1st day at track opinions on my time

smggtr · 10-08-2012, 07:10 PM

Now this was 4th pass and best but my first time at a track.
Its an 05 sti. full exhaust but bad header it may still have a crack. catless up pipe and downpipe. high flow final cat. cold air intake at 16.5 psi. 8.5:1 forged pistons. stock top mount
What do you think about how my car is running and what it might run with a good launch. I was a soft on my launching. and slow into 5th with a bit of lag on spool due to that.

reaction - .5814
60ft - 2.2264
330ft - 5.9882
594ft - 8.4692
1/8 - 9.0162
1/8 mph - 82.26
1/4 - 13.8048
1/4 mph - 102.63

Extreme Turbo Systems · 10-08-2012, 07:19 PM

not bad. 60' could use a little work but overall for the first time at a track, its good. congrats man. Hopefully you had fun! that's what its all about. An ETS TMIC would help keep the air cool and really help on the top end. ;-)

424wrx · 10-08-2012, 08:49 PM

not bad. my first time was 3 weeks ago. i went 13.30@ 103. my 08 wrx is vf52 swapped and stage3 with a perrin tmic and tomei el headers. im running 22 psi. my best 60ft was a 1.99. lanching was hard to master. with some practice, 12s are within reach. op, it is a rush racing though right?? i had a blast. im looking foward to going again in the spring. my other times were a 13.39,13.6 and a 13.7. i was getting pretty heat soaked by the 13.7 pass.

CTSparky · 10-09-2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smggtr

Now this was 4th pass and best but my first time at a track.
Its an 05 sti. full exhaust but bad header it may still have a crack. catless up pipe and downpipe. high flow final cat. cold air intake at 16.5 psi. 8.5:1 forged pistons. stock top mount
What do you think about how my car is running and what it might run with a good launch. I was a soft on my launching. and slow into 5th with a bit of lag on spool due to that.

reaction - .5814
60ft - 2.2264
330ft - 5.9882
594ft - 8.4692
1/8 - 9.0162
1/8 mph - 82.26
1/4 - 13.8048
1/4 mph - 102.63

Dear OP I'm not a 1/4mi track god but I've started doing some track stuff now and again. I've also searched out on 1/4mile threads to see what I need to do to be competitive.

for a new person a .5814 RT is ok. If the tree is a .500 tree then you should release the clutch on the third light. If on a pro tree you should release the clutch when the yellows light up.

a 2.2 60ft is slow.... I think that perhaps you are bogging, and therefore not launching from as high as an RPM as you should. There are other factors to take into account and I'll ask that at the end.

your quarter mile time is high. I'd expect a 05 sti with a full exhaust including a header to be in the high 12's. your MPH also suggests this.

The real question:
If you have a rebuilt block (forged pistons) and a full exhaust, then why are you running such a relatively low boost pressure? I'd expect at least 18lbs. but with a built block your engine could handle 24 lbs (your turbo maybe not, but the block could) Maybe the header leak is preventing this?

So why are you so low? how are you recording it? Is it a bad gauge or a poor tune, or you just being very conservative.

I hope this helps.

k04sti · 10-10-2012, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTSparky

Dear OP I'm not a 1/4mi track god but I've started doing some track stuff now and again. I've also searched out on 1/4mile threads to see what I need to do to be competitive.

for a new person a .5814 RT is ok. If the tree is a .500 tree then you should release the clutch on the third light. If on a pro tree you should release the clutch when the yellows light up.

a 2.2 60ft is slow.... I think that perhaps you are bogging, and therefore not launching from as high as an RPM as you should. There are other factors to take into account and I'll ask that at the end.

your quarter mile time is high. I'd expect a 05 sti with a full exhaust including a header to be in the high 12's. your MPH also suggests this.

The real question:
If you have a rebuilt block (forged pistons) and a full exhaust, then why are you running such a relatively low boost pressure? I'd expect at least 18lbs. but with a built block your engine could handle 24 lbs (your turbo maybe not, but the block could) Maybe the header leak is preventing this?

So why are you so low? how are you recording it? Is it a bad gauge or a poor tune, or you just being very conservative.

I hope this helps.

