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Old 11-28-2012, 01:46 PM   #1
Cocoa Beach Bum
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Default New Option for EJ Engines from King Engine Bearings

I see quite a few posts about engine bearing failures so I thought the article at http://www.autoserviceworld.com/news...es/1001890435/ might be of interest. According to the article:
Quote:
King's new bearings are specifically engineered to solve premature bearing failure caused by low oil pressure or oil starvation that has plagued the high output Subaru EJ series boxer engines (EJ15, EJ16, EJ18, EJ20, EJ22, EJ25).

"King conducted extensive research into the unique oiling circumstances of the Subaru EJ series engines," explained Ron Sledge, King's performance and technical manager. "What resulted is a completely re-engineered main bearing set that eliminates oil leakage and increases oil flow to number two and number three rod bearings."

To improve oil flow, oil slots on the King XPG bearings are replaced with oil holes for better oil distribution in the groove and more consistent oil flow. Fully grooved number three main bearings enable 360 oiling to number two and number three rod bearings. King XPG bearings feature a unique lug design that eliminates the conventional lug recess so no oil escapes and full oil pressure is maintained. In addition, narrowed bearing lengths help eliminate fillet ride on high-radius cranks.

With enhanced tri-metal copper lead construction with nickel barrier and SecureBond adhesion, King XPG bearings have a 20 percent higher load capacity and better resist surface fatigue.

King XPG Bearings are available for Subaru EJ series boxer engine applications, including rod bearings (CR4125XPG - 52mm journal) and main bearings (MB5382XPG - flange in #5 position). These new XPG parts are available in STDX (.001” extra clearance), STD, .026, 0.25 and 0.5.
Their website at http://www.kingbearings.com has a Technical Info section which provides a lot of info about engine bearings in general.

Last edited by Cocoa Beach Bum; 11-28-2012 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:25 PM   #2
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Seems like more of an issue on the 2.0L motors- but even so i'm not sure it's necessarily the design of the bearing that causes the failure.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:09 PM   #3
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Pure marketing bull****.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:08 AM   #4
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I heard about King Bearings doing something like this 6 months ago or more...There was a thread about it and I think I saw it floating around recently...
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:50 AM   #5
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The crank is the issue, oil will always take the path of least resistance. The OEM EJ crank is not designed for high revs.

not the best of designs especially when you're trying to spin to 9k and make 400+WHP


It also depends on clearances, knock, ect.

the two rods being supplied by one main doesn't help

Last edited by Flat 4 Motorsport; 11-29-2012 at 01:36 AM.
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:10 PM   #6
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We have a set here that we are going to be using in our 800hp ej257 that revs to 8500rpm.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:33 AM   #7
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I run ACLs on mine and am doing a bigger build that will rev to 8500. Anyone have data on why these would outperform the ACLs.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:22 AM   #8
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I had spoken with Ron Sledge for a good deal of time at PRI last year. I was thoroughly unimpressed, especially after sitting in his seminar (where he spouted rules of thumb) however I did drop a load of issues that we have and why.
I also made some suggestions that I wanted to test for the EJ, including a full grove #3 main and trying a 3/4 or maybe even a 1/2 groove for the #1 and #5.

I guess he got someone to test it with!...or it's just marketing BS and it isn't tested yet

-Micah

P.S. IIRC Matt Ball pretty much gave him the same ear full that I did.
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:27 AM   #9
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Hi , I see some Questions about XPG bearings
THIS is the story about it:

We made research and found that Most of Bearing failure in Subaru EJ engines appear on CR #2 and #3.
We received few failed bearings for inspection and found similar symptoms of Oil starvation.
The question is why only CR#2 ,#3 and not CR #1 CR#4
Well, CR#1 get oil from MB#1, CR#4 get from MB#5, CR #2,#3 both get from MB #3
My conclusion was :the ability of single main (#3) to feed oil for 2 CR is limited

therefore, Oil In Feed from Block into MB#3
and
Oil Out Feed from MB#3 into CR#2,3 must improved.

In feed (to MB#3) can improved by adding more oil holes or changing oil to Slot
Out feed (to CR #2,3) can improved by changing oil grove to be folly 360 instead of partially 250 degrees.
explanation :In 250 the oil delivery from MB to CR are turned on-off-on-off while crank rotate ~66% on 33% off
In 360 degree it is 100% on

Oil Groove could not modify to be 360 without changing the inside geometry of the Locating Lug.

The oil will leak from oil Groove out trough the inside punched area of the Locating lug

So this is all about it

confused??
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:32 AM   #10
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Is this a joke Gideon?

Okay I will bite....


so why 360 oiling at journals 1 and 5? iI understand the theoretical benefit of #3.

How about sharing some data that a million dollar corp should have prior to little ol me buying unproven ideas on a $150 bearing set going into $20k engine rebuild?
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:38 AM   #11
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Why don't you start on official KING bearing thread so everything stays together?
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:39 AM   #12
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yi..... i purchased a full set normal and oversized. My normal ones are your redesign (which I never asked for) and the oversized are the previous design. Makes it more difficult to swap bearings to get proper tolerances.

feel a bit cheated to be honest.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:58 PM   #13
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I see that Mel is going for the jugular
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:17 PM   #14
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If some bearing company really wanted to listen and make some $$ they would make some oversized main bearings so one could align hone without decking the halves but what do I know
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal_Imprezav View Post
If some bearing company really wanted to listen and make some $$ they would make some oversized main bearings so one could align hone without decking the halves but what do I know
Agreed!!
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:25 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal_Imprezav View Post
If some bearing company really wanted to listen and make some $$ they would make some oversized main bearings so one could align hone without decking the halves but what do I know
You get the cookie!
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:22 PM   #17
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ok folks - I talked to the King guy at IMIS. I didn't beat around the bush at all. In fact, I was likely rather aggressively unfriendly.

