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Old 12-09-2012, 12:12 PM   #1
intense98rt
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Default Bad brake wear

I have a '12 wrx hatch. After I got the car the brakes never felt as good as the brakes on my '06 GLI or '98 neon. I assumed the added weight plus junk stock pads was the reason. Well, I went to a PDE track day yesterday. They had 20 minute sessions with 40 minute cool down. About 15 minutes in each session I had significant fade. The peddle went just about to the floor. I took it as the DOT3 fluid couldn't handle the heat. After my 4th session, I pulled off the track and my brakes were making a loud grinding noise both on and off the brakes. I didn't think the pads could be worn completely with only 13,000 miles on the car. Most of it easy on the brakes except for this one track day. On my way home, the brake light came on. I pulled the brakes apart today.
Here's what I found.



Why do you think there is uneven wear?
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:03 PM   #2
jdblock
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Because of the amount of play in the brakes and your wheel bearings.
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Old 12-09-2012, 03:38 PM   #3
intense98rt
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Originally Posted by jdblock View Post
Because of the amount of play in the brakes and your wheel bearings.
It only has 13,000 miles it it. I don't see how it could have that much play to make the pads wear that bad.
I just had the rotors turned and replaced pads. It's still squealing. I don't see anything touching the rotors besides the pads. Anyone else have this problem?
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:57 PM   #4
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I've had this same exact problem. Yes, there is enough play in all of those parts. Some of the problem you had seems like it could have been pad knockback, and why your brake pedal was going to the floor. This isn't anything new with the Subaru brake system when used on the track.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:09 PM   #5
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Same issue on my 08 WRX(think there is no big change since then). Already from 4th or 5th hard brake i got fading, bad vibrations in the steering and almost no more brake power. 1st change will be the brake pads-hawk performance one's-stuff is @ my dealer ready to be picked. If this should not change the game, will change the rotors and last chance would be STI brake system...
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alinschaefer View Post
Same issue on my 08 WRX(think there is no big change since then). Already from 4th or 5th hard brake i got fading, bad vibrations in the steering and almost no more brake power. 1st change will be the brake pads-hawk performance one's-stuff is @ my dealer ready to be picked. If this should not change the game, will change the rotors and last chance would be STI brake system...


d0000000000000d....hawk pads suck real bad

do s LOT more research on this....your dealer makes a LOT of $$$ on hawk which is why they have them
but they suck....really...the hps are just no better than stock really and the hp+ will squeal like and arent worth the hassle


PLEASE do some research before ya shoot yerself in the foot with a lot of wasted $$$ here

and changing rotors wont do **** for ya either....better fluid WILL help....better pads WILL help...rotors wont matter a bit
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:59 PM   #7
alinschaefer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post


d0000000000000d....hawk pads suck real bad

do s LOT more research on this....your dealer makes a LOT of $$$ on hawk which is why they have them
but they suck....really...the hps are just no better than stock really and the hp+ will squeal like and arent worth the hassle

PLEASE do some research before ya shoot yerself in the foot with a lot of wasted $$$ here

and changing rotors wont do **** for ya either....better fluid WILL help....better pads WILL help...rotors wont matter a bit
Thx Uncle Scotty!
The choice felt for the Hawk due to a buddy of mine running endurance races on the Nürburgring and using the pads on their modified M3. He told me already that the pads squeeze and leave powder on the wheels but that they never had issues with the quality.
But you right about the price and maybe also about the "what you get" quality in connection to the price.

But the kind of worn pads as intense98rt is describing I could never reach due to the very early massive vibrations in the steering and pedal. Seems that the brake rotors are distorted at higher temperatures afte 4-5 times hard braking, therefore it might be also the rotors. Idea was to change piece by piece and define the root cause.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:38 PM   #8
intense98rt
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The rear pads were worn too but wear was even. I replaced them and the noise went away. I still don't understand why they wore so fast and fronts uneven.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:04 PM   #9
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sometimes when ya really cook pads...the resin cooks out and they get squeeky

and everybody gettin all boned up about 'uneven' pad wear lately

reamember...this is a rotating system and there has to be a leading edge of the pad....if the pads hit the rotor flat...THAT is what causes squealing....if the pad hits at a slight angle, then this noise is much reduced

