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Old 11-20-2012, 10:24 AM   #1
Dude313
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Default Various tuning questions

09 wrx, spt CB, AEM intake is suppose to be delivered today. Grimmspeed EBCS, prosport evo boost/wideband with SMY cluster, and Downpipe are on my Xmas to myself haha. I am just learning how to tune. Pretty much reading more than tuning. I have some base maps I have been comparing, logging, and learning from but thats about it. I'm trying so don't bash me. There was a day when you did not know the answers to these questions.

1. If my car can adjust to Pittsburgh weather, why do you need to tune for a CAI? Summers are in the 90s winters go to single digits sometimes. Im sure im sucking in colder air in February than I am in August.

2. XPT stage 1 tune requires a larger than stock fuel pump. Torqued Performance does not but IDCs are over 100. Is that safe to be running like that? Is there a distinct one that is better or is this a matter of opinion?

3. If I use an opensource stage 1 or 2 map from XPT, TP, or any one of the others. Do I need to monitor the boost and wideband with a gauge installed, or is it enough to data log every once in awhile and make sure im still running ok? Do I need a wideband if I am just buying a opensource tune?
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:07 PM   #2
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Bumpp
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:59 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude313
09 wrx, spt CB, AEM intake is suppose to be delivered today. Grimmspeed EBCS, prosport evo boost/wideband with SMY cluster, and Downpipe are on my Xmas to myself haha. I am just learning how to tune. Pretty much reading more than tuning. I have some base maps I have been comparing, logging, and learning from but thats about it. I'm trying so don't bash me. There was a day when you did not know the answers to these questions.

1. If my car can adjust to Pittsburgh weather, why do you need to tune for a CAI? Summers are in the 90s winters go to single digits sometimes. Im sure im sucking in colder air in February than I am in August.

2. XPT stage 1 tune requires a larger than stock fuel pump. Torqued Performance does not but IDCs are over 100. Is that safe to be running like that? Is there a distinct one that is better or is this a matter of opinion?

3. If I use an opensource stage 1 or 2 map from XPT, TP, or any one of the others. Do I need to monitor the boost and wideband with a gauge installed, or is it enough to data log every once in awhile and make sure im still running ok? Do I need a wideband if I am just buying a opensource tune?
You need to tune for a new intake because the diameter changes. The Maf reads airflow based off the amount of cooling over its wire with regards to the amount that flows through that diameter intake. So changing it makes it read wrong.

Generally, the agreed upon Idc shouldn't be over 80% for safety. This is so that there's room for weather and other factors that can happen. Fuel injectors should be changed or fuel pressure to correct this.

If you push the limits then yes. Constant monitoring. IMO if you run a safe tune and do plenty of scanning to make sure it is safe then scanning adverse conditions to double check is fine.

Of course some of this is opinion and being the Internet you are bound to have people yelling that there way is more correct than this.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:09 PM   #4
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Thanks for getting back to me. I figured there was a factor I was missing on the intake. I was thinking it has something to do with the diameter but to the naked eye the AEM intake tube does not seem bigger. Now I know, thanks that kept me up at night.

If the IDC should not be over 80% (which is what I read and thought) then how does TP stage 1 tune get such good reviews? Am I the only one that cares whether their tune is safe or not?
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:37 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude313
Thanks for getting back to me. I figured there was a factor I was missing on the intake. I was thinking it has something to do with the diameter but to the naked eye the AEM intake tube does not seem bigger. Now I know, thanks that kept me up at night.

If the IDC should not be over 80% (which is what I read and thought) then how does TP stage 1 tune get such good reviews? Am I the only one that cares whether their tune is safe or not?
It's all about safety and conditions. Some people ride the ragged edge some people want safety. Most people on here don't know what they're doing and skip "unnecessary" supporting modifications to save a dime. Most are fine, but some will lose the gamble. And that's what it is when you don't heed warnings. A gamble. If the tuner suggests bigger injectors or a better fuel pump then that's what a wise turtle would do.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:46 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude313 View Post
0

2. XPT stage 1 tune requires a larger than stock fuel pump. Torqued Performance does not but IDCs are over 100. Is that safe to be running like that? Is there a distinct one that is better or is this a matter of opinion?
Interesting discussion of IDC > 100% here:

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...tor+duty+cycle

Oh and as for using a wideband..I am a firm believer that its your best friend. It can let you know when you may have a possible boost or vacuum leak.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:37 PM   #7
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I am not the type of person that just pays for something without weighing all the pros and cons. Safety is very important to me. My car was not cheap and I dont make enough to destroy it. I am a IT professional so my mind works the right way for tuning, I think. I dont want to make mistakes and I want to tune safe.

