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Old 12-02-2012, 09:17 PM   #1
cowboy_Rob
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So since my motor will be coming back out this week for headgaskets anyway I'm wondering if I should change anything about my avcs setup.

Right now its a 04 sti engine with the avcs gears and solenoids but no wiring to the solenoids because its in a 03 wrx.

I saw something the other day about the timing being 7 degrees retarded using avcs gears without the avcs ecu. But I've read other threads saying that without connecting the solenoids the cam just default to 0. Hoping to get a real answer on whether I'm ok the way it's setup now or if I'd be better to use wrx cam gears and plug the oiling holes in the cams? Which holes need plugged and what gets done with the solenoids and oil feed lines?

Last edited by cowboy_Rob; 12-02-2012 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:37 AM   #2
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Assuming that you're using a WRX ECU there is not much you can do as it has no ability to control the AVCS cams.

Do you currently have the AVCS oil port on the cams plugged right now?

As far as tuning and changing timing, I am out of my element with that. Though I am in the process of learning tuning.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:49 AM   #3
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I don't know about the timing thing, I do know that you will need to maintain the oil feed to the AVCS solenoids, they in turn supply oil to the front cam journals.



http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...disabling+avcs

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...disabling+avcs
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:52 AM   #4
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You should be able to just use a block off plate for the solenoids if you don't have them. The front of the cam is what I was talking about closing. Then you can use non-avcs cam gears. At that point it is all down to tuning.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:47 PM   #5
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Im about to do the same thing as your setup but in my '04. Complete AVCS with cam gears, just not hooked up. From the research I have done, I was reading exactly what youve read.. I did have concerns that the timing would be off.. All of the other info Ive gone over shows timing using the STi cam gears will automatically set at zero while not connected. This is much easier than trying to plug the oil holes in the cams.. from what I saw, most peoples "plug jobs" end up leaking.. There are people running this exact setup and have no issues.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:51 PM   #6
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I can't speak for the 2.5l but when I did my 207 swap and didn't have the AVCS wired in it just would not boost before 4krpm even though my gauge read full boost. Once they were wired in the car never hesitated or stopped pulling. Granted when it made full boost by 3200 - 3400 it slingshot the car forward but it was way worse without the AVCS.

Again that was with the Version 8 EJ207 JDM STI motor.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:05 PM   #7
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Let me clarify that I've been running it with avcs gears and solenoids just not hooked up for the past 60k without any problems just wondering if there's any gains to be had by putting on wrx gears
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:14 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy_Rob View Post
Let me clarify that I've been running it with avcs gears and solenoids just not hooked up for the past 60k without any problems just wondering if there's any gains to be had by putting on wrx gears
If you were running fine for 60k Id say thats a good sign. Im stickin with it. I dont see what difference the stock ej20 intake cam gears would make.. Obviously running AVCS would be nice but really dont want to dive into harness and ecu swaps at this point in time, although I want to keep the option open. How did the engine boost and compared to an ej20 what kind of difference in the two as far as power delivery?
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:08 PM   #9
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I would start by asking your tuner to be honest...

To put wrx gears, you will need to close the oiling passages on the front of the cam.
I was under the impression you were wanting to add the function of avcs to your car.

My apologizes.
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:54 PM   #10
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I never drove it with the 2.0 it was already swapped when I bought it. It ran fine trapped 110 on the vf39 at 25 psi then recently trapped 116 on a bolt on Fp red without even launching cuz the clutch wouldn't bite.
And for the "ask your tuner" comments I'm open sourcing it myself
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:45 PM   #11
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the timing is definitely retarded. i thought it was around 10* though. either way, wrx gears would set the timing back to 0 mechanically and give you better spool and more power.

i have been driving without avcs hooked up on my 08 motor now for a year now and cant wait to switch the cam gears in a few weekends.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:31 PM   #12
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Sheeeeiiiiit.. one person says timing retarded, one person says its fine. Is there any way to verify what the AVCS does when its not wired in?
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:40 PM   #13
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Talk to your tuner and see what would be better for him.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:52 PM   #14
99imprezd
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yeah.. I guess if he doesnt know, nobody will..
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:17 PM   #15
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Good lord does anyone read before commenting? I'm tuning it myself that's why I'm asking whether the timing ends up retarded or not. Guess ill buy a set of wrx gears and find out myself since every thread I find about this some people say its fine and others say it ends up retarded.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy_Rob View Post
Good lord does anyone read before commenting? I'm tuning it myself that's why I'm asking whether the timing ends up retarded or not. Guess ill buy a set of wrx gears and find out myself since every thread I find about this some people say its fine and others say it ends up retarded.
sorry, semi hijacked your thread.. im not tuning myself so emailed the tuner.. Ill post his reply when he gets back to me..
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:07 PM   #17
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That's fine I'm just gonna buy a pair of wrx gears and post some pics of them compared to avcs gears and end this discussion lol
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:37 PM   #18
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So.. tuning with the AVCS Heads & Cam Gears will be a problem.. He agreed with blocking off the holes in the cams and using the wrx cam gears, additionally he suggested deleting the AVCS or cams may slip around? Still unclear.. lol. sorry I cant provide a more definite answer.. but just found this thread that is the most clear out of all Ive read.. still reading it here.. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2046298
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99imprezd
So.. tuning with the AVCS Heads & Cam Gears will be a problem.. He agreed with blocking off the holes in the cams and using the wrx cam gears, additionally he suggested deleting the AVCS or cams may slip around? Still unclear.. lol. sorry I cant provide a more definite answer.. but just found this thread that is the most clear out of all Ive read.. still reading it here.. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2046298
Yes plug the oil holes and run wrx gears. That effectively deletes avcs. Do not remove the selenoids they feed oil to the first journal.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:57 PM   #20
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Also run non avcs cam seals or u will leak
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:39 PM   #21
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Well what I was hoping would be bad headgaskets turned out to be a cracked block so I won't be posting comparison pics of the cam gears anytime soon

There's actually a small crack off to the left in addition to the big huge one

Last edited by cowboy_Rob; 12-06-2012 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:56 AM   #22
99imprezd
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damn.. Ive got a block (2006) 704 casting halves Im about to throw up on ebay if your interested.. 62k good to go.

Last edited by 99imprezd; 12-07-2012 at 01:02 AM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:10 AM   #23
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heres the intake cam gear comparo.. pickups on the back of driver side are the same... minus the avcs mechanism.. was tapping set screws blocking off the avcs oil holes in the driver side intake cams so figured I take a few pics...






Last edited by 99imprezd; 12-07-2012 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:47 PM   #24
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It's just the wording that has people confused about the cam timing differences. The bottom line is that the STi AVCS cam/sprocket will have less advance at resting state compared to the WRX cam/sprocket. The reason they do this on the STi is so you don't get piston to valve contact when you advance the intake cam timing. But because you can advance the intake cam timing you can restore the lost compression.

Thanks,
Phil Grabow
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:43 PM   #25
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^^^ Phil is right!

Cars with AVCS have the Intake cam sitting at a centerline of approx. 125* ATDC since the AVCS pulley is sitting in the most retarded position.

Cars without AVCS have the Intake cam sitting at a centerline of approx. 113* ATDC with the fixed pulleys.

This is most likely where the difference that people talk about come from. However in order to be sure where your cams are sitting at I would always recommend using proper cam timing tools so you know what you are doing.

Jasper.
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