therefore ya almost always gonna have a bit of taper on pads...its designed that way for a reason

and dont even think about tracking stock pads.....ever....they die quickly

and the fluid gets cooked
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:35 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intense98rt View Post
I have a '12 wrx hatch. After I got the car the brakes never felt as good as the brakes on my '06 GLI or '98 neon. I assumed the added weight plus junk stock pads was the reason. Well, I went to a PDE track day yesterday. They had 20 minute sessions with 40 minute cool down. About 15 minutes in each session I had significant fade. The peddle went just about to the floor. I took it as the DOT3 fluid couldn't handle the heat. After my 4th session, I pulled off the track and my brakes were making a loud grinding noise both on and off the brakes. I didn't think the pads could be worn completely with only 13,000 miles on the car. Most of it easy on the brakes except for this one track day. On my way home, the brake light came on. I pulled the brakes apart today.
Here's what I found.



Why do you think there is uneven wear?
The pistons are the same size so the leading edge wears more.

CMP eats brakes and tires especially heavy hi power cars.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:52 PM   #11
intense98rt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXBrakes View Post
The pistons are the same size so the leading edge wears more.

CMP eats brakes and tires especially heavy hi power cars.
That sounds like a good explanation. I thought it might be something like that. This is my first car with dual piston calipers.

I bought some cheap organic pads from the parts and had rotors turned to get me back on the road. If I get track only pads, should I have a spare set of rotors to go along with them?
I had hawk hp+ on my neon. They felt like normal pads when cold, when warm from autox they were great. On the road course they still faded after a short time.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:50 AM   #12
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Properly bed and season your new brakes, bet they last better...

Check Baer brakes tech sextion for the proper proceedure, which includes burning out tje plastic "binders" in the pads, sintering them
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:11 PM   #13
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Hawk makes a lot of different pads. The HPS performance pads you were probably going to get are not so great. The race stuff your friend is using on the ring is a little different.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamal View Post
Hawk makes a lot of different pads. The HPS performance pads you were probably going to get are not so great. The race stuff your friend is using on the ring is a little different.

yeah....this....most people dont use their track pads on the street.....the noise will kill ya

and nobody should try to compare track pads to street pads, anyway Nürburgring or not
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:08 PM   #15
alinschaefer
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Slowly ;-) but honestly I realize I should save my money...
I wanna do trackdays next season on the ring and that was the reason for the Hawk's. I am now rethinking my plan and will try to avoid what happened to intense98rt. Save money for the STI brake system front & rear...even used, but with new pads+rotors.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:23 PM   #16
Uncle Scotty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alinschaefer View Post
Slowly ;-) but honestly I realize I should save my money...
I wanna do trackdays next season on the ring and that was the reason for the Hawk's. I am now rethinking my plan and will try to avoid what happened to intense98rt. Save money for the STI brake system front & rear...even used, but with new pads+rotors.


oh jesus christ

are people REALLY this DUMB

you dont want or need sti brakes

all ya NEED is the RIGHT pads...and rotors and fluid....unless you are gonna RACE......then maybe ya need more brakes...but then ya bought the wrong car in the first place, really
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post


oh jesus christ

are people REALLY this DUMB

you dont want or need sti brakes

all ya NEED is the RIGHT pads...and rotors and fluid....unless you are gonna RACE......then maybe ya need more brakes...but then ya bought the wrong car in the first place, really
Dont really need to take also now Jesus into this discussion, is maybe not technical enough for him.
But Ok, understood your comment, and would be good if you maybe could advise what type of pads, rotors and fluid would fit, then you would help some dumb people a lot.
And no, I dont wanna race, just have propper fun with my wrx as allmost all people here.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:36 PM   #18
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Start with new fluid (Motul RBF600 is pretty popular) and some good race pads that you can swap in at the track. Something like a Hawk DTC-60 or Ferodo DS3000 would work good. That costs a lot less than going to bigger brakes and to be honest I would bypass the STi brembos at that point and go with something like a stoptech kit for the front.
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