Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday December 22, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.5L Turbo)

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-12-2012, 03:36 PM   #1
pippen
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 171290
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2008 STi
Aspen White

Default Broken ringland?

My car:

2008 STi
ID1000's
GS EBCS
TBE (catless)
DW65c fuel pump
E85 tuned by Phat Ron

Things to consider:

1. After removing the stock TMIC I found around a 1/4cup of oil where the Ypipe meets the turbo (compressor housing??).

2. While in the process of tuning with Phatbotti it seems that I am continuing to have slight knock on 3rd gear pulls. I don't feel anything, don't really hear anything and it seems to idle fine most of the time with the exception of the occasional idle flutter I guess you could say where it goes up and down on cold starts (not as bad as a vacuum leak just is a little weird sometimes).

3. The car seems to run good, maybe not as strong as I remember, though.

4. I had recently switched back to stock heat range copper spark plugs after the one step colders I had installed seemed to be making things a little worse on E85. (Idle, misfires)

5. Cold starts are retarded. The temp this morning was like 57 degrees and the thing will just crank forever. I feel like I'm going to burn up the starter before the car starts.

6. I had the car tuned for the above mods maybe 5 months ago. 2 months ago I had recurring CEL's with misfires on Cylinder #1. Following these CEL's I got a System too lean code and contacted Ron. He followed up with an update that contained something like 25% fuel increase. The car still wanted more fuel. I pulled the injectors and found out I had effed up and didn't put injector #1 o-ring on. The injector was very gunked up so I then pulled all 4 to verify o-rings and clean them. That fixed my rough idle problems and I have not had a misfire or any other code since. Ron updated the MAF scaling and we moved on to 3rd gear pulls. This is where the knock comes in.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

With the combination of the oil in the turbo and or burning of oil (less on dipstick), apparent loss of power and knock, Ron suggests it could be a ringland failure, problem with the pcv or blown turbo. My question is what is the easiest way to narrow it down to one of these and or what are your opinions? Ron suggested I let the car idle and pull off the oil cap and if it sputters crap and has hard hits of air coming out then it's a ringland. Should I also do a compression test / leak down test at this point also? The turbo seems to make boost just fine on paper, does that eliminate it being blown or do I have to pull the downpipe and inspect? And I'm really not sure how to check the pcv system..

One more thing is I see Autozone sells a compression tester but I don't have an air compressor to do a leak down test. Can I just take it to a shop and have them do it? Any suggestions for a shop in San Diego?

Thanks for all the help I'm about to just burn this car.
pippen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 03:50 PM   #2
Uncle Scotty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK Houston
we have an Uncle

Default

take the oil filler cap off with it running.......raw exhaust shooting out is bad
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 04:13 PM   #3
pippen
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 171290
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2008 STi
Aspen White

Default

So i took the cap off. I can definitely feel puffs of air and there is slight smoke. C'mon gimme some good news.
pippen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 10:09 AM   #4
SeeeeeYa
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 129681
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: WV
Vehicle:
2015 WRX Ltd CVT
GBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pippen View Post
So i took the cap off. I can definitely feel puffs of air and there is slight smoke. C'mon gimme some good news.
Sorry, not good news.

Taking the oil filler cap off a good motor, and just letting it rest on the filler tube while gently holding it, will cause it to jiggle... only. The "puffs" will be equally positive and negative, and cancel out any outward flow that would lift the cap. With the good motor it feels almost like it is slightly sucking it down... but not.

And there will definitely NOT be any smoke from a good motor's oil filler tube.
SeeeeeYa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 05:26 PM   #5
pippen
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 171290
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2008 STi
Aspen White

Default

It doesn't seem like I have a busted ringland, the turbo seems to be making boost just fine.. Could it be as simple as installing an AOS to fix the knock issue?
pippen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 08:24 AM   #6
HinshawWRX
Medium Frank
Moderator
 
Member#: 140114
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Common Sense, VA
Vehicle:
2014 Porsche
GT3 (Currently on Fire)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pippen View Post
It doesn't seem like I have a busted ringland, the turbo seems to be making boost just fine.. Could it be as simple as installing an AOS to fix the knock issue?
You ignored the best advice.

A turbo will still make boost just fine with a busted ringland, there is almost no correlation for the 2 in that sense. An AOS does nothing for knock. AOS will get rid of the oil in your blow by, not reduce knocking.

Best thing you can do is a compression and leak down test.
HinshawWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 11:23 PM   #7
pippen
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 171290
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2008 STi
Aspen White

Default

Bump. Help?
pippen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 11:55 PM   #8
nmlittlebigman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 321409
Join Date: May 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Arrey, NM
Vehicle:
2015 WRX LTD
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pippen View Post
Should I also do a compression test / leak down test at this point also?
Yes^^^ Find a good shop. Get it done. Take it from there.
nmlittlebigman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 01:07 AM   #9
CobbsSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 245242
Join Date: Apr 2010
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Morris,IL
Vehicle:
2006 STI
E85 Power

Default

If you do a compression test you'll find out real quick. Then go from there.
CobbsSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 07:27 PM   #10
pippen
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 171290
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2008 STi
Aspen White

Default

So I ordered the grim speed aos and compression tester. Will do the compression test tonight and update
pippen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 08:21 PM   #11
CobbsSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 245242
Join Date: Apr 2010
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Morris,IL
Vehicle:
2006 STI
E85 Power

