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Old 02-05-2013, 07:37 PM   #1
RallySoob
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Default Bought new motor +upgrades ..Im scurred.. need advice

Hey guys'n'gals... I got a 06' STi with just over 100K miles.

I bought it used with 70K miles, it came with cold air intake as it was originally a california car. Long story short I hit water, got a lot in the motor...had the motor drained and it ran perfect for 6,000 miles or so and then the crank bearings went out one day...making it knock of course. No loss in performance tho.

I took it to my trusted mechanic and they gave me options to fix it. I decided to get a new long block from Subaru. I have read that subaru should have put forged pistons in the STi which is why they have ring land failures so I got JE Forged pistons that are supposedly same compression as stock and what not. Also I got ARP head studs in an effort to combat a future head gasket failure. Since the turbo had 100K miles on it I thought it be smart to get a new one and was told about the 20G so its on the way too. Lastly I had a dent in the oil pan before so they found me a killer bee oil pan that holds more oil.

Oh ya, I told them my goal was to run stage 2 so they got me an invidia catted down pipe. Before the motor popped, I had bought the Cobb Access Port Tuner, Cobb SF intake with air box, and the car already had a borla twin tip CBE which I like a lot. It has group N trans/motor mounts too. some other mods here and there

Is there any other parts, or safe guards that I am missing? My budget has already been breached but I don't want to take any risks. After they install the motor with these upgrades it will be driven about 60miles to cobb surge line or PRE racing for a dyne tune... I was told they can send a limp mode map to get me there. Or should I play it safe and tow it?

FYI my goal is a low maintenance, stage 2 setup with reliability being first and foremost. I absolutely do not want to make any sacrifices for power. I was satisfied with bone stock power before...matter of fact I never been in an STi with anything more than standard lil mods like I had. Should I be excited about the pistons/turbo combo or will it be similar to stock feel? what about an intercooler or boost solenoid, are those 2 things required for what I am trying to do? Bigger Injectors? Sorry if I sound like a pita but I am...lol Ive never really done much to these cars, always just drove the heck out of them. Call me cole trickle in need of Harry Haas




40 horsepower garrett sticker^


Last edited by RallySoob; 02-05-2013 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:54 PM   #2
RallySoob
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also, is the aftermarket post maf tube for looks or does it do anything really? Im good with a stock one right
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:05 PM   #3
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To run the 20g you will need minimum injectors, fuel pump and a protune.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:22 PM   #4
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Define "new long block." Did this come with heads?

ARP head studs are overkill at your levels, or the levels you are wanting.

20G will need injectors, fuel pump, and protune for sure along with a better intercooler and splitter.

Modding any car will reduce reliability. Adding aftermarket parts do not mean longevity of a motor. Cobb or PFE should send you a limp map to get you to their facility.

Killer Bee oil pan is good, but overkill in my opinion. Is this shop just finding you parts and selling you them or are they working with you and with what you want?
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:27 PM   #5
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Define "new long block." Did this come with heads?
By definition it does. Otherwise it's a shortblock.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:41 PM   #6
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Obviously by definition, but it's often a term that gets people confused, hence why I like to clarify. Honestly there would be no need to a new long block if only the short block had an issue. Bearings going out would not need there to be new heads. I have a feeling this shop the op is using is taking him for some cash.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:56 PM   #7
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I would definitely buy a fuel pump and injectors ASAP. Walbro makes great pumps and injectors. Get the car tuned after all that is put on.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:03 PM   #8
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Should be fine if cobb is going to send a limp mode map just dont smash it lol...
They did it for me when i lived in salem ps i now live 1 mile from the cobb you are going to go to they are great
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:10 PM   #9
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I would go with a aftermarket top mount intercooler and a grim speed ebcs, as well as injectors and maybe even a fuel pump and call it good. Just have them do a break in tune, drive it nice a few thousand miles, then go back for a tune to maximize your parts.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:27 AM   #10
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REPLACE THE OIL COOLER. Absolute must if you had spun bearings. Nearly impossible to completely flush all the bearing debris out of the old one...
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:07 AM   #11
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REPLACE THE OIL COOLER. Absolute must if you had spun bearings. Nearly impossible to completely flush all the bearing debris out of the old one...
Sorry if I wasn't clear, I don't know the lingo.

How much are those? Will stock one work? If not, can you name a good one

That long block from subaru was 7200, its supposedly a fresh motor...thats all I know. Has bottom and top end. Then I had the shop doing the install get me a new turbo to be safe (at their advice actually), a new oil pan because my old one was dented and also I mentioned forged pistons. They recommended the 20G, the ARP head studs, the bigger oil pan, JE Brand pistons and an Invidia catted down pipe. I told them I wanted an upgraded turbo only if it was close to stock size but of better quality. I told him I'm not looking for horsepower but instead to keep the engine low maintenance. He said the 20G cost same as replacement stock turbo so that is why I am considering it

But you guys are telling me I need fuel pump, injectors and a better intercooler when they said its not necessary. I'm getting nervous. I see him running up my tab trying to get this 20G to work; unintentionally because he may not know himself what parts to put together for this build. Im going to call them in the morning about it.

