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Old 12-17-2012, 02:27 PM   #1
GDB FAN
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Default 2013 Lincoln MKZ, just how important are tires?

Quote:
Lincoln Tries To Fool Media With Supercar Tires

Travis Okulski

Lincoln, wait, whoops, The Lincoln Motor Company (excuse me!), has a lot riding on the 2013 MKZ. It's the first car in a product onslaught that will either make Lincoln succeed or go down in flames.

They need this car to do well. So well that it seems they'll resort to obvious trickery to get there.

Edmunds recently tested a 2013 MKZ, and found that their test car had Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires. These are tires that typically come on cars like the BMW M6 and Ferrari 599 GTO. FYI: Those are big deal, ultra high performance cars.

That resulted in a 69.2 MPH run through their slalom test. A Porsche 911 is just one mile per hour faster, and a BMW M5 is slower. Yeah. Tires are important

This exact car has been making the rounds amongst journalists. Earlier this month, Autoblog tested the same car and noted that the handling performance had a lot to do with the low profile, ultra high performance tires (although they didn't note they weren't a regular option).

When confronted, Lincoln admitted to Edmunds that the tires were mounted specifically for the test cars and might not even be available unless the dealer has inventory of the tires. We just built an MKZ online, and high performance summer tires are not listed as an option. That's not saying they won't be a dealer installed option, but it would be an option that very, very few customers would tick off on the options list.

Basically, what it seems like is that Lincoln is pulling a Ferrari with some test cars to amp up the excitement for their new sedan. If you're not cheating, you're not trying says the old NASCAR adage, so it's clear Lincoln is trying.
http://jalopnik.com/5969022/lincoln-...uper-car-tires

Awesome.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:32 PM   #2
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I do rather like what I've seen of the Michelin Pilot Super Sports tires.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:49 PM   #3
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That front end just doesn't do it for me, but I love my PSS quite a bit.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:51 PM   #4
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I just put some Michelin Super Sports on my BRZ, feels like different car now,
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:58 PM   #5
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I find it hard to believe (if not stretching the truth?) that the MKZ is faster than the M5 and one second slower from a 911. All from a tire change?
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB FAN View Post
I find it hard to believe (if not stretching the truth?) that the MKZ is faster than the M5 and one second slower from a 911. All from a tire change?
They do sound impressive: http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...t/viewall.html

On the other hand, note that Michelin flew the writers to Dubai and had them do hot laps in Porsches and Audis. Everyone has their price, and I suspect that this royal treatment is above most peoples' threshold for being bought.

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Old 12-31-2012, 01:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
They do sound impressive: http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...t/viewall.html

On the other hand, note that Michelin flew the writers to Dubai and had them do hot laps in Porsches and Audis. Everyone has their price, and I suspect that this royal treatment is above most peoples' threshold for being bought.

That article is bloody awful. It's like MT put their own byline on a Michelin press release. You may not be able to buy positive press in MT, but you can apparently rent it cheap!

"Journalism" at it's best
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB FAN View Post
I find it hard to believe (if not stretching the truth?) that the MKZ is faster than the M5 and one second slower from a 911. All from a tire change?
Yes, my friend, but since scruples are not high here,

the MKZ had Michelin PSS, and the other cars had Primewell Roadhandlers on them
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB FAN View Post
I find it hard to believe (if not stretching the truth?) that the MKZ is faster than the M5 and one second slower from a 911. All from a tire change?
You would be surprised. Nothign to say a somewhat flaccid suspension can't give big grip.

It will roll a ton, and feel like ****, but there's no reason it can't snake it's was through a decent slalom, or hang on to a skidpad...
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:57 PM   #10
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Way to rig the test guys!
nothing like selling the perception of performance.

I want Chevy to sell the new Spark with R comps and see what happens.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:21 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
nothing like selling the perception of performance.
Not sure that's fair. It's not perception, it was actual performance.


You guys all bitched when they tested the WRX on all-seasons all the time...
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
Not sure that's fair. It's not perception, it was actual performance.


You guys all bitched when they tested the WRX on all-seasons all the time...
Very true, everyone pulls the "if the WRX had this tire... it would beat..."

Like they say, if your not cheating, your not trying hard enough. Lincoln got caught, but others haven't. Other manufacturers probably put better tune, lighter suspension... etc. never know until they get caught.
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:10 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by 4wdwrx View Post
Very true, everyone pulls the "if the WRX had this tire... it would beat..."

Like they say, if your not cheating, your not trying hard enough. Lincoln got caught, but others haven't. Other manufacturers probably put better tune, lighter suspension... etc. never know until they get caught.
I think I'd look at the situation differently if they found different suspension components, or a tune. Something that wouldn't be listed on a test sheet, and something not available to the public.

But tires, so long as their not scratching off the sidewall labels for the tests?

Meh, I can't exactly say I'm against it.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:36 PM   #14
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Should have gone with PS2's.
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:07 AM   #15
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yeah, those tires were probably reduced to piles of smoldering rubber after a couple of slalom runs.

video clip please for a good chuckle
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Old 12-29-2012, 01:35 PM   #16
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They could start by designing their own cars rather than taking a Ford and badge engineering it. They didn't learn from history - that's what killed Mercury and few of the GM satellites too.
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:07 AM   #17
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I'm actually kind of happy to see Lincoln at least trying.