Thats a good discussion on IDCs thanks for the link.

I dont even know why I asked about the wideband and boost gauges because I know I am getting them first. I check double check and triple check everything. Theres no way I would just trust my car was running safe without checking it.

How does IDC refer to the fuel pump? If the IDC is to high should that not require bigger injectors instead of a fuel pump?
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude313
I am not the type of person that just pays for something without weighing all the pros and cons. Safety is very important to me. My car was not cheap and I dont make enough to destroy it. I am a IT professional so my mind works the right way for tuning, I think. I dont want to make mistakes and I want to tune safe.

Thats a good discussion on IDCs thanks for the link.

I dont even know why I asked about the wideband and boost gauges because I know I am getting them first. I check double check and triple check everything. Theres no way I would just trust my car was running safe without checking it.

How does IDC refer to the fuel pump? If the IDC is to high should that not require bigger injectors instead of a fuel pump?
The injector flow needed may outflow the pump.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:59 PM   #9
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Ok. I'm looking for the relationship between the IDC and the flow of the pump. I see the IDC of the TP stage 1 map is over 100%. the XPT tune requires a larger fuel pump but does that lower the IDC? How is the pump lower the IDC?
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude313
Ok. I'm looking for the relationship between the IDC and the flow of the pump. I see the IDC of the TP stage 1 map is over 100%. the XPT tune requires a larger fuel pump but does that lower the IDC? How is the pump lower the IDC?
Don't know the fuel system of these specific cars well enough but fuel pressure would need to change to alter IDC.

Your stock pump probably can't flow enough fuel to properly feed the higher boost of the map. Which is why they say its required.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude313 View Post
Ok. I'm looking for the relationship between the IDC and the flow of the pump. I see the IDC of the TP stage 1 map is over 100%. the XPT tune requires a larger fuel pump but does that lower the IDC? How is the pump lower the IDC?
Talk to both tuners and I'm sure they will help you decide.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:18 PM   #12
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Back to the beginning...

Have you scanned your current IDC or are you saying the notes on the tune say you'll run over 100 IDC?

If they say you'll be running >100 IDC, it sounds like they are saying you'll have trouble keeping up with the fueling on a stock pump. Meaning the injectors attempt to add more fuel because the pump has too little flow already and the injectors are open 100% of the time to attempt to fix it which they can't do.

Get a better fuel pump.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:31 PM   #13
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Basically this thread has molded into comparing the XPT and TP tunes I guess. The TP stage 1 tune has IDC over 100%. The XPT tune requires a bigger fuel pump. Does the bigger fuel pump lower the IDC?
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude313
Basically this thread has molded into comparing the XPT and TP tunes I guess. The TP stage 1 tune has IDC over 100%. The XPT tune requires a bigger fuel pump. Does the bigger fuel pump lower the IDC?
They both need bigger fuel pumps because 101% duty cycle is not only impossible, but dangerous.

A direct replacement of the fuel pump only will not change your fuel pressure and therefore will not change injector duty cycle.

Get a better fuel pump for EITHER tune.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:43 PM   #15
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Bigger fuel pump and
Injectors?
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude313
Bigger fuel pump and
Injectors?
If you are currently seeing IDC over 100 PRIOR to these tunes, then yes. You need both. (But it sounds like that's a no, though you didn't answer that question)

If they are suggesting a new pump only then that's all you need.

If they are suggesting you run >100 IDC, I'd suggest you run from them. Any company that tells me to run that high of an IDC won't be touching my tune.

The company that says you'll have high IDC could have two reasons for saying so. For this reason I can't answer your question for that tune. So again, go with the one that says to get a new pump. Follow their directions.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:10 PM   #17
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I am running a stock tune, my IDCs are <100%. I thought I declared that I the first post, sorry. So now I don't understand why I have not seen more posts on this subject. Unless I haven't found them yet. Tunes with IDCs over 85% = bad news? I have not seen any negative threads on this subject. I have only seen good reviews on these tunes. Why has no one picked up on this?
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:19 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude313
I am running a stock tune, my IDCs are <100%. I thought I declared that I the first post, sorry. So now I don't understand why I have not seen more posts on this subject. Unless I haven't found them yet. Tunes with IDCs over 85% = bad news? I have not seen any negative threads on this subject. I have only seen good reviews on these tunes. Why has no one picked up on this?
It's head room. Like I said, most get away with it. Some don't. The biggest reason you don't see much about it because people brush the idea under the table when they try to get away with it. Then when they blow their motor or have another issue THEY BLAME SOMETHING ELSE. Or they would never admit on the Internet to their mistake. Heaven forbid. You have to understand everybody on this site is the smartest person alive if you ask them.