So much false information here where do I begin. First off, bogging is not because he is not launching at a high enough rpm. He is bogging because he is dropping the clutch too fast.

Also, his mph which is 102 does not suggest a 12 second 1/4 mile time. Also, higher boost does not mean more power especially on the stock turbo. He should not be boosting 24 lb because this would not be efficient on his turbo.

Please don't post information that you are not sure of because you will mislead the community and you obviously don't know what you are talking about.

CTSparky · 10-10-2012, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k04sti

So much false information here where do I begin. First off, bogging is not because he is not launching at a high enough rpm. He is bogging because he is dropping the clutch too fast.

Also, his mph which is 102 does not suggest a 12 second 1/4 mile time. Also, higher boost does not mean more power especially on the stock turbo. He should not be boosting 24 lb because this would not be efficient on his turbo.

Please don't post information that you are not sure of because you will mislead the community and you obviously don't know what you are talking about.

I admit to not being very experienced in this application. In fairness I'm just trying to help.

So what would a 102 trap speed equate to?

He could be bogging from letting up too fast or too low a rpm, or not letting go on the upswing of the tach (building boost). There are many reasons. Even the OP says he was soft on the launch.

With a forged block what boost pressure is the engine capable to?

If on a stock turbo a 2005 is a vf39 which can get up to about 300whp when everything is addressed. That is if the OP has a stock turbo. and on this turbo about 20lbs is at the end of it's efficiency.

k04sti · 10-11-2012, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTSparky

I admit to not being very experienced in this application. In fairness I'm just trying to help.

So what would a 102 trap speed equate to?

He could be bogging from letting up too fast or too low a rpm, or not letting go on the upswing of the tach (building boost). There are many reasons. Even the OP says he was soft on the launch.

With a forged block what boost pressure is the engine capable to?

If on a stock turbo a 2005 is a vf39 which can get up to about 300whp when everything is addressed. That is if the OP has a stock turbo. and on this turbo about 20lbs is at the end of it's efficiency.

102 trap speed is around stock / stage 1 and is 13 seconds. Bogging the car is not from rpm at all. Even if you launch the car at 3k rpms you don't bog because the rpms are too low. You bog the car because you are letting the clutch out too fast.

Steve.804 · 10-11-2012, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smggtr

Oh the turbo is not stock but I have no idea the make of it because there is no manufacture label on the turbo anywhere. But on the inlet wheel it has the larger fins plus shorter fins inbetween if someone knows who makes it that way id like to know. Ive seen a couple pictures of the blouch with those type of fins. It has a mbc and gets to the set psi easy in 3000rpm range and is steady all the way to 7000.
The cracked header is minor i think because it was welded but the little bit hidden in the collector could not be reached.
I wanted mostly street use so wanted the lower psi. Before all the fixing it was set high and easily hitting 26psi.

As for the launching i dont know the best way. And really did not launch. that time was at maybe 3000rpm or just under with a little slip taking off.

the only built part of the engine is the pistons the rest is stock parts. dont know high to aim for in turbo pressure.

Hmm I wonder what turbo your car has on it

My biggest recommendation to you is to find a reputable shop in your area. A quick google search I did came up with Speed Industry located in Troy MI. I'd have them do a complete vehicle check and sort out any leaks (header, intercooler, vaccum, etc.) and retune the car for the highest grade of pump gas available in your area.

Do you have a complete mod list? Or at least details on the fuel system? What are you using to tune with? AccessPort?

Steve.804 · 10-10-2012, 11:57 AM

Really tough to give insight because if you have a crack in the header the car may be a bit faster than it appears. 16.5psi is a little low but increasing that is really just going to make more peak torque and midrange. The stock turbo cannot sustain anything above that at high rpm (mine was around 15.5psi at 7k) because it is simply too small so it won't help with the quartermile. More boost is not the answer for a quicker time or faster trap speed.

Ignore reaction time. It plays NO ROLL in the end result of your quartermile time. Your first time out you should be as calm and relaxed as possible, concentrate on the launch and leave at your own time. May not want to sleep at the tree for a couple of minutes but a few seconds is fine.

