Oil Consumption and the BRZ D-S4 Boxer

[iwantmybrz]

Oil Consumption and the BRZ D-S4 Boxer

After nearly 2,800 miles of mixed driving, I was surprised to discover that I used one full quart of 0w-20 synthetic motor oil in my 2013 BRZ. I understand that this new, naturally aspirated boxer engine runs at a relatively high 12.5:1 compression ratio, and that the stock oil is a very lightweight 0w-20, but even so, I was surprised by the engine’s consumption. I did heed the owner’s manual recommendation of “driving nicely” and not exceeding 4,000 RPM during the first 1,000 miles and further realize that during the break-in period on some engines, oil consumption can be higher while the rings seat, and so on, but I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience with their D-S4 Boxer?

Thanks,

Cobra Joe

[Calamity Jesus]

Are you sure that the original oil is 0w-20? The oil I drained out of my then-new '08 STI fell out of the drain hole like water. I believe Subaru typically uses a lighter weight break-in oil than they specify for the life of the car.

[iwantmybrz]

Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus

Are you sure that the original oil is 0w-20? The oil I drained out of my then-new '08 STI fell out of the drain hole like water. I believe Subaru typically uses a lighter weight break-in oil than they specify for the life of the car.

-
While I'm not sure, after researching the oil to use in the D-S4 topic, I was advised that the stock 0w-20 oil was a lightweight synthetic developed for use in Subie's naturally aspirated boxer, and that it shares many characteristics with break-in oil. I haven't drained mine yet but plan to soon. I'll let you know if I have a similar experience.
-
Thanks,

Cobra Joe

[2point0]

I am at 3700 miles and have only lost about 1/2 qt. I'm a little late for my first oil change (3k) but that'll be this weekend.

Break-in makes a big impact on this. That easy break in of <4000rpm is going to cost you more oil later on down the road (literally and figuratively). I'm not saying bounce it off the rev limiter when you get a new car, but it needs to be broken in with some load on it.

I can't confirm if the initial oil fill is the same 0w20, but I can say that when I went to AutoZone, I only had one choice for that weight and it was a Mobil 1, which makes me . Luckily, Subaru is doing my oil changes for a while so I only need it for top-ups.

[Element Tuning]

I don't know I beat the s'not out of our FRS and raced it twice, had it on the dyno multiple times, ran it redline from day one, and in 1300 miles of that never used any oil. I changed it then as I'm not a fan of running normal oil change intervals during break-in. If you've ever cut open your oil filter on a new motor after break-in you'll understand why.

Now on a boosted high power build I would never break-in the motor this way as even 5 psi of boost has more power and cylinder pressure than this car. Without adequate cylinder pressure its much harder to seat these hard steel rings. I think the guys that babied this engine too much are going to be the ones who didn't get a fast ring seat and will pay the price, maybe just initially, with more oil consumption.

Also as oil breaks down you'll use much more. So in many cases you'll see no oil consumption in 1000the miles, then 1/2 quart at 2000the miles, and then a full quart between 2-3kthe miles. Just get in a habit of checking that oil at least every other gas fill up.

[mexicanmissile]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

I don't know I beat the s'not out of our FRS and raced it twice, had it on the dyno multiple times, ran it redline from day one, and in 1300 miles of that never used any oil. I changed it then as I'm not a fan of running normal oil change intervals during break-in. If you've ever cut open your oil filter on a new motor after break-in you'll understand why.

Now on a boosted high power build I would never break-in the motor this way as even 5 psi of boost has more power and cylinder pressure than this car. Without adequate cylinder pressure its much harder to seat these hard steel rings. I think the guys that babied this engine too much are going to be the ones who didn't get a fast ring seat and will pay the price, maybe just initially, with more oil consumption.

Also as oil breaks down you'll use much more. So in many cases you'll see no oil consumption in 1000the miles, then 1/2 quart at 2000the miles, and then a full quart between 2-3kthe miles. Just get in a habit of checking that oil at least every other gas fill up.

Good info. I replaced my new 2013 Impreza's oil and filter at 1k miles since I have seen not in a car filter but in high performance race motorcycles what you describe inside the filter. Ive been thinking of switching the 0w20 subaru synthetic oil recommended to a Motul . Any recommendations? has anyone here actually used 0w20 and had sucess for long term engine life? It seems real lite and I feel that thats why once the engine has been run for over 30 min, it gets noisy as the oil breaks down.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by mexicanmissile

Good info. I replaced my new 2013 Impreza's oil and filter at 1k miles since I have seen not in a car filter but in high performance race motorcycles what you describe inside the filter. Ive been thinking of switching the 0w20 subaru synthetic oil recommended to a Motul . Any recommendations? has anyone here actually used 0w20 and had sucess for long term engine life? It seems real lite and I feel that thats why once the engine has been run for over 30 min, it gets noisy as the oil breaks down.