Even if it's probably just Ford.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:06 AM   #18
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I am actually hoping for GREAT things form Ford/Lincoln. I heard Ford invested 2 billion in Lincoln to revamp it. I am looking forward to seeing what that kind of commitment to producing the best of the best ford can make will produce.


REX8 that is not really the same thing. It is perfectly okay to write about the performance of a car with ****ty OEM tires if they are sold with the same kind of tires. No fraud there,
but to market a car based on performance figures that the car you buy can NEVER achieve as purchased is fraudulent. Now if they clearly state it had high performance tires that are NOT available from the dealer when new, then all is well. But it does not appear that was the case.
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:55 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I am actually hoping for GREAT things form Ford/Lincoln. I heard Ford invested 2 billion in Lincoln to revamp it. I am looking forward to seeing what that kind of commitment to producing the best of the best ford can make will produce.


REX8 that is not really the same thing. It is perfectly okay to write about the performance of a car with ****ty OEM tires if they are sold with the same kind of tires. No fraud there,
but to market a car based on performance figures that the car you buy can NEVER achieve as purchased is fraudulent. Now if they clearly state it had high performance tires that are NOT available from the dealer when new, then all is well. But it does not appear that was the case.
Did they (Lincoln) write or market anything citing those figures in the first place? Not that I saw. So not sure what fraud you're claiming.

And even if they did, it would be perfectly fine, so long as they noted the tires.

So long as the tests publish the tires on the car (which they normally do), I don't see anything morally wrong with it either.

As REX8 says, everyone wants cars tested on equal tires. That would involve a tire change too. So long as the tester lists the tires on the car, I don't see what the big deal is really.

As far as "not being available", I assure you...any deal will order whatever tires you want and toss them on the car for you (at a price), with their warranty intact. So don't act like a consumer couldn't leave the dealer with the identical car. They absolutely could.

There's VERY little difference between checking a box on a factory order sheet, and generically ordering the tires through the dealer and having them installed before pickup. Practically speaking, there is no difference.
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:57 PM   #20
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Imagine uproar if the BRZ was on cheater tires but then delivered with 'prius' tires?

Thats what Lincoln is doing. Shooting themselves in their own foot.
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:06 PM   #21
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I suppose it is a positive statement about the Lincoln chassis that it was able to pull such impressive numbers, even when accounting for the choice of tires. (After all, the Fusion has a pretty good chassis.) But I think they overdid it by going with such extreme performance tires. If they had gone with something a bit more reasonable and produced results that did not beat the M5 but still came very close, then I think it would've worked far better as an advertisement.
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:17 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Imagine uproar if the BRZ was on cheater tires but then delivered with 'prius' tires?

Thats what Lincoln is doing. Shooting themselves in their own foot.
Again, I just don't see it. Subaru guys ALWAYS bitched that the WRX should have been tested on better tires.

Print what tires were on the car during the test, that way no one is uninformed. If a BRZ owner wants them, the dealer can order and install anything for the owner prior to pickup.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:48 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
Print what tires were on the car during the test, that way no one is uninformed. If a BRZ owner wants them, the dealer can order and install anything for the owner prior to pickup.
But what if Edmunds didn't inspect the tires as closely as they did? Then there would have been an Edmunds article praising the MKZ's unexpected performance that put its handling up there with some big names while the spec sheet would list the OEM tires, which would have made it seem like that was the kind of handling you'd expect from an off-the-showroom-floor MKZ, which is probably what Lincoln was hoping for. They admitted to doing it to all MKZs bound for West Coast publications, yet we haven't read a lot of reviews pointing out the tires. Perhaps others weren't as observational.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:35 AM   #24
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Print what tires were on the car during the test, that way no one is uninformed. If a BRZ owner wants them, the dealer can order and install anything for the owner prior to pickup.
Even if they list which tires were used, how is a customer supposed to know that this is not what it comes with from the factory? If you look up the specs on Lincolns website, the tires aren't mentioned anywhere:

http://www.lincoln.com/cars/mkz/spec...ions/view-all/

Basically, magazines would have to add a paragraph explaining that the performance figures are meaningless because the car has been modified.
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:01 AM   #25
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^^^

Lincoln should of course publish the OE tire specs somewhere...that being said...

With all the automakers that allegedly send "ringers" into the test fleet (the first WRXs cracking off 97 MPH trap speeds, for example), I just don't find tires to be that big of a deal.

It's not a hidden performance adder. It's written on the car, in plain view.

I understand the issues everyone has...but I don't know...something about this isn't such a big deal to me.





***Again, I see very little difference between this, and cars that have a "factory option" of PSCs, or other high(er) performance tires.

Come on, in reality, what is the difference between a factory-stamped "dealer-installed option", and dealer-installed aftermarket tires?

That one is a check box on a form with a Ford logo, and the other is made on a form with the Dealer logo?

So long as the public is informed, I see no issue.
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