2.2 60ft is slow for an AWD vehicle. Do some research on how to properly launch or send me a PM and I can review with you my technique on the stock turbo that always worked well and consistant for me.

Your 330ft isn't terrible considering the 60ft but you want to get that as close to 5.0 as possible. That will come as you get better at the 1st-2nd shift and as your vehicle makes the proper power.

Also, drag racing is pretty abusive, I personally wouldn't take my car out there and beat the hell out of it unless it is running flawlessly.

smggtr · 10-10-2012, 06:13 PM

Oh the turbo is not stock but I have no idea the make of it because there is no manufacture label on the turbo anywhere. But on the inlet wheel it has the larger fins plus shorter fins inbetween if someone knows who makes it that way id like to know. Ive seen a couple pictures of the blouch with those type of fins. It has a mbc and gets to the set psi easy in 3000rpm range and is steady all the way to 7000.
The cracked header is minor i think because it was welded but the little bit hidden in the collector could not be reached.
I wanted mostly street use so wanted the lower psi. Before all the fixing it was set high and easily hitting 26psi.

As for the launching i dont know the best way. And really did not launch. that time was at maybe 3000rpm or just under with a little slip taking off.

the only built part of the engine is the pistons the rest is stock parts. dont know high to aim for in turbo pressure.

Mike Costin · 10-10-2012, 06:15 PM

Two things to work on before you go out again, your launch and shifting. You can practice in a parking lot and on the highway, respectively.

Launching: Let out the clutch until the drivetrain engages and the car wants to move, then push it back in a tiny amount. Rev the engine up to around 4,500 RPM and release the clutch somewhat quickly but not ninja fast.

Once you get that down you can rev the engine up to around 4,500 RPM and then repeatedly blip the throttle very quickly so that the revs drop to 4,000 and then shoot up to 5,000 RPM, drop to 4,000 RPM, raise to 5,000 RPM, and so on. After a few of these blips when the revs are on an upswing towards 5,000 RPM let the clutch out the same way. This should improve your 60' compared to launching at a fixed RPM.

The clutch shouldn't smell too badly. Lift if you get bad wheel hop. Don't do too many launches in a row.

Shifting: Shift 1st and 2nd gear at red line. You may want to stay in 1st gear for a couple bounces off the rev limiter in case you are spinning tires. 1st to 2nd can be a slow shift depending on your synchros, don't force that one too hard. Practice shifting 2-3, 3-4, etc. fast enough that the car doesn't jerk. Keep your foot on the accelerator pedal when you shift, and only lightly lift it so you don't hit overrun. This should help with reducing the jerk and maintaining boost.

Like everyone says, ignore reaction time until you start racing. If you are next to a loud car it is sometimes best to wait a few seconds for them to launch and disappear before you initiate your launch procedure.

Don't worry about peak boost at this point. That initial surge of torque will wear your clutch and break the drivetrain faster and will not improve your quarter mile performance significantly. A exhaust manifold is a concern, a broken car should only be driven to limp it home.

NSFW · 10-12-2012, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve.804

2.2 60ft is slow for an AWD vehicle. Do some research on how to properly launch or send me a PM and I can review with you my technique on the stock turbo that always worked well and consistant for me.

Any chance you could post it here for more of us to learn from?

I have a couple of techniques depending on the track, but I'm still looking for other ideas.

If the track will allow rear wheelspin, I'll set DCCD completely open, rev to about 5k, then simultaneously lift quickly off the clutch ("like you just stepped in dog **** by mistake" as one guy here put it) and floor the throttle. Almost a clutch dump, but not quite, as I really don't want to break an axle and I am pretty sure I have enough torque to do that. Basically I spin the rear wheels instead of slipping the clutch. I've done my best launches this way (1.6, 1.7, and maybe even a 1.38 but that was probably just a timing glitch). But launching this way depends a lot on the track.

If the track is too sticky for wheelspin, I rev to 4000, hold it, then floor it and release the clutch just slowly enough to avoid bogging. That's gotten me consistent 1.8s. I haven't tried blipping the throttle yet to build boost but I am sure it would help. When I get more consistent with this simpler approach I'll try adding the throttle blips.