Can you guys tell me a turbo that I should be looking at with stock injectors and intercooler? Is the stock turbo the only one? I don't want to risk ring land failure or head gasket leaking in the future so I figure ARP studs and forged pistons are good idea still right? I thought all turbo cars had forged pistons from factory actually. I can't imagine ARP studs, forged pistons and the better oil pan making the car less reliable than stock...would it?

He said he was going to add a grim speed 3 port boost solenoid... is that the ebc you are talking about? same part?

I appreciate the help guys. This is nerve racking. Im obviously a 'scooby specialist' by seniority ...or default..lol

Last edited by RallySoob; 02-06-2013 at 02:20 AM.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:54 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by RallySoob View Post
Sorry if I wasn't clear, I don't know the lingo.

How much are those? Will stock one work? If not, can you name a good one

That long block from subaru was 7200, its supposedly a fresh motor...thats all I know. Has bottom and top end. Then I had the shop doing the install get me a new turbo to be safe (at their advice actually), a new oil pan because my old one was dented and also I mentioned forged pistons. They recommended the 20G, the ARP head studs, the bigger oil pan, JE Brand pistons and an Invidia catted down pipe. I told them I wanted an upgraded turbo only if it was close to stock size but of better quality. I told him I'm not looking for horsepower but instead to keep the engine low maintenance. He said the 20G cost same as replacement stock turbo so that is why I am considering it

But you guys are telling me I need fuel pump, injectors and a better intercooler when they said its not necessary. I'm getting nervous. I see him running up my tab trying to get this 20G to work; unintentionally because he may not know himself what parts to put together for this build. Im going to call them in the morning about it.

Can you guys tell me a turbo that I should be looking at with stock injectors and intercooler? Is the stock turbo the only one? I don't want to risk ring land failure or head gasket leaking in the future so I figure ARP studs and forged pistons are good idea still right? I thought all turbo cars had forged pistons from factory actually. I can't imagine ARP studs, forged pistons and the better oil pan making the car less reliable than stock...would it?

He said he was going to add a grim speed 3 port boost solenoid... is that the ebc you are talking about? same part?

I appreciate the help guys. This is nerve racking. Im obviously a 'scooby specialist' by seniority ...or default..lol
You're being taken. I hope you haven't paid for anything. You do not need a long block for what you had unless the motor exploded and the heads aren't useable at all. You're paying 7200 bucks for a new motor for them to take apart and add more crap. You could have gotten a brand new short block, added forged pistons and even forged rods for 2700 and reused the entire top half of the motor. ARP studs are overkill just like the oil pan. Killer B pan is great, but for a daily way overkill. Just because your old one was "dented" means nothing, you could have gotten a replacement cheap.

What shop is this exactly? Telling you a 20G is close to stock is dumb. Sure price it may be, but characteristics no way. And telling you that you do not need injectors or a pump is an out right lie.

With forged pistons and a good tune you don't need to worry about "ring land failures" or head gasket issues.

An upgraded intercooler is a MUST with 99% of aftermarket turbos.

If you want to save money, call this shop and end business with them promptly because you're being hung out to dry by a crappy mechanic wanting to do his own big money build.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:42 AM   #13
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if you want a stock like turbo spool do NOT get a 20g turbo, go with hta68 or 18g sized turbo. You will have to upgrade injectors and pump if you want to get decent performance from aftermarket turbo (i would recommend 750-850cc), those turbos will do ok with sti intercooler. ARP studs are not necessary at your power levels. oil pan is overkill unless you track your car weekly. if you have not purchased block yet, call PRE they have one with forged internals instock which has been balanced already for a lot less money. it sounds like the shop is trying to sell you bunch of unnecessary stuff.
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:44 AM   #14
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It does sound like that.. Its because he has an STi and did some mods to it and has an idea for my car thats not inline with my wants and needs. He keeps bringing up 500hp this and 700hp that like I want to discuss those possibilities. I def need to pull him back from fantasy land cuz I'm not feeling all this.

The 18G is also a blouche but smaller right? Im fine getting injectors to run a turbo but I need research things some more

Is that balanced block at PRE a long block or short? I believe they already ordered the motor that was 7 grand. I definitely need to call them Im starting to trip now. I knew he was going to try and put a big turbo on my car

How big is a 20G in comparison to stock...? much bigger?
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:22 PM   #15
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It does sound like that.. Its because he has an STi and did some mods to it and has an idea for my car thats not inline with my wants and needs. He keeps bringing up 500hp this and 700hp that like I want to discuss those possibilities. I def need to pull him back from fantasy land cuz I'm not feeling all this.

The 18G is also a blouche but smaller right? Im fine getting injectors to run a turbo but I need research things some more

Is that balanced block at PRE a long block or short? I believe they already ordered the motor that was 7 grand. I definitely need to call them Im starting to trip now. I knew he was going to try and put a big turbo on my car

How big is a 20G in comparison to stock...? much bigger?
I think 20g turbo is going overboard if you want something stock size on your sti. With that turbo i would upgrade the injectors & fuel pump (fuel pumps cheap) so that u can use the turbo to its full potential. At that power level, i would keep your stock tmic as well.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:39 AM   #16
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A 20g will make way more power then an sti turbo just get a stock turbo if you don't want extra power this is your car so do not let him push you into stuff you don't want and with a 20g yes you will need new fuel injectors and a new fuel pump and i would say a better top mount also.....