Now, this is what I was told. Take it as you will.

1) The tang. They found that with the old stamped tang oil was getting behind the bearing though the cut and displacing the bearing into the crank. The new tang is upset as opposed to cut/stamped to eliminate the cut for oil to get into.
2) The feed holes #3 are now oval to keep from blocking the feed from the block.
3) the "trough" is now deeper to hold more oil
4) the holes for #5 are chamfered on the crank face side to hold more oil
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
ok folks - I talked to the King guy at IMIS. I didn't beat around the bush at all. In fact, I was likely rather aggressively unfriendly.

Now, this is what I was told. Take it as you will.

1) The tang. They found that with the old stamped tang oil was getting behind the bearing though the cut and displacing the bearing into the crank. The new tang is upset as opposed to cut/stamped to eliminate the cut for oil to get into.
2) The feed holes #3 are now oval to keep from blocking the feed from the block.
3) the "trough" is now deeper to hold more oil
4) the holes for #5 are chamfered on the crank face side to hold more oil
What's your take on this then? Many here would trust your opinion. Would you go with these or recommend we look elsewhere?


Matt
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matty_STi View Post
What's your take on this then? Many here would trust your opinion. Would you go with these or recommend we look elsewhere?


Matt
Honestly. I'm not sure. I'm only repeating what I was told, but at the same time I'm not too interested in running them on a customer build just to see what happens. I too would need validation that the changes add up to better performance than what is currently out there.
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:00 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
ok folks - I talked to the King guy at IMIS. I didn't beat around the bush at all. In fact, I was likely rather aggressively unfriendly.

Now, this is what I was told. Take it as you will.

1) The tang. They found that with the old stamped tang oil was getting behind the bearing though the cut and displacing the bearing into the crank. The new tang is upset as opposed to cut/stamped to eliminate the cut for oil to get into.
2) The feed holes #3 are now oval to keep from blocking the feed from the block.
3) the "trough" is now deeper to hold more oil
4) the holes for #5 are chamfered on the crank face side to hold more oil
Hey, please let me corect yuo

1) the Tang:
problem we found is in inside surface of the tang (inside of the bearing),
in the old Pahse1 engines, oil groove was 360 degs, the inside punched tang was very near to oil Groove, oil leaked from oil groove through tang and reduced oil pressure , to prevent oil leaks, Subaru engineers decided in phase2 engines to modified the oil groove , from 360 degs to be ~250 degs
that modification terminated the oil leak, but with price of oil starvation in CR 2,3.
we reverted the changed in the oil groove to be 360 again, and to prevent leaks we modified the lug.

Gideon Saslavsky
King Engine Bearings
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GideonZ View Post
Hey, please let me corect yuo

1) the Tang:
problem we found is in inside surface of the tang (inside of the bearing),
in the old Pahse1 engines, oil groove was 360 degs, the inside punched tang was very near to oil Groove, oil leaked from oil groove through tang and reduced oil pressure , to prevent oil leaks, Subaru engineers decided in phase2 engines to modified the oil groove , from 360 degs to be ~250 degs
that modification terminated the oil leak, but with price of oil starvation in CR 2,3.
we reverted the changed in the oil groove to be 360 again, and to prevent leaks we modified the lug.

Gideon Saslavsky
King Engine Bearings
Ah! Awesome! Thank you.
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:30 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GideonZ View Post

Gideon Saslavsky
King Engine Bearings
Im curious if you guys ever shipped the old style bearings in the new packaging?
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:26 AM   #23
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Got this from the other thread on this revised bearing http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2431764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal_Imprezav View Post
oh and also new packaging:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
Im curious if you guys ever shipped the old style bearings in the new packaging?
also would like to know, from what I see, it "appears" as though the new bearings came in this new package and were swapped before the customer got it. Reason I say this, is because the new style (both in same new box & same part # on label, purchased at same time) came shrink wrapped/never opened, and the old style w/out the ovaled hole came just as the bearings sitting directly in the plastic tray
btw, place items were shipped to and customer quoted above, wasn't directly purchased from you

If King could chime in on this question, Is there anyway old style bearings went in this new package? I guess from what jeff mentioned, this isn't the first instance for him

Last edited by Irv Weissmanhowerton; 12-22-2012 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:07 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
Im curious if you guys ever shipped the old style bearings in the new packaging?

No we will not ship the older style EJ Subaru bearings in the new packaging.
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Old 12-11-2012, 05:27 PM   #25
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My thoughts:

Didn't see anything chamfered on #5 from my recollection but I will double check.

The tang makes a bit of sense. The Mahle bearings did the same thing a long time ago.
http://gruppe-s.blogspot.com/2010/07...ver-mahle.html

With the expanded U holes and deeper grooves, it makes me want to run a bigger oil pump.
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