I prefer the wheelspin approach because replacing tires is less work than replacing clutches. And I'm more consistent with it, even though I have a lot more practice with the clutch-slip approach.

mtarr07 · 10-11-2012, 09:33 AM

^ I strongly agree with the poster above.

You have a nice car and spent your hard earned money on it. I wouldn't go beating on it at the track when/ if you think something is wrong with it. Bring it to a shop nearby. Figure out if there really is a crack/ leak somewhere, fix it, then get tuned properly at a power level you are comfortable with/ is safe for the car.

ByeBye4g63t · 10-11-2012, 10:53 PM

I did a 13.2 at 101 with cyl #4 on low compression (ringland) so your time is pretty bad no offense. Considering your trap speed, A very high 12 might be possible, but a 13.1ish is probably about all it has in it. Get that 60 ft down! I did consistent 1.8's and 1.7's on a basic stage 2 '04, I don't see why you can't achieve that considering you trapped 1mph better than me.

wrxlaunch · 10-12-2012, 07:13 AM

Really slow my dude... My bugeye ran 13.9 bone stock.

TwinscrollGT35R · 10-13-2012, 02:13 AM

This is a good thread so far. I have never run my car with the last build. Once its up and running I want to go out.

How many of you are using cobbs launch control and flat foot shifting?

NSFW · 10-13-2012, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinscrollGT35R

How many of you are using cobbs launch control and flat foot shifting?

...or "open source" LC/FFS ?

("open source" in quotes because the most popular version isn't)

I have experimented with them a bit off-track, but not yet at a track, so I'm more interested in reading about them than in writing about them...

NSFW · 10-13-2012, 02:43 PM

Has anyone noticed their car stumbling on 1-2 shifts in a way than never happens in 2-3 or 3-4 or 4-5 shifts? If anyone has any theories about why the 1-2 shift is different, I'd love to hear them. The motor seems to fall on its face more often than not, like the power doesn't come on until well after I've released the clutch and floored the throttle.

This happens with and without FFS... it's particularly blatant with FFS since power ought to just come on like a light-switch, same as every other shift.

The 1-2 shift is still really hard to get right, and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, but FFS works great for 2-3 and 3-4.

NateLS1 · 10-13-2012, 05:28 PM

I noticed my ecu learned to pull timing due to flat foot shifting. My problem was especially noticeable once I hit 4th gear, it had no balls for a couple hundred rpm, then like a lightswitch it just kicked in the engine had power again.

wrx2007sti · 10-14-2012, 10:18 AM

great

silverboost0303 · 10-14-2012, 10:36 AM

Just gotta get the launch down. And it's tough to practice because you don't want to break anything. I went 13.1 at 104 with a crappy 1.967 60ft. The cracked header may be playing a huge role. Not bad for your first time though. My first time at the track, I had an 03 bugeye with an untuned up, and blitz tbe and went 13.9@99. Don't remember my 60ft. I was frightened when I smelled the clutch lol.

10-08-2012, 07:10 PM	#1
smggtr Scooby Newbie Member#: 305515 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Michigan Vehicle: 2005 Impreza sti blue	1st day at track opinions on my time Now this was 4th pass and best but my first time at a track. Its an 05 sti. full exhaust but bad header it may still have a crack. catless up pipe and downpipe. high flow final cat. cold air intake at 16.5 psi. 8.5:1 forged pistons. stock top mount What do you think about how my car is running and what it might run with a good launch. I was a soft on my launching. and slow into 5th with a bit of lag on spool due to that. reaction - .5814 60ft - 2.2264 330ft - 5.9882 594ft - 8.4692 1/8 - 9.0162 1/8 mph - 82.26 1/4 - 13.8048 1/4 mph - 102.63

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10-08-2012, 07:19 PM	#2
Extreme Turbo Systems NASIOC Vendor Member#: 194655 Join Date: Nov 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Vancouver, WA Vehicle: 08 STI White	not bad. 60' could use a little work but overall for the first time at a track, its good. congrats man. Hopefully you had fun! that's what its all about. An ETS TMIC would help keep the air cool and really help on the top end. ;-)

