-01-2011, 05:37 PM   #24
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Nicely done Ron.
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Old 12-02-2011, 06:23 AM   #25
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Very nicely done - Excellent work
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