It's because the 0-20w is like water that it gets noisy when broken down. Honestly there is zero chance when I get serious into racing this engine that I will be running a 0-20w oil and will likely switch to a 10-30/40 or something of that nature.

The 0 weight oils are more efficient and may net a couple HP over a thicker oil but honestly under hard conditions such as racing or when the oil breaks down it's not worth the trade off (especially if boosting the motor).

Thanks,
Phil Grabow

[Element Tuning]

My smart phone isn't so smart and even I can spell better (see it tried to change that to veteran) than it. LOL

[GTerran]

'babied' my break in and have yet to see ANY oil drop...

[thunderchicken]

Originally Posted by iwantmybrz

Oil Consumption and the BRZ D-S4 Boxer

After nearly 2,800 miles of mixed driving, I was surprised to discover that I used one full quart of 0w-20 synthetic motor oil in my 2013 BRZ. I understand that this new, naturally aspirated boxer engine runs at a relatively high 12.5:1 compression ratio, and that the stock oil is a very lightweight 0w-20, but even so, I was surprised by the engine’s consumption. I did heed the owner’s manual recommendation of “driving nicely” and not exceeding 4,000 RPM during the first 1,000 miles and further realize that during the break-in period on some engines, oil consumption can be higher while the rings seat, and so on, but I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience with their D-S4 Boxer?

Thanks,

Cobra Joe

This is what the owners manual says: If your vehicle consumes more than 1.1 qt. (1.0 L, 0.9 Imp. qt.) every 600 miles (1000 km), contact your SUBARU dealer.

[79letour]

Originally Posted by thunderchicken

This is what the owners manual says: If your vehicle consumes more than 1.1 qt. (1.0 L, 0.9 Imp. qt.) every 600 miles (1000 km), contact your SUBARU dealer.

Dang, and I thought the quart per 1200mi allowance on my Impreza was lame.
How much oil is acceptable to YOU to burn in 600 miles?
My impreza, with its 7500mi oc interval, and the factory accepable limits, can "ACCEPTABLY" consume 6.25 quarts per interval. It holds 5.3, so theoretically, i could have to purchase 11.55 quarts of oil to drive 7500 miles. I dont know if the BRZ has the same oil change schedule as the Imp, but if it does, that means it would be factory acceptable to burn 12.5 quarts per cycle!!!!

[79letour]

actually, i did the math wrong>>>
it would be more like 16.5
add that to the six quarts to do a change, and thats a theoretical 22.5 quarts of oil you could have to purchase if your rings dont seat. at around $7/quart, thats $157.50 just in oil!

[2point0]

BRZ has first oil change @ 3k, then 7.5k, then every 7.5k after that.

A qt. in 600 miles is !

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by 2point0

BRZ has first oil change @ 3k, then 7.5k, then every 7.5k after that.

A qt. in 600 miles is !

Subaru service manual says not until 7500.

[2point0]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

Subaru service manual says not until 7500.

Maybe it's because of the dealer covering my oil changes, but the paperwork said first one at 3k. They already did it and I didn't have to pay, so I'm cool with that.

[fukamoto]

I notices that as well but I got a letter from Subaru saying my 3750 mile maintainence is due but on the brz manual nothing shows up for the 3750 service

[79letour]

Seriously- DON'T wait till 30k to check/replace the air filter. idk why they don't reccomend replacement at 15k. Heck- mine was toast after 10k on my 12' Imp.

[Angelus911]

Interesting to see people with the BRZ and Impreza engines having issues with oil consumption. Does anyone know if people experienced the same issue with the new Forester engine as well?

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by Angelus911

Interesting to see people with the BRZ and Impreza engines having issues with oil consumption. Does anyone know if people experienced the same issue with the new Forester engine as well?

Yep!

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulle...lot-oil-96178/

A 5W-20 might be a bit more stable, even more stable than a 5W-30 that usually shears to a 20 weight. You can also try a higher HTHS oil or one with a very low NOACK volatility. Problem is that very few companies post NOACK numbers.