Default

Some people might disagree but ive heard of the grimmspeed aos doing more bad than good. Might wanna look into that. I suggest the Crawford aos.
CobbsSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 10:21 PM   #12
pippen
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 171290
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2008 STi
Aspen White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CobbsSTI View Post
Some people might disagree but ive heard of the grimmspeed aos doing more bad than good. Might wanna look into that. I suggest the Crawford aos.
well damn isn't the most expensive part always the best??? lol i know what you mean about the Grimmspeed, it seemed like the majority of the reviews were good though. not sure how much boost those people were running but i'm at 22.5psi so idk what that will affect..
pippen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 08:53 PM   #13
Coop1103
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 162063
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: King of Prussia, PA
Vehicle:
2007 STI FR TS 8374
UGM

Default

Your symptoms are almost exact of mine. My problem was broken ring land in cylinder 2. Compression test confirmed it as pressure was @70. Hope you stock piled away some $$ for a build. If you have any questions send me a pm.
Coop1103 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 10:47 PM   #14
pippen
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 171290
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2008 STi
Aspen White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coop1103 View Post
Your symptoms are almost exact of mine. My problem was broken ring land in cylinder 2. Compression test confirmed it as pressure was @70. Hope you stock piled away some $$ for a build. If you have any questions send me a pm.
what did you end up doing? stock rebuild or beef it up? i have some extra cash i'm wondering if i should just go with forged pistons/rods. i would also need a shop local to SD because engine internals are foreign to me.
pippen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 02:19 AM   #15
Coop1103
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 162063
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: King of Prussia, PA
Vehicle:
2007 STI FR TS 8374
UGM

Default

Yes. I just went all out. Short block build with Manley 100mm ceramic pistons....eagle rods and a full new turbo build with borg warner efr 8374. Twinscroll. Figured while I was without the car for months my as well make it worth the down time
Coop1103 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 12:26 PM   #16
apexslider
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 168101
Join Date: Jan 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Vehicle:
15 STi LE
WRB

Default

An AOS isn't going to help now. But a good investment for the new motor you will be building very soon.

Do the compression test, based on what your describing I'm betting you'll have one cylinder in the 60-70 range.
apexslider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 05:15 PM   #17
pippen
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 171290
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2008 STi
Aspen White

Default

I was under the impression that blow by in your intake system can cause knock because of the degradation to your gasoline octane? Anyways I'm out of town for a couple days.. I'll update when I get back with compression test results.
pippen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 05:28 PM   #18
apexslider
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 168101
Join Date: Jan 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Vehicle:
15 STi LE
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pippen
I was under the impression that blow by in your intake system can cause knock because of the degradation to your gasoline octane? Anyways I'm out of town for a couple days.. I'll update when I get back with compression test results.
Yes, which is a big enemy of these cars. My factory system failed and cost me the stock motor (no big loss), but still learned the hard way because I didn't search here and listen. My story was almost identical to yours (symptom wise), and I had two cylinders down; 2/4. Both reading under 60psi and both had damage to 70% of the ringland.

I would put the chances of damage already being done to your motor at 65/35, hence it's a needed mod for your next one as this motor is likely toast. I'm also a glass half empty kind of guy when it comes to motors, expect bad so your not surprised later
apexslider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 12:05 AM   #19
WRXSteye20008
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 175565
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Lancaster, PA
Vehicle:
2014 Sport Premium
Past: 351awhp Sti

Default

Sounds like the turbo seal, that would dump large amounts of oil into the TMIC and you would still hit peak boost with no issues. Happened to me already with the stock turbo. Have you checked that yet?
WRXSteye20008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 09:43 AM   #20
pippen
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 171290
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2008 STi
Aspen White

Default

No I haven't, whats the best way to check?
pippen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 10:18 AM   #21
apexslider
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 168101
Join Date: Jan 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Vehicle:
15 STi LE
WRB

Default

YouTube has some good videos on this.

Does your turbo have any shaft play?
apexslider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2012, 08:45 PM   #22
pippen
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 171290
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2008 STi
Aspen White

Default

Compression test results:

Cylinder 1: 145
Cylinder 2: 145
Cylinder 3: 140
Cylinder 4: 55

I love the fact that it ended up being cylinder #4.. The last one I tested.

So what are my options now? Is this definitively a ringland issue or could the valves be jacked or some other random thing? If I pull the motor and order a new piston/rings I would have to hone the cylinder right?

Good news is I guess a badass shortblock will be a good replacement
pippen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2012, 08:55 PM   #23
hutch959
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 267463
Join Date: Dec 2010
Default

its not the valves.
the piston is broke.

if i was you, i would find some type of "forged" piston/rod combo that you and your tuner/shop agree on . then get it installed.
hutch959 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2012, 09:08 PM   #24
ERL2011wrx
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 268931
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: PA
Vehicle:
2012 wrx
ice silver

Default

This is my only fear with these cars. Just curious as to what oil and oci's you used?
ERL2011wrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2012, 10:36 PM   #25
WiechWRX
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 249659
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: New Castle ,PA
Vehicle:
2012 WRX Limited
SWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ERL2011wrx
This is my only fear with these cars. Just curious as to what oil and oci's you used?
Correct me if I'm wrong but no matter what oil you use, if you run 22.5 lbs of boost on factory internals you're going to hurt the motor.
WiechWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.