If you know what to look for threads and even FAQs you'll see it's all over. Most people just don't want to read. Or they want to save a dollar. Then leave it to America to have them pass the buck when problems arise.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessWRX

It's head room. Like I said, most get away with it. Some don't. The biggest reason you don't see much about it because people brush the idea under the table when they try to get away with it. Then when they blow their motor or have another issue THEY BLAME SOMETHING ELSE. Or they would never admit on the Internet to their mistake. Heaven forbid. You have to understand everybody on this site is the smartest person alive if you ask them.

If you know what to look for threads and even FAQs you'll see it's all over. Most people just don't want to read. Or they want to save a dollar. Then leave it to America to have them pass the buck when problems arise.
Just think about what would happen to a car that can barely keep up with fueling requirements in normal conditions if you had some very cold weather and a lead foot. Suddenly your fueling requirements elevate and your pump can't keep up with the flow of fuel the injectors need in order to achieve the proper air/fuel ratio. Now your motor is lean because the fuel can't keep up. The computer can respond only so quick. And it doesn't take long for a piston to pop in a lean condition.

Is it worth it?
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:44 PM   #20
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It's not worth the risk. I'm thankful for the help. I want to make sure I have the right things in place to tune my car for more HP and TQ. To save some time and money I thought about the open source tunes. The reason I started this thread was to learn. It seems for some reason a lot of people like to pay someone else to ruin their cars. I want to learn how and why before I do anything. I want to do it myself and monitor the results. As much as I don't know = X. By data logging, reading, tuning myself = Y.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:50 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Dude313 View Post
It's not worth the risk. I'm thankful for the help. I want to make sure I have the right things in place to tune my car for more HP and TQ. To save some time and money I thought about the open source tunes. The reason I started this thread was to learn. It seems for some reason a lot of people like to pay someone else to ruin their cars. I want to learn how and why before I do anything. I want to do it myself and monitor the results. As much as I don't know = X. By data logging, reading, tuning myself = Y.
Sorry I accidentally posted that to early.

As much as I don't know = X. T = off the shelf maps. Knowledge from data logging, tuning, and reading = Y. X will always be > Y but X + T will always be < Y and that will save my engine.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:51 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude313
It's not worth the risk. I'm thankful for the help. I want to make sure I have the right things in place to tune my car for more HP and TQ. To save some time and money I thought about the open source tunes. The reason I started this thread was to learn. It seems for some reason a lot of people like to pay someone else to ruin their cars. I want to learn how and why before I do anything. I want to do it myself and monitor the results. As much as I don't know = X. By data logging, reading, tuning myself = Y.
I taught myself to tune. Best thing you could ever do for car modification. Go open source. READ. Tune slowly. Scan. Be happy.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude313 View Post
It's not worth the risk. I'm thankful for the help. I want to make sure I have the right things in place to tune my car for more HP and TQ. To save some time and money I thought about the open source tunes. The reason I started this thread was to learn. It seems for some reason a lot of people like to pay someone else to ruin their cars. I want to learn how and why before I do anything. I want to do it myself and monitor the results. As much as I don't know = X. By data logging, reading, tuning myself = Y.
I get the logic, why pay someone to tune the car when you can blow it up yourself?

I guess what I'm advising is make sure you really do you know you're doing. I've seen many a tune where people swore it was the best tune possible and nothing was wrong with it, but in reality had some severe problems with it.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:08 PM   #24
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Thanks. Im on my way there. It seems my original suspicions were correct. I need a wideband. I have a tactrix and have been logging. I am learning. I live this S**T! Haha. I can tune for small stuff. I will continue to do this myself, log, learn. Thanks for the help.
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:56 AM   #25
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A safe drivable and fun tune can be reached by someone determined like the op. Takes time and reasonable steps. Read a lot on romraider.

A tune that pushes the limits of your car and doesn't sent a piston out of the side of the block.....now that's where the mad scientists show their skill....

There are many nuances and dependencies you must learn. Take your time and start with the boost set to waste gate level. Go from there.

Oh and get fuel injectors and a pump anyways regardless of what the maps recommend. Its just smart. Don't cheap out on anything.
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