When he start talking 500/700 hp i would be questioning him that takes alot more then just forged pistons and arp headstuds
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:17 AM   #17
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Your shop sucks. A 20G close to stock? That's one of the funniest things...
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:14 AM   #18
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Yes a grim speed boost control solenoid is a ebcs. That's what I was talking about. The 20g, like everyone said, is not lose to stock. And yes like said before it sounds like they are hanging you out to dry. Call a new shop. No need to buy a factory Subaru long block for what your trying to do.
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:39 PM   #19
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Its just one guy tryin push me go too big. I called them today and had them order 18G X or whatever it is with 8mm port or whatever

They gave me option to rebuild for way cheaper but i personally want a brand new motor so it was my decision to get the brand new long block.

I also got walbro. So i dont have injectors or oversized intercooler but i can get them later. It should run goid with 18G and protune right?

Dont get hung up on what im paying, i just want to get the right parts for cobb to do a tune for me
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:52 PM   #20
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ARP studs and killer bee oil pan is never a bad idea.. I cant believe some of you say its bad thing. Imo no such thing as overkill when your adding protection. STi motors eat up oil and become starved easily so how would an extra quart be a bad thing?

Dont get me wrong gere fellas, im not inquiring how to max out my turbo with a build but instead asking if the car will run reliably at low boost, safe tune combined with mentioned parts. I did get walbro 255 and pondering a oversized top mount plus like 850cc injectors. But it should run on stock tmic and injectors with 18G on 16psi max tune i would think
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:55 PM   #21
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Don't forget the Killer B Oil pickup!!!
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:31 PM   #22
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Yes sir, i got that pickup already.

How much are oem oil coolers vs a better aftermarket one? Not sure which model to get or what.

Also, do you guys agree i can run 18G on stock injectors? Thats feasible right... Because I dont want spend that extra 500$ right now on injectors or another 8-900 on TMIC. I will do it in like 4-6months and get a new protune if need be unless im running a significant risk with oem stuff, in that case i guess i have to do it now.

I already feel better since they switched it to 18G build tho. Cobb actually said i should run vf39 but im not sure i talked to their tuner..was some younger guy..& not sure he was paying attention when i mentioned all the mods I already have

Whatabout external wastegate.. Is that necesary? Does 18G make that god awful fluttering sound the 20G makes when spooling?
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:34 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RallySoob View Post
My budget has already been breached but I don't want to take any risks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RallySoob View Post
Dont get hung up on what im paying, i just want to get the right parts for cobb to do a tune for me
Quote:
Originally Posted by RallySoob View Post
Cobb actually said i should run vf39 but im not sure i talked to their tuner..was some younger guy..& not sure he was paying attention when i mentioned all the mods I already have
if you're so concerned about getting the right parts for cobb to tune it, why the eff word are you not talking in great detail with their tuners about your required parts list, BEFORE buying everything? seems to me, you're going about this ass backwards, shooting first and asking questions later.

you're "not sure" you were talking to their tuner!? i'd be DAMN sure i was talking with the appropriate person, before buying a bunch of crap your macho mechanic is trying to push on you.

you're also asking for advice here, receiving lots of great suggestions, and yet still are hung up on your bad and misinformed ideas. i hate to be on the "did you even search!?" train, but a brief search would reap lots of threads with folks upgrading their fuel pump and injectors at stage 2, even with stock turbos and intercoolers.

you're on a breached budget, and you want to skimp on injectors, yet "just wanted a new engine", when your current one just needed reworked or a short block at most... you could've kept your existing short block, stroked it, got new beefcake internals, and perhaps even cams, p&p, tgv deletes, and still come out spending less than a brand new long block. you'll "just want another new engine" when you're maxing out your IDC, running lean, and really messing things up.

KEEP IT AWESOME!!!1
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:35 PM   #24
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Slow down. This is why you should research before buying and committing.

Can you run an 18g on stock injectors? Yes, but not for very long and not make any decent power out of it. Stock intercooler? No.

While it's fine that you are over paying (in my opinion) you could have saved much more money, gotten a new short block, still gotten forged pistons, added forged rods, and pay 3-4K less. Then you wouldn't be worrying about paying for injectors and a TMIC right now.

Cobb was right, you could have stuck with the VF39 since all you did was spin a bearing. You said your goal was just Stage 2, but now here you are in a funky motor build with an 18 XG something or ever.

No, you do not need an external waste gate. If you want one, you will need injectors.

Why can't the "young sounding guy" be right? Sounds like he was the one pointing you in the right direction and this shop saw you walk in and got you for all the money they could.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:01 PM   #25
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Agreed with both the two above posts. Slow down and do it right, while at the same time still staying WELL within budget by skipping the complete OEM motor.
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