10-08-2012, 08:49 PM	#3
424wrx Scooby Specialist Member#: 171948 Join Date: Feb 2008 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: new york Vehicle: 08 wrx prem sedan vf52 swap. bilstein susp	not bad. my first time was 3 weeks ago. i went 13.30@ 103. my 08 wrx is vf52 swapped and stage3 with a perrin tmic and tomei el headers. im running 22 psi. my best 60ft was a 1.99. lanching was hard to master. with some practice, 12s are within reach. op, it is a rush racing though right?? i had a blast. im looking foward to going again in the spring. my other times were a 13.39,13.6 and a 13.7. i was getting pretty heat soaked by the 13.7 pass.

10-10-2012, 11:57 AM	#9
Steve.804 Scooby Specialist Member#: 68647 Join Date: Aug 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Richmond, VA Vehicle: 07 STI Rotated 35R Jorge Tuned	Really tough to give insight because if you have a crack in the header the car may be a bit faster than it appears. 16.5psi is a little low but increasing that is really just going to make more peak torque and midrange. The stock turbo cannot sustain anything above that at high rpm (mine was around 15.5psi at 7k) because it is simply too small so it won't help with the quartermile. More boost is not the answer for a quicker time or faster trap speed. Ignore reaction time. It plays NO ROLL in the end result of your quartermile time. Your first time out you should be as calm and relaxed as possible, concentrate on the launch and leave at your own time. May not want to sleep at the tree for a couple of minutes but a few seconds is fine. 2.2 60ft is slow for an AWD vehicle. Do some research on how to properly launch or send me a PM and I can review with you my technique on the stock turbo that always worked well and consistant for me. Your 330ft isn't terrible considering the 60ft but you want to get that as close to 5.0 as possible. That will come as you get better at the 1st-2nd shift and as your vehicle makes the proper power. Also, drag racing is pretty abusive, I personally wouldn't take my car out there and beat the hell out of it unless it is running flawlessly.

10-10-2012, 06:13 PM	#10
smggtr Scooby Newbie Member#: 305515 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Michigan Vehicle: 2005 Impreza sti blue	Oh the turbo is not stock but I have no idea the make of it because there is no manufacture label on the turbo anywhere. But on the inlet wheel it has the larger fins plus shorter fins inbetween if someone knows who makes it that way id like to know. Ive seen a couple pictures of the blouch with those type of fins. It has a mbc and gets to the set psi easy in 3000rpm range and is steady all the way to 7000. The cracked header is minor i think because it was welded but the little bit hidden in the collector could not be reached. I wanted mostly street use so wanted the lower psi. Before all the fixing it was set high and easily hitting 26psi. As for the launching i dont know the best way. And really did not launch. that time was at maybe 3000rpm or just under with a little slip taking off. the only built part of the engine is the pistons the rest is stock parts. dont know high to aim for in turbo pressure.

10-10-2012, 06:15 PM	#11
Mike Costin Scooby Specialist Member#: 131787 Join Date: Nov 2006 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Sandy Hook Vehicle: 06 STI,OB,OME XJs Merkur Junkyard	Two things to work on before you go out again, your launch and shifting. You can practice in a parking lot and on the highway, respectively. Launching: Let out the clutch until the drivetrain engages and the car wants to move, then push it back in a tiny amount. Rev the engine up to around 4,500 RPM and release the clutch somewhat quickly but not ninja fast. Once you get that down you can rev the engine up to around 4,500 RPM and then repeatedly blip the throttle very quickly so that the revs drop to 4,000 and then shoot up to 5,000 RPM, drop to 4,000 RPM, raise to 5,000 RPM, and so on. After a few of these blips when the revs are on an upswing towards 5,000 RPM let the clutch out the same way. This should improve your 60' compared to launching at a fixed RPM. The clutch shouldn't smell too badly. Lift if you get bad wheel hop. Don't do too many launches in a row. Shifting: Shift 1st and 2nd gear at red line. You may want to stay in 1st gear for a couple bounces off the rev limiter in case you are spinning tires. 1st to 2nd can be a slow shift depending on your synchros, don't force that one too hard. Practice shifting 2-3, 3-4, etc. fast enough that the car doesn't jerk. Keep your foot on the accelerator pedal when you shift, and only lightly lift it so you don't hit overrun. This should help with reducing the jerk and maintaining boost. Like everyone says, ignore reaction time until you start racing. If you are next to a loud car it is sometimes best to wait a few seconds for them to launch and disappear before you initiate your launch procedure. Don't worry about peak boost at this point. That initial surge of torque will wear your clutch and break the drivetrain faster and will not improve your quarter mile performance significantly. A exhaust manifold is a concern, a broken car should only be driven to limp it home.