I would be running some Motul 300V or Red Line 0W-20. You don't need no stinkin' API certification! I was surprised to see 10W-40 and 5W-40 in the BRZ Sports Parts STi catalog.
http://www.sti.jp/parts/catalogue/brz_zc6/7.html

-Dennis

[chanomatik]

Although the STI oil is mostly for racing application, it also says it's okay for the street. I don't know enough about oil to know if this practice is acceptable or not just because Japan says it's okay. I don't even know if they keep their vehicles past 100k miles (I heard they usually don't because of a certain law concerning acceptable working conditions of the vehicle after so many miles) to notice any long-term affects of such heavy weight.

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

Although the STI oil is mostly for racing application, it also says it's okay for the street. I don't know enough about oil to know if this practice is acceptable or not just because Japan says it's okay. I don't even know if they keep their vehicles past 100k miles (I heard they usually don't because of a certain law concerning acceptable working conditions of the vehicle after so many miles) to notice any long-term affects of such heavy weight.

It's Motul Racing oil so it's likely repackaged 300V. They do have a 0W-20 oil, but none of the 300V line has been submitted for API testing because it has higher levels of moly, zinc, and phosphorus. http://www.motul.com/us/en-US/products/628?f
It does have enough detergents/dispersants for street use which is probably the same for the STI oil.

Several years ago, someone here asked SoA if they would be covered under warranty if they ran Red Line 5W-30. SoA said yes, because it was "recommended for" API SM (at the time) applications. Although it's not API "certified". Red Line 5W-30 has an HTHS on par with 40 weights.

Motul does make a 0W-20 street oil as well, but it has a very low High Temp High Shear. Lower than even Mobil1 0W-20.
http://www.motul.com/us/en-US/products/49?f

Motul nor Mobil lists NOACK. But Red Line, Amsoil, and Valvoline all list it.
http://valvoline.com/pdf/synpower.pdf
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=124&pcid=21
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/xlz.aspx

More about NOACK:

The evaporation loss is of particular importance in engine lubrication. Where high temperatures occur, portions of an oil can evaporate. Evaporation may contribute to oil consumption in an engine and can lead to a change in the properties of an oil.

http://www.pqiamerica.com/noack.htm

-Dennis

[neg_matnik]

Originally Posted by Angelus911

Interesting to see people with the BRZ and Impreza engines having issues with oil consumption. Does anyone know if people experienced the same issue with the new Forester engine as well?

I have an UOA (7,500 miles to 14,500 miles) showing that Mobil1 0W20 seems to hold up fine in a FB25 engine but I had to add a quart of oil in the interval.
I'll admit that my wife or I are not driving our 2011 Forester nearly as hard as I would drive a BRZ on my own .
Although, I have taken the FB25 past 6K RPM on multiple occasions (while overtaking or going uphill). I'm about to have another UOA done for the 14,500 to 21,500 interval. I haven't had to add any oil in this latest interval, however, I cheated since I mixed 2 quarts of Mobil1 0W30 along with the 3.5 quarts of 0W20 .

[Uncle Scotty]

The evaporation loss is of particular importance in engine lubrication. Where high temperatures occur, portions of an oil can evaporate. Evaporation may contribute to oil consumption in an engine and can lead to a change in the properties of an oil.

geeee....wonder who has been saying that here for years and years and nobody wants to listen

I don't know enough about oil to know.......


to notice any long-term affects of such heavy weight.

5w40 and 10w40 are not 'such heavy weight'

you are FAR more likely to see long term affects of too LIGHT an oil being used

MPG-MPG-MPG
THAT is the reason for the piss spec oil being 'recommended'......they care NOTHING about the engine life other than it making it past warranty....NOTHING
they DO care about lost sales due to lower mpg ratings

and in japan they rarely keep cars past 50k - 60k kilometers

[chanomatik]

Thanks for clearing that up Mr. Scotty, sir, and welcome back.

[No Limit Motorsport]

I have been selling a fair bit of this on the FT86club.com forums. No one has mentioned oil consumption to me. Perhaps because its a bit thicker than the 20w

http://www.motul.com/us/en-US/products/56?f[range]=25&f[viscosity]=43




This is also a good option if you have the money...

http://www.motul.com/us/en-US/products/631?f[range]=25&f[viscosity]=33




We pick our BRZ up at the dealer today. At 1000 miles I am going to switch it over to the 5W-30 300V. I will report my experience.