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Old 11-11-2012, 11:04 PM   #1
dburgoon
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Default FMIC vs TMIC? give me the pro's and con's

First off I searched! Now with that out of the way:

When I bought my 02 wrx it came with a FMIC installed. I didn't think much of it, as I planned on going with a rotated setup, but I have changed my mind and decided just to do a vf39 set-up. So in comes the question.

Right now I know the front mount is an overkill with the stock turbo, but from what I have been told it is actually robbing me of power due to turbo lag and other things. Is this true?

Also when I switch to a vf39 I was thinking of just doing a top-mount, but will the front mount be alright or will I run into the same issues as I do now?

How does the top mount differ from the front mount as far as lag, and performance?
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:34 PM   #2
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:51 PM   #3
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Personally, I'd do a front mount even on my 2.0L TD-04.

A properly installed FMIC will generally give you lower temperatures all year round. It's going to add a little lag to the TD-04, but I think the gains overweigh the losses. Plus if you do decide to upgrade to the VF-39 or bigger turbo, you won't need to worry later on about cooling.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:56 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubert69 View Post

A properly installed FMIC will generally give you lower temperatures all year round.
Please provide intercooler efficiency data to back this up and I will paypal you $20. I've been waiting for someone to win $20 from me since 2001.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:06 AM   #5
Jubert69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
Please provide intercooler efficiency data to back this up and I will paypal you $20. I've been waiting for someone to win $20 from me since 2001.
So are you disagreeing that it does NOT cool down temperature? With your logic and point of view, people shouldn't go front mount with any size turbo. 20g, 30r, 35r, etc.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
Please provide intercooler efficiency data to back this up and I will paypal you $20. I've been waiting for someone to win $20 from me since 2001.
Time for me to do some data testing with a IAT sensor with my FMIC and stock TMIC

But for what it's worth in this argument a FMIC adds lag according to rpm but if you calculate the time you may be getting to that time faster then what you were with the TMIC. You can just say oh I spooled 200rpm later cause you have to see how much time it takes to get to that rpm...

In my experience I switched from my stock TMIC with a VF43 WRX to the massive Perrin FMIC. I gained 150rpm lag by rpm but when I check the time I actually gained some spool as we could add more timing and lean the car out some.

On a aftermarket TMIC things may be different as most flow way better then the stock TMIC so it is your choice but I say FMIC FTW! Plus it looks BA

Last edited by ppayer38; 11-12-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppayer38 View Post
Time for me to do some data testing with a IAT sensor with my FMIC and stock TMIC
Nice try....IAT plays zero role in intercooler effeciency. The problem with FMIC vs. TMIC is there has never been effeciency data for either at SPEED. Some ***** Home Depot fan does not replicate real world conditions in terms of flow. The ony way to REALLY test would be to use a MAHA dyno with its optional $5000 fan or TEMP IN/TEMP OUT gauges on the intercooler at speed along with virtual dyno software with a slight lead towards the MAHA option being the better of the two.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
Nice try....IAT plays zero role in intercooler effeciency. The problem with FMIC vs. TMIC is there has never been effeciency data for either at SPEED. Some ***** Home Depot fan does not replicate real world conditions in terms of flow. The ony way to REALLY test would be to use a MAHA dyno with its optional $5000 fan or TEMP IN/TEMP OUT gauges on the intercooler at speed along with virtual dyno software with a slight lead towards the MAHA option being the better of the two.
Guess I should of explained IAT in my terms as I have mine mounted in the IC pipe near the TB so all I would have to do is mount another just after the turbo and figure a way to read the data...

I agree that it is hard to get real world data as each will have to be retuned. Just throwing a FMIC on and only tuning it for the MAF readings is useless so a complete retune is required to get the best gains out of each IC which ten throws a completely different variable into the equation. :|

Ron we will have to get together on a weekend and try this once 1 of us comes up with the $$$ to pay for it haha
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:55 PM   #9
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if you go tmic. would you possibly sell me your fmic??
either way man goodluck with your decision.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:22 AM   #10
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I believe unabomber is referring to the thought that a aftermarket fmic is better then a aftermarket tmic,id personnaly stick with a tmic especially if your going to a vf39 and not rotated.

An sti tmic would be sufficent on the vf39 set up.i think the fmic is overkill.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:33 AM   #11
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A FMIC will make more power if you have the ability to make that power regarding airflow/location period.

That being said a TMIC can make good power. You can literally get out and touch mine and theres no heat to it. However its prone to heat soak if you sit/slow moving thats just how it is.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:46 AM   #12
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Yea heatsoak sucks culo! I can see the heatwave coming from my hoodscoop when sitting in traffic..
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:25 PM   #13
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Ok, so I guess ill just keep the front mount, and when I upgrade my turbo it will help.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:38 AM   #14
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if you are running a stock wrx tmic i would upgrade eventually. However a sti tmic will do just fine because they use those turbos without fmic's
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:12 PM   #15
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I generally see ambient temps in my manifold with my FMIC so it does a decent job. The big difference I find is at track days, 20 min session and my FMIC core is cold and you can hold your hand on it. Try doing that with a TMIC and you could get some serious burns.

Fueling with a stock position maf and a FMIC sucks with the famous rich dip while building boost, blow through is better but has issues on its own. I run SD on mine and fueling is perfect
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:33 PM   #16
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also personally fmic look badass.
so if you agree maybe add that into your decision.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:31 AM   #17
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Im on the other end of the spectrum, think they look ricey..
You dont wanna pull up to charger or audi with that shiny grill.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danger1138 View Post
Im on the other end of the spectrum, think they look ricey..
You dont wanna pull up to charger or audi with that shiny grill.
why not? as long as u spank em who cares
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:36 AM   #19
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^^in regards to fmic's. but if you've gotta big turbo, its a must.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:17 AM   #20
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people can get away with a rotated turbo on a TMIC up north, no way its gonna be happy down here in the desert
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:08 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeskywrx
people can get away with a rotated turbo on a TMIC up north, no way its gonna be happy down here in the desert
I'd like to see a rotated turbo set up with a top mount.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:40 AM   #22
lukeskywrx
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Originally Posted by FreakNastey View Post
I'd like to see a rotated turbo set up with a top mount.
OK
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:23 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danger1138
Im on the other end of the spectrum, think they look ricey..
You dont wanna pull up to charger or audi with that shiny grill.
Charger, what you scared of v8's? Those heavy slow things?
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:45 PM   #24
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Here is what I am talking about. This is a $5000 fan, not some ***** Home Depot job for $100.

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Old 11-15-2012, 09:55 PM   #25
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Sell the FMIC and get a quality TMIC if your not planning on getting any turbo bigger then a 18g down the road. With a good TMIC the heat soak thing is almost a myth within 30-45 seconds of above 40mph speeds

Process West
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