10-11-2012, 09:33 AM	#13
mtarr07 Scooby Specialist Member#: 246990 Join Date: May 2010 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: NOVA Vehicle: 2010 Wrx	^ I strongly agree with the poster above. You have a nice car and spent your hard earned money on it. I wouldn't go beating on it at the track when/ if you think something is wrong with it. Bring it to a shop nearby. Figure out if there really is a crack/ leak somewhere, fix it, then get tuned properly at a power level you are comfortable with/ is safe for the car.

10-11-2012, 10:53 PM	#14
ByeBye4g63t Scooby Newbie Member#: 290896 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Phoenix, Az Vehicle: 2004 STi, FOR SALE PSM	I did a 13.2 at 101 with cyl #4 on low compression (ringland) so your time is pretty bad no offense. Considering your trap speed, A very high 12 might be possible, but a 13.1ish is probably about all it has in it. Get that 60 ft down! I did consistent 1.8's and 1.7's on a basic stage 2 '04, I don't see why you can't achieve that considering you trapped 1mph better than me.

10-12-2012, 07:13 AM	#15
wrxlaunch Scooby Specialist Member#: 181298 Join Date: May 2008 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: MD Vehicle: 02 , Vf43 Inside.. 12 seconds at a time	Really slow my dude... My bugeye ran 13.9 bone stock.

10-13-2012, 02:13 AM	#16
TwinscrollGT35R Scooby Specialist Member#: 256810 Join Date: Sep 2010 Chapter/Region: International	This is a good thread so far. I have never run my car with the last build. Once its up and running I want to go out. How many of you are using cobbs launch control and flat foot shifting?

10-13-2012, 02:43 PM	#18
NSFW Scooby Guru Member#: 140444 Join Date: Feb 2007 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Near Seattle, WA Vehicle: 05 Stage Free LGT ATP 3076, 6MT, AVO FMIC	Has anyone noticed their car stumbling on 1-2 shifts in a way than never happens in 2-3 or 3-4 or 4-5 shifts? If anyone has any theories about why the 1-2 shift is different, I'd love to hear them. The motor seems to fall on its face more often than not, like the power doesn't come on until well after I've released the clutch and floored the throttle. This happens with and without FFS... it's particularly blatant with FFS since power ought to just come on like a light-switch, same as every other shift. The 1-2 shift is still really hard to get right, and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, but FFS works great for 2-3 and 3-4.

10-13-2012, 05:28 PM	#19
NateLS1 Scooby Newbie Member#: 132380 Join Date: Nov 2006 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Cape Cod, MA Vehicle: 2004 WRX rojo	I noticed my ecu learned to pull timing due to flat foot shifting. My problem was especially noticeable once I hit 4th gear, it had no balls for a couple hundred rpm, then like a lightswitch it just kicked in the engine had power again.

10-14-2012, 10:18 AM	#20
wrx2007sti Scooby Newbie Member#: 335058 Join Date: Oct 2012 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Dearborn, Michigan Vehicle: 2007 STI	great

10-14-2012, 10:36 AM	#21
silverboost0303 Scooby Newbie Member#: 83266 Join Date: Mar 2005 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Springfield, MA Vehicle: 2011 WRX Sedan SWP	Just gotta get the launch down. And it's tough to practice because you don't want to break anything. I went 13.1 at 104 with a crappy 1.967 60ft. The cracked header may be playing a huge role. Not bad for your first time though. My first time at the track, I had an 03 bugeye with an untuned up, and blitz tbe and went 13.9@99. Don't remember my 60ft. I was frightened when I smelled the clutch lol.